Faith and Blind Faith

[muralidhar_das]

I regard Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada as a nitya-siddha Vaishnava Acharya who descended from Goloka to engage the people of this degraded age of Kali in the nirguna kirtana of Sri Krishna's holy names.

 

At the same time, I agree with various ISKCON philosophers who are of the view that Sri Guru, that is Srila Prabhupada, is not an omniscient being.

 

To take it a step further, I believe my own Guru Maharaj, Srila Bhakti Rakhsak Sridhar Dev Goswami Maharaj, made some various kinds of "mistakes" such as forgetting where he put his glasses, and so forth - Guru Maharaj never claimed to be infallible in all matters, and I am not being offensive to him by saying he is not infallible. Further to this, Srila Sridhar Maharaj taught us "no book is without its errors" (quoting Bhaktivinode Thakur) and thus that we are not blind followers of words written in books. Rather, we were taught to look for truth inwardly, and to follow the living senior vaishnavas guidance when matters of dispute in the philosophy of Vaishnavism.

 

You, however, follow the school of thought that nobody should change Prabhupada's books. And that every word in the books is perfectly true and correct.

 

In the books you have statements such as the following untrue statements:

 

"Srila Jagannatha dasa Babaji ... initiated Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura"

 

"Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura ... initiated Srila Gaurakisora dasa Babaji"

 

"The direct disciple of Srila Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami was Srila Narottama dasa Thakura"

 

Think what you like about these statements, but there is no doubt whatosoever that these things are not true.

 

Leave the books as they are if you want. Don't change them. But don't demand that I accept these things are true.

 

Blind faith in books is, to me, completely equivalent to the Islamists view that their book is to be followed as "the only authentic religious code of instruction". In fact Vaishnavas are supposed to look for inner revelation and not be slaves to words written in books - book's statements are open to interpretation. The message of living saints is more valid. Find a sadhu and serve him - he knows best. Thus, I believe Bhaktisvarupa Damodara Maharaj was a better source of knowledge than a council of clowns (or ritviks).

 

Now in regard to that letter to Rupanuga, JNDas, I will tel you what I really think today.

 

In the past I've been cautious. But let my words stay on your public forum this time. People can say that I am scum because I say what I am about to say. Let them brand me as scum. I really don't care. Here is what I really feel:

 

The letter to Rupanuga contains many statments that are patently false. There are untrue things in that letter that I and others see as serious Vaishnava-aparadha. Mostly for the reason that what is written in that letter is an intentional distortion of the real facts of history. We have physical evidence, we have the testimony of witnesses. We know what really happened and what is written in that lette is untrue. No doubt Guru Maharaj forgave him. He saw only the good things in his old friend. But that letter is full of aparadha. It wasn't for no reason at all that Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami asked for forgivenesss from his Godbrothers representative, Puri Maharaj, in his final period on this earth.

 

- Muralidhar das

[muralidhar_das]

The message above is in answer to something JNDas wrote to me on another thread.

-muralidhar.

[cbrahma]

I believe the appeal from authority cannot be blind but must be threefold - guru sastra and sadhu. By guru I also include Caitya guru - Krsna in the heart. These must correspond and of course the conformity to simple provable fact before any acceptance is made. If somebody is going to go ballistic because you dared to question their guru -they don't care about Truth - just blind obedience. That is their ignorance. If they are authentic vaisnavas their first impulse should be to enlighten , not chastize. And by this i mean to enligthen with all the appeals possible to sastra and sadhu.

Any other approach is neophyte fanaticsm and not to be tolerated.

[muralidhar_das]

Muralidhar wrote:

I particularly liked the refence about Bhaktisvarup Damodara Maharaja, who I am sure was a genuine Guru.

 

 

 

JNDas wrote to Muralidhar:

Yet you have serious doubts about the legitimacy of Srila Prabhupada, his guru, simply because someone posted one letter where he criticized his god brothers. What is the use of such weak or sentimental faith? You will glorify Bhaktiswarup Damodar Maharaj while questioning his own guru.

[Kulapavana]

this is living in the past. feuds from almost a century ago hunt us to this very day... how sad.

 

the world is burning and we are arguing about last years snowfall...

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

 

There are untrue things in that letter that I and others see as serious Vaishnava-aparadha. ... But that letter is full of aparadha.

 

Thank you for clarifying your view that Srila Prabhupada is an aparadhi.

 

 

The letter to Rupanuga contains many statments that are patently false. Mostly for the reason that what is written in that letter is an intentional distortion of the real facts of history.

Thank you for clarifying your view that Srila Prabhupada is a liar and cheater.

 

Why don't you clarify if Govinda Maharaj also thinks Srila Prabhupada is a liar, cheater and offender.

 

It is clear what you have learned from your gurus. Again, it shows that your respect for Bhaktiswarup Damodar Maharaj is false, as I had pointed out before. You once said you considered him a pure devotee, along with one other ISKCON guru. Who was that again?

 

If you really respected Bhaktiswarup Damodar Maharaj, you would have respect for his guru. Real respect, not the fake respect you show while calling his guru a liar, cheater and offender.

[muralidhar_das]

Thank you too, for showing your understanding.

 

What about this though:

"The direct disciple of Srila Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami was Srila Narottama dasa Thakura"

 

and

 

Śrī Lokanātha Gosvāmī was a personal associate of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu and a great devotee of the Lord. He was a resident of a village named Tālakhaḍi in the district of Yaśohara (Jessore), in Bengal. Previously he lived in Kācnāpāḍā. His father's name was Padmanābha, and his only sibling was a younger brother named Pragalbha. Following the orders of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Śrī Lokanātha went to Vṛndāvana to live. He established a temple named Gokulānanda. Śrīla Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura selected Lokanātha dāsa Gosvāmī to be his spiritual master, and Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura was his only disciple. Because Lokanātha dāsa Gosvāmī did not want his name mentioned in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, we do not often see it in this celebrated book.

(See Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Madhya-lila 18.49.)

[Sridas]

 

Why don't you clarify if Govinda Maharaj also thinks Srila Prabhupada is a liar, cheater and offender.

 

This could be taken as a rather inflamatory statement, why don't you clarify exactly what you mean in these words.

You are not usually one to mince your words so please explain to your readers your intensions here.

 

I personally know Srila Govinda Maharaj and have never ever heard anything but praise for Srila Prabhupad far beyond anything I've heard on this forum or for that matter what has been allowed to be propagated through this medium.

So I'm a little perplexed as to the reason for making such a statement as this. These are his personal pranam prayers to his Divine Grace.

 

 

namah om visnupadaya krsna-presthaya bhutale

swami sri bhaktivedanta prabupadaya te namah

gurvajnam sirasi-dhrtva saktyavesa sva-rupine

hare-krsneti mantrena pascatya-pracya-tarine

visvacarya prabaryaya divya karunya murtaye

sri bhagavata-madhurya-gita-jnana pradayine

gaura-sri-rupa-siddhanta-saraswati nisevine

radha-krsna-padambhoja-bhrngaya gurave namah

 

 

"I offer my humble obeisances unto His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupad, who is Krishna's beloved associate and who came down to this plane from Goloka. Taking the order of his guru on his head, he is the saktyavesa [empowered] avatar of Nityananda Prabhu personified. He distributed the Hare Krishna mantra all over the Eastern and Western world, delivering and uplifting all fallen souls. He is the best of millions of jagat-gurus, because he is the personification of divine mercy. He has distributed the sweet nectar of Srimad-Bhagavatam and the transcendental knowledge of Bhagavad Gita all over the world. He is constantly engaged in exclusive devotional service to Srila Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Prabhupad, Srila Rupa Goswami, and Sri Gauranga Mahaprabhu. I offer my humble obeisances unto Srila Prabhupad, who is like a bumble-bee always tasting the nectar of the lotus feet of Sri Sri Radha and Govinda."

[srila Bhakti Sundar Govinda Maharaj]

[Shakti-Fan]

I don't get it, you seem so intellegent. Why would you put such a thing on a public forum. Before you say something that strong it should be authorized by higher authority. And we know you have a higher authority. If you don't have that authorization, then don't do it. Its tough living in this world and trying to be KC. We all know but get a grip man! We should give you an electronic slap in the face and you should say, "thanks, I needed that".

[Guruvani]

 

 

The letter to Rupanuga contains many statments that are patently false. There are untrue things in that letter that I and others see as serious Vaishnava-aparadha. Mostly for the reason that what is written in that letter is an intentional distortion of the real facts of history. We have physical evidence, we have the testimony of witnesses. We know what really happened and what is written in that lette is untrue. No doubt Guru Maharaj forgave him. He saw only the good things in his old friend. But that letter is full of aparadha. It wasn't for no reason at all that Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami asked for forgivenesss from his Godbrothers representative, Puri Maharaj, in his final period on this earth.

 

- Muralidhar das

 

So, this is the example of what kind of devotees Govinda Maharaja is nurturing?

Srila Prabhupada was an aparadhi because he told some tales to keep his disciples from getting entangled with the bell-ringers of the Gaudiya Matha types?

 

When telling tales becomes important for keeping the Sankirtan movement on track, then there is no offense in any amount of tales and stories that might be useful in keeping a preaching movement away from the bell-ringers.

 

Now we see the real mood of the present day members of SCSM?

 

The idea is that Srila Prabhupada is the aparadhi and the bell-ringers of the Gaudiya Math are the real saints.

 

We also know that Srila Prabhupada approached first Sridhar Maharaja for taking sannyasa so he could preach with some authority, but Sridhar Maharaja turned him away for some really odd reason.

 

Yeah, we know there is an excuse for that too.

 

Sridhar Maharaja wasn't much assistance to Srila Prabhupada when Srila Prabhupada wanted to preach Krishna consciousness all over the world.

 

He just said "no".

[Shakti-Fan]

 

At the same time, I agree with various ISKCON philosophers who are of the view that Sri Guru, that is Srila Prabhupada, is not an omniscient being.

 

To take it a step further, I believe my own Guru Maharaj, Srila Bhakti Rakhsak Sridhar Dev Goswami Maharaj, made some various kinds of "mistakes" such as forgetting where he put his glasses, and so forth

 

The same argument could be used against Krsna's postion. How could Krsna allow himself to be "killed" by a hunter?

 

 

In the books you have statements such as the following untrue statements:

 

"Srila Jagannatha dasa Babaji ... initiated Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura"

 

"Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura ... initiated Srila Gaurakisora dasa Babaji"

 

"The direct disciple of Srila Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami was Srila Narottama dasa Thakura"

 

Think what you like about these statements, but there is no doubt whatosoever that these things are not true.

 

Srila Saraswati Thakur said, "religion means proper adjustment", and Srila Sridhar Maharaja was quite fond of that remark. Do you really think that that the attitude you are displaying in the above statement is the "proper adjustment"? Why not follow Srimad Bhagavatam on this:

 

 

tad vag visargo janatagha viplavo

yasmin prati-slokam abaddhavaty api

namany anantasya yaso 'nkitani yat

srnvanti gayanti grnanti sadhavah

 

 

 

The letter to Rupanuga contains many statments that are patently false. There are untrue things in that letter that I and others see as serious Vaishnava-aparadha. Mostly for the reason that what is written in that letter is an intentional distortion of the real facts of history. We have physical evidence, we have the testimony of witnesses. We know what really happened and what is written in that lette is untrue. No doubt Guru Maharaj forgave him. He saw only the good things in his old friend. But that letter is full of aparadha. It wasn't for no reason at all that Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami asked for forgivenesss from his Godbrothers representative, Puri Maharaj, in his final period on this earth.

 

 

A Vaisnava aparadha is like a crime against a Vaisnava. In worldly criminal law the most important element is intent. That is a reflection of the spiritual reality. Here the issue is not whether there was intention to distort the facts of the history of the Gaudiya Math but was there any intention on Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami's part to harm Srila Sridhar Maharaja's reputation? Or was Srila B.V. Swami Prabhupada merely trying to insulate his neophyte followers from outside influences? I can't quote passages at this point but if you go back and listen to the recordings of the conversations of Srila Sridhar Maharaja with Srila Prabhuapada's disciples in the early '80s you will find the later to be his tenor. You can also look at the book "Sri Guru and His Grace". Otherwise to take your position, then Srila Sridhar Maharaja's preaching to Prabhupada's disciples at that time could be seen as a disingenuous ploy to lure those devotees into becoming members of the Sri Caitanya Saraswat Math. In fact that is what the GBC was alleging at that time. What kind of service is that to put this kind of thing on a public forum?

[Guruvani]

Even if Srila Prabhupada tells a lie, that lie has more value and meaning than all the "truth" about the bell-ringers of the Gaudiya Matha who would have stopped the Krishna consciousness movement from spreading all over the world if Srila Prabhupada would have let them.

 

Of course, the bell ringers of the Gaudiya Math and it's spawn all have good excuses why they couldn't and wouldn't make an effort to spread Krishna consciousness all over the world.

 

Srila Prabhupada didn't make excuses.

 

He just fulfilled the mission of Mahaprabhu, Bhaktivinode and Srila Saraswati Goswami and didn't make excuses why it couldn't be done.

[Guruvani]

Muralidhar das is a devotee today because of the effort of Srila Prabhupada to spread Krishna consciousness all over the world.

 

But, he prefers to pretend as if Sridhar Maharaja and Govinda Maharaja had something to do with it.

 

they didn't.

 

They absorbed some of the energy that Srila Prabhupada generated with his preaching and took all credit for that.

 

Here again we see the same old Gaudiya Math mentality that caused Srila Prabhupada to say what he said to being with.

[Guruvani]

On behalf of Govinda Maharaja and the present day Sri Caitanya Saraswata Math, Muralidhar has stated their position on the matter of Srila Prabhupada:

 

"Your Prabhupada was an aparadhi".

 

Thank-you for keeping us all up to date.

[Guruvani]

So, according to Muralidhar das, real faith means to understand that Srila Prabhupada is an aparadhi, but we worship him anyway.

 

Blind faith is to worship Srila Prabhupada without thinking that he is an aparadhi.

 

I'll take blind faith any day of the week.

[theist]

I am very sad to hear Murlidhars calling of Srila Prabhupada an aparadhi.

 

I would be cautious about painting all of the SCSM with the same brush however.

[cbrahma]

If so-called aparadha was sufficent to 'break' our position as disciples then most temples should have been vacated a long time ago. As it is, in my experience the most offensive and arrogant do very well in temple communities. They often rise to positions of authority.

 

 

So, according to Muralidhar das, real faith means to understand that Srila Prabhupada is an aparadhi, but we worship him anyway.

 

Blind faith is to worship Srila Prabhupada without thinking that he is an aparadhi.

 

I'll take blind faith any day of the week.

[Beggar]

 

 

Organized Religion

by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur

 

Sri Krishna manifests His eternal birth, the pure cognitive essence of the serving soul who is located above all mundane limitations. King Kamsa [the demon king who wanted to kill Lord Krishna] is the typical empiricist, ever on the lookout for the appearance of the truth for the purpose of suppressing Him before He has time to develop. This is no exaggeration of the real connotation of the consistent empiric position. The materialist has a natural repugnance for the transcendent. He is disposed to link that faith in the incomprehensible is the parent of dogmatism and hypocrisy in the guise of religion. He is also equally under the delusion that there is no real dividing line between the material and the spiritual. He is strengthened in his delusion by the interpretation of scriptures by persons who are like-minded with himself. This includes all the lexicographic interpreters.

The lexicographical interpretation is upheld by Kamsa as the real scientific explanation of the scriptures, and is perfectly in keeping with his dread of and aversion for the transcendental. These lexicographical interpreters are employed by Kamsa in putting down the first suspected appearance of any genuine faith in the transcendental. King Kamsa knows very well that if the faith in the transcendental is once allowed to grow it is sure to upset all his empiric prospects.

There is historical ground for such misgivings. Accordingly if the empiric domination is to be preserved in tact it would be necessary not to lose a moment to put down the transcendental heresy the instant it threatens to make its appearance in earnest. King Kamsa, acting on this traditional fear, is never slow to take the scientific precaution of deputing empiric teachers of the scriptures, backed by the resources of dictionary and grammar and all empiric subtleties to put down, by the show of specious arguments based on hypothetical principles, the true interpretation of the eternal religion revealed by the scriptures.

Kamsa is strongly persuaded that faith in the transcendental can be effectively put down by empiricism if prompt and decisive measures are adopted at the very outset. He attributes the failure of atheism in the past to the neglect of the adoption of such measures before the theistic fallacy has had time to spread among the fanatical masses.

But Kamsa is found to count without his host. When Krishna is born, He is found to be able to upset all sinister designs against those who are apprized by Himself of His advent. The apparently causeless faith displayed by persons irrespective of age, sex and condition may confound all rabid empiricists who are on principle adverse to the Absolute Truth Whose appearance is utterly incompatible with the domination of empiricism.

But no adverse efforts of the empiricists whose rule seems till then to be perfectly well-established over the minds of the deluded souls of this world can dissuade any person from exclusively following the Truth when He actually manifests His birth in the pure cognitive essence of the soul.

Putana [the demoness who tried to kill Krishna] is the slayer of all infants. The baby, when he or she comes out of the mother's womb, falls at once into the hands of the pseudo-teachers of religion. These teachers are successful in forestalling the attempts of the good preceptor whose help is never sought by the atheists of this world at the baptism of their babies. This is ensured by the arrangements of all established churches of the world. They have been successful only in supplying watchful Putanas for effecting the spiritual destruction of persons from the moment of their birth with cooperation of their worldly parents. No human contrivance can prevent these Putanas from obtaining possession of their pulpits. This is due to the general prevalence of atheistic disposition in the people of this world.

The church that has the best chance of survival in this damned world is that of atheism under the convenient guise of theism. The churches have always proved the staunchest upholders of the grossest form of worldliness from which even the worst of non-ecclesiastical criminals are found to recoil.

It is not from any deliberate opposition to the ordained clergy that these observations are made. The original purpose of the established churches of the world may not always be objectionable. But no stable religious arrangement for instructing the masses has yet been successful. The Supreme Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, in pursuance of the teachings of the scriptures enjoins all absence of conventionalism for the teachers of the eternal religion. It does not follow that the mechanical adoption of the unconventional life by any person will make him a fit teacher of religion. Regulation is necessary for controlling the inherent worldliness of conditioned souls.

But no mechanical regulation has any value, even for such a purpose. The bona-fide teacher of religion is neither any product of, nor the favourer of, any mechanical system. In his hands no system has likewise the chance of denigrating into a lifeless arrangement. The mere pursuit of fixed doctrines and fixed liturgies cannot hold a person to the true spirit of doctrine or liturgy.

The idea of an organized church in an intelligible form, indeed, marks the close of the living spiritual movement. The great ecclesiastical establishments are the dikes and dams to retain the current that cannot be held by any such contrivances. They, indeed, indicate a desire on the part of the masses to exploit a spiritual movement for their own purpose. They also unmistakably indicate the end of the absolute and unconventional guidance of the bona-fide spiritual teacher. The people of this world understand preventive systems, they have no idea at all of the unprevented positive eternal life. Neither can there be any earthy contrivance for the permanent preservation of the life eternal on this mundane plane on the popular scale.

Those are, therefore, greatly mistaken who are disposed to look forward to the amelioration of the worldly state in any worldly sense from the worldly success of any really spiritual movement. It is these worldly expectants who become the patrons of the mischievous race of the pseudo-teachers of religion, the Putanas, whose congenial function is to stifle the theistic disposition at the very moment of its suspected appearance. But the theistic disposition can never be stifled by the efforts of those Putanas. The Putanas have power only over the atheist. It is a thankless but salutary task which they perform for the benefit of their unwilling victims.

But as soon as theistic disposition proper makes its appearance in the pure cognitive essence of the awakened soul, the Putanas are decisively silenced at the very earliest stage of their encounter with the new-born Krishna. The would-be slayer of herself slain. This is the reward of the negative services that the Putanas unwittingly render to the cause of theism by strangling all hypocritical demonstrations against their own hypocrisy.

But Putana does not at all like to receive her reward in only form which involves the total destruction of her wrong personality. King Kamsa also does not like to lose the services of the most trusted of his agents. The effective silencing of the whole race of pseudo-teachers of religion is the first clear indication of the appearance of the Absolute on the mundane plane. The bona-fide teacher of the Absolute, heralds the Advent of Krishna by his uncompromising campaign against the pseudo-teachers of religion.

[Beggar]

 

to take your position, then Srila Sridhar Maharaja's preaching to Prabhupada's disciples at that time could be seen as a disingenuous ploy to lure those devotees into becoming members of the Sri Caitanya Saraswat Math. In fact that is what the GBC was alleging at that time.

 

Here again we see the same old Gaudiya Math mentality that caused Srila Prabhupada to say what he said to being [begin] with.

Guruvani, Did you hold this position when you were helping Sudhir Maharaja print the Guardian of Devotion books in California? Sudhir M. told me in 1984, "that if there is a difference between Prabhupada and Sridhar Maharaja then I take the side of Sridhar Maharaja." I didn't say anything to him but I was stunned.

[Guruvani]

 

Guruvani, Did you hold this position when you were helping Sudhir Maharaja print the Guardian of Devotion books in California? Sudhir M. told me in 1984, "that if there is a difference between Prabhupada and Sridhar Maharaja then I take the side of Sridhar Maharaja." I didn't say anything to him but I was stunned.

I was already gone from there by 1984.

I arrived there in the end of 1981.

When I got there it was just a house with a handful of devotees:

Goswami, , Krishna Smriti, Brahma, Yudha and maybe a couple more.

 

When I arrived there was no regular prasadam program, deity worship or regulation.

These guys would stay up all hours of the night talking and then sleeping late.

I came in as a very regulated pujari brahmana and established a kitchen, regular offerings and began the deity worship program of worshiping Govardhan sila and gunjamala.

When the deities were installed about a year later I arranged for my old friend Ramai to escape from ISKCON Chicago and come there and take over the deity worship. As head cook, I had my hands full feeding this growing camp of devotees.

 

Gradually more devotees came.

I remember picking of Mukunda-mala (Maha-yogi Swami) when he arrived at the airport from LA.

I remember when Jagadananda and his wife arrived.

I don't think there were any disciples of Sridhar Maharaja there yet.

(Maybe Krishna Smriti was, I don't know for sure)

It was just disciples of Srila Prabhupada that were hearing from Sridhar Maharaja.

 

When Goswami put his picture on the altar and Brahma and Yudha were dogging new devotees to take initiation from him instead of Sridhar Maharaja, I had to move on down the road.

 

But, to answer your question, I know that Sridhar Maharaja and Srila Prabhupada didn't agree on everything, but I was always able to harmonize that without any internal conflict.

 

I never found myself as having to accept one over the other.

I just personally never found a situation where I had to side with one over the other, because I have always been a maverick devotee with enough fluidity that I didn't get caught up in having to take sides, because I never wanted position, prestige or recognition from any institution.

 

But, when devotees from the SCSM group start referring to Srila Prabhupada as having committed great aparadha against Sridhar Maharaja and the others, then I just feel like I want to kick them in the ass with big boot about 108 times.

 

Muralidhar is a devotee today due to the efforts of Srila Prabhupada and ISKCON, but he wants to pretend as if that never happened and pose as some big-shot disciple of Sridhar Maharaja.

[Sridas]

Well, well, well hasn't this revealed some true colours, dirty as they may be.

What amazes me is everyone here in this forum does nothing to remove or object to all this puke, it seems that everyone takes some sort of macabe pleasure hearing or reading this ongoing dribble as if it is relevant to spiritual advancement, even wanting to know more.

A sad and tragic testiment to anyone who gives ear to all this nonsense . We will leave you to your Guru Vani taking you thousands of lives away from reality.

What happened to the administrators and moderators... fall asleep on the job did we?

I see like so many times on this forum no one stopped the thread when they thought there was offence committed, don't remove it let it all proliferate through a kamakaji maniac that calls himself a devotee.

Do you really think your guru is pleased with you or any of those you claim you are aspiring to serve? Of course you can always delete this post and get on with the entertainment.

[Guruvani]

 

 

The letter to Rupanuga contains many statments that are patently false. There are untrue things in that letter that I and others see as serious Vaishnava-aparadha. Mostly for the reason that what is written in that letter is an intentional distortion of the real facts of history. We have physical evidence, we have the testimony of witnesses. We know what really happened and what is written in that lette is untrue. No doubt Guru Maharaj forgave him. He saw only the good things in his old friend. But that letter is full of aparadha. It wasn't for no reason at all that Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami asked for forgivenesss from his Godbrothers representative, Puri Maharaj, in his final period on this earth.

 

- Muralidhar das

 

What a knucklehead..........

[muralidhar_das]

I know I have a debt to Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. But then when I read the letter to Rupanuga where he was criticizing Srila Sridhar Maharaj I lost the faith I had in him. He asserted that Srila Sridhar Maharaj caused the break-up of the Gaudiya Math and that " Sridhar Maharaja is responsible for disobeying this order of Guru Maharaja". But I know for certain that Srila Sridhar Maharaj was never a member of the Gaudiya Math GBC and he was not present at the GBC meeting where Anantavasudeva and Bhaktivilasa Tirtha had breakup and broke up the Gaudiya Math. To assert that Srila Sridhar Maharaj caused the breakup of the Gaudiya Math and that he disobeyed his Guru is, well, to use a respectful word, untrue.

 

-Muralidhar das

[Guruvani]

 

It wasn't for no reason at all that Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami asked for forgivenesss from his Godbrothers representative, Puri Maharaj, in his final period on this earth.

 

What a load of pig waste.

 

 

However, did the Godbrothers of Srila Prabhupada ever ask him for forgiveness of their offenses against him?

 

no!

 

Now, we see who the real sadhu is after all.

[Guruvani]

 

I know I have a debt to Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. But then when I read the letter to Rupanuga where he was criticizing Srila Sridhar Maharaj I lost the faith I had in him. He asserted that Srila Sridhar Maharaj caused the break-up of the Gaudiya Math and that " Sridhar Maharaja is responsible for disobeying this order of Guru Maharaja". But I know for certain that Srila Sridhar Maharaj was never a member of the Gaudiya Math GBC and he was not present at the GBC meeting where Anantavasudeva and Bhaktivilasa Tirtha had breakup and broke up the Gaudiya Math. To assert that Srila Sridhar Maharaj caused the breakup of the Gaudiya Math and that he disobeyed his Guru is, well, to use a respectful word, untrue.

 

-Muralidhar das

 

Surely, you never expected to hear anything from Govinda Maharaja or the members of SCSM agree that Sridhar Maharaja was responsible for the break-up of the Gaudiya Math?

 

Sridhar Maharaja himself referred to himself as "formbreaker",

because he himself felt partly responsible for the break-up of the Gaudiya Math which he felt had taken a material form after the passing of Srila Saraswati Thakur.

Maybe the break-up of the Gaudiya Math was not such a bad thing?

Maybe Srila Prabhupada was actually glorifying Sridhar Maharaja with those statements?

If the Gaudiya Math hadn't broken up, maybe the entire course of Srila Prabhupada coming to America would have been different?

If you think you know the mind of the pure devotee and think you can accuse him of being an aparadhi, then you are about as stupid as stupid can get.

Muralidhar, you are an idiot for talking that kind of crap.

You have no idea at all what Srila Prabhupada was intentially doing by saying what he said about Sridhar Maharaja.