Vegan vs vegetarian

[cbrahma]

Whether he ate sausages at one time, it is documented that he was vegetarian at another. Let's face it, the history of vegetarian cultures is quite bellicose riddled with wars. It's no guarantee of spiritual anthing. Prabhupada admitted 'pigeons are vegetarian'.

[Avinash]

 

Prabhupada admitted 'pigeons are vegetarian'.

 

From what I have read about pigeons, it seems they are vegetarian. But I do not know anough about them to be sure. However, I can say that cows are vegetarian.

[cbrahma]

I can say with absolute certainty I've never seen cows eating meat.

 

 

From what I have read about pigeons, it seems they are vegetarian. But I do not know anough about them to be sure. However, I can say that cows are vegetarian.

[Avinash]

 

I can say with absolute certainty I've never seen cows eating meat.

 

Correct. That is why I say that cows are vegetarian. What about pigeons? Do they eat meat?

[Guest guest]

True I am not familiar with your path and thank you for the clarification. Could you explain it a little clearer though?

[koolhead]

I got this from a jainism preachings..:::

 

 

 

 

Violence of every type should be completely forbidden. Mental

tortures by way of harsh words, actions, and any type of bodily

injuries should also be avoided. Even thinking evil of some one is

considered violence in Jainism.

 

Practically, it is impossible to survive without killing or injuring

some of the smallest living beings. Some lives are killed even

when we breathe, drink water, or eat food. Therefore, Jainism

says that minimum killing of the lowest form of life should be our

ideal for survival.

 

In the universe, there are different forms of life, such as,

human beings, animals, insects, plants, bacteria, and

even smaller lives which cannot be seen even through the most

powerful microscopes. Jainism has classified all the living

beings according to their senses as follows:

 

five senses - human, animals, birds, heavenly, hellish beings

four senses - flies, bees, etc.

three senses - ants, lice, etc.

two senses - worms, leaches, etc.

one sense - vegetables, water, air, earth, fire etc.

 

The five sense are, touch, taste, smell, sight, and hearing.

 

It is more painful if a life of the higher forms (more than one sense)

are killed. All non-vegetarian food is made by killing a living

being with two or more senses.</pre>

[theist]

 

Why was my previous post deleted?

 

I mean isn't it hypocritical not to eat meat because is some sort of 'sin', but instead eat vegetables?

 

The plants are also alive and some research points out that they might have some sort of feelings as well...

 

Yes, vegetables also have a soul that animates the vegetable life form. Bacteria also have a soul. However you must eat something and you must also cleanse your mouth of the foul bacteria that build up there.

 

Fruitarians cause the least harm. Eating nuts fruit and vine vegetables does not kill the host plant. But yet when a fruitarian approaches a tree to harvest the fruit and nuts he also steps on so many insects.

 

So no one in the material world can claim to be completely harmless. The devotees of Krsna offer their food first to Krsna and if offered in the right consciousness Krsna accepts it and thus there is no sin. This is Krsna's mercy in trying to give us a way out of this dilema.

 

Also it is not so much the eating of meat that is sinful as it is the suffering caused to the animals. Every learn anything about factory farming and what the animals go through so some people can taste their bloody flesh? If not google on factory farming and prepare to be shocked.

 

There is not such a level of suffering caused to a head of lettuce.

[theist]

On Jesus eating fish as far as I know there is only one referrence to Jesus eating fish in the Bible and that was after the resurrection when he appeared to his disciples and they thought he was some kind of ghost and he picked up a piece of whatever they were eating and ate it to prove to them the form he was appearing as was different from that of a ghost. The Bible says he ate fish at that point and it may have been as the disciples were fishing at the time. One bite...one time is all I have ever seen but these christian meateaters make it sound like he was roasting lambs everyday.

 

He angered the Jewish temple priests to such an extent that they demanded he be crucified by driving those that were selling animals for sacrifice out of the temple. That was the last straw for those fanatic religious demons.

 

At some point in one's spiritual progression from one life to the next the individual MUST develop a sense of compassion and mercy towards other living beings irregardless of one's professed path.

 

Animal killing for food is savage and barbaric.

[cbrahma]

Jesus was an Old Testament Jew. Judaism doesn't legislate vegetarianism.

The Gospels recount his Passover or sader meal (the Last Supper).

One of the items on that menu is lamb.

Let's not forget that even in Vedic culture animals were sacrificed and eaten.

 

 

On Jesus eating fish as far as I know there is only one referrence to Jesus eating fish in the Bible and that was after the resurrection when he appeared to his disciples and they thought he was some kind of ghost and he picked up a piece of whatever they were eating and ate it to prove to them the form he was appearing as was different from that of a ghost. The Bible says he ate fish at that point and it may have been as the disciples were fishing at the time. One bite...one time is all I have ever seen but these christian meateaters make it sound like he was roasting lambs everyday.

 

He angered the Jewish temple priests to such an extent that they demanded he be crucified by driving those that were selling animals for sacrifice out of the temple. That was the last straw for those fanatic religious demons.

 

At some point in one's spiritual progression from one life to the next the individual MUST develop a sense of compassion and mercy towards other living beings irregardless of one's professed path.

 

Animal killing for food is savage and barbaric.

[theist]

 

Jesus was an Old Testament Jew. Judaism doesn't legislate vegetarianism.

The Gospels recount his Passover or sader meal (the Last Supper).

One of the items on that menu is lamb.

Let's not forget that even in Vedic culture animals were sacrificed and eaten.

 

Yeah yeah Yeah. I have heard this speculation a million times. What I posted was at least found in the Bible I didn't have to let my mind imagine facts not in evidence as you did.

 

What gall you have just assuming what Jesus had on his plate.

 

And the animal sacrifice in the Vedic culture I also consider barbaric and savage. They even sacrificed "man/animals". Whoever the unfortunate guys were I have no idea. Probably some deep forest tribe of some kind but who knows. Barbaric and savage.

 

You sound like an animal killer yourself. Well even animal killers can chant Hare Krsna or any name of God and make advancement. And when that advancement is made they will see the evil in slaughtering animals. Especially when alternatives are so widely available.

[cbrahma]

 

What gall you have just assuming what Jesus had on his plate.

 

The items of a passover meal are not up for speculation.

 

 

Seder Table

(Assemble around table -- don't eat yet.) All recline around the SEDER table, because reclining around the table was a sign of a free man. Everything on the table has a significance.

On the SEDER plate there is:

• Hard boiled egg - symbol of the suffering and oppression in Egypt. Everything else in boiling water becomes soft or disintegrates. But an egg becomes hard, like the Israelites. The more it is boiled, the harder it becomes. An egg also symbolizes New Life.
  
• Roasted shankbone of lamb - reminds them there had to be blood sacrificed to save their lives.
  
• Bitter herbs - horseradish - reminds them they were servants to slavery.
  
• Greens - parsley, celery - symbol of coming of Spring which brings hope.
  
• Salt water - reminds them of the tears they cried in Egypt.
  
• Haroset - nut, apple, cinnamon, wine mixture which has the appearance of straw in remembrance of the mortar used to build the Treasure Cities for Pharaoh. It is symbolic of the hope of freedom that enabled their ancestors to withstand the bitterness of slavery.
  
• Matzah - the unleavened bread that reminds them of the haste with which they left Egypt.

After the drinking of wine and washing of the hands the greens are dipped into the salt water and eaten.

Then the bread on the SEDER plate is broken. Half remains on the plate, half is hidden for the dessert. This is to keep the interest of the children. Children are to find it and keep it till the end of the meal when the leader redeems it in exchange for the promise of gifts. Throughout the service many things are incorporated to keep the interest of the children. The most important thing is the telling of the story of the Exodus to the children.

[theist]

Jesus was known to not follow the Jewish laws. The example of tossing the merchants who were selling animals to be sacrificed out of the temple grounds is one example. Healing on the Sabbath is another. His disciples not washing properly (according to Jewish religious tradition) before their meal Refusing to sanction the stoning of the woman caught in adultry, "He that is without sin should cast the first stone." The Jewish religionists walked away with their tails tucked under their butts. To the woman he admonished her,"Go your way and sin no more."

 

And now there are people like you that want to drag Jesus back into the abyss of Hebrew law. You use his name but I don't sense the the presence of Christ in anything you say so I cannot accept you as his follower. You speak as a churchianity man, that I accept you as.

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

I can say with absolute certainty I've never seen cows eating meat.

Well where have you been - they have been feeding cows to cows for years - they feed blood to baby cows - at least if milk from cows is offered to God - with sincere love - there may be some hope for these cows - but - without that - there is nothing but some hideous reflection of 'natural' in all of this.

 

Yes it is prudent to quit eating animals - as even the bible asks this of us - there is that one [there are more] verse in Isaiah 'Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good' - that means that we take our food as a by-product of an animal [like butter and honey] - not in the form of the animal itself.

 

As you can see in this video - one can have a meat like substance and not have all the hormones and diseases and other nasty things found in meat [not only the karma] - if one is lacto one can use butter oil to impart the gamey taste to the soy chunks - when made correctly - they are very close to 'beef' in fact -we've given them to people who are not vegetarians and they think it's some kind of meat - they are surprised to learn it's soy - so have a look at it - what you see in the wok is only 2.5 cups dry soy chunks [the cost here is $4.40 a kilo dry] - soy has much more in volume when moistened and cooked - it is less than 1/10 the cost of flesh:

 

[Yes these two are the same i messed up and pasted it in twice and cannot delete one now and - please press the play button on the tool bar not in the center of the image]

 

 

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtiKGxlL8kY" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" height="350" width="425"> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtiKGxlL8kY" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" height="350" width="425">I'll do a more comprehensive video on cooking these soy chunks if others want to see it....

[cbrahma]

I am a lacto-vegetarian. It is difficult to avoid eggs, but I try.

I am a little confused about the ethics of vegans who say that getting commercial milk is enabling calf slaughter.

 

 

Well where have you been - they have been feeding cows to cows for years - they feed blood to baby cows - at least if milk from cows is offered to God - with sincere love - there may be some hope for these cows - but - without that - there is nothing but some hideous reflection of 'natural' in all of this.

 

Yes it is prudent to quit eating animals - as even the bible asks this of us - there is that one [there are more] verse in Isaiah 'Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good' - that means that we take our food as a by-product of an animal [like butter and honey] - not in the form of the animal itself.

 

As you can see in this video - one can have a meat like substance and not have all the hormones and diseases and other nasty things found in meat [not only the karma] - if one is lacto one can use butter oil to impart the gamey taste to the soy chunks - when made correctly - they are very close to 'beef' in fact -we've given them to people who are not vegetarians and they think it's some kind of meat - they are surprised to learn it's soy - so have a look at it - what you see in the wok is only 2.5 cups dry soy chunks [the cost here is $4.40 a kilo dry] - soy has much more in volume when moistened and cooked - it is less than 1/10 the cost of flesh:

 

[Yes these two are the same i messed up and pasted it in twice and cannot delete one now and - please press the play button on the tool bar not in the center of the image]

 

 

<EMBED src=""http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtiKGxlL8kY width=425 height=350 type=application/x-shockwave-flash wmode="transparent"> <EMBED src=""http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtiKGxlL8kY width=425 height=350 type=application/x-shockwave-flash wmode="transparent">I'll do a more comprehensive video on cooking these soy chunks if others want to see it....

[theist]

 

I am a lacto-vegetarian. It is difficult to avoid eggs, but I try.

I am a little confused about the ethics of vegans who say that getting commercial milk is enabling calf slaughter.

 

MILK SUCKS ...

FOR ANIMALS:

Corporate-owned factories where cows are warehoused in huge sheds and treated like milk machines have replaced most small family farms. With genetic manipulation and intensive production technologies, it is common for modern dairy cows to produce 100 pounds of milk a day— 10 times more than they would produce in nature. To keep milk production as high as possible, farmers artificially inseminate cows every year. Growth hormones and unnatural milking schedules cause dairy cows' udders to become painful and so heavy that they sometimes drag on the ground, resulting in frequent infections and overuse of antibiotics. Cows— like all mammals— make milk to feed their own babies— not humans.

Male calves, the "byproducts" of the dairy industry, endure 14 to 17 weeks of torment in veal crates so small that they can't even turn around. Female calves often replace their old, worn-out mothers, or are slaughtered soon after birth for the rennet in their stomachs (an ingredient of most commercial cheeses). They are often kept in tiny crates or tethered in stalls for the first few months of their lives, only to grow up to become "milk machines" like their mothers.

 

 

http://www.milksucks.com/index2.asp

[cbrahma]

My understanding is that milk products are a mainstay of vaisnava food offerings. What does one do if one does not own a dairy cow?

 

 

http://www.milksucks.com/index2.asp

[theist]

 

My understanding is that milk products are a mainstay of vaisnava food offerings. What does one do if one does not own a dairy cow?

 

Krsna accepts foodstuff offered with love. He says in Gita a fruit flower leaf or water. Don't confuse vaisnava cooking with Indian food. Vaisnava cooking means with love for Krsna.

 

Srila Prabhupada said Indian styles of cooking and dress are not important.

 

And for those of us who are not on the vaisnava level then I will choose ahimsa and the principles of cow protection over Indian cooking with dairy products and the insane violence of commercial milk any day.

[cbrahma]

Prabhupada: This is my proposal. If I have fresh air and free movement and sunshine then I can come back in a year… Then when I am sane man I shall come back to either Mayapur or Vrindavana or Bombay… You have tried doctor, kaviraja, medicine, everything. Everything has failed. Now, suppose I am taking the risk of death, what is wrong?… I will take milk. Milk is available everywhere. If I live, that’s all right. If I don’t live, that doesn’t matter.

 

 

 

Krsna accepts foodstuff offered with love. He says in Gita a fruit flower leaf or water. Don't confuse vaisnava cooking with Indian food. Vaisnava cooking means with love for Krsna.

 

Srila Prabhupada said Indian styles of cooking and dress are not important.

 

And for those of us who are not on the vaisnava level then I will choose ahimsa and the principles of cow protection over Indian cooking with dairy products and the insane violence of commercial milk any day.

[Redsox]

 

The plants are also alive and some research points out that they might have some sort of feelings as well...

 

Plants don't have feelings. They don't have a nervous system. Their reactions to light and other such things are due to light induced chemical mechanisms that trigger them to spontaneously grow in one direction vs another.

 

Some plants have evolved in such a way that if you eat them, you are helping them. Vegetables have seeds, animals eat fruits and vegetables and can't digest the seeds. The animal moves to another location to do its thing where it evacuates the seeds and this helps disperse seeds.

 

Is it good to be a vegetarian? Ofcourse it is. The energy that comes from the sun gets lost as you go up the food chain. If you are a herbivore, you eat less and gain more energy. If you are a carnivore you have to eat more to get the same amount of energy.

 

Ofcourse, hindus are not vegetarians for these reasons, but scientifically it is favorable to be a vegetarian, but I have a question. how do you get your protein?

[cbrahma]

This is news to me. I thought meat was a more efficient food source, which is why carnivores eat less often. That makes sense because it's harder to get food that runs away from you and has to be killed. Herbivores eat all day long (graze).

 

 

Plants don't have feelings. They don't have a nervous system. Their reactions to light and other such things are due to light induced chemical mechanisms that trigger them to spontaneously grow in one direction vs another.

 

Some plants have evolved in such a way that if you eat them, you are helping them. Vegetables have seeds, animals eat fruits and vegetables and can't digest the seeds. The animal moves to another location to do its thing where it evacuates the seeds and this helps disperse seeds.

 

Is it good to be a vegetarian? Ofcourse it is. The energy that comes from the sun gets lost as you go up the food chain. If you are a herbivore, you eat less and gain more energy. If you are a carnivore you have to eat more to get the same amount of energy.

[theist]

 

Prabhupada: This is my proposal. If I have fresh air and free movement and sunshine then I can come back in a year… Then when I am sane man I shall come back to either Mayapur or Vrindavana or Bombay… You have tried doctor, kaviraja, medicine, everything. Everything has failed. Now, suppose I am taking the risk of death, what is wrong?… I will take milk. Milk is available everywhere. If I live, that’s all right. If I don’t live, that doesn’t matter.

He also liked bitter melon but myself I can't stand it. Following guru doesn't mean you stop being an individual.

 

You can take a good hard look at the results of commercial milk dairy and allow your conscience to dictate your response.

[theist]

 

how do you get your protein?

 

Protein for me is no problem. Lentils contain 49 gms of protein per cup! I make vegetarian chili with lentils. I eat large amounts of raw seeds and nuts. Pumpkin seeds have close to 40gms per cup.

 

I mostly live on smoothies as they are quick and easy. I just ad my evening meal which tonight was a Rice Drink and peanut butter smoothy. Lots of peanut butter. In about 3 hours I will have another smoothy-apple cherry juice and 1 cup raw pumpkin seeds

 

Nutritional yeast is another good source as a supplement. It is 50% protein and is loaded with b-vits.

 

Then there is soy protein and rice powder protein powders which a great for smoothies.

 

1lb frozen fava beans contain 35 gms of protein.

 

Animal products are not needed for protein.

[cbrahma]

The issue with a non-dairy diet is the B12 vitamin. There is a serious disease called pernicious anemia which is caused by a deficiency in that vitamin.

 

 

Protein for me is no problem. Lentils contain 49 gms of protein per cup! I make vegetarian chili with lentils. I eat large amounts of raw seeds and nuts. Pumpkin seeds have close to 40gms per cup.

 

I mostly live on smoothies as they are quick and easy. I just ad my evening meal which tonight was a Rice Drink and peanut butter smoothy. Lots of peanut butter. In about 3 hours I will have another smoothy-apple cherry juice and 1 cup raw pumpkin seeds

 

Nutritional yeast is another good source as a supplement. It is 50% protein and is loaded with b-vits.

 

Then there is soy protein and rice powder protein powders which a great for smoothies.

 

1lb frozen fava beans contain 35 gms of protein.

 

Animal products are not needed for protein.

[Kulapavana]

 

Plants don't have feelings. They don't have a nervous system. Their reactions to light and other such things are due to light induced chemical mechanisms that trigger them to spontaneously grow in one direction vs another.

 

Plants are conscious living entities. Consciousness means feelings. Consciousness is not dependent on a presence of a nervous systems like animals have. not long ago mechanistic scientists denied that animals have feelings too, and they were later proven wrong.

 

actually based on the Vedic understanding plants have a higher level of consciousness than fish.

[theist]

 

The issue with a non-dairy diet is the B12 vitamin. There is a serious disease called pernicious anemia which is caused by a deficiency in that vitamin.

I have plenty of b-12. I take sublingual tablets of methyl-cobalamine, 5000 mcg. each at least 4 times a week. The methyl form of cobalimine is best becasuse it has been shown to protect nerve cells. It strengthens the myelin sheath.

 

I would much prefer taking an extremly cheap supplement over killing calves anyway.

 

We discussed b-12 in the health section a couple months ago.