the urge to chant

[Guest guest]

I have chanted the mahamantra in the past, a full sixteen rounds, following the regs. I since dropped the practice because the life-style it demands is impractical and complicated. The rules for eating offering etc...are enough to stress me out every time I need to cook a meal for myself , let alone friends. Then I come to a forum like this and find out about so many other requirements such as diksa, two inititiations and my urge is cured.

Thank you

[mrs.moore]

don't worry. everything will be alright.

[Guest guest]

No Part To Disregard

Volgograd, Russia: September 13, 2004 PM

Tridandisvami Sri Srimad Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja

 

Krsna is adhoksaja. He is beyond our intelligence. The organs of our body are material and so cannot touch Krsna; they cannot touch His hari-katha or glorification.

 

Ones bhakti should be ahautiki, causeless, unconditional and without any interruption. It should flow forth without interruption, as honey flows from a jar. Then ones soul will be happy, otherwise not.

 

By the mercy of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, Srila Rupa Gosvami knew His heart, and he has thus given the definition of bhakti in a new way, covering all the previous definitions:

 

anyabhilasita-sunyam

jnana-karmady-anavrtam

anukulyena krsnanu-

silanam bhaktir uttama

 

["Uttama bhakti is the cultivation of activities that are meant exclusively for the benefit of Sri Krsna, in other words, the uninterrupted flow of service to Him, performed through all endeavors of the body, mind, and speech, and through the expression of various spiritual sentiments (bhavas). It is not covered by jnana (knowledge aimed at impersonal liberation) and karma (reward-seeking activity), yoga or austerities; and it is completely free from all desires other than the aspiration to bring happiness to Krsna." (Sri Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu 1.1.11)]

 

Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura has given a complete explanation of this verse.

 

vasudeve bhagavati

bhakti-yogah prayojitah

janayaty asu vairagyam

jnanam ca yad ahaitukam

 

[“By rendering devotional service unto the Personality of Godhead, Sri Krsna, one immediately acquires causeless knowledge and detachment from the world.” (Srimad-bhagavatam 1.2.7)]

 

If we follow the verse given by Srila Rupa Gosvami and explained by Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura – if we engage in causeless and continuous bhakti under the guidance of Guru and rasika Vaisnavas, in uttama-bhakti, then, very soon, in a couple of days or maybe at once, all kinds of knowledge and realization of all these topics up to sneha, maan, pranaya, raga, anuraga, bhava, mahabhava, aniruddha, mohan, madan will manifest in us. And at once vairagya (renunciation) will come. This is the process of bhakti. You should try to follow all these principles.

 

I am finishing my class here; and you should think over the contents of this class during the night. Don’t sleep – think about what we have given today – the explanation of pure, uttama-bhakti. I know it is very rare if one can follow this. Yet, if you practice again and again, this Vraja-bhakti will come.

 

This has been told in Srimad-bhagavatam 1.1.2:

 

dharmah projjhita-kaitavo 'tra paramo nirmatsaranam satam

vedyam vastavam atra vastu sivadam tapa-trayonmulanam

srimad-bhagavate maha-muni-krte kim va parair isvarah

sadyo hrdy avarudhyate 'tra krtibhih susrusubhis tat-ksanat

 

[“Completely rejecting all religious activities which are materially motivated, this Bhagavata Purana propounds the highest truth, which is understandable by those devotees who are fully pure in heart. The highest truth is reality distinguished from illusion for the welfare of all. Such truth uproots the threefold miseries. This beautiful Bhagavatam, compiled by the great sage Vyasadeva [in his maturity], is sufficient in itself for God realization. What is the need of any other scripture? As soon as one attentively and submissively hears the message of Bhagavatam, by this culture of knowledge the Supreme Lord is established within his heart.”]

 

If you will hear Bhagavatam, with a great desire to hear, Krsna will know this. Then bhakti will come, and Krsna will be controlled and captured in your heart.

[Guest guest]

I have no idea how this post is supposed to address the issues of complication stress and regulative overload.

How scary and totally inaccessible. Boy am i cured.

 

 

No Part To Disregard

Volgograd, Russia: September 13, 2004 PM

Tridandisvami Sri Srimad Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja

 

Krsna is adhoksaja. He is beyond our intelligence. The organs of our body are material and so cannot touch Krsna; they cannot touch His hari-katha or glorification.

 

Ones bhakti should be ahautiki, causeless, unconditional and without any interruption. It should flow forth without interruption, as honey flows from a jar. Then ones soul will be happy, otherwise not.

 

By the mercy of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, Srila Rupa Gosvami knew His heart, and he has thus given the definition of bhakti in a new way, covering all the previous definitions:

 

anyabhilasita-sunyam

jnana-karmady-anavrtam

anukulyena krsnanu-

silanam bhaktir uttama

 

["Uttama bhakti is the cultivation of activities that are meant exclusively for the benefit of Sri Krsna, in other words, the uninterrupted flow of service to Him, performed through all endeavors of the body, mind, and speech, and through the expression of various spiritual sentiments (bhavas). It is not covered by jnana (knowledge aimed at impersonal liberation) and karma (reward-seeking activity), yoga or austerities; and it is completely free from all desires other than the aspiration to bring happiness to Krsna." (Sri Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu 1.1.11)]

 

Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura has given a complete explanation of this verse.

 

vasudeve bhagavati

bhakti-yogah prayojitah

janayaty asu vairagyam

jnanam ca yad ahaitukam

 

[“By rendering devotional service unto the Personality of Godhead, Sri Krsna, one immediately acquires causeless knowledge and detachment from the world.” (Srimad-bhagavatam 1.2.7)]

 

If we follow the verse given by Srila Rupa Gosvami and explained by Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura – if we engage in causeless and continuous bhakti under the guidance of Guru and rasika Vaisnavas, in uttama-bhakti, then, very soon, in a couple of days or maybe at once, all kinds of knowledge and realization of all these topics up to sneha, maan, pranaya, raga, anuraga, bhava, mahabhava, aniruddha, mohan, madan will manifest in us. And at once vairagya (renunciation) will come. This is the process of bhakti. You should try to follow all these principles.

 

I am finishing my class here; and you should think over the contents of this class during the night. Don’t sleep – think about what we have given today – the explanation of pure, uttama-bhakti. I know it is very rare if one can follow this. Yet, if you practice again and again, this Vraja-bhakti will come.

 

This has been told in Srimad-bhagavatam 1.1.2:

 

dharmah projjhita-kaitavo 'tra paramo nirmatsaranam satam

vedyam vastavam atra vastu sivadam tapa-trayonmulanam

srimad-bhagavate maha-muni-krte kim va parair isvarah

sadyo hrdy avarudhyate 'tra krtibhih susrusubhis tat-ksanat

 

[“Completely rejecting all religious activities which are materially motivated, this Bhagavata Purana propounds the highest truth, which is understandable by those devotees who are fully pure in heart. The highest truth is reality distinguished from illusion for the welfare of all. Such truth uproots the threefold miseries. This beautiful Bhagavatam, compiled by the great sage Vyasadeva [in his maturity], is sufficient in itself for God realization. What is the need of any other scripture? As soon as one attentively and submissively hears the message of Bhagavatam, by this culture of knowledge the Supreme Lord is established within his heart.”]

 

If you will hear Bhagavatam, with a great desire to hear, Krsna will know this. Then bhakti will come, and Krsna will be controlled and captured in your heart.

[theist]

 

I have chanted the mahamantra in the past, a full sixteen rounds, following the regs. I since dropped the practice because the life-style it demands is impractical and complicated. The rules for eating offering etc...are enough to stress me out every time I need to cook a meal for myself , let alone friends. Then I come to a forum like this and find out about so many other requirements such as diksa, two inititiations and my urge is cured.

Thank you

 

This problem often arises when beginning temple monk types try to convince others

that they have to adopt the temple's program hook line and sinker into their daily lives. Do not listen to such people even if they have a shaved head and wearing robes.

 

There is no prior qualifications like initiation that need to be completed before we can chant Hare Krsna. You can chant 16 rounds or 64 rounds or one round. That is between you and the Lord. It is no one else's business. Even if you break all four of the regulatve principles you can still begin chanting. It's up to you.

 

As far as food goes if you don't choose to offer your food then at least take a moment and appreciate our dependence on God and thank Him for it. I don't make a formal offering either. I don't even cook meals I just graze all day long a little of this and a handful of that as I go. I do offer incense to a picture of Krsna.

 

We are all at different places in life and need to approach the Lord directly from where we are at this moment.

 

I am going to post the 12th chapter of Bhagavad-gita below. I think there is something there for you as I have found for myself.

 

Hare Krsna

 

Chapter 12: Devotional ServiceBhaktivedanta VedaBase: Bhagavad-gītā As It Is

BG 12.1: Arjuna inquired: Which are considered to be more perfect, those who are always properly engaged in Your devotional service or those who worship the impersonal Brahman, the unmanifested?

BG 12.2: The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: Those who fix their minds on My personal form and are always engaged in worshiping Me with great and transcendental faith are considered by Me to be most perfect.

BG 12.3-4: But those who fully worship the unmanifested, that which lies beyond the perception of the senses, the all-pervading, inconceivable, unchanging, fixed and immovable — the impersonal conception of the Absolute Truth — by controlling the various senses and being equally disposed to everyone, such persons, engaged in the welfare of all, at last achieve Me.

BG 12.5: For those whose minds are attached to the unmanifested, impersonal feature of the Supreme, advancement is very troublesome. To make progress in that discipline is always difficult for those who are embodied.

BG 12.6-7: But those who worship Me, giving up all their activities unto Me and being devoted to Me without deviation, engaged in devotional service and always meditating upon Me, having fixed their minds upon Me, O son of Pṛthā — for them I am the swift deliverer from the ocean of birth and death.

 

 

BG 12.8: Just fix your mind upon Me, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and engage all your intelligence in Me. Thus you will live in Me always, without a doubt.

 

BG 12.9: My dear Arjuna, O winner of wealth, if you cannot fix your mind upon Me without deviation, then follow the regulative principles of bhakti-yoga. In this way develop a desire to attain Me.

 

BG 12.10: If you cannot practice the regulations of bhakti-yoga, then just try to work for Me, because by working for Me you will come to the perfect stage.

 

BG 12.11: If, however, you are unable to work in this consciousness of Me, then try to act giving up all results of your work and try to be self-situated.

 

BG 12.12: If you cannot take to this practice, then engage yourself in the cultivation of knowledge. Better than knowledge, however, is meditation, and better than meditation is renunciation of the fruits of action, for by such renunciation one can attain peace of mind.

 

 

BG 12.13-14: One who is not envious but is a kind friend to all living entities, who does not think himself a proprietor and is free from false ego, who is equal in both happiness and distress, who is tolerant, always satisfied, self-controlled, and engaged in devotional service with determination, his mind and intelligence fixed on Me — such a devotee of Mine is very dear to Me.

BG 12.15: He for whom no one is put into difficulty and who is not disturbed by anyone, who is equipoised in happiness and distress, fear and anxiety, is very dear to Me.

BG 12.16: My devotee who is not dependent on the ordinary course of activities, who is pure, expert, without cares, free from all pains, and not striving for some result, is very dear to Me.

BG 12.17: One who neither rejoices nor grieves, who neither laments nor desires, and who renounces both auspicious and inauspicious things — such a devotee is very dear to Me.

BG 12.18-19: One who is equal to friends and enemies, who is equipoised in honor and dishonor, heat and cold, happiness and distress, fame and infamy, who is always free from contaminating association, always silent and satisfied with anything, who doesn't care for any residence, who is fixed in knowledge and who is engaged in devotional service — such a person is very dear to Me.

BG 12.20: Those who follow this imperishable path of devotional service and who completely engage themselves with faith, making Me the supreme goal, are very, very dear to Me.

[cbrahma]

Thank you. Your response is very encouraging and lifts a burden from my spirit. I so want to chant the names of the Lord.

[theist]

 

Thank you. Your response is very encouraging and lifts a burden from my spirit. I so want to chant the names of the Lord.

 

That is great to hear cbrahma. That urge to chant is as natural as a baby crying for it's mother.

 

Lord Caitanya taught there are no hard and fast rules for the chanting of the Lord's names.

 

At some point we find that some things we do are conducive to chanting Krsna's names and therefore we do them. Somethings can be obstacles so at that point we can choose to give them up and thus draw closer to Krsna.

 

It is a gradual process.

 

Chant and be Happy!

[Guest guest]

The most important thing is your intention and devotion.

 

In Tibet has a nice story that the most important thing is your heart full of love and your devotion. That is all Thakurji is impressed by and becomes greedy to obtain. Once was a farmer he had full faith in a certain devotional Deity in Tibet. He considers this Deity his best friend and all day in the fields in muddy boots or in his small hut he is talking to Thakurji like his friend.

 

So one day he decides he has so much separation anxiety he is going to make the trek to see the Deity. It is many days' walk from his hut. When he gets to the Temple he puts his muddy boots on the altar: having never been to a temple before in his life, as he grew up in the boonies and only live in a shack with Thakurji, animals, and all his worldly belongings in one small room.

 

So he said, "Hello my Friend! Ah how nice You have made this raised platform with many butter lamps for me to use to dry off my muddy boots from my long trek. This is just perfect to dry them off: nice heat from these small lamps and raised so gets air under them to dry out through and through. You knew I was coming; You know everything! You are so gracious and kind." And he began to weep thinking His best friend the Lord is so gracious and merciful and kind.

 

Then he said, "Oh and look at this! You knew I was coming so you prepared so many nice palatable dishes for me!" Having never been in a temple before as he was the archetypal country bumpkin then he thinks that all of the offerings are nice dishes for him that Thakurji has set out knowing he is coming to visit. So he sits down on altar and he begins to eat, tears gliding down face like when Sudama Brahmana visit Sri Krsna in Dwaraka.

 

Then the temple priests come in and see this dirty filthy externally no teeth ragged smelly clothes untouchable person on the altar eating all of the Deity preps and his muddy boots there turned upside down streaming mud and snow all over the altar. The bumpkin's hairs stand on end thinking: "Oh here are the daily associates of the Lord!" and almost he is fainting with devotion; meanwhile the priests are so outraged they get a whip and give him corporal punishment for his offenses, kick him out and throw his boots after him.

 

They are yelling at him also, "Now you have contaminated everything!" And the bumpkin very sadly and confused now has to walk all of the way back to his small shack again. He is like, "Well I guess they were having a bad hair day it must be very stressful to take good care of you my Lord. But thank you all of the nice food you share with me on my visit. Now I can have peaceful death once in my life I saw the Deity my grandmother tell me about that exists far from our little hovel."

 

He is walking along and meanwhile the Deity leaves the Temple and follows the bumpkin. Thakurji wants to live where there is pure devotion, not rules and regs and intellectual cut-and-paste cheat sheet competitions of dry regurgitation of information: the lowest level of intellectual understanding and knowledge (as opposed to analysis and synthesis, the highest).

 

The priests are staring open-mouthed, Thakurji refuse to live in their Temple only He wishes to live where there is pure devotion. Like the bumpkin in KC who read the Bhag Gita upside down and all words blurred by his tears. Thakurji refuse ever to go back to the Temple where His devotee was abused.

 

When the bumpkin went into his house and then turned to shut the door then when he turned around he saw Thakurji. And Thakurji refuse to budge from that spot. So they had to build all new temple outside that guy's house. And

is there to this day; it is a famous oral history in Tibet.

 

So even the whole concept of "chanting": what is that all about? What does the Lord want or need with that? He has limitless angels devas singing his glories, Ananta never stops singing His glories. All he wants is our very sweet hearts, He is greedy for that only. He only wants very soft, very sweet, very palatable like the butter He steals. That is all he wants, according to the oral histories of GV tradition storytelling masters as well as the Tibetan.

 

Aum Tat Sat.

[mrs.moore]

that's a good story!

[Guest guest]

this is one of the most impractical stories i have ever heard. Nothing like this can ever happen in real life. Dieties might be moving in the previous age, but this age it does not.

[theist]

 

this is one of the most impractical stories i have ever heard. Nothing like this can ever happen in real life. Dieties might be moving in the previous age, but this age it does not.

 

LOL. You may take the story as just an illustration of the principle that it seeks to impress upon the hearers.

[Guruvani]

Every time I read something from Narayana Maharaja I just get so discouraged and depressed that I wish I had never heard of Hare Krishna.

 

If Narayana Maharaja would have been the one to bring Krishna consciousness to the western world I never would have accepted the idea of Krishna consciousness.

 

I would have just kept doing yoga, LSD and herb tea.

 

The words of Narayana Maharaja make Krishna consciousness seem impossible and a useless waste of time for anybody who can't give up his wife, his children and his job.

 

Hearing Narayana Maharaja makes me hate Krishna and everything that the Gaudiya religion stands for.

 

Why is that?

 

I don't get that feeling when I read the books of Srila Prabhupada.

[hindweb]

In this age, chanting is the only way to Moksha...

[Shakti-Fan]

 

Every time I read something from Narayana Maharaja I just get so discouraged and depressed that I wish I had never heard of Hare Krishna.

 

The words of Narayana Maharaja make Krishna consciousness seem impossible and a useless waste of time for anybody who can't give up his wife, his children and his job.

 

Hearing Narayana Maharaja makes me hate Krishna and everything that the Gaudiya religion stands for.

 

Why is that?

 

I don't get that feeling when I read the books of Srila Prabhupada.

 

Why is that?

The effects of Vaisnava aparadha directed against that sadhu. Although that aparadha is based on misconceptions, you are still getting the reaction.

 

 

I don't get that feeling when I read the books of Srila Prabhupada.

The psychologists call it cognative dissonance, and it is manifesting as selective reading of Srila Prabhupada's books. What is your tactic when you come accross a purport where Srila Prabhupada says that one should take sannyasa at the age of 50? Block it out, skip the passage, pretend that you didn't see it? I'm in the same condition, but those purports should burn our hearts because despite hearing so many instructions on the matter we are attached to material things.

When Srila Prabhupada said, "my guru maharaja, he saved me", what was the context? The context was that his guru was coming to him in dreams and "forcing" him to come out of household life and take sannyasa. So we say at Vyasa Puja, "Prabhupada saved me", and then we go home and engage in sense gratification. Also Srila Narayana Maharaja played an integral part in the unfolding of Srila Prabhupada's sannyasa initiation lila and that is an historical fact. Srila Narayana Maharaja has been a sanyassi for almost 55 years. Yes, its very heavy and sometimes I also cannot tolerate my own fear of what I see as the burning fire of renunciation. But one should be honest and admit their own fallen position. Household life is a compromise, but not for older men. For older men it is abject degradation and spiritual failure. If we don't believe this then how will we ever get out of that deep dark well? Krsna is very tricky. I would be careful about what you say such as "I just get so discouraged and depressed that I wish I had never heard of Hare Krishna", just because a sadhu is preaching that this world is a cesspool and we should give it up as offering to Krsna. Remember that Krsna as paramatma is the "source of memory, knowledge and forgetfullness. Even the karmis know, "be careful what you ask for, you just might get it." Fools rush in (to Vaisnava aparadha) where angels fear to tread. Be an angel and have sweet dreams. "Be careful you are dealing with Krsna."

[Guruvani]

 

The effects of Vaisnava aparadha directed against that sadhu. Although that aparadha is based on misconceptions, you are still getting the reaction

 

I gave Narayana Maharaja the same courtesy as I gave Sridhar Maharaja to hear him out and read his sayings.

I had no prior prejudice.

I am an open minded person.

 

He just doesn't "ring my bell".

There is just too much harshness and bitterness there.

 

I don't think he is as realized as his followers give him credit for.

 

Whenever I think of him posing as a gopi in front of Jadarani so she can paint some portrait, I just get the willies.

(he has done that)

[Shakti-Fan]

 

Whenever I think of him posing as a gopi in front of Jadarani so she can paint some portrait, I just get the willies.

(he has done that)

 

 

Govinda dasi in Honolulu on Jan 26, 2003 (pg.3)

 

 

 

"...He would walk in, and he would even pose for us. Sometimes he posed, he showed us how a dhoti was wrapped one day. He wrapped a dhoti—an elaborate dhoti, the kind Krsna wears—and stood in a threefold posture."

 

Devotee: The early paintings have a look of pastel, and the colors of Krsna’s form are so, so attractive.<u1:p></u1:p>

<u1:p></u1:p>

Govinda dasi: They’re full of bhakti. When the spiritual master is present, he has the Midas touch. He touches anything and it’s surcharged with bhakti. He touched us, and we were infused with bhakti. Look at the stuff we did; we were 20-year-old kids, green behind the ears. It was because his energy was working through us; he was using us, we were willing warm bodies, and he guided us from within, he guided us from without, he watched over us, and he was over our shoulder. For example, that original purple Gita, I was staying with Srila Prabhupada in LA, and I drew the cover picture for it. He would come shuffling into my room and look over my shoulder while I was drawing the picture. Macmillan cut the book down; he didn’t like that. He wanted it to be with all the purports, so the next one was. So he wasn’t happy with the fact that they wanted not so much repetition. <u1:p></u1:p>

<u1:p></u1:p>

And then so far as the Teachings of Lord Caitanya, you mentioned that earlier, because that’s going to be on the press next. That book, we did the drawings while we were living with Srila Prabhupada. Srila Prabhupada described how the drawings should look. We were very poor in those days, so we didn’t do full color; we did black-and-white drawings. <u1:p></u1:p>

<u1:p></u1:p>

I had never been to India, and I had never been to Jagannath Puri temple. And there’s a drawing in there of Jagannath up on an altar, for those of you who have seen it. Maybe a lot of you haven’t even seen it. But Srila Prabhupada described in detail how Jagannath was up on this altar, how the room was dark—it’s dark in those big old Orissan temples—and how the pujari is sitting there and receiving the flowers. He would tell us each step of the way for these drawings. And the same way with the early paintings of Jadurani. Jadurani painted those paintings in the next room, Srila Prabhupada was living in the New York apartment, he was living in the bedroom—he did everything in this one room—and in his living room, me and Gaurasaundara and Jadurani sat and did drawings all day. He would walk in, and he would even pose for us. Sometimes he posed, he showed us how a dhoti was wrapped one day. He wrapped a dhoti—an elaborate dhoti, the kind Krsna wears—and stood in a threefold posture. His favorite pose was Lord Nrsimhadeva. He would come in and roar, and you would see the whites of his eyes. [devotees: “Haribol!”] And we were just new kids—but he was actually really into Nrsimha-lila big time—but he showed us each step of the way. We can’t think that ‘We did this,’ anymore than we can think ‘Hayagriva edited this, Hayagriva did this.’ <u1:p></u1:p>

<u1:p></u1:p>

Srila Prabhupada was working through us all, and the people who came to think that ‘I am the doer’ and ‘I am doing this’—and I know a few, and they’re not around anymore. One of them was my ex-husband. Srila Prabhupada said, “He suffered from too much intelligence.” He left because he was brilliant. He thought that he knew more than his guru. Srila Prabhupada said, “He’s suffering from too much intelligence; he thinks he knows more than his guru.” He was brilliant, there’s no question; he wrote books at 21 years old. But that doesn’t cut it. Srila Prabhupada came from Krsna-loka to write some books, print some books; and the fact that they have been altered is the worst thing that could happen. Everything else will be lost in the wash, but his books… He used to say that “Even if we lose all the temples, you have my books.” But we don’t have his books. My point is, his books have been—until the past year—completely lost, except in my bookcase, and so forth. So this is a very significant thing, that he oversaw the production with the artists and the writers, and he infused the work with his own bhakti. That’s why those early writings and those early paintings are so… shining. I look at this painting, and I don’t know how I did it. I look at that one, and I don’t know…[note: Srila Prabhupada’s room in New Navadvipa is decorated with several paintings done by Govinda dasi and other artists directly under Srila Prabhupada’s supervision.] I don’t have the same mood now; I think none of us really do, as we did while Srila Prabhupada was present.

Devotee: The early paintings have a look of pastel, and the colors of Krsna’s form are so, so attractive.<u1:p></u1:p>

<u1:p></u1:p>

Govinda dasi: They’re full of bhakti. When the spiritual master is present, he has the Midas touch. He touches anything and it’s surcharged with bhakti. He touched us, and we were infused with bhakti. Look at the stuff we did; we were 20-year-old kids, green behind the ears. It was because his energy was working through us; he was using us, we were willing warm bodies, and he guided us from within, he guided us from without, he watched over us, and he was over our shoulder. For example, that original purple Gita, I was staying with Srila Prabhupada in LA, and I drew the cover picture for it. He would come shuffling into my room and look over my shoulder while I was drawing the picture. Macmillan cut the book down; he didn’t like that. He wanted it to be with all the purports, so the next one was. So he wasn’t happy with the fact that they wanted not so much repetition. <u1:p></u1:p>

<u1:p></u1:p>

And then so far as the Teachings of Lord Caitanya, you mentioned that earlier, because that’s going to be on the press next. That book, we did the drawings while we were living with Srila Prabhupada. Srila Prabhupada described how the drawings should look. We were very poor in those days, so we didn’t do full color; we did black-and-white drawings. <u1:p></u1:p>

<u1:p></u1:p>

I had never been to India, and I had never been to Jagannath Puri temple. And there’s a drawing in there of Jagannath up on an altar, for those of you who have seen it. Maybe a lot of you haven’t even seen it. But Srila Prabhupada described in detail how Jagannath was up on this altar, how the room was dark—it’s dark in those big old Orissan temples—and how the pujari is sitting there and receiving the flowers. He would tell us each step of the way for these drawings. And the same way with the early paintings of Jadurani. Jadurani painted those paintings in the next room, Srila Prabhupada was living in the New York apartment, he was living in the bedroom—he did everything in this one room—and in his living room, me and Gaurasaundara and Jadurani sat and did drawings all day. He would walk in, and he would even pose for us. Sometimes he posed, he showed us how a dhoti was wrapped one day. He wrapped a dhoti—an elaborate dhoti, the kind Krsna wears—and stood in a threefold posture.His favorite pose was Lord Nrsimhadeva. He would come in and roar, and you would see the whites of his eyes. [devotees: “Haribol!”] And we were just new kids—but he was actually really into Nrsimha-lila big time—but he showed us each step of the way. We can’t think that ‘We did this,’ anymore than we can think ‘Hayagriva edited this, Hayagriva did this.’ <u1:p></u1:p>

<u1:p></u1:p>

Srila Prabhupada was working through us all, and the people who came to think that ‘I am the doer’ and ‘I am doing this’—and I know a few, and they’re not around anymore. One of them was my ex-husband. Srila Prabhupada said, “He suffered from too much intelligence.” He left because he was brilliant. He thought that he knew more than his guru. Srila Prabhupada said, “He’s suffering from too much intelligence; he thinks he knows more than his guru.” He was brilliant, there’s no question; he wrote books at 21 years old. But that doesn’t cut it. Srila Prabhupada came from Krsna-loka to write some books, print some books; and the fact that they have been altered is the worst thing that could happen. Everything else will be lost in the wash, but his books… He used to say that “Even if we lose all the temples, you have my books.” But we don’t have his books. My point is, his books have been—until the past year—completely lost, except in my bookcase, and so forth. So this is a very significant thing, that he oversaw the production with the artists and the writers, and he infused the work with his own bhakti. That’s why those early writings and those early paintings are so… shining. I look at this painting, and I don’t know how I did it. I look at that one, and I don’t know…[note: Srila Prabhupada’s room in New Navadvipa is decorated with several paintings done by Govinda dasi and other artists directly under Srila Prabhupada’s supervision.] I don’t have the same mood now; I think none of us really do, as we did while Srila Prabhupada was present.

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[theist]

C'mon guys.. this thread belongs to guest who is seeking a clear path to chanting the holy names. Don't hijack the thread please.

[cbrahma]

I've seen so much nonsense and rank corruption continue under cover of 'vaishanava aparadha'. If we are supposed to turn a blind eye to bogus gurus and criminal behavior under that rubric then it's no wonder ISKCON has managed to be as corrupt in a few decades as it took other religions like the Catholic Church centuries to accomplish.

I want to see the context of Prabhupada's exhortation that we should take sanyasa at 50. He also says you don't have to give up your job, that everything can be dovetailed.

 

 

The effects of Vaisnava aparadha directed against that sadhu. Although that aparadha is based on misconceptions, you are still getting the reaction.

 

The psychologists call it cognative dissonance, and it is manifesting as selective reading of Srila Prabhupada's books. What is your tactic when you come accross a purport where Srila Prabhupada says that one should take sannyasa at the age of 50? Block it out, skip the passage, pretend that you didn't see it? I'm in the same condition, but those purports should burn our hearts because despite hearing so many instructions on the matter we are attached to material things.

When Srila Prabhupada said, "my guru maharaja, he saved me", what was the context? The context was that his guru was coming to him in dreams and "forcing" him to come out of household life and take sannyasa. So we say at Vyasa Puja, "Prabhupada saved me", and then we go home and engage in sense gratification. Also Srila Narayana Maharaja played an integral part in the unfolding of Srila Prabhupada's sannyasa initiation lila and that is an historical fact. Srila Narayana Maharaja has been a sanyassi for almost 55 years. Yes, its very heavy and sometimes I also cannot tolerate my own fear of what I see as the burning fire of renunciation. But one should be honest and admit their own fallen position. Household life is a compromise, but not for older men. For older men it is abject degradation and spiritual failure. If we don't believe this then how will we ever get out of that deep dark well? Krsna is very tricky. I would be careful about what you say such as "I just get so discouraged and depressed that I wish I had never heard of Hare Krishna", just because a sadhu is preaching that this world is a cesspool and we should give it up as offering to Krsna. Remember that Krsna as paramatma is the "source of memory, knowledge and forgetfullness. Even the karmis know, "be careful what you ask for, you just might get it." Fools rush in (to Vaisnava aparadha) where angels fear to tread. Be an angel and have sweet dreams. "Be careful you are dealing with Krsna."

[Shakti-Fan]

I am hereby requesting a cease fire agreement on this thread.

[Guruvani]

 

 

Govinda dasi in Honolulu on Jan 26, 2003 (pg.3)

 

 

 

"...He would walk in, and he would even pose for us. Sometimes he posed, he showed us how a dhoti was wrapped one day. He wrapped a dhoti—an elaborate dhoti, the kind Krsna wears—and stood in a threefold posture."

 

 

 

So, Prabhupada showed them how a dhoti is supposed be wrapped.

Maybe he showed them some idea of the posture of Krishna.

Maybe he made a funny face pretending to be Lord Nrsingha.

 

To me, that is a lot different than Narayana Maharaja telling Jadurani to look at him and imagine that he is Radharani and paint some portrait of Jadurani on a throne with Krishna begging at her feet.

 

In the portrait that Narayana Maharaja posed for, he was supposed to be Radharani and so he was making some posture and some pose and Jadurani was supposed to see him as Radharani, not as a bearded old sannyasi.

 

Prabhupada showing his artists what the posture of Krishna should be, is nothing close to Narayana Maharaja pretending to be Radharani.

[cbrahma]

Good because all you've done is confuse and discourage me, ironically in the name of the spiritual master. Prabhpada in true Gaudiya tradition removed all ritual obstacles, allowing people to follow what they could. In fact so does Krsna in the Bhagavad-Gita offer so many alternatives and He is the Spiritual Master of all spiritual masters. There is no room for the smarta-brahmana self-righteousness which is so common in ISCKON. There you made me say it.

 

 

I am hereby requesting a cease fire agreement on this thread.

[mrs.moore]

yeah but if maharaj just demonstrated the position he wanted the pose to be painted, that doesn't mean he was acting like a dressed up camp gopi sahajiya does it. he probably just said - you should paint her sitting something like this.

 

life is so short. we will all die very soon.

[mrs.moore]

 

Good because all you've done is confuse and discourage me, ironically in the name of the spiritual master.

 

just follow prabhupada if you want! that''s cool.

 

 

Prabhpada in true Gaudiya tradition removed all ritual obstacles, allowing people to follow what they could. In fact so does Krsna in the Bhagavad-Gita offer so many alternatives and He is the Spiritual Master of all spiritual masters.

 

keep it simple..:pray:..

[theist]

 

 

 

 

keep it simple..:pray:..

 

Yes by all means.

 

There is this acronym KISS for Keep It Simple Stupid.

 

I prefer to say KISS means Keep It Simple Sadhaka.

 

Hearing and chanting. Developing the divine qualties of humility,patience, empathy for others, service to help alleviate that suffering etc.

 

Not so much empahsis on rituals and the rites of any religious tradition?

[Beggar]

 

Prabhupada showing his artists what the posture of Krishna should be, is nothing close to Narayana Maharaja pretending to be Radharani.

Say homeboy, what if Prabhupada posed as Srimati Radharani for one of his artists in the old days? I don't know one way or the other but if you are wrong then you get the reaction for that offense even if you didn't mean it. I wouldn't say anything like that unless I knew for sure.