Quotes of Narayana Maharaja on Prabhupada's books?

[Guest guest]

I think it can be safely said that Audarya felowship is an anti BVNM site.

 

The diatribes from in this thread are very shocking and most unvaisnava like.

 

I noticed that when another guest mentioned a few of the shocking quotes which Srila Prabhupada made against women (which are to be found in Srila Prabhupada's books) the posting was quickly removed.

[Guest guest]

To put a cat amongst the pigeons, and my theory to the test....

 

Did Srila Prabupada make mistakes?

 

I challege the admins to allow this question to stand.

[Beggar]

So what if the referees of this site are a liittle unfair. Audarya Fellowship has become a war zone where we slug in out. Get down in the pits and represent your guru, your cause. You gotsta REPRESENT! You're in the Audarya Fellowship, Spiritual Discussions, so stop whining. Audarya Fellowship, Spiritual Discussions, where when the going gets tough the tough get going. War is hell!

[theist]

 

I think it can be safely said that Audarya felowship is an anti BVNM site.

 

The diatribes from in this thread are very shocking and most unvaisnava like.

 

I noticed that when another guest mentioned a few of the shocking quotes which Srila Prabhupada made against women (which are to be found in Srila Prabhupada's books) the posting was quickly removed.

 

Is there a forum run by Narayana Maharaja's disciples that allow participation from those outside their own sanga? If so do they allow criticsm of NM? What is the URL of that forum?

[theist]

 

To put a cat amongst the pigeons, and my theory to the test....

 

Did Srila Prabupada make mistakes?

 

I challege the admins to allow this question to stand.

 

I would say, Of course he made mistakes along the way. But because he was such an empowered lover of Krsna his mistakes are insignificant like the spots on the moon are insignificant on a full moon night. One of his mistakes according to him was that he accepted too many disciples. That

 

Differences in acarya's views should be open to discussion but the nature of that discussion should be mature and civil and not designed to stir up anger and hurt the feelings of others.

 

This Guruvani I believe starts such threads as this to stir up anger and hurt the feelings of others. Even though I agree with him on many basic points his desire to offend great souls outweighs any good he may over. I no longer will read anything he says. That is my personal boycott. Same reason I avoid all these Iskcon reactionary ritviks. They are more interested in slamming others into the dirt than they are of hearing Prabhupada vani.

 

The Moderators here can tolerate all the vile disgusting aparadhas he levels towards Lord Jesus Christ for some reason. 'Silence means agreement' they say. I would have deleted his posts and banned him..again... from this site.

[theist]

 

So what if the referees of this site are a liittle unfair. Audarya Fellowship has become a war zone where we slug in out. Get down in the pits and represent your guru, your cause. You gotsta REPRESENT! You're in the Audarya Fellowship, Spiritual Discussions, so stop whining. Audarya Fellowship, Spiritual Discussions, where when the going gets tough the tough get going. War is hell!

As one who has participated too much in making Audarya Fellowship Spiritual Discussions a place of contention over the years I can only apologize to all from JNdas to the readers who never post. I can't erase those mistakes now but I can reform and am trying to do so.

 

Spiritual discussions are meant for enhancing enlightenment and this passing and receiving should be civil and engaged in with a cool mind. This can also involve debate. But real debate is far different than schoolchildren

squabbling over whose father (Guru) is bigger.

 

 

The thoughts of My pure devotees dwell in Me, their lives are fully devoted to My service, and they derive great satisfaction and bliss from always enlightening one another and conversing about Me. -Gita 10.9

 

Yes beggar 'war is hell' just as 'peace is heaven'. We have a choice.

[Beggar]

 

Is there a forum run by Narayana Maharaja's disciples that allow participation from those outside their own sanga? If so do they allow criticsm of NM? What is the URL of that forum?

Theist, what you write here makes good sense. But some posters attack gurus other than their own with a vendetta. In your own words there are some, "dvivida gorilla types disrupting, blaspheming and pissing on the sacrifical fire". By the way where is Dvidvida today? Is he sleeping in? Maybe his Mommy wont let him come out and play?

[theist]

 

Theist, what you write here makes good sense. But some posters attack gurus other than their own with a vendetta. In your own words there are some, "dvivida gorilla types disrupting, blaspheming and pissing on the sacrifical fire". By the way where is Dvidvida today? Is he sleeping in? Maybe his Mommy wont let him come out and play?

LOL. I agree and addressed this a post or two back. We must somehow not get sucked in though. Heed the sign, DO NOT FEED THE MONKIES! They just keep coming back for more.

[Guest guest]

 

Theist, what you write here makes good sense. But some posters attack gurus other than their own with a vendetta. In your own words there are some, "dvivida gorilla types disrupting, blaspheming and pissing on the sacrifical fire". By the way where is Dvidvida today? Is he sleeping in? Maybe his Mommy wont let him come out and play?

Beggar is being insincere here. He's just trying to rattle Dvidvida's cage and work him up, or pull on his chain as they say.

[theist]

 

Beggar is being insincere here. He's just trying to rattle Dvidvida's cage and work him up, or pull on his chain as they say.

 

Oh no! You may be right. Let's see if he keeps feeding him.

[Guest guest]

While waiting for Dvidvida Gorilla to come and pass urine, perhaps you could read the lecture by BVNM entitled, "If Someone Passes Urine On you" So that you can understand more properly the siddhanta of urine passing and the highly exalted vimpralambha mood from it. Then you can argue about whether it is higher to have milana or the actual meeting of urine splashing on you to experience the joys of it, or is better the vimpralambha from urine passing.

[theist]

 

While waiting for Dvidvida Gorilla to come and pass urine, perhaps you could read the lecture by BVNM entitled, "If Someone Passes Urine On you" So that you can understand more properly the siddhanta of urine passing and the highly exalted vimpralambha mood from it. Then you can argue about whether it is higher to have milana or the actual meeting of urine splashing on you to experience the joys of it, or is better the vimpralambha from urine passing.

 

What a strange post. My mind is made up...no golden showers for me! But if it causes you joy then by all means go for it.

[Guest guest]

IF SOMEONE URINATES ON YOU

BVNM lecture 17 June 2005

 

and

 

THE MEANING OF DIKSA

BVNM lecture 15 January 2001

 

"Even if someone kicks you and passes urine on you [waves his hand] no harm..."

[Guruvani]

If Narayana Maharaja and his gang thinks they can insult, assault and denigrate a large section of followers of Srila Prabhupada who sincerely believe in the ritvik system, well then they shouldn't be surprised if Prabhupada's monkey army starts throwing some rocks back at them from the trees of the jungle.

 

If Narayana Maharaja would have just kept his mouth shut about the ritvik system, as Srila Sridhar Maharaja did, then he certainly would have had a few thousand less enemies in the world.

 

In many ways Narayana Maharaja has been a pawn and a puppet of certain irate ISKCON renegades.

We can't put all the blame on him, because many haters of the GBC have been using him for years as a club to pound on the GBC with.

 

If Narayan Maharaja would have kept his nose out of the ritvik business, I never would have had any problem with him.

 

I know that he doesn't believe that pancaratrika diksha in the KC movement is just a formality. He thinks it's all important.

 

Srila Prabhupada told many times that intiation was just a formality and that is why he established a ritvik system to perform this ceremonial ritual in ISKCON.

 

Narayana Maharaja entered the battlefield willingly and enthusiastically with his attacks on the ritviks, so why in the hell are his goons whining that the enemy is fighting back?

[Guest guest]

A class from the Kartika lecture-course on

Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura 's Madhurya Kadambini

Vrndavana: October 21, 2005

Tridandisvami Sri Srimad Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja

 

"Even if someone kicks you and passes urine on you [waves his hand] no harm..."

 

We will have to consider whether or not we have acquired the four symptoms of:

 

trnad api sunicena

taror api sahisnuna

amanina manadena

kirtaniyah sada harih

 

[“One can chant the holy name of the Lord in a humble state of mind, thinking himself lower than the straw in the street. One should be more tolerant than the tree, devoid of all sense of false prestige and ready to offer all respects to others. ln such a state of mind one can chant the holy name of the Lord constantly.” (Siksastaka 3)]

 

Are you giving respect to all others? Are you demanding respect for yourself? You will have to look at all these things. You may have read many, many books and may have memorized so many verses, but if lust and anger do not go from your heart, how can suddha bhakti (pure bhakti) come? How can we enter into the verses? And how can we understand the scriptures?

We have to follow Srila Rupa Gosvami and Srila Raghunatha dasa Gosvami. Srila Raghunatha dasa Gosvami has stated in Manah-siksa:

 

pratisthasa dhrsta svapaca-ramani me hrdi natet

katham sadhuh-prema sprsati sucir etan nanu manah

sada tvam sevasva prabhu-dayita-samantam atulam

yatha tam niskasya tvaritam iha tam vesayati sah

 

[“O mind! How can pure divine love appear in my heart as long as the shameless dog-eating outcaste woman of the desire for prestige is audaciously dancing there? Therefore, always remember and serve the immeasurably powerful commanders of the army of Krsna, the beloved devotees of the Lord. They will at once banish this outcaste woman and initiate the flow of immaculate vraja-prema in your heart.” (Manah-siksa, verse 7)]

 

That pratistha, desire for name and fame, is like a dog-eating prostitute dancing in the heart, and mukti-vyaghra, the desire for impersonal liberation, is like a tigress.

 

So consider how much bhakti you actually have. When women see men, does lust come? When men see women, do they feel lust? You must consider, “When my name and fame is checked by someone, do I become angry with that person? Do I have pride?” You must look at yourself and think about this. If you have these faults, how can bhakti come? Yours is then only a shadow of bhakti. Hearing about all these considerations, you must examine your heart and think, “Oh, I don't have bhakti.”

 

If we consider all these things, we become hopeless – this is our nature. So think about this. You have been hearing so much hari-katha and have lived for so many years with your Guru. Why do you still have so many material desires? How is it possible that the desire to marry is still in your heart? You should already know scripture and you must have attained some renunciation.

 

vasudeve bhagavati

bhakti-yogah prayojitah

janayaty asu vairagyam

jnanam ca yad ahaitukam

 

[“By rendering devotional service unto the Personality of Godhead, Sri Krsna, one immediately acquires causeless knowledge and detachment from the world.” (Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.2.7)]

 

When pure (suddha) bhakti enters the heart, one automatically attains jnana – knowledge of krsna-tattva, and vairagya – detachment from material enjoyment. When we are still beset by lust, anger and pride, we must ask ourselves, “Where am I? What is my position? Oh, I feel hopeless.”

 

Twenty to twenty-five years have already passed, and still this anger and lust and desire for fame have not left you? These things must be dispelled.

 

When we consider our position we become a little hopeless. In this regard, Srila Rupa Gosvami has written in Stava Mala:

 

pracinanam bhajanam atulam duskaram srnvato me

nairyasena jvalati hrdayam bhakti-lesalasasya

visva-dricim aghahara tavakarnya karunya-vicim

asa-binduksitam idam upety antare hanta saityam

 

[“I am very weak and lazy to do even the smallest devotional service. Therefore, when I hear of the peerless and difficult-to-perform services performed by the great devotees in ancient times, my heart burns with despair. On the other hand, O Lord, O killer of Aghasura, when I hear that Your waves of mercy splash everyone, from the demigod Brahma down to the most insignificant creature, and even to the demon Aghasura who was the embodiment of sin, then my heart becomes sprinkled with a cooling drop of hope.”]

 

The meaning of this prayer is as follows: “Alas! Seeing the sadhana of the previous great practitioners of bhakti, I have become hopeless.” We have only one hope. What is that? The mercy of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is flowing everywhere, and even one drop can drown us. Srila Gaura Kisora dasa Babaji Maharaja and Srila Raghunatha dasa Gosvami performed astonishing austerity. The detachment of Gaura Kisora dasa Babaji was very severe. Before him there were many devotees performing austerities for thousands upon thousands of years – and look at us in comparison…

 

Therefore, stay with the Vaisnavas; never leave them. In their association you will be disciplined and protected. Study our books. Listen carefully and take these words in your heart. Following the Vaisnavas you should lament, “Oh, my pride and lust have not left me. Fie on me, fie on me!” You should think like this. Look at yourself and lament for your condition. Only in this way can you give up all these bad qualities. Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura wrote all this, and now I'm just repeating a shadow of what he wrote.

[Guruvani]

But when it comes to the ritviks, Narayana Maharaja has no humbleness.

He tells about about being humble and offenseless, except towards the ritviks.

His message is to be humble except towards the ritviks,

With the ritviks we can be all mouthy and nasty and rude?

 

Why does his lessons on humbleness disappear when the issue or ritvik comes up?

 

Mention ritvik and then Narayana Maharaja goes on a rampage of terror.

[Guest guest]

But what have you ritviks done to even deserve respect?

 

Going to festivals that devotees work hard to organize and spoiling it with some crazy propaganda isn't going to result in any respect. And you claim to be a follower of Srila Prabhupada! trnad api sunicena ...

 

 

But when it comes to the ritviks, Narayana Maharaja has no humbleness.

He tells about about being humble and offenseless, except towards the ritviks.

His message is to be humble except towards the ritviks,

With the ritviks we can be all mouthy and nasty and rude?

 

Why does his lessons on humbleness disappear when the issue or ritvik comes up?

 

Mention ritvik and then Narayana Maharaja goes on a rampage of terror.

[Guruvani]

 

But what have you ritviks done to even deserve respect?

 

Going to festivals that devotees work hard to organize and spoiling it with some crazy propaganda isn't going to result in any respect. And you claim to be a follower of Srila Prabhupada! trnad api sunicena ...

 

I don't ask for respect for me.

Respect for Srila Prabhupada's ritvik system is the issue, not respect for me.

 

He can badmouth me till the cows come home and I could care less.

 

It's his nasty badmouthing of the ritvik system that is his problem.

 

What a couple of "ritviks" do at some Hare Krishna festival is not the fault of the thousands of other ritvik devotees.

 

If you want to hold all the ritvik devotees accountable for what a couple of them do in Detroit, then you are just a sorry sack of stool anyway.

[Guest guest]

A response to the Rtvik System

A Lecture Given in Polansk, Russia: July 19, 2001

Sri Srimad Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja

Without accepting diksa from a bona fide guru, can one develop bhakti or not?

Some think that chanting, remembering, reading books, and performing arcana,

sravanam and kirtanam is sufficient and there is no need for a mediator. They

think that accepting a 'rtvik' person is sufficient for attaining pure bhakti,

and there is no need of accepting diksa from any living self-realized guru.

 

Those who think, "There is no need to accept a guru as a mediator because we

can chant the holy name, we can read books, and we can do arcana and sadhana

simply by the rtvik system," are not within the guru-parampara. They deceive

others. They are actually cheaters; not bhaktas. Nowhere in the sastra is it

written that a rtvik can ever give bhakti. [There are nineteen places in

Prabhupada's books where the word 'rtvik' is used, and in all cases the word

only refers to a priest officiating or performing a fire sacrifice. Even when

the word used is 'rtvik acarya,' it is still defined as a priest performing a

fire sacrifice for a secular gain.] This can never be the case. Those who

advocate the rtvik system are misleaders, and their followers are misled. Do

not go towards the rtvik system.

[Guruvani]

 

A response to the Rtvik System

A Lecture Given in Polansk, Russia: July 19, 2001

Sri Srimad Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja

Without accepting diksa from a bona fide guru, can one develop bhakti or not?

Some think that chanting, remembering, reading books, and performing arcana,

sravanam and kirtanam is sufficient and there is no need for a mediator. They

think that accepting a 'rtvik' person is sufficient for attaining pure bhakti,

and there is no need of accepting diksa from any living self-realized guru.

 

Those who think, "There is no need to accept a guru as a mediator because we

can chant the holy name, we can read books, and we can do arcana and sadhana

simply by the rtvik system," are not within the guru-parampara. They deceive

others. They are actually cheaters; not bhaktas. Nowhere in the sastra is it

written that a rtvik can ever give bhakti. [There are nineteen places in

Prabhupada's books where the word 'rtvik' is used, and in all cases the word

only refers to a priest officiating or performing a fire sacrifice. Even when

the word used is 'rtvik acarya,' it is still defined as a priest performing a

fire sacrifice for a secular gain.] This can never be the case. Those who

advocate the rtvik system are misleaders, and their followers are misled. Do

not go towards the rtvik system.

But we see even Srila Prabhupada said that Jesus was a Vaishnava, but Narayana Maharaja says that devotees who worship Krishna, Srila Prabhupada and all the predecessor acharyas are not Vaishnavas or bhaktas because they don't worship a "living guru" like him.

 

Well, it's obvious that he is a bigot and a scoundrel who contradicts so many statements by Mahaprabhu and the shastra that the chanters of the Holy Name are the highest bhaktas of all.

 

Vapuvada rears it's ugly heard again in the hateful words of Narayana Maharaja.

[Beggar]

While Sukadeva Gosvami continued to speak on the transcendental pastimes and characteristics of Lord Krsna, King Pariksit, upon hearing him, became more and more enthusiastic and wanted to hear further. Sukadeva Gosvami next narrated the story of Dvivida, the gorilla who was killed by Lord Balarama. This gorilla was a great friend of Bhaumasura's, or Narakasura's, who was killed by Krsna in connection with his kidnapping sixteen thousand princesses from all over the world. Dvivida was the minister of King Sugriva. His brother, Mainda, was also a very powerful gorilla king. When Dvivida gorilla heard the story of his friend Bhaumasura's being killed by Lord Krsna, he planned to create mischief throughout the country in order to avenge the death of Bhaumasura. His first business was to set fires in villages, towns, and industrial and mining places, as well as in the residential quarters of the mercantile men who were busy dairy farming and protecting cows. Sometimes he would uproot a big mountain and tear it to pieces. In this way he created great disturbances all over the country, especially in the province of Kathwar. The city of Dvaraka was situated in this Kathwar province, and because Lord Krsna used to live in this city, Dvivida specifically made it his target of disturbance.

Dvivida was as powerful as 10,000 elephants. Sometimes he would go to the seashore, and with his powerful hands he would create so much disturbance in the sea that he would overflood the neighboring cities and villages. Often he would go to the hermitages of great saintly persons and sages and cause a great disturbance by smashing their beautiful gardens and orchards. Not only did he create disturbances in that way, but sometimes he would pass urine and stool on their sacred sacrificial arena. He would thus pollute the whole atmosphere. He also kidnapped both men and women, taking them away from their residential places to the caves of the mountains. Putting them within the caves, he would close the entrances with large chunks of stone, like the bhrngi insect, which arrests and carries away many flies and other insects and puts them within the holes of the trees where he lives. He thus regularly defied the law and order of the country. Not only that, but he would sometimes pollute the female members of many aristocratic families by forcibly raping them.

While creating such great disturbance all over the country, sometimes he heard very sweet musical sounds from the Raivataka Mountain, and so he entered that mountainous region. There he saw that Lord Balarama was present in the midst of many beautiful young girls, enjoying their company while engaged in singing and dancing. He became captivated by the beautiful features of Lord Balarama's body, each and every part of which was very beautiful, decorated as He was with a garland of lotus flowers. Similarly, all the young girls present, dressed and garlanded with flowers, exhibited much beauty. Lord Balarama seemed to be fully intoxicated from drinking the varuni beverage, and His eyes appeared to be rolling in a drunken state. Lord Balarama appeared just like the king of the elephants in the midst of many she-elephants.

This gorilla by the name of Dvivida could climb up on the trees and jump from one branch to another. Sometimes he would jerk the branches, creating a particular type of sound, "Kila, kila," so that Lord Balarama was greatly distracted from the pleasing atmosphere. Sometimes Dvivida would come before the women and exhibit different types of caricatures. By nature young women are apt to enjoy everything with laughter and joking, and when the gorilla came before them they did not take him seriously, but simply laughed at him. However, the gorilla was so rude that even in the presence of Balarama he began to show the lower part of his body to the women, and sometimes he would come forward to show his teeth while moving his eyebrows. He disrespected the women, even in the presence of Balarama. Lord Balarama's name suggests that He is not only very powerful, but that He takes pleasure in exhibiting extraordinary strength. So He took a stone and threw it at Dvivida. The gorilla, however, artfully avoided being struck by the stone. In order to insult Balarama, the gorilla took away the earthen pot in which the varuni was kept. Dvivida, being thus intoxicated, with his limited strength began to tear off all the valuable clothes worn by Balarama and the accompanying young girls. He was so puffed up that he thought that Balarama could not do anything to chastise him, and he continued to offend Balaramaji and His companions.

When Lord Balarama personally saw the disturbances created by the gorilla and heard that he had already performed many mischievous activities all over the country, He became very angry and decided to kill him. Immediately He took His club in His hands. The gorilla could understand that now Balarama was going to attack him. In order to counteract Balarama, he immediately uprooted a big oak tree, and with great force he came and struck at Lord Balarama's head. Lord Balarama, however, immediately caught hold of the big tree and remained undisturbed, just like a great mountain. To retaliate, He took His club by the name of Sunanda and began to hit the gorilla with it. The gorilla's head was severely injured. Currents of blood flowed from his head with great force, but the stream of blood enhanced his beauty like a stream of liquid manganese coming out of a great mountain. The striking of Balarama's club did not even slightly disturb him. On the contrary, he immediately uprooted another big oak tree, and after clipping off all its leaves, he began to strike Balarama's head with it. But Balarama, with the help of His club, tore the tree to pieces. Since the gorilla was very angry, he took another tree in his hands and began to strike Lord Balarama's body. Again Lord Balarama tore the tree to pieces, and the fighting continued. Each time the gorilla would bring out a big tree to strike Balarama, Lord Balarama would tear the tree to pieces by the striking of His club. The gorilla Dvivida would clutch another tree from another direction and again attack Balarama in the same way. As a result of this continuous fighting, the forest became treeless. When no more trees were available, Dvivida took help from the hills and threw large pieces of stone, like rainfall, upon the body of Balarama. Lord Balarama, also in a great sporting mood, began to smash those big pieces of stone into mere pebbles. The gorilla, being bereft of all trees and stone slabs, now stood before Him and waved his strong fists. Then, with great force, he began to beat the chest of Lord Balarama with his fists. This time Lord Balarama became most angry. Since the gorilla was striking Him with his hands, He would not strike him back with His own weapons, the club or the plow. Simply with His fists He began to strike the collarbone of the gorilla. This striking proved to be fatal to Dvivida, who immediately vomited blood and fell unconscious upon the ground. When the gorilla fell, it appeared that all the hills and forests tottered.

After this horrible incident, all the Siddhas, great sages and saintly persons from the upper planetary system began to shower flowers on the person of Lord Balarama, and sounds glorifying the supremacy of Lord Balarama were vibrated. All of them began to chant, "All glories to Lord Balarama! Let us offer our respectful obeisances unto Your lotus feet. By Your killing this great demon, Dvivida, You have initiated an auspicious era for the world." All such jubilant sounds of victory were heard from outer space. After killing the great demon Dvivida and being worshiped by showers of flowers and glorious sounds of victory, Balarama returned to His capital city, Dvaraka.

Thus ends the Bhaktivedanta purport of the Sixty-seventh Chapter of Krsna, "Deliverance of Dvivida Gorilla."

[Guest guest]

 

I don't ask for respect for me.

If you want to hold all the ritvik devotees accountable for what a couple of them do in Detroit, then you are just a sorry sack of stool anyway.

 

Uh... anyone who is idiotic enough to believe that you can make advancement without a living Guru is a sorry stack of stool.

 

None of our Purva Acaryas in the Gaudiya Sampradaya have ever been without the instruction of at least one living Guru. I feel sorry for you, that you will never accept a living Guru.

 

I think anyone who has ever saw or met Prabhupad can tell you for sure it's not the same experience as listening or watching one of his tape recordings... honestly.

[Guest guest]

Guruvani you are just ridiculous. I think with all your meditation on Srila Narayana Maharaja, perhaps you can be born into a nice family of real vaisnavas and attain the mercy of his lotus feet in some lifetime from now. How many KEY and SENIOR prabhupada disciples are with him now? Who the hell are you to say anything towards them. If they all accept him, why can't you?

 

Get real or get on. Sheesh