Who is Hiranyagarbha

[Guest guest]

Dear Advaitins,

 

Namaste,

 

I am quite unfamilier with certain names and definitions used in

Advaita Vedanata. Hope to get some light from the group as it is the

focussed topic for this new year.

 

My question is Who is Hiranyagarbha? He is said to be the

consciousness associated with the subtle body. Is it a synonim for

chaturmukha brahma? When krama mukti is referred does the jiva go to

his abode for final emancipation? Is it a post which can be occupied

by any jiva by doing required amount of Meritorious deed?

 

Is there any disction amoung brahma referred in the puranas and the

hiranyagarbha referred in Advaita Vedanta?

 

Yours in Sri Ramakrishna,

 

Br. Vinayaka

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "Vinayaka" <vinayaka_ns wrote:

>

>

> Dear Advaitins,

>

> Namaste,

>

> I am quite unfamilier with certain names and definitions used in

> Advaita Vedanata. Hope to get some light from the group as it is

the

> focussed topic for this new year.

>

> My question is Who is Hiranyagarbha? He is said to be the

> consciousness associated with the subtle body. Is it a synonim for

> chaturmukha brahma? When krama mukti is referred does the jiva go

to

> his abode for final emancipation? Is it a post which can be

occupied

> by any jiva by doing required amount of Meritorious deed?

>

> Is there any disction amoung brahma referred in the puranas and

the

> hiranyagarbha referred in Advaita Vedanta?

>

> Yours in Sri Ramakrishna,

>

> Br. Vinayaka

>

 

 

ShrIgurubhyo namaH

 

Namaste,

 

What you have understood about this concept is correct.

 

Hiranyagarbha is the First-Born. He is the 'father' of all beings

born after his appearance. Hiranyagarbha (H) is the Consciousness

associated with the 'total' subtle body (mind, praaNa, senses).

While each of us, in association with our individual (vyaShTi)

subtle body, are known as 'taijasa' (Mandukya Up.), H is the one

who has 'abhimaana', identification, with the total (samaShTi)

subtle body. Just like we have ViraaT (total) and Vishwa

(individual) at the gross level and Ishwara (total) and prAjna

(individual) at the causal level, H and taijasa are at the subtle

level.

 

The Rg.Veda Samhita gives the definition of H in the mantra:

10.121.1 as H was the one who existed in the beginning, he is the

pati (head) of all the born beings.

 

He is called so because he is in the Golden Egg. In him rests the

subtle universe, just before manifestation as the gross universe. It

is something like an object, before coming into a gross form,

remains in the 'head' of the maker as an 'idea'. It corresponds to

the dream state where things are not very clear, somewhat hazy, yet

powerful. That is why the Mandukya Upanishad says that the jiva who

does upasana on the Hiranyagarbha attains great powers.

 

The ViShNu sahasra naama gives this name in two or three places.

 

In the Puranic presentation, Brahmaa (H) came out of Lord VishNu's

navel, seated on the Lotus. It is to this BrahmA that the Lord

caused all the Vedic knowledge to be known.

 

Warm regards,

subbu

Om Tat Sat

[Guest guest]

subrahmanian_v <subrahmanian_v > wrote: ---Dear Sri Subramanium,

Please correct me if I am on the wrong. I remember having read that all beings from Hiranyagarbha down to a clump of grass are subject to the transmigratory process? Then, how can we accept the concept of kramamukti which presupposes some arrival in time as against the timeless realization of the actionless Self, vis-a-vis the above statement from the commentary of Sankara?

 

with regards

Sankarraman

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

advaitin, Ganesan Sankarraman <shnkaran

wrote:

>

>

>

> subrahmanian_v <subrahmanian_v

wrote: ---Dear Sri Subramanium,

> Please correct me if I am

on the wrong. I remember having read that all beings from

Hiranyagarbha down to a clump of grass are subject to the

transmigratory process? Then, how can we accept the concept of

kramamukti which presupposes some arrival in time as against the

timeless realization of the actionless Self, vis-a-vis the above

statement from the commentary of Sankara?

>

> with regards

> Sankarraman

 

Dear Sir,

 

In my understanding of your question, a reply could be as follows:

 

By krama mukti what is meant is that an aspirant who has meditated

upon the Saguna Brahman intensively but has not realized the

liberating Nirguna Brahman before death, is led to the Brahma loka.

He is not reverted to the human or other worlds again owing to his

extraordinary merit(due to upasana of Ishwara). In Brahma loka,

taught by Lord Brahma Himself, this aspirant realizes the Supreme

there and becomes liberated. Hence, there is no contradiction in

respect of his realizing the Timeless, actionless Supreme.

The 'krama' is only to differentiate him from the other who strives

and accomplishes mukti here itself, before death. There is no

difference in the content of realization of both; only the process

differs.

 

Hiranyagarbha too exists in the world of duality. He gets liberated

at the time of Pralaya when his loka faces dissolution. He does not

reincarnate in the next Srishti; it is another jiva who is ripe for

being Hiranyagarbha makes his appearance then. So it goes.

 

On another note, we could think of the utility of having a

Hiranyagarbha in our scheme. It is primarily to show that the

jivas, we, are microcosmic in nature now and that the Supreme a-

cosmic or trans-cosmic Brahman is not reachable by us unless we

first relate to a macrocosmic being. The Mandukya scheme is clear

about this. At every state, waking, dream and sleep, the Upanishad

teaches the characteristic of both the micro and the macro jivas and

exhorts us to meditate upon the oneness of the micro with the

macro. This meditation gives the necessary preparation to finally

negate and transcend the macro and realize the Turiya who is beyond

even the macro. When as individuals we have raaga and dvesha, the

Total, the macro, for whom there are no individuals separate from

him, is free from these defects. This meditation frees the micro

from finitude and results in an 'expansion'. With this expansion in

place, he is fit for realizing the Supreme. Thus, we are able to

appreciate that the Hiranyagarbha is not without any practical

utility in the sadhana scheme.

 

Warm regards,

subbu

Om Tat Sat

[Guest guest]

subrahmanian_v <subrahmanian_v > wrote: --

 

Dear Sir,

 

 

 

On another note, we could think of the utility of having a

Hiranyagarbha in our scheme. It is primarily to show that the

jivas, we, are microcosmic in nature now and that the Supreme a-

cosmic or trans-cosmic Brahman is not reachable by us unless we

first relate to a macrocosmic being. The Mandukya scheme is clear

about this. At every state, waking, dream and sleep, the Upanishad

teaches the characteristic of both the micro and the macro jivas and

exhorts us to meditate upon the oneness of the micro with the

macro. This meditation gives the necessary preparation to finally

negate and transcend the macro and realize the Turiya who is beyond

even the macro. When as individuals we have raaga and dvesha, the

Total, the macro, for whom there are no individuals separate from

him, is free from these defects. This meditation frees the micro

from finitude and results in an 'expansion'. With this expansion in

place, he is fit for realizing the Supreme. Thus, we are able to

appreciate that the Hiranyagarbha is not without any practical

utility in the sadhana scheme.

 

Dear Sri Subramanium,

Thank you for your clarification. I have intellectually understood the relevance for the need for the jiva to expand from the individual to the cosmic. This, if I am correct, has been expatiated upon very well in the Taytriya Upanishads, wherein it has been stated that at each kosa the individual has to move from the individual to the cosmic, this alone paving the way for the transition to the next kosa. It is really a very marvelous idea. Hiranyagarbha could be equated with a long deep sleep state except that from there there is not the risk of lapse into duality unlike our nocturnal sojourn. Am I correct? I remember having read somewhere in

'Deivathin Kural' that all the great teachers like Mahaviar and the Buddha should have reached only the Hiranyagarbha state, and got liberation from there. This is surmised by the Acharya in view of the fact of their world views falling short of advaitic realization. Am I correct? Could somebody, especially the learned professor, confirm this? I definitely remember having read this, but am unable to locate the volume.

with regards

Sankarraman

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hiranyagarbha could be equated with a long deep sleep state except

that from there there is not the risk of lapse into duality unlike

our nocturnal sojourn. Am I correct? I remember having read

somewhere in

> 'Deivathin Kural' that all the great teachers like Mahaviar and

the Buddha should have reached only the Hiranyagarbha state, and got

liberation from there. This is surmised by the Acharya in view of

the fact of their world views falling short of advaitic realization.

Am I correct? Could somebody, especially the learned professor,

confirm this? I definitely remember having read this, but am unable

to locate the volume.

> with regards

> Sankarraman

 

Dear Sir,

 

As the definition of the Hiranyagarbha goes it is consciousness

associated with subtle body and he is said to be first created and

as such he should be more dynamic. If we say that its long deep

sleep is it not equating roughly with sushupti(eventhough you have

mentioned the non return as the special characteristic) or to be

more precise with maya in its cosimic form?

 

Once we equate hiranyagarbha with maya he becomes Ishwara which

makes the concept all the more difficult to comprehend.

 

Yours in Sri Ramakrishna,

 

Br. Vinayaka

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "Vinayaka" <vinayaka_ns wrote:

>

>

> Once we equate hiranyagarbha with maya he becomes Ishwara which

> makes the concept all the more difficult to comprehend.

>

> Yours in Sri Ramakrishna,

>

> Br. Vinayaka

>

 

 

Dear Learned Advaitins:

 

 

 

I have been cross referencing ProfVK Ji's translation of Advaita Sadhana

while following this thread with utmost interest.

 

 

 

As per my understanding

 

 

 

1. Hiranya-garbha is the seed form of the collective consciousness of

all beings and also the sum total of the sentient and insentient. Can we

equate it with the state of universe before one Big-Bang?

2. Hiranya-garbha is personified (for lack of better word) as Brahma

Ji

3. There is no duality in Hiranya-garbha

4. The manifestation of the universe in the current form and all the

duality there in is due to Maya. This manifestation is called Mahat

5. Mahat is personified as Iswara.

6. Ordinary people will go through many cycles of birth and death in

this Mahat.

7. Those who follow the Jnana path and realize the Brahman becomes

Brahman

8. Those who follow one of the upadesa paths like Karma, Bhakti etc

to the perfection will go to Brahma Loka in Hiranya-garbha and spend

time there till they attain the Jnana path and becoming Brahman.

9. It appears that Brahma Loka is a sub-set of the "physical"

universe that we live in with same individuality and hence duality minus

all the suffering.

10. If the "Individual" exist in Brahma Loka and hence the

existence of Duality, how can Brahma Loka be a part of Hiranya-garbha?

For one Hiranya-garbha is seed form and two, there is no Duality in

Hiranya-garbha. Brahma Loka appears more like a part of Mahat, the

manifestation due to Maya, albeit in a different Quantum plane.

 

 

 

I know that my understanding is wrong. Please correct me.

 

 

 

I guess Sri Vinayaka Ji is alluding to the same point 10 above in his

previous post.

 

 

 

Warm Regards

 

 

 

Sudesh Pillutla

[Guest guest]

Vinayaka <vinayaka_ns > wrote:

Hiranyagarbha could be equated with a long deep sleep state except

that from there there is not the risk of lapse into duality unlike

our nocturnal sojourn. Am I correct? I remember having read

somewhere in

> '

 

 

Dear Sir,

 

As the definition of the Hiranyagarbha goes it is consciousness

associated with subtle body and he is said to be first created and

as such he should be more dynamic. If we say that its long deep

sleep is it not equating roughly with sushupti(eventhough you have

mentioned the non return as the special characteristic) or to be

more precise with maya in its cosimic form?

 

Once we equate hiranyagarbha with maya he becomes Ishwara which

makes the concept all the more difficult to comprehend.

Dear Vinayka,

 

I understand that Hiranyagarbha is the cosmic counterpart of the thaijasa. I am familiar with this idea. My identification of it with the sleep of Iswara is only for my trying to understand that in a particular way to render the idea that the Hiranyagarbha world assures moksha without advaitic realization more meaningful

 

My point is there can be no individuality in Hiranyagarbha as any state below the realm of sleep presupposes the position of the duality, deep sleep courted by the jiva containing the potentiality of this. As against the daily sleep, the sleep of Iswara does not pose the threat of lapse into duality. Anyway, I try to understand all these ideas only subjectively.

with regards

Sankarraman

 

 

 

D.