Iskcon Rehash Movement dies ki jai!, Good Riddance to a Bad Thing

[Guest guest]

Prabhu ... I'm disappointed with what you said below, I expected better from you.

 

Did you scrutinize every single devotee within ISKCON? If not, how do you know? I dont understand why you make such statements.

 

 

These are good points and based upon facts. <font size=4 color="red">Today we find nobody within ISKCON to even following the simple vow of celibacy. </font>

[bhaktatraveler]

 

Prabhu ... I'm disappointed with what you said below, I expected better from you.

 

Did you scrutinize every single devotee within ISKCON? If not, how do you know? I dont understand why you make such statements.

 

Give a little prabhu, it is a general statement. Not ment to insite riot from like minded souls. It is expected that exception to a rule will be common. He is making a point of the GENERAL condition. Not that nice exceptional, individual, vaisya/madhyam that always funtions and follows the rules and regulations of vaisya.

 

Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das Bhakti-Raja

[Guest guest]

 

Hansadutta's site is down now, but he advertises himself as being a Ritvik, and since he is on the list written by tamal that got the 11 into that perfect faction, which lead to what we have now, and it is "authorized" by Prabhupada (not very likely) why are'nt you (who are so easily duped) following that order? Send all newbies to Hansadutta!

 

Your still struggling with this very SIMPLE point. THEY FELL DOWN, a Ritvic is no longer able to act in that position if they FALL DOWN. THEY CANNOT AUTHORISE THEMSELVES TO INITIATE AGAIN IF THEY FELL.

 

Very simple, 'simple for the simple'.

 

Prabhu, I find your incoherent ramblings, senseless, and quite delusional. You SPECULATE that the letter is a forgery. That is an unproven assumption and you base everything on a SPECULATION. You stupidly claim that if an order is disobheyed that means the order is bogus!!! Absolutely crazy assumption. Yes Prabhupada said "judge by the result" (I know your going to say that AGAIN!) but you are taking it out of context.

 

Your misintepretation of this is that a bona fide order, if disobheyed means that the order was bogus. You could say that the RESULT of Prabhupada comming to the West is thousands of children being abused in the Gurukuls. See how rediculous your logic is. Prabhupada is pure and because some of his disciples deviated that in no way means that Prabhupada was responsible. Similarly the July9th letter is bonafide but those who were asked to act only as Ritviks became guru's.

 

I am finished with your speculation and mindless delusional nonsense.

[bhaktatraveler]

 

Your still struggling with this very SIMPLE point. THEY FELL DOWN, a Ritvic is no longer able to act in that position if they FALL DOWN. THEY CANNOT AUTHORISE THEMSELVES TO INITIATE AGAIN IF THEY FELL.

 

Very simple, 'simple for the simple'.

 

Prabhu, I find your incoherent ramblings, senseless, and quite delusional. You SPECULATE that the letter is a forgery. That is an unproven assumption and you base everything on a SPECULATION. You stupidly claim that if an order is disobheyed that means the order is bogus!!! Absolutely crazy assumption. Yes Prabhupada said "judge by the result" (I know your going to say that AGAIN!) but you are taking it out of context.

 

Your misintepretation of this is that a bona fide order, if disobheyed means that the order was bogus. You could say that the RESULT of Prabhupada comming to the West is thousands of children being abused in the Gurukuls. See how rediculous your logic is. Prabhupada is pure and because some of his disciples deviated that in no way means that Prabhupada was responsible. Similarly the July9th letter is bonafide but those who were asked to act only as Ritviks became guru's.

 

I am finished with your speculation and mindless delusional nonsense.

 

 

 

I'm going to venture a guess that Bk Chris is suffering from extreme burn-out, still after so many yrs. This apparent wall could be a cooping mechanism. The guys heart is still smoldering from previous heat.

 

Bk. Chris is hurt, not dumb.

 

 

CB-r

[bhaktachris]

 

Hare Krsna BK Chris

 

Let me put it this way. Forgiveness is for everyone. But if a sannyasi has his hand in between the legs of a 12 yrs old then he will not be aloud to cheat and say 'sorry, I will be good'. NO:mad2: he has done this, now let him get married. And be sanctioned as is fit. Especially by the father and King!

 

Same applies to ritvic, even more. Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das Bhakti-Raja

 

That is just my point, we were told when the letter came out that Bhavananda was putting more then his hand between the legs of youngin's before the letter written by tamal came out.

 

So the letter along with tamal and queertanananada was rejected, and their buddies too.

 

Rejected by me from 77 on, but irm and ritviks want to keep it, want to use it, and want to bring it back! ahhahahahahhaha

[bhaktatraveler]

 

That is just my point, we were told when the letter came out that Bhavananda was putting more then his hand between the legs of youngin's before the letter written by tamal came out.

 

So the letter along with tamal and queertanananada was rejected, and their buddies too.

 

Rejected by me from 77 on, but irm and ritviks want to keep it, want to use it, and want to bring it back! ahhahahahahhaha

 

 

Not bring back the nuts of abuse! just the order, method of formalities. This will help take the insanity out of the brahman vana too. The Guru syndrome. A tall job I admit. But lets go Rhino hunting or why bother? Your saying why bother.

 

I'm say 'because I got'a' and so do many other devotees pine for the shelter of Guru's institutional umbrella, ISKCON. If you do not want, then that is another thing.

 

Srila Prabhupada made an institution, ISKCON, to give shelter from the eliments of maya. At least we can take all the instructions and give another go, cann't we? My attachment to it(ISKCON) and desire for it to function, will not go away. Always I will try.

 

Hare Krsna,

 

Caturbahu das

[bhaktatraveler]

 

That is just my point, we were told when the letter came out that Bhavananda was putting more then his hand between the legs of youngin's before the letter written by tamal came out.

 

So the letter along with tamal and queertanananada was rejected, and their buddies too.

 

Rejected by me from 77 on, but irm and ritviks want to keep it, want to use it, and want to bring it back! ahhahahahahhaha

 

 

Why the pretense of missing the point of rejecting previously fallen Ritvics? Or that Tamal as secretary had the duty to 'write' for Srila Prabhupada. And that there is no order to be regular Guru. Which would support your contention.

 

You are afraid to admit you have been wrong for yrs? Cann't eat your humble pie? Your blinder of initial protection, have now given you tunnel vission?

 

Hare Krsna,

 

Caturbahu das Bhakti-raja

[Guest guest]

Point taken, travelling Bhakta prabhu!

 

 

Give a little prabhu, it is a general statement. Not ment to insite riot from like minded souls. It is expected that exception to a rule will be common. He is making a point of the GENERAL condition. Not that nice exceptional, individual, vaisya/madhyam that always funtions and follows the rules and regulations of vaisya.

 

Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das Bhakti-Raja

[Guest guest]

LOL prabhu! Good way of putting it without using the necessary English words

 

 

That is just my point, we were told when the letter came out that Bhavananda was putting more then his hand between the legs of youngin's before the letter written by tamal came out.

 

[bhaktatraveler]

 

LOL prabhu! Good way of putting it without using the necessary English words

 

Unfortunate as we are, this insident happened in the early 90's I think and the sannyasi was Indian. Gopal Krsna said to my face that he should be forgiven and no sanctions imposed. Forgive and forget.

 

I said the offender should marry and give up sannyasa and being 'guru', then ask for forgiveness.

 

Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das Bhakti-raja

[Guest guest]

The above post says Bhavananda and you say Indian sannyasi. Were there 2 guilty people?

 

Also, I'm surpised to hear that these kind of things happened as late as the early 90's. I thought the problems were mainly in the 80's and people learnt not to make those mistakes again.

 

As regards forgiving, I agree that he should be forgiven but as you said, why continue as a sannyasi anymore. In that regard, I would like to ask a question ... if a sannyasi falls down, does that mean he is no longer qualified to live in the sannyasa ashram? Does he have to necessarily give it up?

 

 

Unfortunate as we are, this insident happened in the early 90's I think and the sannyasi was Indian. Gopal Krsna said to my face that he should be forgiven and no sanctions imposed. Forgive and forget.

 

I said the offender should marry and give up sannyasa and being 'guru', then ask for forgiveness.

 

Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das Bhakti-raja

[bhaktatraveler]

 

The above post says Bhavananda and you say Indian sannyasi. Were there 2 guilty people?

 

Also, I'm surpised to hear that these kind of things happened as late as the early 90's. I thought the problems were mainly in the 80's and people learnt not to make those mistakes again.

 

As regards forgiving, I agree that he should be forgiven but as you said, why continue as a sannyasi anymore. In that regard, I would like to ask a question ... if a sannyasi falls down, does that mean he is no longer qualified to live in the sannyasa ashram? Does he have to necessarily give it up?

 

Fall down from a high place can have a very profound effect. Yes, the sannyasa in question would no longer be in that asrama. And as for the brahman varna? Do you agree to have as brahman as child molester? If so, I will live else where.

 

Let him suffer fairly, grhastha asrama and lower varna. Plus it would have to be understood that his actions, even if still Vaisnava, would fall under the catigory of kanishta, not madhyam or uttama. No one should take intructions in God consciousness from him, it would then be as poison from the lips of a serpant.

 

PURPORT BG. 3.7PURPORT

Instead of becoming a pseudo-transcendentalist for the sake of wanton living and sense enjoyment, it is far better to remain in one’s own business and execute the purpose of life, which is to get free from material bondage and enter into the kingdom of God. The prime svartha-gati, or goal of self-interest, is to reach Vishnu. The whole institution of varna and asrama is designed to help us reach this goal of life. A householder can also reach this destination by regulated service in Krishna consciousness. For self-realization, one can live a controlled life, as prescribed in the sastras, and continue carrying out his business without attachment, and in that way make progress. Such a sincere person who follows this method is far better situated than the false pretender who adopts show-bottle spiritualism to cheat the innocent public. A sincere sweeper in the street is far better than the charlatan meditator who meditates only for the sake of making a living.

 

 

What do you think, as in deductive reasoning?

 

Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das Bhakti-raja

[Guest guest]

 

Plus it would have to be understood that his actions, even if still Vaisnava, would fall under the catigory of kanishta, not madhyam or uttama.

 

lol your off your head mate

 

a chold molester a vaisnava? a kanishta? lol give me a break. Even in a society of yavana's a childmolester is the lowest of the low and you say kanista?

 

A yavana wouldnt even DREAM of molesting of hurting a child, and your blase about the fact a vaisnava kanishta would do such a thing! This is the problem with ISKCON a bunch of namby pamby child molester apologists. Its really sick.

[bhaktachris]

 

Unfortunate as we are, this insident happened in the early 90's I think and the sannyasi was Indian. Gopal Krsna said to my face that he should be forgiven and no sanctions imposed. Forgive and forget.

 

I said the offender should marry and give up sannyasa and being 'guru', then ask for forgiveness.

 

Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das Bhakti-raja

 

Wrong! I was told shortly after the attack at Mayapura that Prabhuapada was informed about in 77 happened because of Bhavananada and what he was doing.

 

If a young teen ager like me could know, then many others must have known too. But Prabhupada was not told. And so when tamal's letter was written, we HAD to reject atleast 5 from the List, immediatly cuz' we KNEW!

 

You must have been in the dark to think it was not untill the 90's.

[bhaktatraveler]

 

Wrong! I was told shortly after the attack at Mayapura that Prabhuapada was informed about in 77 happened because of Bhavananada and what he was doing.

 

If a young teen ager like me could know, then many others must have known too. But Prabhupada was not told. And so when tamal's letter was written, we HAD to reject atleast 5 from the List, immediatly cuz' we KNEW!

 

You must have been in the dark to think it was not untill the 90's.

 

 

Bk Chris, I say again, the incident that I'm now speaking of happened in the US around mid 90's. Perpetrator is Indian and victom lived on East coast. In the home of a disciple, with the daughter. This is one of the still big named sannyasis today.

 

 

Did I know what was going on in Mayapura in 77? No, just the roomer mill, no first hand info, just gossip. I was not 'inside' Iskcon then, but still had loose conection. The regular devotees were keep very much in the dark then, as they still are now.

 

I still say that who is on the 'list' was the congregations fault for continued support where all were falling. Because of the propaganda mill and feeding from such poison, the blinded congregation was owned early on. And your post support that supposition.

 

Not Srila Prabhupada. ISKCON took a different life/death from a dynamic that is still replacing Prabhupada today. Prabhupada was setting up a stop gap measure to continue initiations long after the dust of a disfuntion has past and settled.

 

Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das Bhakti-raja

[bhaktatraveler]

 

lol your off your head mate

 

a chold molester a vaisnava? a kanishta? lol give me a break. Even in a society of yavana's a childmolester is the lowest of the low and you say kanista?

 

A yavana wouldnt even DREAM of molesting of hurting a child, and your blase about the fact a vaisnava kanishta would do such a thing! This is the problem with ISKCON a bunch of namby pamby child molester apologists. Its really sick.

 

 

Hare Krsna

 

Yes, I agree about child molesting, he is animal and less than sutible to occupy a position in 'Human' society, DVD. I don't apologies for such, he is what he has done, a sort of monster. The real verdic is death, death for rape too, no mater which sex is the victim. He is an agresser, a henious predator to put down with all prodigious. Dead now.

 

Please apologist? Not me!! I was fishing for opinion, you have a good one on this delicate subject.

 

Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das Bhakti-raje

[Guest guest]

 

Hare Krsna

 

Yes, I agree about child molesting, he is animal and less than sutible to occupy a position in 'Human' society, DVD. I don't apologies for such, he is what he has done, a sort of monster. The real verdic is death, death for rape too, no mater which sex is the victim. He is an agresser, a henious predator to put down with all prodigious. Dead now.

 

Please apologist? Not me!! I was fishing for opinion, you have a good one on this delicate subject.

 

Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das Bhakti-raje

 

I also appologise Prabhuji, I was quite harsh with you and I am sorry for that. I am just very passionate and angry about the way that the predators are protected and the poor children are neglected which has been the case in Iskcon.

 

Hare Krishna

[bhaktatraveler]

 

I also appologise Prabhuji, I was quite harsh with you and I am sorry for that. I am just very passionate and angry about the way that the predators are protected and the poor children are neglected which has been the case in Iskcon.

 

Hare Krishna

 

 

Hare Krsna GuestJack

 

No worries on my side, I feel your pain and have some of my own. I like the passion, keep it up.

 

CB-r

[Guest guest]

LOL prabhu! No, you don't need to live elsewhere! I certainly cannot accept someone like that as brahman varna.

 

 

Fall down from a high place can have a very profound effect. Yes, the sannyasa in question would no longer be in that asrama. And as for the brahman varna? Do you agree to have as brahman as

child molester? If so, I will live else where.

 

 

 

PURPORT BG. 3.7PURPORT

Instead of becoming a pseudo-transcendentalist for the sake of wanton living and sense enjoyment, it is far better to remain in one’s own business and execute the purpose of life, which is to get free from material bondage and enter into the kingdom of God. The prime svartha-gati, or goal of self-interest, is to reach Vishnu. The whole institution of varna and asrama is designed to help us reach this goal of life. A householder can also reach this destination by regulated service in Krishna consciousness. For self-realization, one can live a controlled life, as prescribed in the sastras, and continue carrying out his business without attachment, and in that way make progress. Such a sincere person who follows this method is far better situated than the false pretender who adopts show-bottle spiritualism to cheat the innocent public. A sincere sweeper in the street is far better than the charlatan meditator who meditates only for the sake of making a living.

 

What do you think, as in deductive reasoning?

 

Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das Bhakti-raja

 

What do I think? Well, I just accept what you have stated. However, I would go on to say that such persons should be given another chance <B><I>if, and after</B></I> , they feel remose for their actions and atone for it. Atonement may include punishment by the law (I'm not sure how punishment is meted out in a DVD system). The reason I say they must be given a second chance is because most people are offenders util they're purified by a suitable process, supremely potent among which is Krishna Consciousness. If we were to reject every offender (and I don't just mean child offenders), we would just have a society of outcasts.

 

Please be aware that I'm in no way advocating <B><I>protection</B></I> for such people but just more compassion to help them deal with their tendencies. If they don't reform, then more drastic measures are necesary.

 

Let me know if this post doesn't make sense. I'm not an expert in such matters or any matter at all but since you asked for deductive reasoning, I have attempted to chip in

[bhaktatraveler]

 

LOL prabhu! No, you don't need to live elsewhere! I certainly cannot accept someone like that as brahman varna.

 

 

 

 

 

 

What do I think? Well, I just accept what you have stated. However, I would go on to say that such persons should be given another chance if, and after , they feel remose for their actions and atone for it. Atonement may include punishment by the law (I'm not sure how punishment is meted out in a DVD system). The reason I say they must be given a second chance is because most people are offenders util they're purified by a suitable process, supremely potent among which is Krishna Consciousness. If we were to reject every offender (and I don't just mean child offenders), we would just have a society of outcasts.

 

Please be aware that I'm in no way advocating protection for such people but just more compassion to help them deal with their tendencies. If they don't reform, then more drastic measures are necesary.

 

Let me know if this post doesn't make sense. I'm not an expert in such matters or any matter at all but since you asked for deductive reasoning, I have attempted to chip in

 

 

Hare Krsna Guest......andra

 

Good post, no problemo.

 

Minor infractions are tolerated in all asramas and varnas, we are coming from dog life what else can we do? But only minor. It will take generations of DVD life style to purify us to any degree along with the chanting of the holy names of Krsna, Hari, Rama and following the perscriptions of sadhana. This concideration everyone gets.

 

The big things would mean that actions of an other kind must happen in the degree the infraction necessitates. And that can be open to interpitation as to the offence commited.

 

If we have a sannyas fall to sex then he is out of that asrama for good or the asrama becomes ludricous. Forgive? Yes, in an other asrama. That is only for man/woman fall down. We are not talking about with a child. Then he goes to jail or..........

 

Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das Bhakti-raja

[Guest guest]

 

Hare Krsna Guest......andra

 

Guest .... andra!! LOL!

 

 

 

Hare Krsna Guest......andra

 

Good post, no problemo.

 

Minor infractions are tolerated in all asramas and varnas, we are coming from dog life what else can we do? But only minor. It will take generations of DVD life style to purify us to any degree along with the chanting of the holy names of Krsna, Hari, Rama and following the perscriptions of sadhana. This concideration everyone gets.

 

The big things would mean that actions of an other kind must happen in the degree the infraction necessitates. And that can be open to interpitation as to the offence commited.

 

If we have a sannyas fall to sex then he is out of that asrama for good or the asrama becomes ludricous. Forgive? Yes, in an other asrama. That is only for man/woman fall down. We are not talking about with a child. Then he goes to jail or..........

 

Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das Bhakti-raja

 

Agree with all your points. The asrama must be respected. One who cannot adhere to the rules of that asrama must step out it.

 

Actually, come to think of it ... if one cannot control his or her urges, one may simply be honest about it and go to another asrama. Such as from sannyasa asrama to grihastha. While it may seem like a step down, Grhastaha is also a recognized asrama. UI therefore do not understand why some people try to conceal their defects adn remain in that particular category (asrama) while it is possible to just go to another category and satisy the urges. In this context, by urge, I mean the desire to enjoy with the opposite sex.

[bhaktatraveler]

 

Guest .... andra!! LOL!

 

 

 

 

Agree with all your points. The asrama must be respected. One who cannot adhere to the rules of that asrama must step out it.

 

Actually, come to think of it ... if one cannot control his or her urges, one may simply be honest about it and go to another asrama. Such as from sannyasa asrama to grihastha. While it may seem like a step down, Grhastaha is also a recognized asrama. UI therefore do not understand why some people try to conceal their defects adn remain in that particular category (asrama) while it is possible to just go to another category and satisy the urges. In this context, by urge, I mean the desire to enjoy with the opposite sex.

 

 

This from the story of the elephant Gajenra.......

 

SB 8/2/30

 

 

TRANSLATION

Thereafter, because of being pulled into the water and fighting for many long years, the elephant became diminished in his mental, physical and sensual strength. The crocodile, on the contrary, being an animal of the water, increased in enthusiasm, physical strength and sensual power.

 

PURPORT

In the fighting between the elephant and the crocodile, the difference was that although the elephant was extremely powerful, he was in a foreign place, in the water. During one thousand years of fighting, he could not get any food, and under the circumstances his bodily strength diminished, and because his bodily strength diminished, his mind also became weak and his senses less powerful. The crocodile, however, being an animal of the water, had no difficulties. He was getting food and was therefore getting mental strength and sensual encouragement. Thus while the elephant became reduced in strength, the crocodile became more and more powerful. Now, from this we may take the lesson that in our fight with maya we should not be in a position in which our strength, enthusiasm and senses will be unable to fight vigorously. Our Krishna consciousness movement has actually declared war against the illusory energy, in which all the living entities are rotting in a false understanding of civilization. The soldiers in this Krishna consciousness movement must always possess physical strength, enthusiasm and sensual power. To keep themselves fit, they must therefore place themselves in a normal condition of life. What constitutes a normal condition will not be the same for everyone, and therefore there are divisions of varnasrama—brahmana, kshatriya, vaisya, sudra, brahmacarya, grihastha, vanaprastha and sannyasa. Especially in this age, Kali-yuga, it is advised that no one take sannyasa.

 

asvamedham gavalambham

sannyasam pala-paitrikam

devarena sutotpattim

kalau panca vivarjayet

[Cc. Adi 17.164]

(Brahma-vaivarta Purana)

 

From this we can understand that in this age the sannyasa-asrama is forbidden because people are not strong. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu showed us an example in taking sannyasa at the age of twenty-four years, but even Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya advised Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu to be extremely careful because He had taken sannyasa at an early age. For preaching we give young boys sannyasa, but actually it is being experienced that they are not fit for sannyasa. There is no harm, however, if one thinks that he is unfit for sannyasa; if he is very much agitated sexually, he should go to the asrama where sex is allowed, namely the grihastha-asrama. That one has been found to be very weak in one place does not mean that he should stop fighting the crocodile of maya. One should take shelter of the lotus feet of Krishna, as we shall see Gajendra do, and at the same time one can be a grihastha if he is satisfied with sexual indulgence. There is no need to give up the fight. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu therefore recommended, sthane sthitah sruti-gatam tanu-van-manobhih. One may stay in whichever asrama is suitable for him; it is not essential that one take sannyasa. If one is sexually agitated, he can enter the grihastha-asrama. But one must continue fighting. For one who is not in a transcendental position, to take sannyasa artificially is not a very great credit. If sannyasa is not suitable, one may enter the grihastha-asrama and fight maya with great strength. But one should not give up the fighting and go away.

 

 

CB-r

[Guest guest]

 

This from the story of the elephant Gajenra.......

 

SB 8/2/30

 

 

TRANSLATION

Thereafter, because of being pulled into the water and fighting for many long years, the elephant became diminished in his mental, physical and sensual strength. The crocodile, on the contrary, being an animal of the water, increased in enthusiasm, physical strength and sensual power.

 

PURPORT

In the fighting between the elephant and the crocodile, the difference was that although the elephant was extremely powerful, he was in a foreign place, in the water. During one thousand years of fighting, he could not get any food, and under the circumstances his bodily strength diminished, and because his bodily strength diminished, his mind also became weak and his senses less powerful. The crocodile, however, being an animal of the water, had no difficulties. He was getting food and was therefore getting mental strength and sensual encouragement. Thus while the elephant became reduced in strength, the crocodile became more and more powerful. Now, from this we may take the lesson that in our fight with maya we should not be in a position in which our strength, enthusiasm and senses will be unable to fight vigorously. Our Krishna consciousness movement has actually declared war against the illusory energy, in which all the living entities are rotting in a false understanding of civilization. The soldiers in this Krishna consciousness movement must always possess physical strength, enthusiasm and sensual power. To keep themselves fit, they must therefore place themselves in a normal condition of life. What constitutes a normal condition will not be the same for everyone, and therefore there are divisions of varnasrama—brahmana, kshatriya, vaisya, sudra, brahmacarya, grihastha, vanaprastha and sannyasa. Especially in this age, Kali-yuga, it is advised that no one take sannyasa.

 

asvamedham gavalambham

sannyasam pala-paitrikam

devarena sutotpattim

kalau panca vivarjayet

[Cc. Adi 17.164]

(Brahma-vaivarta Purana)

 

From this we can understand that in this age the sannyasa-asrama is forbidden because people are not strong. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu showed us an example in taking sannyasa at the age of twenty-four years, but even Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya advised Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu to be extremely careful because He had taken sannyasa at an early age. For preaching we give young boys sannyasa, but actually it is being experienced that they are not fit for sannyasa. There is no harm, however, if one thinks that he is unfit for sannyasa; if he is very much agitated sexually, he should go to the asrama where sex is allowed, namely the grihastha-asrama. That one has been found to be very weak in one place does not mean that he should stop fighting the crocodile of maya. One should take shelter of the lotus feet of Krishna, as we shall see Gajendra do, and at the same time one can be a grihastha if he is satisfied with sexual indulgence. There is no need to give up the fight. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu therefore recommended, sthane sthitah sruti-gatam tanu-van-manobhih. One may stay in whichever asrama is suitable for him; it is not essential that one take sannyasa. If one is sexually agitated, he can enter the grihastha-asrama. But one must continue fighting. For one who is not in a transcendental position, to take sannyasa artificially is not a very great credit. If sannyasa is not suitable, one may enter the grihastha-asrama and fight maya with great strength. But one should not give up the fighting and go away.

 

 

CB-r

 

TRANSLATION

 

All the rules and regulations apply equally to the householder and the sannyāsī, the member of the renounced order of life. The gṛhastha, however, is given permission by the spiritual master to indulge in sex during the period favorable for procreation.

 

PURPORT

 

It is sometimes misunderstood that a gṛhastha, a householder, is permitted to indulge in sex at any time. This is a wrong conception of gṛhastha life. In spiritual life, whether one is a gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsī or brahmacārī, everyone is under the control of the spiritual master. For brahmacārīs and sannyāsīs there are strong restrictions on sexual indulgence. Similarly, there are strong restrictions for gṛhasthas. Gṛhasthas should indulge in sex life only in accordance with the order of the guru. Therefore it is mentioned here that one must follow the orders of the spiritual master (guru-vṛttir vikalpena). When the spiritual master orders, the gṛhastha may accept sex life. This is confirmed in Bhagavad-gītā (7.11). Dharmāviruddho bhūteṣu kāmo 'smi: indulgence in sex life without disobedience to the religious rules and regulations constitutes a religious principle. The gṛhastha is allowed to indulge in sex life during the period favorable for procreation and in accordance with the spiritual master's order. If the spiritual master's orders allow a gṛhastha to engage in sex life at a particular time, then the gṛhastha may do so; otherwise, if the spiritual master orders against it, the gṛhastha should abstain. The gṛhastha must obtain permission from the spiritual master to observe the ritualistic ceremony of garbhādhāna-saḿskāra. Then he may approach his wife to beget children, otherwise not. A brāhmaṇa generally remains a brahmacārī throughout his entire life, but although some brāhmaṇas become gṛhasthas and indulge in sex life, they do so under the complete control of the spiritual master. The kṣatriya is allowed to marry more than one wife, but this also must be in accordance with the instructions of the spiritual master. It is not that because one is a gṛhastha he may marry as many times as he likes and indulge in sex life as he likes. This is not spiritual life. In spiritual life, one must conduct one's whole life under the guidance of the guru. Only one who executes his spiritual life under the direction of the spiritual master can achieve the mercy of Kṛṣṇa. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ. If one desires to advance in spiritual life but he acts whimsically, not following the orders of the spiritual master, he has no shelter. Yasyāprasādān na gatiḥ kuto 'pi. Without the spiritual master's order, even the gṛhastha should not indulge in sex life. SB 7.12.11

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It should be also clear to any sober person that the present global system of taxing people is so much kali-yuga that to open a vedic farm is even impossible when someone is so materially fortunate to be the proprietor of his own farm with sufficient feedlots. In order for a farmer to make an income for properly maintaining his family and pay his bills he has to first of all successfully sell his products. And exactly here is the crux, if he doesnt produce foodstuffs on his farm which are specified by the mleccha global governments his farm runs straight into bankruptcy. Next he has to borrow on mortgage in order to survive and finally he will give his indebted farm to the bank for a song. This is reality, everything else an illusion.

[bhaktatraveler]

 

TRANSLATION

 

All the rules and regulations apply equally to the householder and the sannyāsī, the member of the renounced order of life. The gṛhastha, however, is given permission by the spiritual master to indulge in sex during the period favorable for procreation.

 

PURPORT

 

It is sometimes misunderstood that a gṛhastha, a householder, is permitted to indulge in sex at any time. This is a wrong conception of gṛhastha life. In spiritual life, whether one is a gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsī or brahmacārī, everyone is under the control of the spiritual master. For brahmacārīs and sannyāsīs there are strong restrictions on sexual indulgence. Similarly, there are strong restrictions for gṛhasthas. Gṛhasthas should indulge in sex life only in accordance with the order of the guru. Therefore it is mentioned here that one must follow the orders of the spiritual master (guru-vṛttir vikalpena). When the spiritual master orders, the gṛhastha may accept sex life. This is confirmed in Bhagavad-gītā (7.11). Dharmāviruddho bhūteṣu kāmo 'smi: indulgence in sex life without disobedience to the religious rules and regulations constitutes a religious principle. The gṛhastha is allowed to indulge in sex life during the period favorable for procreation and in accordance with the spiritual master's order. If the spiritual master's orders allow a gṛhastha to engage in sex life at a particular time, then the gṛhastha may do so; otherwise, if the spiritual master orders against it, the gṛhastha should abstain. The gṛhastha must obtain permission from the spiritual master to observe the ritualistic ceremony of garbhādhāna-saḿskāra. Then he may approach his wife to beget children, otherwise not. A brāhmaṇa generally remains a brahmacārī throughout his entire life, but although some brāhmaṇas become gṛhasthas and indulge in sex life, they do so under the complete control of the spiritual master. The kṣatriya is allowed to marry more than one wife, but this also must be in accordance with the instructions of the spiritual master. It is not that because one is a gṛhastha he may marry as many times as he likes and indulge in sex life as he likes. This is not spiritual life. In spiritual life, one must conduct one's whole life under the guidance of the guru. Only one who executes his spiritual life under the direction of the spiritual master can achieve the mercy of Kṛṣṇa. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ. If one desires to advance in spiritual life but he acts whimsically, not following the orders of the spiritual master, he has no shelter. Yasyāprasādān na gatiḥ kuto 'pi. Without the spiritual master's order, even the gṛhastha should not indulge in sex life. SB 7.12.11

-----------------------

It should be also clear to any sober person that the present global system of taxing people is so much kali-yuga that to open a vedic farm is even impossible when someone is so materially fortunate to be the proprietor of his own farm with sufficient feedlots. In order for a farmer to make an income for properly maintaining his family and pay his bills he has to first of all successfully sell his products. And exactly here is the crux, if he doesnt produce foodstuffs on his farm which are specified by the mleccha global governments his farm runs straight into bankruptcy. Next he has to borrow on mortgage in order to survive and finally he will give his indebted farm to the bank for a song. This is reality, everything else an illusion.

 

Hare Krsna.

 

This post is compleatly off topic. Then I guess we did diverge a bit. LOL. But on a favored topic of mine. The title is a bit misleading too when we read the verse used for support. Your text is also not congruent with the verse either.

 

None the less what you say is very true about todays farmer. How to help is a big broad subject and has many 'ifs' in it as not. We can hope to help by example, show what to do by having in place a working village to give encouragement and support. Tall order but if we do not start for real then never will it be done. A long journey starts with the first step. That is at least the correct idea of DVD and the particulars included.

 

CB-r

[Guest guest]

I would say that of all the urges, the urge of lust or sex, is the strongest. I read somewhere that Srila Prabhupada said that lust is the cause of all problems. It seems to be very true. Perhaps you can throw more light on that.

 

 

Hare Krsna.

 

This post is compleatly off topic. Then I guess we did diverge a bit. LOL. But on a favored topic of mine. The title is a bit misleading too when we read the verse used for support. Your text is also not congruent with the verse either.

 

None the less what you say is very true about todays farmer. How to help is a big broad subject and has many 'ifs' in it as not. We can hope to help by example, show what to do by having in place a working village to give encouragement and support. Tall order but if we do not start for real then never will it be done. A long journey starts with the first step. That is at least the correct idea of DVD and the particulars included.

 

CB-r