Quotes of Narayana Maharaja on Prabhupada's books?

[Guruvani]

Happy New Year!

[Guest guest]

Nectar of Devotion

Chapter Thirty-one

Additional Symptoms

One devotee exclaimed, "Oh, I cannot see the district of Mathura! Even though by simply hearing the name of Mathura the hairs of my body are standing up, I cannot see the place. So of what use are my eyes?" This statement reveals a strong anxiety to see the district of Mathura resulting from a strong attachment to Krsna. There is another instance of this strong attachment for Krsna expressed by Bhima when he began to murmur, "My arms are just like thunderbolts, but despite these arms I could not smash Sisupala while he was blaspheming Krsna. Therefore, of what use are these strong arms?" In this instance Bhima became angry, and being influenced by such anger, his hopelessness became a cause for strong attachment to Krsna. This instance can be described as strong attachment for Krsna in anger.

[Guruvani]

 

Nectar of Devotion

Chapter Thirty-one

Additional Symptoms

One devotee exclaimed, "Oh, I cannot see the district of Mathura! Even though by simply hearing the name of Mathura the hairs of my body are standing up, I cannot see the place. So of what use are my eyes?" This statement reveals a strong anxiety to see the district of Mathura resulting from a strong attachment to Krsna. There is another instance of this strong attachment for Krsna expressed by Bhima when he began to murmur, "My arms are just like thunderbolts, but despite these arms I could not smash Sisupala while he was blaspheming Krsna. Therefore, of what use are these strong arms?" In this instance Bhima became angry, and being influenced by such anger, his hopelessness became a cause for strong attachment to Krsna. This instance can be described as strong attachment for Krsna in anger.

 

Here is another example of anger....

 

"one devotee heard Narayana Maharaja say that there are racist and sexist remarks in the books of Srila Prabhupada and that they were put there by the BBT editors because they had no realization, when in fact these were the words of Srila Prabhupada that Narayana Maharaja says are racist and sexist"

[Shakti-Fan]

 

Narayan Maharaja is a women hater, otherwise he would not have abandoned a devout Hindu wife and his two children to become a bearded holy man living off of the hard-earned money of working detotees

 

There is another instance of this strong attachment for Krsna expressed by Bhima when he began to murmur, "My arms are just like thunderbolts, but despite these arms I could not smash Sisupala while he was blaspheming Krsna. Therefore, of what use are these strong arms?"

Is Guest trying to infer that by attempting to blaspheme Srila Narayana Maharaja, Guruvani is indirectly glorifying him, just as Sisupala did when he blasphemed Krsna?

[Shakti-Fan]

The irony is that Guruvani is using the same "give a dog a bad name and hang it" tactics that the GBC and it's henchman used to attempt to assail the character of Srila Sridhar Maharaja during the early eighties. Of course if you look at some of Guruvani's posts on threads from November and December you will see that he also makes comments about Srila Sridhar Maharaja that many would consider guru and vaisnava aparadhas.

[Guruvani]

 

The irony is that Guruvani is using the same "give a dog a bad name and hang it" tactics that the GBC and it's henchman used to attempt to assail the character of Srila Sridhar Maharaja during the early eighties. Of course if you look at some of Guruvani's posts on threads from November and December you will see that he also makes comments about Srila Sridhar Maharaja that many would consider guru and vaisnava aparadhas.

 

According to the current policy of SCSM, Sridhar Maharaja is dead and gone.

So, how can I offend a guru who is not here to hear my remarks?

I never said anything to Sridhar Maharaja to offend him.

 

If you look back and find my remarks you will find that they were made in response to some very callous and harsh statements being made by the fan club of Sridhar Maharaja about Srila Prabhupada.

 

Sridhar Maharaja said "I am not wholly one with Swami Maharaja".

So, is it a crime if I am not wholly one with Sridhar Maharaja?

[Guest guest]

Didn't ACBSP say that Sridhar Maharaja was a siksa guru to him? So did ACBSP give classes exclusively from the books of Sridhar Maharaja?

 

If not then why are you ranting against something that even ACBSP did not do? Why are you holding BVNM to a different standard than ACBSP?

 

So you can indirectly glorify BVNM? Guess that must be it then, why you feel the need to draw this to everyone's attention: indirect glorification of BVNM.

[theist]

 

Sridhar Maharaja said "I am not wholly one with Swami Maharaja".

So, is it a crime if I am not wholly one with Sridhar Maharaja?

No. Nor is it a crime if one is not wholly with Narayana Maharaja or if students of his prefer to primarily listen to him and read his books.

 

Myself I have only two voices that I want to hear comment on Krsna one is Srila Prabhupada and the other is his disciple. The works of either one is more than I can even begin to digest in this lifetime so I am not looking to Narayan Maharaja or anyone else. Also there is the principle that too many cooks spoil the broth. That is the student can easily become confused on different points and doubts will arise from that confusion.

 

Lord Caitanya has flooded the western world with knowledge of Krsna-bhakti. It's more than we can take in. So maybe it is better not to try and read/hear from all the sources at once and just focus on where you hear the voice of Caitya-guru most clearly. Follow your faith and don't be surprised if Krsna directs others in different directions than He has directed you.

 

This "My guru is bigger than your guru" stuff is childish.

[Avinash]

 

This "My guru is bigger than your guru" stuff is childish.

What are the arguments one can come up with to show that his guru is bigger? Let me think of some:idea: :-

My guru looks more handsome.

My guru has bigger tilak on his forehead.

 

Any more?

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

 

Srila Narayana Maharaja read and knew by heart and SPrabhupada´s books at least 30 years before you get your first book, he just know, no need to read, same when you multiply, you don´t read your table, you already know, you understand?

Srila Prabhupada used to read his own books. There is a letter he wrote to temple devotees saying, "Everyone should read these books, even I am reading these books" (paraphrashed). I don't have time to look up the letter right now, but maybe later I can post it.

[Shakti-Fan]

 

... ranting...

 

So you can indirectly glorify BVNM? Guess that must be it then, why you feel the need to draw this to everyone's attention: indirect glorification of BVNM.

 

...by attempting to blaspheme Srila Narayana Maharaja, Guruvani is indirectly glorifying him, just as Sisupala did when he blasphemed Krsna...

<cite>Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)</cite> <!-- google_ad_region_start=def --> rant –verb (used without object) <table class="luna-Ent"><tbody><tr><td class="dn" valign="top">1.</td><td valign="top">to speak or declaim extravagantly or violently; talk in a wild or vehement way; rave: The demagogue ranted for

hours.

 

<!-- google_ad_region_start=def --> dem·a·gogue /ˈdɛməˌgɒg, -ˌgɔg/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[dem-uh-gog, -gawg] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, -gogued, -gogu·ing. –noun <table class="luna-Ent"><tbody><tr><td class="dn" valign="top">1.</td><td valign="top">a person, esp. an orator or political leader, who gains power and popularity by arousing the emotions, passions, and prejudices of the people. </td></tr></tbody></table> <table class="luna-Ent"><tbody><tr><td class="dn" valign="top">2.</td><td valign="top">(in ancient times) a leader of the people. </td></tr></tbody></table> –verb (used with object) <table class="luna-Ent"><tbody><tr><td class="dn" valign="top">3.</td><td valign="top">to treat or manipulate (a political issue) in the manner of a demagogue; obscure or distort with emotionalism, prejudice, etc. </td></tr></tbody></table> –verb (used without object) <table class="luna-Ent"><tbody><tr><td class="dn" valign="top">4.</td><td valign="top">to speak or act like a demagogue. </td></tr></tbody></table>

Also, dem·a·gog.

 

<hr class="ety">[Origin: 1640–50; < Gk démagōgós a leader of the people, popular leader, equiv. to dêm(os) people + agōgós leading, guiding; see -agogue]

 

 

<!-- google_ad_region_end=def --> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td><cite>Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)

Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.</cite></td></tr></tbody></table> <!-- end luna --> <!-- begin ahd4 --> <cite></cite>

</td></tr></tbody></table>

[Guruvani]

My idea behind this topic was simply to find out if Narayana Maharaja gives classes from the books of Srila Prabhupada, as in my admittedly limited experience I haven't seen that, but now there are some who are telling me that in fact he does occasionaly read from the books of Srila Prabhupada.

 

If Narayana Maharaja does read from the books of Srila Prabhupada, then that is something that increases my appreciation for him quite a bit.

 

However, the BBT editors did not put sexist or racist comments in the books of Srla Prabhupada.

If Narayana Maharaja has objections to some of the things that are written in the books of Srila Prabhupada, then he shouldn't make some wild claim that those things were put int he books by the BBT editors.

That is pure nonsense, but maybe some ridiculous excuse that Jadurani and the gang are feeding Narayana Maharaja.

 

What is Narayana Maharaja talking about?

The so-called racist and sexist views that Narayana Maharaja is objecting to are traditional Vedic views.

 

Srila Prabhupada was making sannyasis, and brahmans out of black men before Narayana Maharaja became a world preacher on the coattails of Srila Prabhuapda, so Narayana Maharaja doesn't need to say that there are racist views in the books of Srila Prabhupada and then blame them on the BBT editors.

 

The very idea that Narayana Maharaja says there are racist and sexist views in the books of Srila Prabhupada is proof that he doesn't understand what Srila Prabhupada has written.

 

What Narayana Maharaja is saying is racist and sexist in the books of Srila Prabhupada are the words of Srila Prabhupada, not the BBT editors.

 

So, in essence Narayana Maharaja has criticised Srila Prabhupada and shown that his understanding of the books of Srila Prabhupada are very superficial and shallow.

 

Then of course, after showing how the books of Srila Prabhupada are racist and sexist, Narayana Maharaja presents himself as the perfect angel with no sexist or racist views, even though he abandoned a devout Hindu wife with two small children to run off and become a "Holy" man.

 

Holy men don't father children and then run off and leave a young wife and innocent children to suffer and struggle without a husband or a father.

To me that is just despicable and a good example of how callous and hard is the heart of Narayana Maharaja.

[Guest guest]

 

Holy men don't father children and then run off and leave a young wife and innocent children to suffer and struggle without a husband or a father.

To me that is just despicable and a good example of how callous and hard is the heart of Narayana Maharaja.

 

Sounds like something my wife would say.

Nobody feels any pain

Tonight as I stand inside the rain

Ev'rybody knows

That Baby's got new clothes

But lately I see her ribbons and her bows

Have fallen from her curls.

She takes just like a woman, yes, she does

She makes love just like a woman, yes, she does

And she aches JUST LIKE A WOMEN

BUT SHE BREAKS JUST LIKE A LITTLE GIRL.

 

Oh, how sad; the material world is temporary and illusory. Boo Hoo

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

I think if anyone not connected with these various sides were to look at the situation (without considering the people involved as pure devotees), the objective view would be that Narayana Maharaja has probably never read Prabhupada's books. I am not saying this as a criticism.

[theist]

 

What are the arguments one can come up with to show that his guru is bigger? Let me think of some:idea: :-

My guru looks more handsome.

My guru has bigger tilak on his forehead.

 

Any more?

 

Wears more beads.

Sits on a bigger Vyasasana.

[cbrahma]

His disciples can beat you up or use a bigger font (especially bold).

[Shakti-Fan]

 

I think if anyone not connected with these various sides were to look at the situation (without considering the people involved as pure devotees), the objective view would be that Narayana Maharaja has probably never read Prabhupada's books. I am not saying this as a criticism.

 

 

Actually he gave an entire series of lectures from Prabhupada's "Nectar of Instruction" and that was edited then published as a book.

 

I have also heard recordings of these classes. Each translation and purport of Srila Prabhupada's "Nectar of Instruction" was read aloud and then Srila Narayana Maharaja would lecture. In my opinion it is safe to say that Srila Narayana Maharaja has heard or read some of Srila Prabhupada's books but has not read all of them.

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[Guruvani]

 

I have also heard recordings of these classes. Each translation and purport of Srila Prabhupada's "Nectar of Instruction" was read aloud and then Srila Narayana Maharaja would lecture. In my opinion it is safe to say that Srila Narayana Maharaja has heard or read some of Srila Prabhupada's books but has not read all of them.

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But, is Narayana Maharaja actually using Srila Prabhupada's books as a foundation or as "bait" to fish in devotees and then tell them that their are racist and sexist views in the books of Srila Prabhupada?

One minute of the books and then one hour of Narayana Maharaja is not objectively any genuine preaching from the books of Srila Prabhupada.

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

 

...has heard or read some of Srila Prabhupada's books but has not read all of them.

That's more or less what I meant. He is aware of some of the things Srila Prabhupada has taught, but he has not studied thoroughly everything Srila Prabhupada wrote.

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

 

One minute of the books and then one hour or Narayana Maharaja is not objectively any genuine preaching from the books of Srila Prabhupada.

If you look at the quotes the guest provided in the first page of this thread, you will notice in every case Narayana Maharaja tried to stress his own books as being equal to Srila Prabhupada's books. For example:

 

 

"Read the books of your Prabhupada, and also my books. My books will give you further strength to defeat all the arguments against him."

 

 

It was possible because he translated so many authorized books, like Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Srimad Bhagavatam and Sri Bhagavad-gita as it is, and he ordered his disciples to distribute them in public places – includingeven churches, airports, supermarkets, and railway stations...

 

By this kirtana, and by writing and distributing books, almost the entire world knew about him; and this mission was preached everywhere in a couple of years. I also want this. Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja is my siksa-guru. Also, my diksa gurudeva, Srila Bhaktiprajnana Kesava Gosvami Maharaja, told me to translate books, from their original languages, and I am doing so. Up to now, about 50 books have been published, and they are both supplementary and complementary to the books of Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja.

 

Always remember to read my books and the books of Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja, and try to understand them.

 

In ISKCON the stress is always on reading Srila Prabhupada's books, whereas Narayana Maharaja seems to be first showing Prabhupada's books to get his own books read. If he just told people "Read my books" no one would listen, but if he first says "read Prabhupada's books, and also my books" then some people will go for it.

 

If any other ISKCON guru were to stress their own books as being equal or superior to Srila Prabhupada's books people would laugh at them before throwing them out the door.

[Guruvani]

 

If you look at the quotes the guest provided in the first page of this thread, you will notice in every case Narayana Maharaja tried to stress his own books as being equal to Srila Prabhupada's books. For example:

 

 

 

 

In ISKCON the stress is always on reading Srila Prabhupada's books, whereas Narayana Maharaja seems to be first showing Prabhupada's books to get his own books read. If he just told people "Read my books" no one would listen, but if he first says "read Prabhupada's books, and also my books" then some people will go for it.

 

If any other ISKCON guru were to stress their own books as being equal or superior to Srila Prabhupada's books people would laugh at them before throwing them out the door.

 

And Srila Prabhupada stressed in his own books that the devotees of ISKCON should limit their study to his four books: Bhagavat-gita, Nectar of Devotion, Chaitanya Caritamrita and Srimad Bhagavatam, so that leaves no room for reading these other books being written by Narayana Maharaja.

 

If Narayan Maharaja was a genuine "siksha disciple" of Srila Prabhupada he would not even be translating all these other books, but simply reading and preaching exclusively from the books of Srila Prabhupada that Srila Prabhupada mentioned his disciples to limit themselves too.

 

The books of Narayana Maharaja are not authorized reading for the disciples and followers of Srila Prabhupada.

[cbrahma]

Wasn't the zonal acarya fiasco in part due to Narayana Maharaja's advice?

Didn't the Gaudiya Math suffer the same fate for exacly the same reasons?

There are quotes from Prabhupada that forbade his disciples from taking instruction from his godbrothers. All in all it's a risky business.

[Guruvani]

 

Wasn't the zonal acarya fiasco in part due to Narayana Maharaja's advice?

Didn't the Gaudiya Math suffer the same fate for exacly the same reasons?

There are quotes from Prabhupada that forbade his disciples from taking instruction from his godbrothers. All in all it's a risky business.

 

The Gaudiya system is to become self-realized through assimilating the message of Srimad Bhagavatam.

Srila Prabhupada, not Narayana Maharaja, Sridhar Maharaja or anyone else has given Srimad Bhagavatam to the English speaking world.

 

When we become self-realized by assimilating the message of Srimad Bhagavatam as given by Srila Prabhupada, then maybe we can move on to books of Narayana Maharaja.

First, become self-realized and attain svarupa-siddhi through the pages of Srila Prabhupada's Srimada Bhagavatam.

 

We can know our own svarupa through the Bhagavatam and also the svarupa of Srila Prabhupada in the words of Srimad Bhagavatam.

 

Until we attain that, we don't need to be reading rasa-shastra that is being translated by Narayana Maharaja and distributed to an unfit and unqualified public.

[Shakti-Fan]

 

But, is Narayana Maharaja actually using Srila Prabhupada's books as a foundation or as "bait" to fish in devotees and then tell them that their are racist and sexist views in the books of Srila Prabhupada?

One minute of the books and then one hour of Narayana Maharaja is not objectively any genuine preaching from the books of Srila Prabhupada.

It is you with your cultural conditioning that are saying that certain views are "racist and sexist". In his speech "The Bhagavat" Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur says that even transcendental writers must be viewed in relation to the times and culture in which they lived and preached. He also said that "no book is perfect".

 

Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 1.5.11

tad-vāg-visargo janatāgha-viplavo

yasmin prati-ślokam abaddhavaty api

nāmāny anantasya yaśo 'ńkitāni yat

śṛṇvanti gāyanti gṛṇanti sādhavaḥ

 

On the other hand, that literature which is full of descriptions of the transcendental glories of the name, fame, forms, pastimes, etc., of the unlimited Supreme Lord is a different creation, full of transcendental words directed toward bringing about a revolution in the impious lives of this world's misdirected civilization. Such transcendental literatures, even though imperfectly composed, are heard, sung and accepted by purified men who are thoroughly honest.

According to Srila Sridhar Maharaja the scriptures are the recorded sound vibrations of the sadhus or "sages".

The concept of "as it is" presented by Srila Prabhupada is not necessarily siddhantic and is more in the realm of a preaching technique. The concept of "subjective evolution of consciousness" presented by Srila Sridhar Maharaja is more in the line of siddhanta. Although Srila Prabhupada did not use that terminology he certainly knew it but was reluctant to give such subtle concepts to his followers for fear that they would misinterpret such concepts and return to impersonalism.

If one mistakenly applies "as it is" to siddhanta avoiding the subtle concepts of Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur, Srila Saraswati Thakur and Srila Sridhar Maharaja they become a sentimental literist and therefore a superfundamentalist fanatic. This phenomena is certainly to be seen in the so-called "Prabhupadanuga" and rtvik section wherein they totally misinterpret Srila Prabhupada's teachings for they divorce him from the entire guru varga. Like I have said before, it is as if Guruvani has never been exposed to the teachings of Srila Sridhar Maharaja, otherwise it would not be possible for him to continue with his preposterous ideas.

[Shakti-Fan]

 

The Gaudiya system is to become self-realized through assimilating the message of Srimad Bhagavatam.

Srila Prabhupada, not Narayana Maharaja, Sridhar Maharaja or anyone else has given Srimad Bhagavatam to the English speaking world.

 

When we become self-realized by assimilating the message of Srimad Bhagavatam as given by Srila Prabhupada, then maybe we can move on to books of Narayana Maharaja.

 

Then why don't you just say, When we become self-realized by assimilating the message of Srimad Bhagavatam as given by Srila Prabhupada, then maybe we can move on to books of Sridhar Maharaja and Narayana Maharaja.

Answer: You are not thinking deeply enough about these topics to show any "intellectual integrety". You use fallacious logic and are inconsitant in the views that you put forth. If you did this in a college debate you wouldn't just loose, you would immediately be disqualified.