Holy Cow Swami

[Guruvani]

I was doing some Google searches and I found this:

 

http://www.dancingoutlaw.com/servlet/Detail?no=4&gclid=CM_859qHqIkCFTYNQgod1WP-Tw

 

[Puru Das, das anudas]

Srila bhaktivinoda Thakura advises us to "forget the past that sleeps."

 

That video is a 6 hour compilation that was done by the Pittsburgh local pbs station. It clearly shows that New Vrndavana had problems, and that Kirtanananda Prabhu was also dealing with many issues. What value to drag it up? Despite the many vilifying gurukulis, former New Vrndavana residents, former child-abused victims of Sri Galim, etc etc etc Kirtanananda still has the right to make spiritual advancement. Our vaisnava acara is supposed to be that even if there is some fall down, any candidate can reinstate himself without and prayascita (atomement) other than once again following the four regulative principles of freedom, and chanting the holy name.

 

Kirtanananda's body is plagued by polio from his youth. He is wheel chair bound and requires assistance with basic life necessities. Surely that and 14 years in prison has softened his heart from many of the mistakes he made due to arrogance, power etc. . He has only a few followers left, and it is very clear that Krsna has taken away all the men, money, land and false prestige and made his path forward spiritually still a concrete possibility.

 

He traveled at great personal nconvenience to hear from Srila B.V. Narayana Maharaja in florida last year. Think what you will, but I used to live in New Vrndavana when he was the object of everyone's worship. He assumed a much humbler stance this time and was appreciative of Vaisnava association and came to every class and sat on the side and simply listened. When asked to speak something by SBVNM he mostly defered to the other sannyasis on the stage and kept his remarks to the point of KC but very short. He was cutting no profile, had no agenda and should be given credit where credit is due. I dont defend the errors in judgement and nasty behavior in anyone's past. I also don't condone any of the sins committed by anyone in the name of KC. However to quote Lord Jesus, let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

 

. For all of the mistakes Kirtanananea has made he is not curren

tly a Vaisnava aparadhi, and that cannot be said of many of his so called god brothers who still hold positions in the founder-acaryas' institution.

 

Interestingly enough I recently( November) saw Bhavananada up close, first hand in Mayapura. I went to the mangala aratike at the iskcon candradoya mandira, at the insistance of a friend from Calcutta who owns the mango grove where Srila Prabhuapd used to take prasadam half way between Calcutta and Nabadwipa.

 

Bhavananda knew me when I joined in l970. He was my tp and first guide in KC, to some extent. He simply ignored me and I was forced to practice the same kind of upeksa. Whatever he has done I did not get the same reaction to seeing him as I did when I saw Kirtanananda. Perhaps the scope of their aparadhas differ in severity. Who can say. But if any of the poison allegations against Bhavaananda are true it is very sacry indeed that such a personality is being supported and endorsed by Jayapataka, who must be his partner in spiritual crime.

 

Jai Advaita Maharja told me that he thought that B was now in good consciousness and could only help the Mayapura scheme. I simply did not have the heart or stomach to carryvthat discussion any further, or even respond to his evaluation..

[Guruvani]

 

Srila bhaktivinoda Thakura advises us to "forget the past that sleeps."

It's no issue to me.

But, this is surely not a "past that sleeps", but a present day controversy that has long ranging implications on the Krishna consciousness movement in the USA.

 

I was just thinking the other day how all the most famous and powerful devotees of the Prabhupada era have now become some of the most despicable and infamous devotees in the movement.

Most all the hatred for them comes from the zonal acharya scam they pulled on ISKCON after the passing of Srila Prabhupada.

 

Many devotees actually hate Tamal, Kirtanananda, Jayapataka and many others.

 

I think most of their trouble comes from acquiring the position of guru by some contrivance and political maneuvering.

 

It's just a shame that so many devotees HATE so many other devotees including Narayana Maharaja, and I don't think all this hatred is totally unwarranted and groundless.

 

The movement is a mess with all this hatred amongst each other.

It's sad, it's sick and unfortunately it's real.

 

Being a small-timer has it's advantages I guess.

When you are a nobody...........nobody hates you.

[Guruvani]

 

 

He traveled at great personal nconvenience to hear from Srila B.V. Narayana Maharaja in florida last year. Think what you will, but I used to live in New Vrndavana when he was the object of everyone's worship. He assumed a much humbler stance this time and was appreciative of Vaisnava association and came to every class and sat on the side and simply listened.

 

 

 

It seems that for you the litmus test is always whether or not someone is favorable to Narayana Maharaja.

I know for sure that there are other camps in the Saraswata parivar where that is most certainly not the litmus test at all of whether a devotee is sincere.

 

I imagine that old Kirtanananda Swami has reformed himself some.

But, his offenses were monsterous and many devotess will never forgive him.

It doesn't mean anything to Narayana Maharaja because he was never effected by the heinous crimes of Kirtanananda.

It's not up to Narayana Maharaja to forgive him, because Narayana Maharaja was never his victim as were the many devotees whose lives were wrecked by Kirtanananda.

 

Maybe it is better that all his crimes and atrocities are broadcast?

Maybe that will prevent some Hare Krishna madmen in the future from pulling off that kind of cult scam on other innocent people?

[mrs.moore]

isn't kirtanananda the one who ordered a couple of devotees to be murdered?

is that why he was in jail!

did narayan maharaj invite him to speak into the microphone to the gathering?

about krishna?

[Guest guest]

 

 

He has only a few followers left, and it is very clear that Krsna has taken away all the men, money, land and false prestige and made his path forward spiritually still a concrete possibility.

 

 

So Puru Prabhu is saying Kirtanananda has improved his "concrete possibility" of advancement simply because he now poses as the pure devotee mahabhagavata Prabhupada-successor leader of a few dozen devotees instead of a few thousand?

 

Puru is saying a devotee is more humble and poised for advancement when he says "I'm beyond the three modes of material nature and have 50 disciples" instead of saying "I'm beyond the three modes of material nature and have several thousand disciples"?

 

Or is Puru really saying, "I think Kirtanananda may surrender to Narayana Maharaja, or be favorable enough so that some of his followers may jump ship and go with Narayana Maharaja, so I'll be gentle and avoid attacking his false ego"?

[Puru Das, das anudas]

 

It seems that for you the litmus test is always whether or not someone is favorable to Narayana Maharaja.?

 

That is your conclusion. Kindly don't put words in my mouth. I don't do that to you. I am not a sectarian thinker and like HDG am of no particular faction. The litmus test is how anyone reacts to the preaching of mahabhagavata Vaisnavas. Srila B.V. Naryana Maharaja is such a devotee. So is Srila Bhakti Ballabha Tirtha Maharaja, who is giving class very soon at 8:30 P.M. Tonight I will hear from him and stay at his matha overnight, before I return to SBVNM's matha in Janak Puri, Delhi.

 

 

 

I I know for sure that there are other camps in the Saraswata parivar where that is most certainly not the litmus test at all of whether a devotee is sincere.

 

There are envious, sectarian thinkers everywhere. I pick my association carefully, and in any sanga there are those to avoid and those to associate withl.

 

 

I imagine that old Kirtanananda Swami has reformed himself some.But, his offenses were monsterous and many devotess will never forgive him.

 

Then that is their problem and not his.

 

 

 

 

It doesn't mean anything to Narayana Maharaja because he was never effected by the heinous crimes of Kirtanananda...?

 

Yo cannot speculate about the consciousness of any pure devotee.Be careful not to tread on the thin ice of aparadha.

 

 

It's not up to Narayana Maharaja to forgive him, because Narayana Maharaja was never his victim as were the many devotees whose lives were wrecked by Kirtanananda

 

And it is not up to you or anyone else to judge the mercy of an exalted Vaisnava unless you share the same adhikara and see all living entities as eternal parts and parcels of the Supreme Lord, and not as conditioned souls, or fallen disciples.

 

And besides that, I just don't buy into that KS or any other iskcon dictator,then or now,had or has any power ,then or nowto ruin anyone's spiritual life unless they follow blindly.Srila Prabhupada wrote very clearly in Bg. that blind

following is not accepted.everything must be accepted with care and attention. I will find the exact quote and

post it for you.

 

That Ks and others did

irreperable damage to many is not in dispute. I don't

think they understand the scope of what they did.In this regard they all seem rather clueless. Strange but true. Must be denial.

 

However I lived in NV 3years. I was never his victim, and I never let my children be abused by anyone either. I was an attentive parent and I cared less that some called that being too attached. Tough ! .

 

 

Maybe it is better that all his crimes and atrocities are broadcast?Maybe that will prevent some Hare Krishna madmen in the future from pulling off that kind of cult scam on other innocent people?

 

Anyone who sees the video will easily conclude that he was off.I watched it before I was thinking to move to NV. Other issues prevented the move, not KS's problems.

[mrs.moore]

 

... Srila Bhakti Ballabha Tirtha Maharaja, who is giving class very soon at 8:30 P.M. Tonight I will hear from him and stay at his matha overnight, before I return to SBVNM's matha in Janak Puri, Delhi.

 

are you staying in the janakpuri math?

do they rent out rooms?

where is tirtha maharaja giving class?