How to become Poor?

[Guest guest]

Hari OM:

 

we do find lot of articles how to become rich? this is a counter article for those

 

First why should we become poor?

 

1) All great personalities say the wealth (particularly the attachement to it) is an obstacle towards spiritual progression

 

2) "Fear of becoming poor"- is continuously cultivated by media , by equating low standards of living, sickness, infamy, ignominy, social and family break downs, and all possible bad things with poverty. While low standard of living is a fact , all others are not directly related with poverty and hence not a must have for poor.

 

But because of this continuous programming the poor are becoming dejected and creating all those evils for themselves (make belive prohpecy) while the so called middle-class is working ever harder and harder so that they may not slip into that poverty.

But in spite of this hard working only 10-15% of world population is becoming richer while the remaining are slowly and steadily slipping into poverty. And the cost of energy, food and water is continuously increasing because of rampant misuse, so in short time, even if you have double phd and willing to work for 16 hours per day you won't be able to maintain your current standard of living.

so we need to come out of this vicious circle at the earliest possible time, if we have to progress spiritually. If there is no dependants then it can be a quick and instanenous action.

 

However if you have dependants and family this can't be done immediately because of social pressures that can be bought on the family members. Need to do it in a cautious and planned approach

 

1) Stop all gambling , particularly the stock market, only the super-intelligent brokers and entrepernurs had made money out of it, all average people had only lost there

 

2) Start a slow and steady reduction in standard of living so that by the time you are 50 or 60 your standard of living should be the same as the most poor in your country and you need no income to sustain that

 

3) Save the money created by the reduced standard of living(atleast a big part of it), rather than giving it in charity, since already all doctors, teachers, musicians and spiritual gurus had sold themselves to money we will need money for survival

 

4) Earn reasonable amount through honest means (some even good people are forced to do minor dishonest things because of the fear of becoming poor, don't do that, think about the spiritual cost versus the material benefit), spend as little as possible and save the rest.

 

5) Unfortunately the majority of the population will not understand the need for simple living since they are blinded by the temporary material prosperity, hyped up multiple times by the media. As thousands of people rush towards film industry blinded by the success of few, millions of people are chasing the elusive material propserity seeing the success of few.

 

6) They will realise their folly only when the current system crashes (can be due to energy, political, global warming, population explosion, pollution or a combination of these), but when that happens there may not be nothing much left to be done

 

7) All gurus and great persons give advice (like don't eat too much), but if we ignore that and continue , then nature does not give advice or warning but teaches a harsh corrective lesson (by forcing a high fever so that it is not at all possible to eat)

 

8) So being lucky enough to receive the advice and still not fallen in the fever we should start taking steps to escape from the system, however if we wait first for the society to change, it is highly proable the chance of escape reduces and the chance of falling increases

 

9) Remember always the name of the Lord is the highest benefit that can come to us and we should not loose it for any other benefit.

[Guruvani]

I am a case study in how to become poor.

I have struggled in poverty all my life.

The average American income is said to be about $ 40,000.00 a year.

 

I have been living on roughly a third of that for many years.

 

I live in a run down shack in North Central Florida.

If I had the standard of living and the money of an ISKCON sannaysi, I would would feel like a jet-set Playboy.

[Avinash]

Rather than becoming poor yourself, it is better to earn money and spend it in good cause. So, I do not agree that we should become poor. But I do agree with many things that you have written.

I agree that we should cultivate the habit of simple living even if we have lots of money; we should not use dishonest means of making money.

[Guest guest]

 

Rather than becoming poor yourself, it is better to earn money and spend it in good cause. So, I do not agree that we should become poor. But I do agree with many things that you have written.

I agree that we should cultivate the habit of simple living even if we have lots of money; we should not use dishonest means of making money.

Hari OM:

 

Dear Avainsh Ji,

 

How are you?

 

Even though your statement "spend it in good cause" looks great, for me the only real good cause is my own liberation [ as well i dont have much to spend either]

 

Any other cause like feeding people, clothing them, giving them shelter etc., does not appear good to me, since it just gives them a false sense of comfort for a short time, in which they get more children and push them also in to misery.

 

Yes i can think of two good causes--

1)The spread of spiritual knowledge and removal of material ignorance, however i think it is quite difficult to do myself, and i don't belive in donating any organization for doing this since i doubt their capacity and intention.

 

2) Health care-- particularly which reduces the pain and suffering (not the one which increases the life time), so that people can concentrate on God and the pain doesn't block their concentration

 

Since other points you yourselves had agreed there is no need for arguments.

[Guest guest]

 

I am a case study in how to become poor.

I have struggled in poverty all my life.

The average American income is said to be about $ 40,000.00 a year.

 

I have been living on roughly a third of that for many years.

 

I live in a run down shack in North Central Florida.

If I had the standard of living and the money of an ISKCON sannaysi, I would would feel like a jet-set Playboy.

 

Hari OM:

 

sorry to hear your plight, but are you forced to live like that or you had choosen it voluntarily, if you are forced , then i would just like to say, poverty is not THE worst thing as it is being made to look .

 

[As per the vedas the worst suffering a human can get is death of his child, second is mental derangment of his child,....while poverty comes somewhere in the bottom of the list]

 

BTW i had read "run down shack" in many stories, but don't know what is it, is it some kind of a hut?

[Guruvani]

 

Hari OM:

 

sorry to hear your plight, but are you forced to live like that or you had choosen it voluntarily, if you are forced , then i would just like to say, poverty is not THE worst thing as it is being made to look .

 

[As per the vedas the worst suffering a human can get is death of his child, second is mental derangment of his child,....while poverty comes somewhere in the bottom of the list]

 

BTW i had read "run down shack" in many stories, but don't know what is it, is it some kind of a hut?

 

I guess you could call it a $100,000.00 shack.

It was previously officers quarters in Camp Blanding till they sold off a bunch of them in the 60's. There are a few of these old wooden houses around this area.

Property around this neck of the woods is not cheap.

 

Hey, I love this ol' shack and my lil' 1 1/2 acre of paradise.

 

Paid for...... that is the best part...

[Avinash]

There are many poor people around. Every day, I see so many beggars. They beg others for money, food. Suppose they make money and then take care of themselves from their own hard-earned money rather than begging. Don't you think this would be better?

[Guest guest]

 

There are many poor people around. Every day, I see so many beggars. They beg others for money, food. Suppose they make money and then take care of themselves from their own hard-earned money rather than begging. Don't you think this would be better?

Hari OM:

 

the topic was basically how should i earn/spend and live and not how a beggar should make money and live

 

but still your view is good one, but basically has one assumption:

 

1) This system has infinite resources that anybody willing to work should be able to generate money and live on their own. So if tomorrow the 20 million+ beggars of India decide to stop begging and start working the system will welcome them and should be possible to feed them.

 

i think your view is good as long as that assumption is good, but i being a cynical fellow, don't think that assumption will hold good.

 

The earth has enough food, water, clothing and space for ALL (not just human) living things. But however the resources of earth are plundered or looted for the extra luxurious living of the top 10% population.

 

so in my view if the 20 million beggars decide to work from tomorrow then 20 million workers have to become beggars from next week

 

so basically there is no change in my view, also i fully accept that society can't and won't change the path until it is allowed to run and complete its natural course of action.

 

There are many optimists like you who think that we can do something and create positive impact on this system and sustain it. i hope you would be successful and my best wishes for you, but i don't want to bet on that, my opinion is still to get disengaged from this system at the earliest and start progress in the spiritual side

[Avinash]

Hey, than you for calling me optimist.

My friends, coworkers, and family call me pessimist.

 

I will answer your post in more detail after some time.

[sanatan]

 

I guess you could call it a $100,000.00 shack.

It was previously officers quarters in Camp Blanding till they sold off a bunch of them in the 60's. There are a few of these old wooden houses around this area.

Property around this neck of the woods is not cheap.

 

Hey, I love this ol' shack and my lil' 1 1/2 acre of paradise.

 

Paid for...... that is the best part...

 

In a material sense, your glass is indeed more than half-full, prabhu.

 

A paid-for house and acreage...not many folks have that.

 

Be creative...fix up the house yourself. It's amazing how much in the way of new or perfectly useable building materials people just throw away...not hard to find stuff cheap or free if you look.

[Transcix]

I need money so that I can work at my own writing and expression of my truths, because I believe I can help the world. This is really the only thing I need money for, but I do need money, if only to keep a roof over my head and food in my belly so I can have an extended opportunity to do writing and self work.

 

Donations are accepted.

 

PS - The wise man has an easy time giving and a much harder time receiving.

[Guest guest]

This is an amusing title. I didn't think one had to try to become poor, doesn't providence distribute wealth and poverty?

You don't even have to try on this one, it's easy.

A more suitable title may be, 'How not to be effected by material wealth.'

[hindweb]

an house which you can call own and an acre!

[Avinash]

In spite of many perils of money, I do consider money as important. From my birth till about one year after I started earling, my days and those of my siblings were spent in abject poverty. My father had to struggle a lot because of financial problems and my both parents expired as we did not have enough money for their medical treatment.

 

I often feel guilty because of this reason because my parents had high hopes from me. Since I was academically inclined since my childhood, they had hopes that one day I will be able to solve their financial problems completely. My relatives and neighbours used to give my example to their children. But I could not fulfill anybody's wishes. When my parents were not well, then I could not afford for good treatment for them as I myself was not earning.

 

Now I have more money than I ever imagined I would have. Of course, even now, the way the word 'upper class' is used, I cannot be considered as upper class. But I have enough that I do not have to borrow. When I had money problems, then I used to think - "If I earn only this much, then that will be sufficient." Now, I earn much more than that. But it is good that my lifestyle has remained simple. Since my lifestyle has remained simple, I have more money than is necessary for me.

 

I like spending money in taking care of poor people. Often I read about plight of some poor people. I read how somebody is suffering from some disease and his family does not have enough money for the medical treatment. I read how some mothers are willing to sell their children and the price is such a small amount that I easily spend that much amount in just one day. There was a time when I used to sleep on roadsides. I used to see many others doing the same. Now my financial problems are over. But, I see that there are many who are in that and even worse conditions.

 

I like spending money to bring them some happiness. That gives me happiness in return.

 

Rather than being poor myself, I would like to make money and spend it on good cause.

 

"You cannot help the poor by becoming one of them." - Abraham Lincon

So

[Guest guest]

People live on different levels with different aims of life. Their aim also varies due to their past experience but as they get closer to god, everything becomes clear as crystal. One can not generalize it with a single experience, it can be rather personal views.

 

In this relative world of maya, there are also many unfortunates who can not help their parents financial/emotionally even if they can afford. But still they are justified because they try to do every possible (correct) effort to help their parents. This is what counts when a person is following a righteous path. And, this is applicable for not just helping sick parents, but every action of life.

 

With regards to maya of money, it is very clear that one can not run business houses and get the liberation but can do only charity to poor. By just charity, one does not get liberation.

 

The masterplan of god for creating human being is not just helping poors but liberalization from the bondage of death/birth. One can get one's own liberation only by his own efforts. Needless to say, there are many examples whereby the rich gave up everything to reach their liberation.

 

Money is important for those who live in this civilized society. But to achieve liberation, they will always face the obstacbles due to effects of maya. To be a good man is no doubt a better ideal than to be merely a human animal full of vicious qualities. But it is only a means to an end; it is only a step nearer the goal, not the end or the goal itself. The goal is Self-realization or Moksha. In order to achieve that, one must be good and do good; and you must do more— one must cultivate discrimination, dispassion and a correct attitude to life; one must meditate, do Japa and Kirtan, study scriptures. Then by the grace of God, one will attain the goal!

[gHari]

Them's a lot of smart things that Guest guy said about chillin' the passions into the essentials as much as possible as life moves on. Ain't never too late to get smart.

 

There is an ocean. It is an ocean of delight we cannot imagine. Throwing a Cadillac into that ocean does not even raise the water by one molecule. Taking a Cadillac out does not even lower the shoreline by a molecule. Swimming in that ocean is much easier if we don't have a lot of stuff to carry under our arms.

[Guest guest]

 

In spite of many perils of money, I do consider money as important. From my birth till about one year after I started earling, my days and those of my siblings were spent in abject poverty. My father had to struggle a lot because of financial problems and my both parents expired as we did not have enough money for their medical treatment.

 

I often feel guilty because of this reason because my parents had high hopes from me. Since I was academically inclined since my childhood, they had hopes that one day I will be able to solve their financial problems completely. My relatives and neighbours used to give my example to their children. But I could not fulfill anybody's wishes. When my parents were not well, then I could not afford for good treatment for them as I myself was not earning.

 

Now I have more money than I ever imagined I would have. Of course, even now, the way the word 'upper class' is used, I cannot be considered as upper class. But I have enough that I do not have to borrow. When I had money problems, then I used to think - "If I earn only this much, then that will be sufficient." Now, I earn much more than that. But it is good that my lifestyle has remained simple. Since my lifestyle has remained simple, I have more money than is necessary for me.

 

I like spending money in taking care of poor people. Often I read about plight of some poor people. I read how somebody is suffering from some disease and his family does not have enough money for the medical treatment. I read how some mothers are willing to sell their children and the price is such a small amount that I easily spend that much amount in just one day. There was a time when I used to sleep on roadsides. I used to see many others doing the same. Now my financial problems are over. But, I see that there are many who are in that and even worse conditions.

 

I like spending money to bring them some happiness. That gives me happiness in return.

 

Rather than being poor myself, I would like to make money and spend it on good cause.

 

"You cannot help the poor by becoming one of them." - Abraham Lincon

So

Avinesh,

Sorry to hear of your parents premature departure in your life, it's definitely a traumatic event for a child to experience, but I've no doubt they would be proud of your achievments to lift yourself above the poverty line and especially your discovery of the real wealth of the soul, which is Bhakti, that all the riches in the world can only be a maidservant to.

To know poverty and practice austerity can be a great incentive to help others in similar predicaments, and this also helps all our family and associates past, present and future.

For if we aspire to, or achieve purity, then everyone in our connection will benefit, not only our immediate family members but our extended universal family.

By understanding that everything animate or inanimate belongs to the Lord we can happily dovetail all our energy to serve His purpose and live a life of inner fullfillment, at the same time spreading that good fortune to the lives of others. This is Bhakti, guru-vaisnava seva, service to the whole organic environment, service to Bhagavan, both the means and the real goal of all life.

 

Now you can be wise in the distribution of your wealth, giving to the cause of all causes is the most beneficial if you can define where that is flowing. Then one rupee in that account will outweigh a million dollars in any other account. All the best to you.

[Guest guest]

 

In spite of many perils of money, I do consider money as important. From my birth till about one year after I started earling, my days and those of my siblings were spent in abject poverty. My father had to struggle a lot because of financial problems and my both parents expired as we did not have enough money for their medical treatment.

 

I often feel guilty because of this reason because my parents had high hopes from me. Since I was academically inclined since my childhood, they had hopes that one day I will be able to solve their financial problems completely. My relatives and neighbours used to give my example to their children. But I could not fulfill anybody's wishes. When my parents were not well, then I could not afford for good treatment for them as I myself was not earning.

 

Now I have more money than I ever imagined I would have. Of course, even now, the way the word 'upper class' is used, I cannot be considered as upper class. But I have enough that I do not have to borrow. When I had money problems, then I used to think - "If I earn only this much, then that will be sufficient." Now, I earn much more than that. But it is good that my lifestyle has remained simple. Since my lifestyle has remained simple, I have more money than is necessary for me.

 

I like spending money in taking care of poor people. Often I read about plight of some poor people. I read how somebody is suffering from some disease and his family does not have enough money for the medical treatment. I read how some mothers are willing to sell their children and the price is such a small amount that I easily spend that much amount in just one day. There was a time when I used to sleep on roadsides. I used to see many others doing the same. Now my financial problems are over. But, I see that there are many who are in that and even worse conditions.

 

I like spending money to bring them some happiness. That gives me happiness in return.

 

Rather than being poor myself, I would like to make money and spend it on good cause.

 

"You cannot help the poor by becoming one of them." - Abraham Lincon

So

 

Hari OM:

 

Sorry to hear about your plight.

 

Yes, Giving charity to proper people at proper place and time in proper manner is Satvika

 

As long as you can do this it is fine, otherwise it may become Rajasic or tamasic act , also don't assume that all poor people are good (this is a problem as explained in Mahabharat by the views of Yudishtra and Duryodhana of the world)

 

Most of this forumers would have good karma and would be sattivic, however see the bigger picture of the world

 

Most of the ethical work (like clerks, typist,...) and ethical saving means (banks, small savings...) are fast disappearing, while unethical jobs (pron, mercenaries...) questionable ethical (advertising, credit card collection agents...) are increasing.

 

So at this rate in near future even with a high attitude of positive karma, you may not be left with any ethical jobs, and the question "Ethics or Survival" is very very difficult for anybody to resolve.

 

As a reader of spiritual forums, i think you will agree, the ethical destruction is much more harmful than a physical destruction (and from view of hinduism, physical destruction or death is not a destruction at all, but just change of state)

 

So the most prudent thing to do , as per me , is to attain/aim for liberation before facing that question and before it is too late.

 

So first and foremost your aim should be that, in top of that , if you have time, energy and resources you can spend it on charity (sattvik type)

 

But if you are so much struck in the past (which would be quite same for more than 90% of Indians, who are seeing a rapid material change (the so-called progress) fuelled by speculation and gambling (stock market, dollar exchange rates)), you may loose the big point.

 

Most of the Indian families 30-40 years back were poor (but not necessarily sad or sick), and as i had mentioned earlier healthcare will be a pretty bad obstacle to come out of this circle, another point is even if you had lots of money 30-40 years back, not much health care industries, aka hospitals, to give treatment for your parents. Most of the previous generations took all the pain and suffering as simple good given and tried to sail through, if only they had spent more of their energy in spiritual side , it could have been much better.

 

Anyway what is past is past and no point in thinking too much about, it would be better to ponder about the present and the preceived dangers of future and take action accordingly (ofcourse if you are an optimistic who thinks science/technology/commerce will take care of all our future problems and usher in a golden era, then nothing much to do, except for trying to earn or save as much money as possible, to enjoy the "golden future")