Will some of us become Gopas rather than Gopis in Goloka?

[Guest guest]

i.e. male friends of God rather than female beloveds?

[cbrahma]

You have high hopes don't you. My understanding is that you don't get there unless you're devoted and devotees don't worry about their rasa, they just serve.

 

 

i.e. male friends of God rather than female beloveds?

[Guest guest]

A devotee only attains Goloka after performing unmotivated devotional service.

 

"Unmotivated" means that the devotee is devoted to pleasing Krishna rather than self. The unmotivated devotee wants Krishna to use him in whatever way He desires. A devotee who would be "disappointed" at receiving any position of service is not a devotee fit for any position in Goloka.

 

As a result, according to the teachings of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, a devotee who aspires to serve as a gopa is by definition unfit to serve even as a blade of grass in Goloka. Someone who "would rather" be a gopa than a manjari will become neither. For that matter, someone who "would rather" be a manjari than a gopa will become neither.

[mahak]

There is no going, there is no becoming. This is bogus christian thought process. The supreme abode is not a destination or a geographical location.

 

We are what we are, even in our forgetfulness of who we are. We dont become gopis or gopas, we are gopas and gopis, warriors, acaryas, demigods.

 

This bhakti yoga process enables rememberance of our reality. The acarya does not teach us who we will become, rather teaches the reality of who we really are.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[cbrahma]

There is a going of consciousness, an attainment of mental state regardless of religious affiliation. If you think that you are already there, then realize it by your actions and trascendant consciousness. Without those symptom there certainly is a going. By the way the SB says the material manifestation is 'located' in the spiritual sky. It speaks of journeys and travelling beyond the 'covering' of false ego. Sounds like geography to me.

Even the yogic process tries to raise the life airs of the body up the thousand petal cakra and release the soul at death. Lots of comings and goings.

 

 

There is no going, there is no becoming. This is bogus christian thought process. The supreme abode is not a destination or a geographical location.

 

We are what we are, even in our forgetfulness of who we are. We dont become gopis or gopas, we are gopas and gopis, warriors, acaryas, demigods.

 

This bhakti yoga process enables rememberance of our reality. The acarya does not teach us who we will become, rather teaches the reality of who we really are.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[Guest guest]

"Work now, samadhi later."

[Guruvani]

The matter of raga and our particular internal nature and propensity to love Krishna in a certain mood is a very complicated subject to try and address in a forum topic.

Such matters definitly require a siksha guru to explain and teach.

 

 

 

TLC, ch.13:

 

Since ali the inhabitants of Vrajabhumi, Vrndavana, are very dear to Krsna, a devotee selects one of the inhabitants and follows in his footsteps in order to be successful in his own devotional service. A pure devotee who is attached to the Lord always follows in the footsteps of a personality of Vrajabhumi. It is advised in Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu (1.2.294) that a pure devotee attached to devotional service should always remember the activities of a particular inhabitant of Vraja, even though he is not able to live in Vrajabhumi or Vrndavana. In this way he can always think of Vrajabhumi and Vrndavana. The confidential devotees attached to the service of the Lord are divided into several categories: some of them are servants, some are friends, some are parents, and some are conjugal lovers. In devotional service with attachment, one has to follow a particular type of devotee of Vrajabhumi. In Srimad-Bhagavatam (3.25.38) the Lord says:

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na karhicin mat-parah santa-rupe

nanksyanti no me 'nimiso ledhi hetih

yesam aham priya atma sutas ca

sakha guruh suhrdo daivam istam

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"The word mat-para is only used to refer to persons who are satisfied with the idea of becoming My adherents alone. They consider that I am their soul, I am their friend, I am their son, I am their master, I am their well-wisher, I am their God, and I am their supreme goal. My dear mother, time does not act on such devotees." In Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu (1.2.308), Rupa Gosvami offers his respectful obeisances to those who always think of Krsna as He is, and His relation as son, well-wisher, brother, father, friend, etc. Whoever follows the principles of devotional service with attachment and follows a particular devotee of Vrajabhumi certainly attains the highest perfection of love of Godhead in that spirit.

 

 

So, we will eventually SELECT a particular devotee of Krishna to follow as our own model of our highest aspiration.

 

That's a free choice, but we have to become pure in order to make that choice.

[Guest guest]

Concerning the ascending abodes B/Vaikunth, Saket, Dwarika, Golok and B/Vrindaban, depending on what form of God that is worshipped when one is ultimately divinized by the grace of the Saint from that particular abode after complete heart purification (true deeksha) which would determine which abode one spends the remainder of eternity, gopas in some of Golok with gopis, however only gopis in B/Vrindaban abode.

[Guest guest]

"So, we will eventually SELECT a particular devotee of Krishna to follow as our own model of our highest aspiration.

 

That's a free choice, but we have to become pure in order to make that choice."

-----------

regarding free choice:

 

Or can it be that we are attracted to choose to following a particular devotee of Krishna as a role model because that is what our original type of relation with Krishna was?

[Guruvani]

 

"So, we will eventually SELECT a particular devotee of Krishna to follow as our own model of our highest aspiration.

 

That's a free choice, but we have to become pure in order to make that choice."

-----------

regarding free choice:

 

Or can it be that we are attracted to choose to following a particular devotee of Krishna as a role model because that is what our original type of relation with Krishna was?

 

That is an old bone of contention argument that has been around for along time.

Best I can do is try to find something in the teachings of Srila Prabhupada to explain.

Sometimes, an acharya might say one thing to neophytes that are just coming in to Krishna consciousness and then reveal something more later on when they are ready to accept it.

 

But the word "attains" has some indication that it is acquired and not necessarily something that was already there.

 

 

Whoever follows the principles of devotional service with attachment and follows a particular devotee of Vrajabhumi certainly attains the highest perfection of love of Godhead in that spirit.

[Guest guest]

Or maybe in our present contaminated state, it is not so important which associate we think we would like to follow, as just that process of thinking, is in itself, purifying. (As long as it is just an internal process and not some thing that causes havoc in the real world we live in now.) Just as, altho. we chant offensively, we have to still chant to purify ourselves, to get to the next stage, maybe thinking at all of any of the associates will help us to eventually get to that next step.

[Guruvani]

The living entity has a dormant innate propensity to love Krishna.

 

 

nitya-siddha krsna-prema 'sadhya' kabhu naya sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya

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SYNONYMS

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nitya-siddha--eternally proved; krsna-prema--love of Krsna; sadhya--to be gained; kabhu--at any time; naya--not; sravana-adi--by hearing, etc.; suddha--purified; citte--in the heart; karaye udaya--awakens.

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TRANSLATION

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"Pure love for Krsna is eternally established in the hearts of living entities. It is not something to be gained from another source. When the heart is purified by hearing and chanting, the living entity naturally awakens.

 

That is a constitutional characteristic of the soul.

 

However, that general innate propensity to love God is given definition in the form of the bhakti-lata-bija that is given by the sad-guru.

 

 

brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān jīva

guru-kṛṣṇa-prasāde pāya bhakti-latā-bīja

 

SYNONYMS

 

 

brahmāṇḍa bhramite — wandering in this universe; kona — some; bhāgyavān — most fortunate; jīva — living being; guru — of the spiritual master; kṛṣṇa — of Kṛṣṇa; prasāde — by the mercy; pāya — gets; bhakti-latā — of the creeper of devotional service; bīja — the seed.

 

 

TRANSLATION

 

 

"According to their karma, all living entities are wandering throughout the entire universe. Some of them are being elevated to the upper planetary systems, and some are going down into the lower planetary systems. Out of many millions of wandering living entities, one who is very fortunate gets an opportunity to associate with a bona fide spiritual master by the grace of Kṛṣṇa. By the mercy of both Kṛṣṇa and the spiritual master, such a person receives the seed of the creeper of devotional service.

 

PURPORT

 

When we speak of brahmāṇḍa, we refer to the whole universe, or to the cluster of many millions of universes. In all the universes there are innumerable planets, and there are innumerable living entities upon those planets — in the air, on land and in the water. There are millions and trillions of living entities everywhere, and they are engaged by māyā in suffering and enjoying the results of their fruitive activity, life after life. This is the position of the materially conditioned living entities. Out of many of these living entities, one who is actually fortunate (bhāgyavān) comes in contact with a bona fide spiritual master by Kṛṣṇa's mercy.

Kṛṣṇa is situated in everyone's heart, and if one desires something, Kṛṣṇa fulfills one's desire. If the living entity by chance or fortune comes in contact with the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement and wishes to associate with that movement, Kṛṣṇa, who is situated in everyone's heart, gives him the chance to meet a bona fide spiritual master. This is called guru-kṛṣṇa-prasāda. Kṛṣṇa is prepared to bestow His mercy upon all living entities, and as soon as a living entity desires the Lord's mercy, the Lord immediately gives him an opportunity to meet a bona fide spiritual master. Such a fortunate person is fortified by both Kṛṣṇa and the spiritual master. He is helped from within by Kṛṣṇa and from without by the spiritual master. Both are prepared to help the sincere living being become free from material bondage.

How one can become this fortunate can be seen in the life of Śrīla Nārada Muni. In his previous life he was born of a maidservant. Although he was not born into a prestigious position, his mother was fortunately engaged in rendering service to some Vaiṣṇavas. When these Vaiṣṇavas were resting during the Cāturmāsya period, the boy Nārada took the opportunity to engage in their service. Taking compassion upon the boy, the Vaiṣṇavas offered him the remnants of their food. By serving these Vaiṣṇavas and obeying their orders, the boy became the object of their sympathy, and by the Vaiṣṇavas' unknown mercy, he gradually became a pure devotee. In the next life he was Nārada Muni, the most exalted of Vaiṣṇavas and the most important guru and ācārya of Vaiṣṇavas.

Following in the footsteps of Nārada Muni, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is rendering service to humanity by giving everyone a chance to come in contact with Kṛṣṇa. If one is fortunate, he becomes intimately related with this movement. Then, by the grace of Kṛṣṇa, one's life becomes successful. Everyone has dormant kṛṣṇa-bhakti — love for Kṛṣṇa — and in the association of good devotees, that love is revealed. As stated in the

 

 

Caitanya-caritāmṛta (Madhya 22.107):

 

 

nitya-siddha-kṛṣṇa-prema 'sādhya' kabhu naya

śravaṇādi-śuddha-citte karaye udaya

 

Dormant devotional service to Kṛṣṇa is within everyone. Simply by associating with devotees, hearing their good instructions and chanting the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, dormant love for Kṛṣṇa is awakened. In this way one acquires the seed of devotional service. Guru-kṛṣṇa-prasāde pāya bhakti-latā-bīja.

 

[Guest guest]

Altho it has not been talked of in the past, it is mentioned by Iskcon's Bhānu Swāmi in his translation of Srīla Rūpa Gosvāmi's Bhakti Rasāmrita Sindhu.

 

In commenting on verse 1.2.295 Bhānu Swāmi says: "The siddha rūpa is given by a Guru on the path of rāgabhakti when he sees the qualification for rāgānuga bhakti and a particular inclination in a particular disciple......Along with the form, specific dress and service for Krishna throughout the day would be given.......forms of manjaris, assistants to the sakhīs of Rādhā, seem to be the most prominent forms given........"

 

Also later Bhānu Swāmi writes about serving in the sādhaka body and the siddha-body: "The idea here is it is simultaneous in rāgānugā bhakti, not at the same instant, but during the same period. For instance, for some hours he will meditate and the rest of the day he will chant, read, and do deity services."

[Guest guest]

Ohhhh dear!

[Guruvani]

 

Altho it has not been talked of in the past, it is mentioned by Iskcon's Bhānu Swāmi in his translation of Srīla Rūpa Gosvāmi's Bhakti Rasāmrita Sindhu.

 

As far as I know, no bona-fide acharya authorized Bhanu Swami to translate the writings of the Goswamis.

 

Service such as that requires specific empowerment by genuine authorities and that does not include the GBC or any so-called ISKCON guru.

 

Srila Prabhupada did not approve of disciples giving alternative translations to books he has already given.

 

Bhanu Swami should consult authorities on the Saraswata doctrine before he goes promoting the siddha-pranali process in his books.

[Guest guest]

I did not attack the teachings of Lord Jesus Christ. What I attacked is a bogus christian ideal of salvation being the4 goal of life. Such salvationism is selfish, leaves no room for the Supreme Lord to get in the way of ones gratification, etc.

 

The desire to be a gopi is a materialistic desire, based on sentiment and nothing approaching gaudiya Vaisnavism. The Vaisnava aspires to be the humble maidservant of the gopis.

 

As far as "attainment" goes, one can "attain" memory once the sleep dissipates. And the Spiritual World is not "out there". The entirity of Goloka Vrndavan is located in the core of the heart of the mahabhagavata. The complete spiritual manifestation of Krsna is contained in one pure utterance of Harinama.

 

I meant no disrespect to any follower of Lord Jesus Christ, but they were not offended, because they, too, disregard the cheap salvationism of religions bearing Lord Jesus Christ's Name.

 

666 equals 9, and nine is the symbol of the Supreme Lord.

 

Haribol, ys, mahaksadasa