Bhakta Don Muntean Posted December 28, 2006 Report Share Posted December 28, 2006 This morning walk quote elucidates the point clearly and i hope that people do not think Prabhupada is excusing the activity - he is saying that it is too common place in today's world: Prabhupada: Yes, that is law always. Rape means without consent, sex. Otherwise there is no rape. There was a rape case in Calcutta, and the lawyer was very intelligent. He some way or other made the woman admit, “Yes, I felt happiness [pleasure].” So he was released. “Here is consent.” And that’s a fact. Because after all, sex, rape or no rape, they will feel some pleasure. So the lawyer by hook and crook made the woman agree, “Yes, I felt some pleasure.” “Now, there is consent.” So he was released.... [Morning Walk, May 11. 1975] So that is a general statement. In the most direct sense rape isn't about sex - it's about control and - even the western laws take note of circumstances - like the so-called difference in manslaughter and first degree murder - the courts make a distinction - also - note his comment - "the lawyer by hook and crook made the woman agree" - so - there it is. We have to understand Prabhupada's awareness of a particular point and understand his comments in proper context. Too often people read such things and conclude that Prabhupada condones such an activity and we here all know that nothing could be further from the truth. We do have a situation in our world now where the push for so-called political correctness has jaded people's understandings in so many ways - we know that Prabhupada was saying 'some women' not all women may have this 'propensity' Without a doubt - there are a great deal of sexually aggressive people [everywhere] in the world - male and female and - it isn't dispargement of women to say so. When these people interact who knows the sorted results which become possible... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 28, 2006 Report Share Posted December 28, 2006 Instead, why can't we just agree that SP has made mistakes and leave it at that? He wasn't god. He was human at the end of the day. Hilo, Hawaii: February 8, 2005 Tridandisvami Sri Srimad Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja acaryam mam vijaniyan navanmanyeta karhicit na martya-buddhyasuyeta sarva-deva-mayo guru “One should know the acarya as Myself, and never disrespect him in any way. One should not envy him, thinking him an ordinary man, for he is the representative of all the demigods.” (Srimad-Bhagavatam 11.17.27) It may seem like guru is going to the bathroom, or he is eating something because he is hungry. Don’t see him as you would see an ordinary person, otherwise you will be cheated forever. Have strong faith in guru, more than in Krsna. Srimati Radhika and Krsna have sent him as Their own messenger. We should always remember this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhakta Don Muntean Posted December 28, 2006 Report Share Posted December 28, 2006 Hilo, Hawaii: February 8, 2005 Tridandisvami Sri Srimad Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja acaryam mam vijaniyan navanmanyeta karhicit na martya-buddhyasuyeta sarva-deva-mayo guru “One should know the acarya as Myself, and never disrespect him in any way. One should not envy him, thinking him an ordinary man, for he is the representative of all the demigods.” (Srimad-Bhagavatam 11.17.27) It may seem like guru is going to the bathroom, or he is eating something because he is hungry. Don’t see him as you would see an ordinary person, otherwise you will be cheated forever. Have strong faith in guru, more than in Krsna. Srimati Radhika and Krsna have sent him as Their own messenger. We should always remember this... oh - him again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 28, 2006 Report Share Posted December 28, 2006 Srila Sridhar Maharaja says, "We are requested not to see guru as limited in his ordinary personification, but as the transparent mediator of the highest function in his line. If only our vision is deep, we can see that according to the depth of our sraddha, our vision, guru tattva is very peculiar, very noble, very broad, wide and very deep." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted December 28, 2006 Report Share Posted December 28, 2006 The fact that your mind, being conditioned by this day and age, automatically thinks of forced sexual intercourse and then saying that that is obviously what Prabhupada ment by it, is very unfortunate. It shows more the state of your mind, then the mind of a cultured elderly gentleman from India. Prabhupada: Yes, that is law always. Rape means without consent, sex. Otherwise there is no rape. There was a rape case in Calcutta, and the lawyer was very intelligent. He some way or other made the woman admit, “Yes, I felt happiness [pleasure].” So he was released. “Here is consent.” And that’s a fact. Because after all, sex, rape or no rape, they will feel some pleasure. So the lawyer by hook and crook made the woman agree, “Yes, I felt some pleasure.” “Now, there is consent.” So he was released.... [Morning Walk, May 11. 1975] Like I said earlier, Prabhupada knew precisely what the word "rape" means. He was a very articulate writer. I dont have an issue with him. I have an issue with his mythologists who actually do him more disservice than people like me who try to present an honest picture of the day. Thanks for the quote BDM. I'll go easy on you next time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 28, 2006 Report Share Posted December 28, 2006 oh him again... Oh Bhakta Don's quiotic nature again causes him to fall into Vaishnava aparadh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrahma Posted December 28, 2006 Report Share Posted December 28, 2006 The same word may have different meanings in different contexts. Nothing in these disputed quotes has to do with not knowing what the word means. It means many things. The literalists are the mytholigizers. Prabhupada: Yes, that is law always. Rape means without consent, sex. Otherwise there is no rape. There was a rape case in Calcutta, and the lawyer was very intelligent. He some way or other made the woman admit, “Yes, I felt happiness [pleasure].” So he was released. “Here is consent.” And that’s a fact. Because after all, sex, rape or no rape, they will feel some pleasure. So the lawyer by hook and crook made the woman agree, “Yes, I felt some pleasure.” “Now, there is consent.” So he was released.... [Morning Walk, May 11. 1975] Like I said earlier, Prabhupada knew precisely what the word "rape" means. He was a very articulate writer. I dont have an issue with him. I have an issue with his mythologists who actually do him more disservice than people like me who try to present an honest picture of the day. Thanks for the quote BDM. I'll go easy on you next time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrahma Posted December 28, 2006 Report Share Posted December 28, 2006 The whole site is littered with examples from so many bloggers. I wonder how anybody ever makes any progress. Or manages to discuss anything besides the weather. Oh Bhakta Don's quiotic nature again causes him to fall into Vaishnava aparadh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beggar Posted December 28, 2006 Report Share Posted December 28, 2006 Srila Sridhar Maharaja says, "We are requested not to see guru as limited in his ordinary personification, but as the transparent mediator of the highest function in his line. If only our vision is deep, we can see that according to the depth of our sraddha, our vision, guru tattva is very peculiar, very noble, very broad, wide and very deep." Oh him again! Thank you so much Mr. Guest Prabhu! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beggar Posted December 28, 2006 Report Share Posted December 28, 2006 The whole site is littered with examples from so many bloggers. I wonder how anybody ever makes any progress. Or manages to discuss anything besides the weather. Todays forecast: A strong Aparadha front is approaching from the Gulf of Kanistha. When this apraradhic mass enters the Land of Misconception severe reactions are expected. Be sure to protect all fragile bhakti creepers, for there is the possibility of hearing from persons whose creepers have already sufferred extreme damage. Tommorrows Forecast: Gradual clearing stage in those areas that avoided Vaisnava and Guru aparadha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahnava Nitai Das Posted December 28, 2006 Report Share Posted December 28, 2006 Srila Prabhupada's statement: A man is always famous for his aggression toward a beautiful woman, and such aggression is sometimes considered rape. There are different meanings to the word rape, and the context should be understood by the usage. In no culture in the world is someone glorified by calling them a rapist. But this verse is the wife glorifying the husband, and Srila Prabhupada says "fame" here refers to "rape". Show me one culture in the world were calling someone a "sexual abuser" or "rapist" is the way you glorify someone. Your purposeful avoidance of the obvious fitting dictionary definition is due to your offensive view of Srila Prabhupada. Go post your offenses to Srila Prabhupada on your guru's forum, not here. Your only aim here is to show Srila Prabhupada as a person who thought that all women want to be raped. You want people to turn away from Srila Prabhupada's teachings based on your distorted interpretations of them. The fact that your mind chooses to identify 'rape" with sexual abuse instead of "to forcibly carry away" just reflects your own mind set. Srila Prabhupada's spiritual teachings are pure beyond your mundane interpretations. No one would suggest that all women just want to be raped, and by misrepresenting that Srila Prabhupada taught this you are doing the greatest disservice and offense to him. You clearly know that Prabhupada would never teach such a thing, but you still profess it just to insult Srila Prabhupada. Anyone who thinks they are fit to "forgive" Srila Prabhupada for his imagined mistakes and "ignorant" views is equal to a worm in stool, and that specifically refers to you Kulapavana. Nothing implied in my statement, you can take it literally. Srila Prabhupada pulled you from the sewage and made you a human being. He cleaned you up from your meat eating, intoxication and illicit sex and made you a civilized human. In response you want to spit on his face and portray him so that others will despise him. That's the same thing your guru Harikesh did as well. Now look at him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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