Quotes of Narayana Maharaja on Prabhupada's books?

[Guest guest]

There is plenty. Read the verses by Krishna in the Bhagavat Gita about the continuation of parampara. Also, read his instruction to approach a bonafide devotee and hear from him, which defeats your book-vadi philosophy.

 

 

There is no shastric injunction against a ritvik system.

 

 

 

Srila Prabhupada should have then simply initiated all disciples as disciples of Srila Vyasadeva. But everyone knows that wasn't the case. So your premise is false.

 

 

All the gurus and acharyas are simply ritviks of Vyasadeva.

So, the idea of being a ritvik of Srila Prabhupada is very much in line with the Bhagavat siddhanta.

[Guruvani]

 

There is plenty. Read the verses by Krishna in the Bhagavat Gita about the continuation of parampara. Also, read his instruction to approach a bonafide devotee and hear from him, which defeats your book-vadi philosophy.

 

 

 

 

Srila Prabhupada should have then simply initiated all disciples as disciples of Srila Vyasadeva. But everyone knows that wasn't the case. So your premise is false.

 

Parampara is about knowledge descending intact.

It is not about one embodied person comiing in contact with another embodied person.

 

You have obviously missed the whole concept of parampara and been duped by the Vapuvadis who need disciples, money and prestige.

 

Srila Prabhupada demonstrates many times in his books that parampara is about knowledge descending properly and unadulterated.

 

The Vapuvadi myth that parampara is a succession of bodies has been defeated soundly by Srila Prabhupada and Sridhar Maharaja both, but you obviously have ignored those instructions in favor of being duped by some cheater who is pretending to be guru.

 

Why don't you get your head out of your guru's posterior and read the books of Srila Prabhupada and learn what the concept of parampara is really about?

It's about descending knowledge.

It's not about a chain of physical succession.

 

Maybe because you also want to perpetuate the myth of Vapuvadism and the process of the cheaters and the cheated?

 

Are the Vapuvadi zombies going to rule the world, or is spiritual knowledge going to get it's proper recognition?

[Guest guest]

 

I couldn't care less if the ISKCON guru system is the best or worst.

 

What I'm saying is simple ... The parampara doesn't end with Srila Prabhupada, as the ritviks claim. It doesn't take much to understand this. Give it a shot.

 

You dont even know what the parampara is - otherwise you wouldnt make such a statement. Only Krishna decides whats going to happen with the parampara and who is getting His mercy through the parampara. Parampara is not just an instrument to transport knowledge but the very installement of the Supreme Lord for receiving our devotional activities. If people quarrel about who is a member of the parampara and who is not, the whole principle of devotional service is not understood.

Therefore Krishna says - you should only search for a spiritual master who can actually see Krishna. Because Srila Prabhupada sees Krishna, therefore he came to preach and give Krishna-bhakti to the whole world. Others who dont see Krishna remained stuck in selfishness and didnt preach. Therefore Krishna says, they are not tattva-darsinah. If they're not tattva-darsinah they are not qualified to be member of Sri parampara - it is that simple.

Please either accept Prabhupada as bona fide spiritual master or wait for another powerful acarya who makes people chant Hare Krishna in the whole world. Everybody else who doesnt cause the whole world to chant Hare Krishna is not an acarya but a neophyte beginner. Why do we need neophytes to sit on the vyasasana? This is cheating!

 

tad viddhi pranipatena

pariprasnena sevaya

upadeksyanti te jnanam

jnaninas tattva-darsinah

 

“Just try to learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master. Inquire from him submissively and render service unto him. The self-realized soul can impart knowledge unto you because he has seen the truth.”

(Bhagavad-gita 4.34)

[Guest guest]

Oh yeah, well that an 10 rupees will get you a gulabjamon in Vrndavana!

[Guruvani]

 

If you all remember about six weeks ago:

 

 

I made up the word "vapuvada"!

and you didn't!

 

 

 

Not really.

I just did a Google search and I found reference to the term "Vapuvadi" that goes back at least as far as 1999.

However, the first result I got from Google was my mention of the term "Vapuvadi" in this post....

 

http://www.audarya-fellowship.com/forums/1026848-post49.html

[Guest guest]

I accept Srila Prabhupada as a bonafide Acarya. But sorry, I do not to your 'frog in the well' proposition that Srila Prabhupada is the only genuine Acarya. There were quite a few in his time and there are quite a few now. I bow down to all of them, thank you.

 

 

Please either accept Prabhupada as bona fide spiritual master or wait for another powerful acarya who makes people chant Hare Krishna in the whole world. Everybody else who doesnt cause the whole world to chant Hare Krishna is not an acarya but a neophyte beginner. Why do we need neophytes to sit on the vyasasana? This is cheating!

 

[Guruvani]

 

I accept Srila Prabhupada as a bonafide Acarya. But sorry, I do not to your 'frog in the well' proposition that Srila Prabhupada is the only genuine Acarya. There were quite a few in his time and there are quite a few now. I bow down to all of them, thank you.

 

More Vapuvadi propaganda.

This line "your 'frog in the well' proposition that Srila Prabhupada is the only genuine Acarya" is the classic Vapuvadi misinformation campaign that is based upon a lie.

 

One or two IRM fanatics have taken that position, so now you want to accuse everybody who doesn't buy your Vapuvada propaganda as being like them.

 

Well, you are just wrong.

If you got your head out of your guru's dhoti long enough to pay attention you would already see that.

[Beggar]

I also found it on a The Sri Guru is Always Manifested thread from 12/14/06 www.audarya-fellowship.com/forums/spiritual-discussions/<wbr>432104-sri-guru-always-manifested-6.html - 154k - Supplemental Result -

The real answer if that the words vapuvada and vapuvadi are eternal. Sometimes they are manifest and sometimes they are not.

[Guest guest]

If you read the books properly & without envy, you would realize your own 'frog in the well' mentality!

 

 

More Vapuvadi propaganda.

This line "your 'frog in the well' proposition that Srila Prabhupada is the only genuine Acarya" is the classic Vapuvadi misinformation campaign that is based upon a lie.

 

One or two IRM fanatics have taken that position, so now you want to accuse everybody who doesn't buy your Vapuvada propaganda as being like them.

 

Well, you are just wrong.

If you got your head out of your guru's dhoti long enough to pay attention you would already see that.

[Guest guest]

 

I accept Srila Prabhupada as a bonafide Acarya. But sorry, I do not to your 'frog in the well' proposition that Srila Prabhupada is the only genuine Acarya. There were quite a few in his time and there are quite a few now. I bow down to all of them, thank you.

 

For you just anyone who makes your mind feel good is acarya? Why not then just say everybody is acarya? The only problem is that all your acaryas dont preach. Who starts to chant Hare Krishna when meeting with your acaryas? So far we see presently only people gradually stopping to chant the Holy Names.

Temples getting evacuated, Namahatta centers are closing...even yatras getting closed.

Why is this? Acaryas who are blocked and cannot impart spiritual faith which causes people to start chanting Hare Krishna? Acaryas who are not yet ready but who will do in future? This is all speculation and NOT supported by sastra! Sastra says, a bona fide spiritual master is an uttama adikary who makes the whole world connected with bhakti-yoga and everybody starts to chant. Last week Narayana Maharaja was here - but nobody started to chant Hare Krishna. Is this acarya? Sastra says clearly NO. Acarya is something else - pure devotee of the Lord.

[Guruvani]

 

If you read the books properly & without envy, you would realize your own 'frog in the well' mentality!

BG ch.4 text 2 purport,

Since there is a great need of an edition of the Gita in English, as it is received by the parampara (disciplic succession) system, an attempt is made herewith to fulfill this great want. Bhagavad-gita--accepted as it is--is a great boon to humanity; but if it is accepted as a treatise of philosophical speculations, it is simply a waste of time.

So, Srila Prabhupada's gita is PARAMPARA.

Parampara is not your Vapuvadi myth.

[Guest guest]

 

=Last week Narayana Maharaja was here - but nobody started to chant Hare Krishna. Is this acarya? Sastra says clearly NO. Acarya is something else - pure devotee of the Lord.

Everyone was chanting except for you. You just don't have the ears to hear of the eyes to see who is pure devotee.

[Guest guest]

You can remain in denial and spout out your book-vadi'ism all you like but that won;t change what the Lord says in Bhagavad Gita.

 

tad viddhi pranipatena

pariprasnena sevaya

upadeksyanti te jnanam

jnaninas tattva-darsinah

 

“Just try to learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master. Inquire from him submissively and render service unto him. The self-realized soul can impart knowledge unto you because he has seen the truth.”

 

He didn't say 'approach a book'.

 

 

BG ch.4 text 2 purport,

So, Srila Prabhupada's gita is PARAMPARA.

Parampara is not your Vapuvadi myth.

[Guest guest]

Excuse me if this sounds blunt but do you think you're qualified to speak critically about a great devotee like Narayana Maharaja? I'll leave it at that.

 

 

For you just anyone who makes your mind feel good is acarya? Why not then just say everybody is acarya? The only problem is that all your acaryas dont preach. Who starts to chant Hare Krishna when meeting with your acaryas? So far we see presently only people gradually stopping to chant the Holy Names.

Temples getting evacuated, Namahatta centers are closing...even yatras getting closed.

Why is this? Acaryas who are blocked and cannot impart spiritual faith which causes people to start chanting Hare Krishna? Acaryas who are not yet ready but who will do in future? This is all speculation and NOT supported by sastra! Sastra says, a bona fide spiritual master is an uttama adikary who makes the whole world connected with bhakti-yoga and everybody starts to chant. Last week Narayana Maharaja was here - but nobody started to chant Hare Krishna. Is this acarya? Sastra says clearly NO. Acarya is something else - pure devotee of the Lord.

[Guest guest]

 

Excuse me if this sounds blunt but do you think you're qualified to speak critically about a great devotee like Narayana Maharaja? I'll leave it at that.

 

You're leaving it? Please dont leave your path back to home back to Godhead!

Narayana Maharaja is surely great! Now lets pray to Srila Prabhupada so that people also start to actually chant Hare Krishna and become spiritually happy and make their lives successful. This is Lord Caitanya's Sankirtan Movement.

-----------------

 

O son of Maharaja Nanda (Krsna], I am Your eternal servitor, yet somehow or other I have fallen into the ocean of birth and death. Please pick me up from this ocean of death and place me as one of the atoms at Your lotus feet.

[Guruvani]

 

You can remain in denial and spout out your book-vadi'ism all you like but that won;t change what the Lord says in Bhagavad Gita.

 

tad viddhi pranipatena

pariprasnena sevaya

upadeksyanti te jnanam

jnaninas tattva-darsinah

 

“Just try to learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master. Inquire from him submissively and render service unto him. The self-realized soul can impart knowledge unto you because he has seen the truth.”

 

He didn't say 'approach a book'.

No, he said to follow the instructions of the bona-fide acharya.

We find those instructions in his books.

 

Srila Prabhupada said:

 

Everything I know I wrote in my books. Other than that I have no knowledge.

So, Srila Prabhupada said he had nothing else to teach other than what he wrote in his books, so there is no need to physically approach him for receiving of knowledge.

We approach a guru to get knowledge.

Srila Prabhupada said that everything he had to teach was in his books.

 

Again, your vapuvadi nonsense is an offense to everything Srila Prabhupada tried to accomplish with his book ministry.

[Guest guest]

Now that, I agree with 100%!

 

 

You're leaving it? Please dont leave your path back to home back to Godhead!

Narayana Maharaja is surely great! Now lets pray to Srila Prabhupada so that people also start to actually chant Hare Krishna and become spiritually happy and make their lives successful. This is Lord Caitanya's Sankirtan Movement.

-----------------

 

O son of Maharaja Nanda (Krsna], I am Your eternal servitor, yet somehow or other I have fallen into the ocean of birth and death. Please pick me up from this ocean of death and place me as one of the atoms at Your lotus feet.

[AncientMariner]

 

I could just as well say that all the promotion of "traditional" parampara amongst a cult of reformed (supposedly) derelicts who have been falling down right and left since the passing of Srila Prabhupada is MINDLESS.

 

It obviously is, as there are thousands of victims of these MINDLESS gurus all over the world to testify that the ISKCON guru system has failed, is failing and will fail indefinitely as long as neophyte devotees attempt to artificically ascend to the platform of being more important than God himself.

 

The Gaudiya tradition is that devotees of the topmost platform have done the work of diksha guru.

 

This new fad of becoming guru even though one is just a neophyte struggling with a conditoned mind has nothing to do with the Gaudiya tradition.

The Gaudiya tradition is not a heritage of cheaters and the cheated.

But, that is what the GBC guru system is promoting today.

 

There is no shastric injunction against a ritvik system.

In fact the authority and power that shastra gives to the great acharyas is well within the range of establishing a ritvik system.

 

The ritvik system is inherint in the Bhagavat culture, as all gurus in the Gaudiya line are supposed to have the seat of Vyasadeva: the Vyasasan.

 

All gurus in the Gaudiya line are simply representatives of Vyasadeva.

That is why THE BIG SEAT is called the "VYASASANA".

 

All the gurus and acharyas are simply ritviks of Vyasadeva.

So, the idea of being a ritvik of Srila Prabhupada is very much in line with the Bhagavat siddhanta.

 

The post-samadhi history of ISKCON is all the proof we need that the ritvik system was authorized and essential for the upkeep of ISKCON.

 

Chanting the Holy Name is the Yuga-Dharma.

It's everyone's God given right to chant the Holy Name. Mahaprabhu gave the authority for everyone to chant the Holy Name.

You don't need "initiation" into the Holy Name.

You just need to hear it from any devotee of the Krishna consciousness movement and you have already been initiated.

 

The Maha-mantra is above all other mantras and all other Vedic mantras are contained within the Maha-mantra.

The Gayatri mantras are contained within the Maha-mantra.

Chanting the Maha-mantra already includes whatever is contained within the Gayatri mantras.

 

For the most part, the so-called "diksha" that is going on all over the world now is just an international fraud that has no genuine spiritual significance.

It's a cheap imitation of the real thing.

It's not "diksha" as is known in the shastra.

 

 

For what it is worth I don't think you are a crazy lone wolf etc. I think you make some good points and personally I have no hostility at all towards ritviks and find most of them I have communcated on the internet to be very friendly and knowledgable.. I never have been fully able to understand all those legal documents involved in the ritvik argument so I don't have any definitive conclusion on ritvikism but it sounds reasonable to me that someone can act as a representative of the acarya but on the same hand I can understand the 'living guru' crowds argument that the parampara doesn't end with Prabhupada and even if Prabhupada did set up a ritvik system who is giving the people now involved with Iskcon the authority to initiate on behalf of Prabhupada? That is the question that ultimately makes me wonder how ritvik is any better than the living guru position. The main thing I go by now is all the quotes that Prabhupada provided saying that just by reading and chanting you are initiated, it kind of makes all this other stuff irrelevant in my opinion.

[Guest guest]

Śrī Caitanya Caritāmṛta Madhya 22.74

 

arcāyām eva haraye pūjāḿ yaḥ śraddhayehate

na tad-bhakteṣu cānyeṣu

sa bhaktaḥ prākṛtaḥ smṛtaḥ

 

SYNONYMS

 

arcāyām — in the temple worship; eva — certainly; haraye — for the pleasure of the Supreme Personality of Godhead; pūjām — worship; yaḥ — anyone who; śraddhayā — with faith and love; īhate — executes; na — not; tat-bhakteṣu — to the devotees of the Lord; ca anyeṣu — and to others; saḥ — he; bhaktaḥ — a devotee; prākṛtaḥ — materialistic; smṛtaḥ — is considered.

 

TRANSLATION

 

"'A prākṛta-bhakta, or materialistic devotee, does not purposefully study the śāstra and try to understand the actual standard of pure devotional service. Consequently <b>he does not show proper respect to advanced devotees</b>. He may, however, follow the regulative principles learned from his spiritual master or from his family who worships the Deity. He is to be considered on the material platform, although he is trying to advance in devotional service. Such a person is a bhakta-prāya [neophyte devotee], or bhaktābhāsa, for he is a little enlightened by Vaiṣṇava philosophy.'

 

PURPORT

 

This verse is also from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam (11.2.47). Śrīla Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says that one who has full love for the Supreme Personality of Godhead and who maintains a good friendship with the Lord's devotees is always callous to those who envy Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's devotees. Such a person is to be considered an intermediate devotee. He becomes a first-class devotee when, in the course of advancing in devotional service, he feels an intimate relationship with all living entities, seeing them as part and parcel of the Supreme Person.

[Guest guest]

Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: The Nectar of Instruction 4

 

dadāti pratigṛhṇāti

 

guhyam ākhyāti pṛcchati

 

bhuńkte bhojayate caiva

 

ṣaḍ-vidhaḿ prīti-lakṣaṇam

 

SYNONYMS

 

dadāti — gives charity; pratigṛhṇāti — accepts in return; guhyam — confidential topics; ākhyāti — explains; pṛcchati — enquires; bhuńkte — eats; bhojayate — feeds; ca — also; eva — certainly; ṣaṭ-vidham — six kinds; prīti — of love; lakṣaṇam — symptoms.

 

TRANSLATION

 

Offering gifts in charity, accepting charitable gifts, revealing one's mind in confidence, inquiring confidentially, accepting prasāda and offering prasāda are the six symptoms of love shared by one devotee and another.

 

PURPORT

 

In this verse Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī explains how to perform devotional activities in the association of other devotees. There are six kinds of activities: (1) giving charity to the devotees, (2) accepting from the devotees whatever they may offer in return, (3) opening one's mind to the devotees, (4) inquiring from them about the confidential service of the Lord, (5) honoring prasāda, or spiritual food, given by the devotees, and (6) feeding the devotees with prasāda. An experienced devotee explains, and an inexperienced devotee learns from him. This is guhyam ākhyāti pṛcchati. When a devotee distributes prasāda, remnants of food offered to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, in order to maintain our spirit of devotional service we must accept this prasāda as the Lord's grace received through the pure devotees. We should also invite pure devotees to our home, offer them prasāda and be prepared to please them in all respects. This is called bhuńkte bhojayate caiva.

 

Even in ordinary social activities, these six types of dealings between two loving friends are absolutely necessary. For instance, when one businessman wishes to contact another businessman he arranges a feast in a hotel, and over the feast openly expresses what he wishes to do. He then inquires from his business friend how he should act, and sometimes presents are exchanged. Thus whenever there is a dealing of prīti, or love in intimate dealings, these six activities are executed. In the previous verse, Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī advised that one should renounce worldly association and keep company with the devotees (sańga-tyāgāt sato vṛtteḥ). The International Society for Krishna Consciousness has been established to facilitate these six kinds of loving exchanges between devotees. This Society was started single-handedly, but because people are coming forward and dealing with the give-and-take policy, the Society is now expanding all over the world. We are glad that people are donating very liberally to the development of the Society's activities, and people are also eagerly accepting whatever humble contribution we are giving them in the shape of books and magazines dealing strictly with the subject matter of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We sometimes hold Hare Kṛṣṇa festivals and invite life members and friends to participate in the feasting by accepting prasāda. Although most of our members come from the higher rungs of society, they nonetheless come and take whatever little prasāda we are able to offer them. Sometimes the members and supporters inquire very confidentially about the methods of performing devotional service, and we try to explain this. In this way our Society is successfully spreading all over the world, and the intelligentsia of all countries is gradually appreciating our Kṛṣṇa conscious activities. The life of the Kṛṣṇa conscious society is nourished by these six types of loving exchange among the members; therefore people must be given the chance to associate with the devotees of ISKCON because simply by reciprocating in the six ways mentioned above an ordinary man can fully revive his dormant Kṛṣṇa consciousness. In Bhagavad-gītā (2.62) it is stated, sańgāt sañjāyate kāmaḥ: one's desires and ambitions develop according to the company one keeps. It is often said that a man is known by his company, and if an ordinary man associates with devotees, he will certainly develop his dormant Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The understanding of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is innate in every living entity, and it is already developed to some extent when the living entity takes a human body. It is said in Caitanya-caritāmṛta (Madhya 22.107):

 

nitya-siddha kṛṣṇa-prema 'sādhya' kabhu naya

 

śravaṇādi-śuddha-citte karaye udaya

 

"Pure love for Kṛṣṇa is eternally established in the hearts of living entities. It is not something to be gained from another source. When the heart is purified by hearing and chanting, the living entity naturally awakens." Since Kṛṣṇa consciousness is inherent in every living entity, everyone should be given a chance to hear about Kṛṣṇa. Simply by hearing and chanting — śravaṇaḿ kīrtanam — one's heart is directly purified, and one's original Kṛṣṇa consciousness is immediately awakened. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not artificially imposed upon the heart, it is already there. When one chants the holy name of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the heart is cleansed of all mundane contamination. In the first stanza of His Śrī Śikṣāṣṭaka, Lord Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu says:

 

ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇaḿ

 

śreyaḥ-kairava-candrikā-vitaraṇaḿ vidyā-vadhū-jīvanam

 

ānandāmbudhi-vardhanaḿ prati-padaḿ pūrṇāmṛtāsvādanaḿ

 

sarvātma-snapanaḿ paraḿ vijayate śrī-kṛṣṇa-sańkīrtanam

 

[Cc. Antya 20.12]

 

"All glories to the Śrī Kṛṣṇa sańkīrtana, which cleanses the heart of all the dust accumulated for years and extinguishes the fire of conditional life, of repeated birth and death. This sańkīrtana movement is the prime benediction for humanity at large because it spreads the rays of the benediction moon. It is the life of all transcendental knowledge. It increases the ocean of transcendental bliss, and it enables us to fully taste the nectar for which we are always anxious."

 

Not only is the chanter of the mahā-mantra purified, but the heart of anyone who happens to hear the transcendental vibration of Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare is also cleansed. Even the souls embodied in lower animals, insects, trees and other species of life also become purified and prepared to become fully Kṛṣṇa conscious simply by hearing the transcendental vibration. This was explained by Ṭhākura Haridāsa when Caitanya Mahāprabhu inquired from him how living entities lower than human beings can be delivered from material bondage. Haridāsa Ṭhākura said that the chanting of the holy names is so powerful that even if one chants in the remotest parts of the jungle, the trees and animals will advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness simply by hearing the vibration. This was actually proved by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu Himself when He passed through the forest of Jhārikhaṇḍa. At that time the tigers, snakes, deer and all other animals abandoned their natural animosity and began chanting and dancing in sańkīrtana. Of course, we cannot imitate the activities of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, but we should follow in His footsteps. We are not powerful enough to enchant the lower animals such as tigers, snakes, cats and dogs or entice them to dance, but by chanting the holy names of the Lord we can actually convert many people throughout the world to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Contributing or distributing the holy name of the Lord is a sublime example of contributing or giving charity (the dadāti principle). By the same token, one must also follow the pratigṛhṇāti principle and be willing and ready to receive the transcendental gift. One should inquire about the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement and open his mind in order to understand the situation of this material world. Thus the guhyam ākhyāti pṛcchati principles can be served.

 

The members of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness invite the Society's members and supporters to dine with them when they hold love feasts in all their branches every Sunday. Many interested people come to honor prasāda, and whenever possible they invite members of the Society to their homes and feed them sumptuously with prasāda. In this way both the members of the Society and the general public are benefited. People should give up the company of so-called yogīs, jñānīs, karmīs and philanthropists because their association can benefit no one. If one really wants to attain the goal of human life, he should associate with devotees of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement because it is the only movement that teaches one how to develop love of God. Religion is the special function of human society, and it constitutes the distinction between human society and animal society. Animal society has no church, mosque or religious system. In all parts of the world, however downtrodden human society may be, there is some system of religion. Even tribal aborigines in the jungles also have a system of religion. When a religious system develops and turns into love of God, it is successful. As stated in the First Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam (1.2.6):

 

sa vai puḿsāḿ paro dharmo

 

yato bhaktir adhokṣaje

 

ahaituky apratihatā

 

yayātmā suprasīdati

 

"The supreme occupation [dharma] for all humanity is that by which men can attain to loving devotional service unto the transcendent Lord. Such devotional service must be unmotivated and uninterrupted in order to completely satisfy the self."

 

If the members of human society actually want Peace of mind, tranquillity and friendly relations between men and nations, they must follow the Kṛṣṇa conscious system of religion, by which they can develop their dormant love for Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. As soon as people do so, their minds will immediately be filled with peace and tranquillity.

 

In this regard, Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura warns all devotees engaged in broadcasting the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement not to speak to the impersonalist Māyāvādīs who are always determined to oppose such theistic movements. The world is full of Māyāvādīs and atheists, and the political parties of the world take advantage of Māyāvāda and other atheistic philosophies to promote materialism. Sometimes they even back a strong party to oppose the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. The Māyāvādīs and other atheists do not want the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement to develop because it educates people in God consciousness. Such is the policy of the atheists. There is no benefit in feeding a snake milk and bananas because the snake will never be satisfied. On the contrary, by taking milk and bananas the snake simply becomes more poisonous (kevalaḿ viṣa-vardhanam). If a snake is given milk to drink, its poison simply increases. For a similar reason, we should not disclose our minds to the serpent Māyāvādīs and karmīs. Such disclosures will never help. It is best to avoid association with them completely and never ask them about anything confidential because they cannot give good advice. Nor should we extend invitations to Māyāvādīs and atheists nor accept their invitations, for by such intimate intermingling we may become affected by their atheistic mentality (sańgāt sañjāyate kāmaḥ). It is the negative injunction of this verse that we should refrain from giving anything to or accepting anything from the Māyāvādīs and atheists. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu has also warned, viṣayīra anna khāile duṣṭa haya mana: "By eating food prepared by worldly people, one s mind becomes wicked. Unless one is very advanced, he is unable to utilize everyone's contribution to further the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement; therefore on principle one should not accept charity from the Māyāvādīs or atheists. Indeed, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu has forbidden devotees to associate even with ordinary men who are too addicted to material sense gratification.

 

The conclusion is that we should always keep company with devotees, observe the regulative devotional principles, follow in the footsteps of the ācāryas and in full obedience carry out the orders of the spiritual master. In this way we shall be able to develop our devotional service and dormant Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The devotee who is neither a neophyte nor a mahā-bhāgavata (a greatly advanced devotee) but is within the middle status of devotional service is expected to love the Supreme Personality of Godhead, make friends with the devotees, show favor to the ignorant and reject the jealous and demoniac. In this verse there is brief mention of the process of making loving transactions with the Supreme Personality of Godhead and making friends with the devotees. According to the dadāti principle, an advanced devotee is supposed to spend at least fifty percent of his income on the service of the Lord and His devotees. Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī has set such an example in his life. When he decided to retire, he distributed fifty percent of his life's earnings to Kṛṣṇa's service and twenty-five percent to his relatives and kept twenty-five percent for personal emergencies. This example should be followed by all devotees. Whatever one's income, fifty percent should be spent on behalf of Kṛṣṇa and His devotees, and this will fulfill the demands of dadāti.

 

In the next verse, Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī informs us what kind of Vaiṣṇava should be selected as a friend and how Vaiṣṇavas should be served.

 

<<>>

 

Buy Online The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International, Inc.

His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, Founder Ācārya of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness

[theist]

My opinion is that agruing about Krsna consciousness is a way of avoiding Krsna while keeping a cover of self deception for the mind that knows Krsna must be the only object of devotee conversation. Even if our particular point may be the correct one by going back and forth endlessly and with the same "opponents" we must admit that is craziness and real Krsna katha.

 

Why are we so attached to the perverted reflection and adverse to the Substance?

 

BTW I know this is my problem as much or more than anyone else here. But isn't it time we started helping our each other in an endeavor to develop a higher taste. I know I need some help.

[AncientMariner]

 

My opinion is that agruing about Krsna consciousness is a way of avoiding Krsna while keeping a cover of self deception for the mind that knows Krsna must be the only object of devotee conversation. Even if our particular point may be the correct one by going back and forth endlessly and with the same "opponents" we must admit that is craziness and real Krsna katha.

 

Why are we so attached to the perverted reflection and adverse to the Substance?

 

BTW I know this is my problem as much or more than anyone else here. But isn't it time we started helping our each other in an endeavor to develop a higher taste. I know I need some help.

 

For me some of the best substance to be found in Srimad Bhagavatam is in canto 5. Just love that Canto.

 

After accepting the feature of avadhūta, a great saintly person without material cares, Lord Ṛṣabhadeva passed through human society like a blind, deaf and dumb man, an idle stone, a ghost or a madman. Although people called Him such names, He remained silent and did not speak to anyone.

 

PURPORT

The word avadhūta refers to one who does not care for social conventions, particularly the varṇāśrama-dharma. However, such a person may be situated fully within himself and be satisfied with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, on whom he meditates. In other words, one who has surpassed the rules and regulations of varṇāśrama-dharma is called avadhūta. Such a person has already surpassed the clutches of māyā, and he lives completely separate and independent.

SB5.5.30

 

 

 

Lord Ṛṣabhadeva was the head of all kings and emperors within this universe, but assuming the dress and language of an avadhūta, He acted as if dull and materially bound. Consequently no one could observe His divine opulence. He adopted this behavior just to teach yogīs how to give up the body. Nonetheless, He maintained His original position as a plenary expansion of Lord Vāsudeva, Kṛṣṇa. Remaining always in that state, He gave up His pastimes as Lord Ṛṣabhadeva within the material world. If, following in the footsteps of Lord Ṛṣabhadeva, one can give up his subtle body, there is no chance that one will accept a material body again.

 

PURPORT

As Lord Kṛṣṇa says in Bhagavad-gītā (4.9):

janma karma ca me divyam

evaṁ yo vetti tattvataḥ

tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma

naiti mām eti so ’rjuna

“One who knows the transcendental nature of My appearance and activities does not, upon leaving the body, take his birth again in this material world, but attains My eternal abode, O Arjuna.”

This is possible simply by keeping oneself an eternal servant of the Supreme Lord. One must understand his constitutional position and the constitutional position of the Supreme Lord as well. Both have the same spiritual identity. Maintaining oneself as a servant of the Supreme Lord, one should avoid rebirth in this material world. If one keeps himself spiritually fit and thinks of himself as an eternal servant of the Supreme Lord, he will be successful at the time he has to give up the material body.

SB5.6.7

 

 

 

 

Actually Lord Ṛṣabhadeva had no material body, but due to yogamāyā, He considered His body material, and therefore, because He played like an ordinary human being, He gave up the mentality of identifying with it. Following this principle, He began to wander all over the world. While traveling, He came to the province of Karṇāṭa in South India and passed through Koṅka, Veṅka and Kuṭaka. He had no plan to travel this way, but He arrived near Kuṭakācala and entered a forest there. He placed stones within His mouth and began to wander through the forest, naked and with His hair disheveled like a madman.

SB5.6.8

 

 

 

Sukadeva Gosvāmī continued: Lord Ṛṣabhadeva is the master of all Vedic knowledge, human beings, demigods, cows and brāhmaṇas. I have already explained His pure, transcendental activities, which will vanquish the sinful activities of all living entities. This narration of Lord Ṛṣabhadeva’s pastimes is the reservoir of all auspicious things. Whoever attentively hears or speaks of them, following in the footsteps of the ācāryas, will certainly attain unalloyed devotional service at the lotus feet of Lord Vāsudeva, the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

 

PURPORT

The teachings of Lord Ṛṣabhadeva are for the people of all yugas—Satya-yuga, Tretā-yuga, Dvāpara-yuga and especially Kali-yuga. These instructions are so powerful that even in this age of Kali, one can attain perfection simply by explaining the instructions, following in the footsteps of the ācāryas or listening to the instructions with great attention. If one does so, one can attain the platform of pure devotional service to Lord Vāsudeva. The pastimes of the Supreme Personality of Godhead and His devotees are recorded in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam so that those who recite these pastimes and listen to them will become purified. Nityaṁ bhāgavata-sevayā [SB 1.2.18]. As a matter of principle, devotees should read, speak and hear Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam persistently, twenty-four hours daily if possible. That is the recommendation of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ [Cc. adi 17.31]. One should either chant the Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra or read Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and thereby try to understand the characteristics and instructions of the Supreme Lord, who appeared as Lord Ṛṣabhadeva, Lord Kapila and Lord Kṛṣṇa. In this way one can become fully aware of the transcendental nature of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. As stated in Bhagavad-gītā, one who knows the transcendental nature of the Lord’s birth and activities attains liberation from material bondage and returns to Godhead.

SB5.6.17

[shambu]

 

Everyone was chanting except for you. You just don't have the ears to hear or the eyes to see who is pure devotee.

 

Only a pure devotee can see who is another pure devotee. So you are saying that all those who say NM is a pure devotee are qualified to see who is a pure devotee?

[Guest guest]

 

Only a pure devotee can see who is another pure devotee. So you are saying that all those who say NM is a pure devotee are qualified to see who is a pure devotee?

Those who follow Narayana Maharaja have been given the eyes to see him as a pure devotee and their diksa or siksa guru. Its Krsna who gives us the divine eyes. Sometimes a person is meant to be under the anugatya, shelter of another pure devotee guru (other than Narayana M.), and that will be revealed to them. But it doesn't mean that person will offend any pure devotee.

[Guest guest]

So all the hippies who recognoized Srila Prabhupada as a pure devotee were all pure devotees?

 

 

Only a pure devotee can see who is another pure devotee. So you are saying that all those who say NM is a pure devotee are qualified to see who is a pure devotee?