Iskcon Rehash Movement dies ki jai!, Good Riddance to a Bad Thing

[bhaktachris]

That is why we believe in rejecting both Iskcon and Iskcon Rehash Movement, both neglect the Mission of Srila Prabhupada. His Mission is Simple Living/ High Thinking. Live at home, worship Lord Chaitanya, Chant Hare Krishna, offer your food to Him, and Protect Children, Woman and Cows!

[suchandra]

 

That is why we believe in rejecting both Iskcon and Iskcon Rehash Movement, both neglect the Mission of Srila Prabhupada. His Mission is Simple Living/ High Thinking. Live at home, worship Lord Chaitanya, Chant Hare Krishna, offer your food to Him, and Protect Children, Woman and Cows!

 

Just see what Madhai das says in interview below, Prabhupada changed his live!

 

http://mayapurkatha.blogspot.com/2007/02/story-of-madhai-prabhu.html

Mayapur Katha das: Hare Krishna. Thank you for giving your interview. Please introduce yourself.

Madhai Das: My name is Madhai Das. I’m 66 years old. I am from Krsnapur, West Bengal. I was initiated by H.H. Jayapataka Swami in 1978.

Mayapur Katha das: Tell about your life before joining and about the spirituality you were practicing before.

Madhai Das: In my house when I was a child they were doing Hare Krishna bhajan, but also worship of Kali and Ganesh. They were doing a big kitchri. When I went to school, I wanted to separate from this tradition and try to find my own way.

I joined Gaudiya Math, Krsna Math, Aravinda Mission and Bharat Sevasram Sanga, a impersonalist sannyasi ashram. I was practicing astanga-yoga, celibacy and meditation on omkara, to purify myself and become God. We were doing philanthropic activities, like distribution of food and medicine to the villages, but my mind was not satisfied. I was inclined to do kirtan, but because of association I had to follow impersonalism. I was like a yogi, with a big beard and big hair, with a rudraksa necklace, many rudraksas on my arms, and the marking of tilak on my forehead.

Then I saw some foreign devotees in Amedhabad, Gujarat, chanting here and there, and I was very surprised. “Why have they rejected their wealth to preach Sanatana Dharma? I could not do that.”

I met Srila Prabhupada in Bombay at a pandal program, and I spoke with him for few minutes, but I don’t remember.

After we came back to Amedhabad, a western mataji from America used to come to our ashram because our ashram and the ISKCON ashram were on the same road, side by side. She was coming every day to give a garland to our Krishna Deity and some prasadam to me. I was joining time to time at the ISKCON Temple, morning and evening, and I had a long talk with the ISKCON ashram President Yasomatinandana Prabhu.

In 1977, 15th, 16th, and 17th of January we attended the Kumba Mela for food distribution, and there was an ISKCON camp in Gangadwip, where I had darsan of Srila Prabhupada. In a very angry mood I asked many questions to Srila Prabhupada. Srila Prabhupada used to say, “I am servant of God” and I said “I’m God”. H.H. Bhakti Caru Swami, Bhavananda Prabhu and Rameswara (his secretary) were there when the discussion was going on, and Srila Prabhupada convinced me in a very humble way, that I should take initiation from the Vaishnava side. Srila Prabhupada said, “Which kind of God are you? You are going to get old, be sick and die.” Once Srila Prabhupada asked me to take some prasadam and I agreed. Somebody gave him an apple and Srila Prabhupada said, “This is prasadam, just take it”, and again some argument came out. I said, “You are like another Sai Baba! You raise your hand and somebody gives you a fruit prasadam.” Srila Prabhupada said, “I’m not producing this prasadam. Somebody was keeping it, then gave it to me and I’m giving it to you.” I said, “Why is this apple not open? How has Krsna taken it and it become prasadam?” Srila Prabhupada was trying very seriously to look in my eyes to understand what I was saying. Then I asked for a knife and Bhavananda became very angry with me, but Srila Prabhupada said, “Give him a knife.” Bhavananda Prabhu asked, “Why do you need a knife?”

Srila Prabhupada said, “I know what he would like to do--he is a typical Bengali brahmana, karma kandi.”

Bhavananda Prabhu gave me the knife, but they were in anxiety. I peeled the apple and cut it into 16 parts. I gave one piece to Srila Prabhupada and I said “Give me half,” and Srila Prabhupada was laughing. I gave to him all 16 parts keeping half. At the 15th piece he told me “Start to take them, or you will loose them all.” But when I gave him the last piece, all the devotees jumped on the plate and all the maha-prasadam scattered here and there. Srila Prabhupada took one piece and put it directly in my mouth and said, “I told you to take it before, but this is enough for you. Now you’ve had Krsna prasadam, so you have to do something for Krsna.” Hearing his voice, a tremendous change happened in my mind--I left my ashram and my family. He asked me to chant the Hare Krsna Mantra and he said after associating with devotees, he would give me initiation and after a few months, the second initiation, and at the end of 1977, he would give me sannyassa because, he said, I was already in the sannyassa order. He told me that I have to follow the regulative principles, (that I had been already following for several years.) He gave me a mala, a Bhagavad Gita signed by him and a letter for Mayapur management. I asked him some questions. I didn’t cut my big beard and hair and I didn’t change my sannyassi dhoti. I said “Before taking initiation, I also want to test you” (I was such a rascal that you cannot imagine!) I put some conditions. “For one year wherever you go, I’ll be with you,” and several other conditions. Srila Prabhupada said “If you put conditions you’ll be cheated. You cannot cheat Krsna--He is the biggest cheater. Do you have any more questions?” I said, “no.” Then Srila Prabhupada said, “I said okay to all your conditions, now whatever I request you, you have to say okay.” In the letter he wrote that I have to stay in Mayapur from that day. I said, “No!” but Srila Prabhupada replied, “I was keeping silent to your conditions. Now you have to keep silent. This is etiquette. You asked to stay with me for one year, but you didn’t put the date--I’ll put the date--if Krsna recommends then you can stay with me.”

When Srila Prabhupada gave me prasadam, Rameswara asked if he had to put my name as a disciple in the diary, but I said, “No, I have to check.”

H.H. Satsvarupa Maharaja was writing in the Prayag chapter [of Srila Prabhupada Lilamrita] “How a Sanyassi Mayavadi Can Become a Devotee,” but in ‘78 there was a very big flood. All the photos and my documents were gone-- he couldn’t prove it and so he didn’t write it in his book. Afterwards, I took initiation from H.H. Jayapataka Swami, Srila Prabhupada’s representative, in ‘78. I was appointed as Gurukula teacher and after that, H.H. Jayapataka Swami sent me to Nepal to open a new school. After two years I became temple commander and sankirtan leader . ‘85-‘86 I was Temple president and I came to Allahabad. Srila Prabhupada had asked me if I could do something in Allahabad, and after a very hard struggle, I opened a centre which is existing now. I was there from 1990 to 2001, then I resigned and I came here to take sannyassa. H.H. Prabhavisnu Swami and H.H. Maha Visnu Swami helped me a lot and they recommended me for sannyass. In 2001, I became very sick and Mayapur devotees took very nice care of me. From that time I’m staying in Mayapur. My service is in the library, at the top floor of the brahmacari building, and I’m doing Bhakti Vaibhava course.

Mayapur Katha das: Do you have some stories that you’d like to share?

Madhai Das: 1) When I was in the Sevasrama, the Gaudiya Math Temple was attacked by Mohammedans and the Swami of Sevasrama ordered us to go and protect the temple. All the brahmacari went there, the devotees left, and the Muslims cut their sikhas [of the devotees who remained] and threw the Deities out! Some people died. About this, I put some questions to Srila Prabhupada. I said, “Why do the devotees, when there is need for action and to protect the Temple, leave?” and he said, “Everything happens under Krishna’s sanction.”

2) In ’78, the rainy season flood flooded the area, and then came the news that some dacoits will come to Mayapur to attack the goshalla. During night time, we had no light, no boat, so we cut two banana trees, and we put them under our arms and swam to the goshalla to protect it. We didn’t have facilities at that time, but we were so enthusiastic to work for Krishna that we stayed there all night and came back next morning.

3)We went (H.H. Jayapataka Swami, myself and other devotees) to distribute flat rice and gur in a village and some boys were saying some ill words to the devotees. Blasphemy. But they couldn’t understand the meaning. When the boys came to me, I slapped them but H.H. Jayapataka Swami told me they were innocent boys, and that we have to tolerate them, and that they didn’t hurt me. From that day, I realized that my duty is to preach to ignorant people, and I don’t have to hurt them.

4) I was traveling with a sankirtan van in Sikkim and I went to a Buddhist temple in Mangpur. There they were killing cows and eating them. I gave a lecture and I preached not to kill the cows. The Buddhists became very angry with me and started to chase me. I was running and I arrived in the house of Kailash Sahlvalla. I entered into a room and his wife had just delivered a child a few minutes before. There was a lot of blood and clothes and I hid myself under the bed. I was afraid and I was praying to Krsna, “Krsna, I was preaching. This is my duty. I have to protect the cows that are so dear to You. Please help me!” The Buddhists came in the room, but the ladies didn’t speak and the husband took a gun and start to scream at them to go away and leave his wife peacefully with the child and fortunately they left.

After this, I went to the Defense Minister of the city. He brought me back to the temple and I gave again the lecture. The Defense Minister became a devotee that day, and also a Buddhist of that temple became a devotee.

5) When the Gurukula was in the boundary wall in the beginning, there was a big problem with the bathroom. The water was stuck and the bathroom was full of filthy water. I went to Navadvip and I collected a lot of money to repair the bathrooms, but the devotee in charge didn’t fix them. Srila Prabhupada came in my dream, and he was angry with me: “You cannot do it by yourself? Are you the teacher of these boys? You don’t want to serve? Wake up and do it by yourself.” So I did my best to follow Srila Prabhupada’s order and with great determination I opened the bathroom. I cleaned everything, I repaired and the bathrooms became very nice. I was completely wet with the filthy water, but I obeyed Srila Prabhupada’s order to me.

Mayapur Katha das: What attracted you the most that convinced you to join?

Madhai Das: I liked how they care for the devotees’ lives, and how they try to keep the devotees together, working cooperatively. In the math, they force you to do things but in ISKCON, they ask, “What are your skills, and what do you most like to do?” Srila Prabhupada used to say, “Whatever you are able to do, do this for Krishna.”

Mayapur Katha das: What’s keeping your faith and enthusiasm after so many years?

Madhai Das: The Deities and the chanting. The Deities inspire me with Their very charming faces. It seems that They want to say something when I look at Them. They want for us to chant offenselessly and always pray to Them. They have a very special feature in Mayapur, that as soon as you have some desire and ask Them, They arrange something to fulfill that desire. When you look at Them, your desires disappear.

Mayapur Katha das: Which is the biggest obstacle you have had in your spiritual life and how did you survive?

Madhai Das: I was Bhagavan! It took me a lot of time to understand Krishna is Bhagavan, that He is Paramesvara, the Controller of the controllers. I overcame it by the association of the devotees. They helped me to rectify that idea. Also, in the Bharat Sevasram ,they were trying to kidnap me and telling that alive or dead, my head should be there. I was very afraid of them, but Bhavananda Prabhu and Nitai Candra Prabhu helped me very much.

Mayapur Katha das: Do you have any special friend in Mayapur?

Madhai Das: Yes, H.H. Gauranga Prema Maharaja, even if he is younger, we are very nice friends. And Adwaita Acarya Prabhu. Their lives and advice always revive my consciousness, and I appreciate very much their personal dealings. Of course H.H. Jayapataka Maharaja is my main inspiration. He gives me the enthusiasm to work and work, and to put Krsna in the center.

[Guest guest]

says that control is now out of the hands of the TP. Does not the letter in fact still say that the only change will be the ritvic will now accept or not the recomendation, chant on beads/thread instead of Srila Prabhupada and give the devotee name. The TP will still send the recomendation in, just to the ritvic now, not Srila Prabhupada.

 

The letter does not take the person doing the recomendation out of local hands. TP/or(?) will still send it in.

 

Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das

[Guest guest]

 

But everyone DID accept them as the next successors, and these 11 claimed the letter authorized them to be successors even up till late 1980's.

 

In other words, the actual history is that they took this letter and told people it appointed them as guru successors, and enough people went along with it. They never used this letter to say they were appointed as ritviks.

 

So your argument that no one would have believed a forged letter that said these 11 are the next gurus is proven wrong. Even without such a forged letter they made that claim and 90% of the devotees believed it.

 

Further this letter is based on recorded conversations which anyone can listen to. The conversations said the exact same thing as the letter.

 

Prabhupada had already appointed these people as ISKCON leaders and GBCs. Why do you think he wouldn't appoint them as ritvik representative?

 

 

 

Hare Krsna

 

This is a great post. Of course Prabhupada choose the then current leadership to represent a ritvic system implimented by Him. An example had to be made of what this system would look like and they were the ones whom everyone followed.

 

The surprise is not whom Prabhupada choose but that ISKCON was so disfunctional as a congregation that they were both accepted as leaders, even after so much guidence to the contrary, and that the congregation let them go on to create the infamous history of ISKCON's failure to act in so many other venues. During and after Prabhupada's departure.

 

It is not just the leaders, they had everone as cheerleaders too that helpped perpetrate a sham. At least 95% are guilty.

 

Me? I never surrendered to any ISKCON authority no mater what temple I was in and I always preached DVD managment then(74) as I do now.

 

Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das

 

PS. Funny about that picture posted here. It is not representative of the IRM, nor of it's current members. Why post it? Good picture though.

[Guest guest]

Are you out there? Could you please respond to my/the last post here? Or have you now taken up the cause of this Ritvic order? If so? Well and good.

 

Thank you, Hare Krsna

 

Catrubahu das Bhakti-Raja

[bhaktachris]

 

Are you out there? Could you please respond to my/the last post here? Or have you now taken up the cause of this Ritvic order? If so? Well and good.

 

Thank you, Hare Krsna

 

Catrubahu das Bhakti-Raja

Hare Krishna Catrbahu das what ever Prabhu.

 

I have as my screen name "bhakta chris" but i too joined when you did, and too Prabhupada as my Soul's Guru when he was still quite visible. I like the screen name as it is, so that thugs of different institutionalized cults can not come after me so easy.

 

I am so vehemently against this Ritvik word and so called "authorized" letter written by your leader tamal because i joined and lived with 12 devotees all who lived and served Prabhupada very personally in 26 2nd ave. Temple, way before iskcon's and iskcon rehash's leader tamal joined. My adopted father was in Vrndavan when the whole take over took place, from May to November of 77. He had very much inside knowledge, and first hand talks with Prabhupada. So when the letter of tamal came, he just threw it in the trash, where it belonged. He continued to act as he did for years, serving Prabhupada as Prabhupada told him to do. He was one of the "senior man do" people, and did not stop doing when the letter came out.

 

He told me things that were very well covered up by tamal and co. Things like, Bhavanada was responsible for the attack that took place in Mayapura in 77........ He told me that i should never trust ANYTHING that had tamal's signature on it, or came from tamal, like the word ritvik.

 

So i just can not accept that letter. I do accept that Prabhupada is the Guru for Iskcon. I do accept that a Self Effulgent Acharya would appear after the Self Effulgent Acharya left, but only if there was some purity and not any factions to stop it. But this letter made the faction, so now we are without the next Self Effulgent Acharya.

 

But you know, i don't really care if you or others want to accept ritviks or living gurus, or kirtanananda as your leader or whatever. You live your life, and i will continue to serve Prabhupada as i have since the mid 70's too. You can call yourself a "Prabhupadanuga" too! I am so over trying to point out that your letter written by tamal is not "authorized", it is just a simple "Hit List" given so that we know who not to go to, who to avoid.

 

If you lack enough Simplicity to just accept Prabhupada without any middle man no matter what he is called, then go ahead, it is a world of free choice afterall. I certainly can not change that.

 

Prabhupada gave us a life to live, outside of the Bricks and Mortar that are now Iskcon's. He gave us the perfection of life in a human body. You stay home, live with your wife and kids, protect cows, grow your own food, live simple and have high thinking. Worship Lord Chaitanya Chant Hare Krishna. Pray to Prabhupada, offer him your foodstuffs. The end. No Ritvik no living guru, no kirtanananda's bhavananda's tamals's jayatirtaha's satshedupedya's no druggies, no homosex gurus, no jailbirds, crazy peoples etc.

 

And if you have done all that, if you have some time left over, go and try to stop the mass Defamation of the Great Acharya Srila Prabhupada, by pointing out that Prabhupada never appointed any of these guys to the post of anything that would mean that they were his representative in any way.

 

So what did you want me to respond to? The picture? That picture relates to all ritviks the same. A bunch of fools who think that 11 men were appointed to be Prabhupada's representative in the capasity of Ritvik or Living guru or Zonal Acharya.

 

Please do not ask me to respond any more to this thread, i will look in sometimes, and may even respond later, but i am tired of you all. I never want to hear the names or see the names or the faces on that hit list again. Prabhupada gave that hit list so that we could avoid them, not seek them out. Good bye till next time. "Bhakta" Chris (follower of Srila Prabhupada since 1976)

[Guest guest]

but somtimes thats not quite enough. There must be temperence of goodness thrown in for inteligence thought. The inteligence to not through babies out with bath water. You would say there was no baby.

 

I liked your letter, I ate up your passion like a candy cane. though you have peged me wrong.

 

That inteligence does not always work perfectly is the bane of Kuli yuga. 'Daddy' was not the only person in Prabhupada's room during that time besides the Tamal takover crew. There were a few insignificant servants that were not integral, nor part of Tamals plan. Flys on a wall so to speak. Witnesses.

 

I have spoken to two of them personally. In fact, I happen to know them both intimately. The first I heard from is not nearly as trusted to me as the second one. In fact I did not take what the first one said as very much proof untill I heard from the second one a similar story told from both their idividual experiences. This was the last little bit of evidences I needed to be convinced where so little information existed about any method of continuing ISKCON initiations. There is/should be no dought that this question was asked of Srila Prabhupada and he gave an answer. Though there is dispute, it can in no way be conscrewed that Prabhupada said there would be a self effulgent acarya appear. In fact this theme has never been said in relation to ISKCON by Srila Prabhupada. This is hog stool speculation. A motivated statement.

 

Now you say a self effulgent accary will apear. Where is Prabhupada saying that that is the way to carry on after he has gone? That was said by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Prabhupada to 'HIS' disciples. Our Prabhupada has not said to do like this. There is a tape recording of a conversation about initiations after His departure. Though the tape is suspected of tampering it is after the first time He says Ritvic yes!!! You dismiss passionately to much information as useless.

 

Whom Prabhupada named on that July 9 letter is indeed a hit list of sorts. A list that maya hit and owned completely. They were the worst of the lot that was sinister ISKCON and that was 99% of the devotees, most all useless. They were the ones that the congregation followed cent-per-cent by 77, not Prabhupada. And I dare to say your 'bob' too or how was he in that room?

 

Who else was Prabhupada going to name? Joe dish washer? Who would believe that Joe disher was qualified to be spiritual leader? The congregation was so stupid that they were already in Tamal and Co's pocket. The point of naming was to set a presidence as to whom should be Ritvic representative, the most advanced amoung you. Prabhupada knew full well the motivations of these bums. That is why the ritvic system, to save ISKCON from these animals that would and most certainly did, take ISKCON in the mud.

 

The ritvic system is perfect as instructed, execution of said instruction was bad from the congregation. Yes, the temple devotees were to stupid/weak, one and all, at that time/now to call a spade a spade. The movement was usurped by 70' or didn't bob tell that they locked Srila Prabhupada in a room in LA then???

 

And didn't 'daddy' bob take sannyasa by then? Thinking himself qualified to abandon his wife and kid? Then later became Guru? Oh, that was just to help keep things in line, an other member of the club, but this time with the supposed character of King Yudhisthira to tempor the first 11. Then bob later fell down from guru into illicit sex life with his female friend? If he wanted sex why not go back to his first wife and child? Truly, why should I trust him??? He's a messed up older brother still demanding respect, not commanding. I see no reason to trust him any more than Tamal. He was in the room of poison death as Tamals friend.

 

For another thing, the word 'ritvic' is in our books. Like a child you hate a word because of a distorted history you and bob helped to create by your combined malfeasance?

 

The July 9th letter just gives Tamal another headacke so much so Tamal had to then doctor up a conversation to make the understanding of what a ritvic was meant to be as something other than intended by Srila Prabhupada. This again is the benifit of an eye witness that you get first hand information, as you say bob gave you. Why would I think J9 is a fake? It didn't make any of these bums more than a servent to Srila Prabhupada, servent not guru. That you and bob did along with 5,000 other morons proposing to follow these queers further instead of shouting like I did from the roof tops to stop following these dacoits.

 

You mention 'middle man' you fell for this? Shame on you and bob for proposeing such a devient thing. No middle man needed. More deviant wrangling.

 

Hare Krsna son of 'bob'

 

Caturbahu das Bhakti-Raja

[Guest guest]

is another thing Bk Chris, son of bob.

 

Srila Prabhupada's ISKCON is not now nor has it ever been visible, yet. I have faith it will eventually emerge out of the ashes. The ritvic intruction was just at the end of a very long line of directives rejected ignorantly/arrogantly by the ISKCON congregation, then and now, inside and out.

 

ISKCON has to mean the movement of Srila Prabhupada, but evedent by the following of participents according to Guru's administration. Hasn't happened yet. All we see today is a hollow name, all empty inside and out. Almost no one as of yet, as I see, has it right. I have only met two, a new Bk and a 'bob'. I perpetually hoped for more and have looked on line for these possible like minded devotees for years.

 

The IRM is indeed a rehash movement, new boss same as the old boss. I was supportive for only a yr. I told them if they didn't vigorously preach the other 50% (DVD) of the Guru's movement then I was out. And out I went spitting at them for again being cheaters just like the rest. And Yaduraja calling me 'a movement of one', good thing I don't give heart and soul frivolously.

 

Because the IRM didn't change social understanding of ISKCON in the prospectus, they blupped like the rest. Still today 99% devotees are clueless as to 'what' ISKCON is. Nor how it is to be run, still following Tamals take-over retoric. All of you!

 

The group picture of the original IRG is mine, that I posted on another form(Bhaktaforms) and someone posted here with no knowedge of the complete understanding of what point is being made by the submision of it on that form in the topic it was taken from. You people are just to motivated!

 

I admited my 1 yr tenure in IRG and as proof of then intimate knowledge of the stated goals. They never expanded there initial purpose, I didn't stay supportive. 1 yr only! Other members in this picture also are no longer with IRM. My attempt at cooperation to help Srila Prabhupada was honest, the group wasn't, I left.

 

But I look damn good in the picture. LOL.

 

Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das Bhakti-Raja

[Guest guest]

Bkakti ... in the group picture, which one is you?

 

By the way, I think the ritviks are a bunch of <B></I>jokers<B></I> too. Certainly not because I differ in my views from them but because of how they completely lost their marbles. It's funny how they went from trying to purpotedly 'save' Srila Prabhupada's movement to just engaging all their energies in blaspheming devotees of the Lord. The ritviks followers were certainly exploited and made <B> <I>complete fools </B> M/I> by the exploitative IRM, in my opinion. I'm happy to hear that you quit that joke of a group called IRM .

 

 

is another thing Bk Chris, son of bob.

 

Srila Prabhupada's ISKCON is not now nor has it ever been visible, yet. I have faith it will eventually emerge out of the ashes. The ritvic intruction was just at the end of a very long line of directives rejected ignorantly/arrogantly by the ISKCON congregation, then and now, inside and out.

 

ISKCON has to mean the movement of Srila Prabhupada, but evedent by the following of participents according to Guru's administration. Hasn't happened yet. All we see today is a hollow name, all empty inside and out. Almost no one as of yet, as I see, has it right. I have only met two, a new Bk and a 'bob'. I perpetually hoped for more and have looked on line for these possible like minded devotees for years.

 

The IRM is indeed a rehash movement, new boss same as the old boss. I was supportive for only a yr. I told them if they didn't vigorously preach the other 50% (DVD) of the Guru's movement then I was out. And out I went spitting at them for again being cheaters just like the rest. And Yaduraja calling me 'a movement of one', good thing I don't give heart and soul frivolously.

 

Because the IRM didn't change social understanding of ISKCON in the prospectus, they blupped like the rest. Still today 99% devotees are clueless as to 'what' ISKCON is. Nor how it is to be run, still following Tamals take-over retoric. All of you!

 

The group picture of the original IRG is mine, that I posted on another form(Bhaktaforms) and someone posted here with no knowedge of the complete understanding of what point is being made by the submision of it on that form in the topic it was taken from. You people are just to motivated!

 

I admited my 1 yr tenure in IRG and as proof of then intimate knowledge of the stated goals. They never expanded there initial purpose, I didn't stay supportive. 1 yr only! Other members in this picture also are no longer with IRM. My attempt at cooperation to help Srila Prabhupada was honest, the group wasn't, I left.

 

But I look damn good in the picture. LOL.

 

Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das Bhakti-Raja

[Guest guest]

jokers now. The picture is from 1998 in Vrndavan at a very nice devotee's house down the street from Krsna/Balarama temple. I'm center, back ground between KK and Visvamrita.

 

I do not mind correction and/or a good clean vocal exchange on line or off. But you are right that IRM made a mockery of 'reform' That's because they were only using IRM as a vehicle to replace one debacle with another. With no ksatriyas you are doomed to have 'brahmans' run amuck as they did then, as they are now. Look at the GBC annual meetings. A laugh riot.

 

Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das Bhakti-Raja

[bhaktachris]

my adopted father, Prabhupada calls him "expertvery expert"

 

Room Conversation Hyderabad, August 20, 1976 Prabhupada: And this Paramananda, he is expert. He's very expert.

 

Vrndavana, October 6, 1977

Paramananda: We're always feeling your presence very strongly, Srila Prabhupada, simply by your teachings and your instructions. We're always meditating on your instructions.

Prabhupada: Thank you. That is the real presence. Physical presence is not important.

 

 

 

Room Conversation Vrndavana, October 6,1977: Prabhupada: Of course, if I die, there is nothing to be ruined. You are all participants. So organize this farm project, simple living. Human life is meant for God realization. Try to help them. This is my mission...

Paramananda: We're always feeling your presence very strongly, Srila Prabhupada, simply by your teachings and your instructions. We're always meditating on your instructions.

Prabhupada: Thank you. That is the real presence. Physical presence is not important.

 

Again, just see the result of the letter written by tamal. If there was no letter, how would thouse 11 be Zoned Out Acharyas, answer: they would not have!

 

"Judge a thing by it's result" That letter killed Prabhupada, and his movement, for those who accept it as bonafide. We on the other hand follow Paramananda's way, to see the teachings and instructions. Ofcourse only the teachings and instructions coming directly from Prabhupada, not from a snakeman. Prabhupada never dies, and when he does, then we will accept your ritviks. Therefore we Protect Cows for Prabhupada, and live on Farms chanting Hare Krishna. And reject all things coming from tamal.

 

 

Has Prabhupada passed away for you, that you think we need ritviks now? Or zoned out acharyas, or living gurus?

 

If he is still alive, then why are'nt you advocating the things he did, like Simple Living/High Thinking, Home Farms, Protecting Cows, Growing Food.

 

And when Prabhupada is "no longer with us" then and only then, will i accept your Ritviks.<!-- technorati tags -->

[Guest guest]

 

jokers now. The picture is from 1998 in Vrndavan at a very nice devotee's house down the street from Krsna/Balarama temple. I'm center, back ground between KK and Visvamrita.

 

I do not mind correction and/or a good clean vocal exchange on line or off. But you are right that IRM made a mockery of 'reform' That's because they were only using IRM as a vehicle to replace one debacle with another. With no ksatriyas you are doomed to have 'brahmans' run amuck as they did then, as they are now. Look at the GBC annual meetings. A laugh riot.

 

Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das Bhakti-Raja

 

Since Prabhupada showed us how it works and his movement started without any cash injection or similiar tricks but by the simple pure teachings of Lord Caitanya's Sankirtan mission, the questions arises, why IRM couldnt ignite such a Prabhupadanuga spirit which Hayagriva decribed in his book as "THE HARE KRISHNA EXPLOSION"?

[bhaktachris]

 

Since Prabhupada showed us how it works and his movement started without any cash injection or similiar tricks but by the simple pure teachings of Lord Caitanya's Sankirtan mission, the questions arises, why IRM couldnt ignite such a Prabhupadanuga spirit which Hayagriva decribed in his book as "THE HARE KRISHNA EXPLOSION"?

 

simple, because their "position paper" is something written and used to gain power by Iskcon's biggest rascals. If your "position paper" is something poisonous by dint of it being touched by the lips of a poisonous snake, then that is the result.

 

Prabhupada gave us the sweet fruit of Bhagavatam, and also the Life of Bhagavatam, and untill we all take that back up, there will be no explosion again.

 

 

 

COW PROTECTION

Srimad-Bhagavatam 3.2.29 Purport

With only these two things, cows and grain, humanity can solve its eating problem. Human society needs only sufficient grain and sufficient cows to solve its economic problems. All other things but these two are artificial necessities created by man to kill his valuable life at the human level and waste his time in things which are not needed. Lord Krsna, as the teacher of human society, personally showed by His acts that the mercantile community, or the vaisyas, should herd cows and bulls and thus give protection to the valuable animals. According to smrti regulation, the cow is the mother and the bull the father of the human being. The cow is the mother because just as one sucks the breast of one’s mother, human society takes cow’s milk. Similarly, the bull is the father of human society because the father earns for the children just as the bull tills the ground to produce food grains. Human society will kill its spirit of life by killing the father and the mother.

[Guest guest]

don't let the little things through you BK Chris. The use of 'bob' is only in absentia of a real 'name'. Everyone hides when on line and then tries for a big voice, like some that post 10,000 times with very little that is actually redeamable for ISKCON's speading of Krsna consciousness through-out the world. I find that duplicitous in general.

 

I do not, Caturbahu das Bhakti-Raja is my name. On my driver license, passport, SS card, bank accounts and so on and so fourth. Acronyms are for pussies. I am very large and willing to be in face if need to be. Stand toe to toe and speak mindfully. I live in Alachua and am readily avaible for person to person contact. Check for me at the Sunday feast, not that I support the temple, it is just a place for my daughter to visit with other devotee girls. But remember this is Florida, bad guys beware, we shoot first, ask questions later. Cowboys and Indians, ye ha. LOL

 

My small story of 'bob' is a true one, not made up. That you are talking about Paramananda das is now known and I would not refer to him any more as 'bob'.

 

I think you misunderstand how I see ritvic. This is just a part of the organizational aspects of ISKCON, it is an organization of vaisnavas. Just like the Gaudiya Maths were. I ardently agree that ISKCON was taken over by Tamal and Co. But way before Prabhupada's samadhi. The ISKCON that Tamal and Co have is not the ISKCON that is from Srila Prabhupada, as anyone can see there is no dynamic anymore, Srila Prabhupada has left the building. LOL It is like the Mother Sita in the house of Ravana was not the 'real' Mother Sita, but an illusional representative switched by Lord Agni, God of fire. Ravana could never touch the 'real' Sita, just like no one that does not include all the guidence that came for ISKCON can have Srila Prabhupada's dynamic influence, like the father that holds up the child from behind.

 

ISKCON still lives in the instructions of Srila Prabhupada for the members to follow. Ritvic is only a part, not the all in all, nor the end al savor, it is only for ceremonial formalities. I do not think that this ritvic is giving bhakti lata bija, No! That is Srila Prabhupada. Person to person from the Guru to you!!!!!!!!And there is no need for a buffer of any kind. Ritvic function is ceremonial in a general way and he may function as shiksha for those in close prxsimity. Or who are incline to him, or not, no problem. No problem, but he is not giver of diksa, as in bhakti-lata-bija. Only a ceremonial figurehead, sercretary to chant on beads and so on... Is how I see this ritvic any clearer?

 

I love DVD(Daivi-Varnasrama-Dharma) that is to say the divisions of 4 asramas and 4 varnas. I was very disapointed when I came to the movement of my spiritual master and it was not even spoke about in the Miami temple. All cheaters even in 74, movement was taken by dacoits then, by 74!

 

You talk about a farming project your connected with. Do you have an idea of 4 varnas on this farm? Or just three? mostly I have only seen that the devotees cannot actually understand that DVD is not just to be in farms either. There was also Dwarka and Mathura, cities that also functioned by 4 varnas and asramas. DVD is division/deligation of social management and personal living arrangment, not just milking cows. As we all know is vaishya. This management is the order of Guru also! and I might say the corner stone of organization as is said in all of our books. Does your siksa guru speak like this?

 

I go on line looking for like minded devotees that would at least, through preaching, imbide this DVD cosmology. Are you one? This DVD Prabhupada has said is 50% of the movement, half of what Prabhupada set out to do. Half of what this ISKCON 'is'. We should be representing to the world fully as Prabhupada said and not just a 2 or 3 varna farm situation, as is generally shown as representing DVD.

 

And what about the city temples? Prabhupada gave the instruction to be followed in "all our centers", Prabhupada is stupid and can't understand that most of the centers were in the cities??????????????? Just more cheating from both the congregation and the phony leadership. For me from day one I knew they were all cheaters. You what to talk spiritual frustration? You don't know the meaning of the word.

 

Any moron can read any and all of our books and see that varnasrama-dharma is the devotees way of social management. I say devotee because we claim to follow what is said in Prabhupada's books, but what are you really following? Please show me 4 varnas and 4 asrama and I will go there in the US. Also how pathetic that I live in one of the biggest concentration of devotees in the Western hemisphere and no one is even incline about this subject enough to get together and talk about it. If they do it without me, then more cheating from lesser men.

 

I tried to start a discussion group when iI first came to Alachua and only two came, Rupanuga and Mahasringha. Maha came only once and never came back. Rupanuga and I associated for a yr or so and then just stoped for personal reasons on both our parts. Be that as it may, my point is the lack of interest on everones part. I mean just me and Rupanuga in all of Alachua? How pathetic of a group of poeple is that? All claiming and clamering Srila Prabhupada's name from the roof tops but no one to work out the other half of the movment, all brainwashed from Tamal, one and all. And if Paramanandadas does not agree with DVD now, then I say he is brainwashed too.

 

 

Anyone who thinks any of there little tiny ego trips in the form of more 'ism' are the answer to the ills of this ISKCON movement please read the books of A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja Prabhupada again. Read the part of Prabhupada's will that says strictly follow all rules and regulations as detailed in my books. DVD is everywhere, said by all the greatest of men in our SB. But not amoung the devotees of Srila Prabhupada? I say shame on one and all.

 

 

Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das Bhakti-Raja

[Guest guest]

taken from: http://blog.360./blog-51f3TZkzc6epziBYguqzRzJWmQ--?cq=1&p=16

 

Entry for February 17, 2007

 

Dear Prabhus,

 

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glory to Srila Prabhupada!

 

First, please excuse the typos in my previous posting. I should be more careful before pushing the “post” button. I will endeavor to check my spelling, grammar and punctuation more closely henceforward.

 

Second, my discussion is in no way meant to uphold what has happened in ISKCON since Srila Prabhupada’s Disappearance, nay even prior to his disappearance. The exploitation by the “big shots” is grotesque and horrifying and totally indefensible.

 

Personally I was robbed and threatened to be killed by one of the appointed gurus in 1980, and when I witnessed the other “gurus” covering-up and protecting the guilty I lost all faith in them and never looked back.

 

Srila Prabhupada undoubtedly is present fully in his sound vibration and hearing him is the essential means of developing Krishna Consciousness. Why else did he push us constantly to DISTRIBUTE MY BOOKS? Practically from the day I joined all I did was sell books and organize and facilitate others selling books. Srila Prabhupada lives in his sound forever.

 

What I do not agree with is that one should think that Srila Prabhupada is the only Krishna.Conscious person to ever step on the earth at this time; and/or he is the end of all pure devotees. That is not stated in any shastra, or at anytime by Srila Prabhupada as far as I have heard. If I am wrong, kindly correct me.

 

The first verse of the Guruvastakam says that we get the GURU by the mercy of KRISHNA. If we are sincere, then KRISHNA manifests HIMSELF in the form of GURU as EXTERNAL SUPERSOUL. This is what the philosophy is.

 

Now we can say, “Where are these pure devotees?” Should we not understand that a pure devotee is the most humble of all and he never feels himself a pure devotee? Certainly he is not running an advertising campaign for himself!

 

Yet, KRISHNA is PARAMATMA and when HE sees our sincerity, then HE will appear to us as the pure devotee, that is HIS promise. Some pure devotees may have one disciple like Lokanatha Goswami, others may have no disciples, and others may have hundreds or thousands, but surely KRISHNA has not left the earth planet without a single representative?

 

Now some devotees are finding this in Narayana Maharaja, some in Govinda Maharaja, some in Bhakti Vaibhava Puri Maharaja, and in many others including so many disciples of Srila Prabhupada. Are we the judge and jury to declare none are Krishna Conscious?

 

During Srila Prabhupada’s time, so many of his God Brothers found fault with him. And even today some of his past disciples find fault with him in so many ways. So I see Srila Prabhupada as the external manifestation of the Supreme Lord, but others perceived him differently. Is it not possible that this continues now? Someone sees KRISHNA through one devotee and another thorugh another devotee! Is it my position to tell this Bhakta he is wrong? Not in my understanding.

 

Personally in 1991 I was sunk in the grips of Maya and felt that my creeper would never be watered again in this life! By good fortune I visited Vrindavana and began attending Srila Bhakti Vaibhava Puri Swami’s darsans and gradually by hearing HARI KATHA from him, I became established again in the regulative principles and regular HARI NAM. I felt like Srila Prabhupada had appeared to me again through the agency of his God Brother. This was my PERSONAL experience. Others may not have the same experience. Does this make my experience less real?

 

So, what is my point? It is simply, YES FOLLOW SRILA PRABHUPADA instructions, LISTEN to his VANI and obey it, but do not preclude LORD KRSNA from manifesting HIMSELF as GURU externally in the form of His pure devotee(s)

 

One other point, is simply, if SRILA PRABHUPADA has not been able to produce one pure devotee, then does what he teach work? If we cannot become pure devotees then why should we waste our time????

 

Begging forgiveness for my arrogance and offenses, I remain eternally,

 

Vaisnava Das anu Das,

 

Bhakta dasa

[Guest guest]

 

The IRM is indeed a rehash movement, new boss same as the old boss. I was supportive for only a yr. I told them if they didn't vigorously preach the other 50% (DVD) of the Guru's movement then I was out. And out I went spitting at them for again being cheaters just like the rest. And Yaduraja calling me 'a movement of one', good thing I don't give heart and soul frivolously.

 

 

What on earth is all this demionising of IRM all about!!!?????

 

I mean ok they dont stress DVD (well in your opinion) as you call it and according to the Bhaktachris they believe that J11 is authorised.

 

But that hardly makes them the movement from hell that everyone is trying to make out. I mean come on, please give me one valid point in which sanctions your unfair demonising!

 

I mean we all know what Tamal et al are guilty of, but you guys seem to put IRM in the same league of deviation just because they disagree with you in a few points.

 

I am open for you to convince me why I should abandon the IRM, please let me know what I have been missing.

 

Hare Krishna

[Guest guest]

 

What on earth is all this demionising of IRM all about!!!?????

 

I mean ok they dont stress DVD (well in your opinion) as you call it and according to the Bhaktachris they believe that J11 is authorised.

 

But that hardly makes them the movement from hell that everyone is trying to make out. I mean come on, please give me one valid point in which sanctions your unfair demonising!

 

I mean we all know what Tamal et al are guilty of, but you guys seem to put IRM in the same league of deviation just because they disagree with you in a few points.

 

I am open for you to convince me why I should abandon the IRM, please let me know what I have been missing.

 

Hare Krishna

 

 

 

But you may call leaving out 1/2 of a thing as OK, I have to say that is a failing grade.

 

An other thing is these IRM devottees are either my personal Godbrothers or subordinates. I may say as I have said safely, there is no offence in speaking truth as it is, only 1/2! In any school that is failure, incomplete.

 

As for person attacks, I have not had a knock down drag out fight with any of the IRM. Save and except an exchange on another form with Yaduraja, but it ended when he dismissingly said I was a movement of one. I did not answer, nor post any more to him. No need to go further if we can't be realistic and use guidence from our Guru properly.

 

Focus on just the ritvic aspect of Prabhupada's ISKCON is a diversion of maya to detract energy from implementing DVD. Just like so many other divide and concur schemes of maya.

 

The result is I have to live among non-devotees in the largest concentration of bhaktas in the Western hemesphere, so painful like a prison cell. Where is my bhakta neighbor? You may find this acceptable but I do not now nor will I ever. I did no join ISKCON all those yrs ago just to continue living in karmi land.

 

Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das Bhakti-Raja

[Guest guest]

 

But you may call leaving out 1/2 of a thing as OK, I have to say that is a failing grade.

 

An other thing is these IRM devottees are either my personal Godbrothers or subordinates. I may say as I have said safely, there is no offence in speaking truth as it is, only 1/2! In any school that is failure, incomplete.

 

As for person attacks, I have not had a knock down drag out fight with any of the IRM. Save and except an exchange on another form with Yaduraja, but it ended when he dismissingly said I was a movement of one. I did not answer, nor post any more to him. No need to go further if we can't be realistic and use guidence from our Guru properly.

 

Focus on just the ritvic aspect of Prabhupada's ISKCON is a diversion of maya to detract energy from implementing DVD. Just like so many other divide and concur schemes of maya.

 

The result is I have to live among non-devotees in the largest concentration of bhaktas in the Western hemesphere, so painful like a prison cell. Where is my bhakta neighbor? You may find this acceptable but I do not now nor will I ever. I did no join ISKCON all those yrs ago just to continue living in karmi land.

 

Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das Bhakti-Raja

 

The situation is clearly as described in Srimad Bhagavatam:

 

[...] As stated in Bhagavad-gītā, the Supreme Lord is the proprietor of all planets, and He is always anxious to see that in each and every planet the living entities are happily living and executing their duties. As soon as there is some discrepancy in the execution of duties, the Lord appears on earth, as confirmed in Bhagavad-gītā (4.7): yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata.[...] 4.23.1-3

 

Presently of course there is no mentioning of an incarnation of Krishna, but Krishna can also send an empowered devotee to correct the confusion on planet earth what has the same result:

 

[...]Since there were so many discrepancies during the reign of King Vena, the Lord sent His most confidential devotee Mahārāja Pṛthu to settle things.[...]

 

In other words, when Prabhupada started ISKCON the kali-yuga influence was as such that already during Prabhupada's physical presence too many discrepencies occured and now the time has come that the Supreme Lord once again has to settle things.

[Guest guest]

 

The situation is clearly as described in Srimad Bhagavatam:

 

[...] As stated in Bhagavad-gītā, the Supreme Lord is the proprietor of all planets, and He is always anxious to see that in each and every planet the living entities are happily living and executing their duties. As soon as there is some discrepancy in the execution of duties, the Lord appears on earth, as confirmed in Bhagavad-gītā (4.7): yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata.[...] 4.23.1-3

 

Presently of course there is no mentioning of an incarnation of Krishna, but Krishna can also send an empowered devotee to correct the confusion on planet earth what has the same result:

 

[...]Since there were so many discrepancies during the reign of King Vena, the Lord sent His most confidential devotee Mahārāja Pṛthu to settle things.[...]

 

In other words, when Prabhupada started ISKCON the kali-yuga influence was as such that already during Prabhupada's physical presence too many discrepencies occured and now the time has come that the Supreme Lord once again has to settle things.

 

 

 

With western spam-feed brains how will you know? Even Srila Prabhupada's brothers, a very advanced lot, did not recognize the puruty and force of Prabhupada's preaching and neglected to help Him in any way that was seen by us. I do not even think there are many letters offering encouragement. You are better? Maybe, but I think the truth will be 'not'. It was not until after Samadhi that any came forward. Then a rush ensued, very cheaply. So is this your style of 'waiting'?

 

I think like me, you are simpler and just want to live, eat and breath the same air with your Godbrothers in communal cooperation, dedicated to Book distribution, Hari Nama and passing out prasadam. This will never happen without DVD management. And it is not now anywhere in the US. Including Alachua, biggest dysfuntional collection of devotee in the US of A.

 

How do you know you are not actually neglecting Krsna's help right now? Your heart? That central point of conditioning and moitavtion? Supersoul directs all the wanderings of the living entity and that means you can, by dint of flawed free will, be moving in the opposite direction of Krsna, by His very help. It is up to your own purity of free will that is the guaranty concerning sutible direction in Krsna's favor.

 

The fix is pressent we don't have to wait for anthing but our own hearts to come around to the already reveiled truth from Prabhupada to follow DVD as He has said already in his books and recorded vani.

 

Ritvic yes, is one thing. Just a part of DVD, not a separate movement, nor a stand alone rallying point. The movement is to rest on the cooperation of devotees through the social management of DVD. If you want for a solution to our pressent situation then follow the prepared ksatriya in your area. Get off line and live the life you talk. Walk the walk.

 

I'm in Alachua, come see me, we can at least talk for now. If more like minded devotees see the DVD light then we might have a congregation. Untill then I troll the internet looking for the next step to unfold through like minded prabhus. Are you one for DVD?

 

Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das Bhakti

[Guest guest]

 

With western spam-feed brains how will you know? Even Srila Prabhupada's brothers, a very advanced lot, did not recognize the puruty and force of Prabhupada's preaching and neglected to help Him in any way that was seen by us. I do not even think there are many letters offering encouragement. You are better? Maybe, but I think the truth will be 'not'. It was not until after Samadhi that any came forward. Then a rush ensued, very cheaply. So is this your style of 'waiting'?

 

I think like me, you are simpler and just want to live, eat and breath the same air with your Godbrothers in communal cooperation, dedicated to Book distribution, Hari Nama and passing out prasadam. This will never happen without DVD management. And it is not now anywhere in the US. Including Alachua, biggest dysfuntional collection of devotee in the US of A.

 

How do you know you are not actually neglecting Krsna's help right now? Your heart? That central point of conditioning and moitavtion? Supersoul directs all the wanderings of the living entity and that means you can, by dint of flawed free will, be moving in the opposite direction of Krsna, by His very help. It is up to your own purity of free will that is the guaranty concerning sutible direction in Krsna's favor.

 

The fix is pressent we don't have to wait for anthing but our own hearts to come around to the already reveiled truth from Prabhupada to follow DVD as He has said already in his books and recorded vani.

 

Ritvic yes, is one thing. Just a part of DVD, not a separate movement, nor a stand alone rallying point. The movement is to rest on the cooperation of devotees through the social management of DVD. If you want for a solution to our pressent situation then follow the prepared ksatriya in your area. Get off line and live the life you talk. Walk the walk.

 

I'm in Alachua, come see me, we can at least talk for now. If more like minded devotees see the DVD light then we might have a congregation. Untill then I troll the internet looking for the next step to unfold through like minded prabhus. Are you one for DVD?

 

Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das Bhakti

 

As we saw with our own eyes so many years of bewilderment passed since Prabhupada's samadhi, do we have to comment this? Just the very elapsing of so many years disqualfies global "living" Vaishnavas from knowing what is what - how to manage a global society of devotees. Egoism, I and my, go dasa-ism and false-ego wherever we look into present world of sastra-caksusas. Why not give at least the Lord a chance to correct this glanih, chaos? Why this huge endeavour to lock the doors tight to make it even for the Lord impossible to straighten the confused brains? Krishna even says so, discrepencies happen.

 

yada yada hi dharmasya

glanir bhavati bharata

abhyutthanam adharmasya

tadatmanam srjamy aham

 

Whenever and wherever there is a decline in religious practice, O descendant of Bharata, and a predominant rise of irreligion--at that time I descend Myself. BG 4/7

 

Prabhupada: ..Although the Lord appears on schedule, namely at the end of the Dvapara-yuga of the twenty-eighth millennium of the eighth Manu in one day of Brahma, still He has no obligation to adhere to such rules and regulations because He is completely free to act in many ways at His will. He therefore appears by His own will whenever there is a predominance of irreligiosity and a disappearance of true religion....

[Guest guest]

I will tell you why the IRM is a <B><I> bunch of jokers </B></I>.

 

First they start off as what seems like a group with a tangible and definite goal ... to fix ISKCON. Then over the years, the <I>opportunists</I>, those that have a grudge against ISKCON or it's leaders see the IRM as a free ride that they can ride to shoot against the establishment. Then a few more years later and what do you have ... a bunch of fools that does not agree amongst itself anymore and each is only concerned about the grudge he holds. The common goal is now out of sight and all these years wasted in their useless politicking and what have you got? ... nothing! I was a symathizer of this group but thank my stars, I steered completely clear of this <B><I>worthless group</B></I>. My good fortune that I didn't get embroiled with these low lives.

 

And to top it off, the supposed leader of that group has the nerve to call himself so. What the hell kind of qualification does he possess? Foolish is the man that follows another fool!

 

 

What on earth is all this demionising of IRM all about!!!?????

 

I mean ok they dont stress DVD (well in your opinion) as you call it and according to the Bhaktachris they believe that J11 is authorised.

 

But that hardly makes them the movement from hell that everyone is trying to make out. I mean come on, please give me one valid point in which sanctions your unfair demonising!

 

I mean we all know what Tamal et al are guilty of, but you guys seem to put IRM in the same league of deviation just because they disagree with you in a few points.

 

I am open for you to convince me why I should abandon the IRM, please let me know what I have been missing.

 

Hare Krishna

[Guest guest]

IRM is the only organisation who is ACTUALLY DOING SOMETHING about the corruption by actively distributing literature proving the Prabhupada is the Guru of Iskcon. Who else is doing that? Are you doing that? Are you facing crazed brainwashed false guru supporters and putting up with their abuse? No you are just fault finding and doing nothing. The IRM devotee's are putting up with abuse from demons to tell the innocent sincere devotees in Iskcon that Prabhupada is their Guru and that the whole guru system in ISKCON is a hoax.

 

They may not be perfect devotees, but their mission is perfect to establish Prabhupada's authorised system back into Iskcon. They are engaging in the most valuable service to Prabhupada, and all you can do is critisize? Who's side are you on?

 

 

 

 

I will tell you why the IRM is a <B><I> bunch of jokers </B></I>.

 

First they start off as what seems like a group with a tangible and definite goal ... to fix ISKCON. Then over the years, the <I>opportunists</I>, those that have a grudge against ISKCON or it's leaders see the IRM as a free ride that they can ride to shoot against the establishment. Then a few more years later and what do you have ... a bunch of fools that does not agree amongst itself anymore and each is only concerned about the grudge he holds. The common goal is now out of sight and all these years wasted in their useless politicking and what have you got? ... nothing! I was a symathizer of this group but thank my stars, I steered completely clear of this <B><I>worthless group</B></I>. My good fortune that I didn't get embroiled with these low lives.

 

And to top it off, the supposed leader of that group has the nerve to call himself so. What the hell kind of qualification does he possess? Foolish is the man that follows another fool!

[Guest guest]

 

 

And to top it off, the supposed leader of that group has the nerve to call himself so. What the hell kind of qualification does he possess? Foolish is the man that follows another fool!

 

And the theif shouted, " I am not stealing!"

 

Isnt it interesting that you are focused on the subject of WHO IS LEADER of the IRM, and why should such a person be the leader.

 

You have given away yourself and your motives with this last sentance.

 

The definition of envy is, 'why should you have this, what qualifies you to have it, I SHOULD HAVE IT!

[Guest guest]

 

IRM is the only organisation who is ACTUALLY DOING SOMETHING about the corruption by actively distributing literature proving the Prabhupada is the Guru of Iskcon. Who else is doing that? Are you doing that? Are you facing crazed brainwashed false guru supporters and putting up with their abuse? No you are just fault finding and doing nothing. The IRM devotee's are putting up with abuse from demons to tell the innocent sincere devotees in Iskcon that Prabhupada is their Guru and that the whole guru system in ISKCON is a hoax.

 

They may not be perfect devotees, but their mission is perfect to establish Prabhupada's authorised system back into Iskcon. They are engaging in the most valuable service to Prabhupada, and all you can do is critisize? Who's side are you on?

 

The message of the Final Order by IRM is being distributed since 15 years.

Who within ISKCON doesnt know it by now word by word?

In other words, according IRM these devotees know the truth but consciously do the very opposite, accept initiation not from Prabhupada but from someone else. Lets say you want to teach someone how to properly drive a car but this person just cannot manage to understand and do what you tell him. He heard your instructions again and again, knows them by heart, but just doesnt do what you say.

How long to go on to teach that person lessons?

[Guest guest]

 

As we saw with our own eyes so many years of bewilderment passed since Prabhupada's samadhi, do we have to comment this? Just the very elapsing of so many years disqualfies global "living" Vaishnavas from knowing what is what - how to manage a global society of devotees. Egoism, I and my, go dasa-ism and false-ego wherever we look into present world of sastra-caksusas. Why not give at least the Lord a chance to correct this glanih, chaos? Why this huge endeavour to lock the doors tight to make it even for the Lord impossible to straighten the confused brains? Krishna even says so, discrepencies happen.

 

yada yada hi dharmasya

glanir bhavati bharata

abhyutthanam adharmasya

tadatmanam srjamy aham

 

Whenever and wherever there is a decline in religious practice, O descendant of Bharata, and a predominant rise of irreligion--at that time I descend Myself. BG 4/7

 

Prabhupada: ..Although the Lord appears on schedule, namely at the end of the Dvapara-yuga of the twenty-eighth millennium of the eighth Manu in one day of Brahma, still He has no obligation to adhere to such rules and regulations because He is completely free to act in many ways at His will. He therefore appears by His own will whenever there is a predominance of irreligiosity and a disappearance of true religion....

 

Hare Krsna, guest108 or what ever. What is the problem using honest names??

 

Strawman, it's just to ridiculous that you would think that this applies to the current condition of ISKCON non-culture. Guru say to do a thing and you reply to wait for Krsna to come?? New Bk, infantile, sentimental speculation.

 

Who's your daddy? He should be slapped up side the head for letting you on the net with big boys. Of course that was figurative, get it?

 

Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das Bhakti-Raja