Guest guest Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 I came across some material from a prominent speaker on the essence of tantra and yoga. On the one end of the spectrum is the tantric path. It dwells on the principle of acceptance. From my understanding, one has to accept all. One has to live their life and enjoy all what life has to offer. Everything is Devi, so a fight is not required, just accept her in all her manifestations. Its principle is to embrace joy, sorrows, anger etc. It is to celebrate life. I feel that by with constant acceptance, one is in meditation at all times. On the other end of the spectrum is yoga. Yoga dwells on the principle of exclusion. It is a process of excluding all material aspects that get in the way of ones spiritual path. I feel that in this path, tremendous willpower is needed to fight against yourself and everything around you. For example if one wants to merge with Devi, then one has to ignore everything and just only focus on Devi . The speaker went on to say that both paths will lead the individual to his or her goal. Its up to your own preference. Does this explanation capture the essence of yoga and tantra? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 I do not know how this "prominent speaker" defines her/his terms, but in general I do not find this spectrum idea either useful or accurate, never mind an expression of any "essence" of the matter. DB , "Tulasi" <thundergod999 wrote: > > I came across some material from a prominent speaker on the essence > of tantra and yoga. > > On the one end of the spectrum is the tantric path. It dwells on the > principle of acceptance. From my understanding, one has to accept > all. One has to live their life and enjoy all what life has to > offer. Everything is Devi, so a fight is not required, just accept > her in all her manifestations. Its principle is to embrace joy, > sorrows, anger etc. It is to celebrate life. I feel that by with > constant acceptance, one is in meditation at all times. > > On the other end of the spectrum is yoga. Yoga dwells on the > principle of exclusion. It is a process of excluding all material > aspects that get in the way of ones spiritual path. I feel that in > this path, tremendous willpower is needed to fight against > yourself and everything around you. For example if one wants to > merge with Devi, then one has to ignore everything and just only > focus on Devi . > > The speaker went on to say that both paths will lead the individual > to his or her goal. Its up to your own preference. > > Does this explanation capture the essence of yoga and tantra? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 You are exclusively talking about rAja Yoga. You can read Shiva Samhita which is a kulAcahra text and compare it to the teachings of Bhagawata Gita or Patanjali. There are many forms of Yoga and different schools are of different opinions. It is primarily Sannyasi and Raja Yogi who are most likely to hold that view. As per what is said about Tantra, well it depends once again on which school and type you are talking about. There are at least dozens of schools currently alive. Some of those schools promote strict brahmacharya and vegetarianism. Others hold the view that anything goes. Generalizations and Stereotyping only indicate ignorance, not prominence. In my parampara we are taught Khechari, without the use of tongue cutting [the commonly used method in tantric parampara} however we dont consider ourselves Yogis.The two paths are very similar, they just differ in what practices they carry out and concentrate on. Even in Tantra we NEED mudras and must perform pranayama on a daily basis. Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 Namaste. I don't understand the hostility to this post. True, the definitions given are gross simplifications and ignore many of the technicalities in actual Tantra and Yoga practice. But if Yoga or Tantra have any desires to spread into the West (and believe me, these teachings are sorely needed here), it will be up to teachers to simplify matters so the masses can learn about it and digest it. Teach people the generalities first, then the exceptions! Great saints like Sri Ramakrishna frequently used very simple parables to explain complicated theological concepts to the masses. Yes, Tantra is *more* than just acceptance, and Yoga is more than just exclusion, but, in my humble opinion, these allegories are useful steps towards gaining true understanding. Jai Maa. -Santo "Aum Shanti Shanti Shantih." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2007 Report Share Posted January 4, 2007 Yes, generalities help us to learn in the early stages. But they must be accurate and useful generalities. "Tantra" and "Yoga" are broad, massive concepts that require careful definition before they can be usefully employed as something more than "brands" or sound bites. There is such vast overlap and intermixing between the two ideas that positing them as opposite ends of a spectrum is inaccurate by almost any definition. The lesson of the excerpt given seems to be one of those orientalist dichotomies that equates "Yoga" with Vedic practice and "Tantra" with non-Vedic practice -- or perhaps "Yoga" with brahmacharya and "Tantra" with Brahmacharya. I dunno -- do you? Of course not. Why? There's no definition of terms. Where there's so much room for broad (and broadly wrong) interpretation, better to state so clearly when we come across a passage like this, which is basically little more than well-meaning mumbo-jumbo. I am sorry if my response seems hostile; I do not feel hostility. I am simply answering the question posed. Is that quote useful? In my opinion, no, it's not. If someone prefers to think otherwise, that is their prerogative. I am no authority, but I have an opinion. DB , "Santo Sengupta" <s.santo.sengupta wrote: > > Namaste. > > I don't understand the hostility to this post. True, the definitions given > are gross simplifications and ignore many of the technicalities in actual > Tantra and Yoga practice. But if Yoga or Tantra have any desires to spread > into the West (and believe me, these teachings are sorely needed here), it > will be up to teachers to simplify matters so the masses can learn about it > and digest it. Teach people the generalities first, then the exceptions! > > Great saints like Sri Ramakrishna frequently used very simple parables to > explain complicated theological concepts to the masses. Yes, Tantra is > *more* than just acceptance, and Yoga is more than just exclusion, but, in > my humble opinion, these allegories are useful steps towards gaining true > understanding. > > Jai Maa. > -Santo > "Aum Shanti Shanti Shantih." > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2007 Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 Tantrayog.............they fit..........one build towards the other.......... whats the controversy here............ Santo Sengupta <s.santo.sengupta > wrote: Namaste. I don't understand the hostility to this post. True, the definitions given are gross simplifications and ignore many of the technicalities in actual Tantra and Yoga practice. But if Yoga or Tantra have any desires to spread into the West (and believe me, these teachings are sorely needed here), it will be up to teachers to simplify matters so the masses can learn about it and digest it. Teach people the generalities first, then the exceptions! Great saints like Sri Ramakrishna frequently used very simple parables to explain complicated theological concepts to the masses. Yes, Tantra is *more* than just acceptance, and Yoga is more than just exclusion, but, in my humble opinion, these allegories are useful steps towards gaining true understanding. Jai Maa. -Santo "Aum Shanti Shanti Shantih." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2007 Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 in fact I know of a school ofSV where tantra and yoga are combined. I am told that one of the good exponents thereof is going to hold a mahayaga in Cochin on March 8th where almost all known living greats in srividya will participate. Devi Bhakta <devi_bhakta > wrote: Yes, generalities help us to learn in the early stages. But they must be accurate and useful generalities. "Tantra" and "Yoga" are broad, massive concepts that require careful definition before they can be usefully employed as something more than "brands" or sound bites. There is such vast overlap and intermixing between the two ideas that positing them as opposite ends of a spectrum is inaccurate by almost any definition. The lesson of the excerpt given seems to be one of those orientalist dichotomies that equates "Yoga" with Vedic practice and "Tantra" with non-Vedic practice -- or perhaps "Yoga" with brahmacharya and "Tantra" with Brahmacharya. I dunno -- do you? Of course not. Why? There's no definition of terms. Where there's so much room for broad (and broadly wrong) interpretation, better to state so clearly when we come across a passage like this, which is basically little more than well-meaning mumbo-jumbo. I am sorry if my response seems hostile; I do not feel hostility. I am simply answering the question posed. Is that quote useful? In my opinion, no, it's not. If someone prefers to think otherwise, that is their prerogative. I am no authority, but I have an opinion. DB , "Santo Sengupta" <s.santo.sengupta wrote: > > Namaste. > > I don't understand the hostility to this post. True, the definitions given > are gross simplifications and ignore many of the technicalities in actual > Tantra and Yoga practice. But if Yoga or Tantra have any desires to spread > into the West (and believe me, these teachings are sorely needed here), it > will be up to teachers to simplify matters so the masses can learn about it > and digest it. Teach people the generalities first, then the exceptions! > > Great saints like Sri Ramakrishna frequently used very simple parables to > explain complicated theological concepts to the masses. Yes, Tantra is > *more* than just acceptance, and Yoga is more than just exclusion, but, in > my humble opinion, these allegories are useful steps towards gaining true > understanding. > > Jai Maa. > -Santo > "Aum Shanti Shanti Shantih." > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2007 Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 Hi Kochu ... Thanks, and please keep us informed on the mahayagna as plans develop ... BTW, in reading your post i re-read mine and found a confusing typo ... "The lesson of the excerpt given seems to be one of those orientalist dichotomies that equates "Yoga" with Vedic practice and "Tantra" with non-Vedic practice -- or perhaps "Yoga" with brahmacharya and "Tantra" with Brahmacharya. I dunno -- do you? Of course not. Why? There's no definition of terms." What I MEANT to type (I should try proofing once in a while, eh?) is: "... or perhaps "Yoga" with brahmacharya and "Tantra" with vamacharya. ..." Sorry for the confusion -- and for taking so long to catch my error. DB --- sankara menon <kochu1tz > wrote: > in fact I know of a school ofSV where tantra and > yoga are combined. I am told that one of the good > exponents thereof is going to hold a mahayaga in > Cochin on March 8th where almost all known living > greats in srividya will participate. > > Devi Bhakta <devi_bhakta > wrote: > Yes, generalities help us to learn in the early > stages. But they must > be accurate and useful generalities. > > "Tantra" and "Yoga" are broad, massive concepts that > require careful > definition before they can be usefully employed as > something more than > "brands" or sound bites. There is such vast overlap > and intermixing > between the two ideas that positing them as opposite > ends of a > spectrum is inaccurate by almost any definition. > > The lesson of the excerpt given seems to be one of > those orientalist > dichotomies that equates "Yoga" with Vedic practice > and "Tantra" with > non-Vedic practice -- or perhaps "Yoga" with > brahmacharya and "Tantra" > with Brahmacharya. I dunno -- do you? Of course not. > Why? There's no > definition of terms. > > Where there's so much room for broad (and broadly > wrong) > interpretation, better to state so clearly when we > come across a > passage like this, which is basically little more > than well-meaning > mumbo-jumbo. > > I am sorry if my response seems hostile; I do not > feel hostility. I am > simply answering the question posed. Is that quote > useful? In my > opinion, no, it's not. If someone prefers to think > otherwise, that is > their prerogative. I am no authority, but I have an > opinion. > > DB > > , "Santo > Sengupta" > <s.santo.sengupta wrote: > > > > Namaste. > > > > I don't understand the hostility to this post. > True, the > definitions given > > are gross simplifications and ignore many of the > technicalities in > actual > > Tantra and Yoga practice. But if Yoga or Tantra > have any desires to > spread > > into the West (and believe me, these teachings are > sorely needed > here), it > > will be up to teachers to simplify matters so the > masses can learn > about it > > and digest it. Teach people the generalities > first, then the > exceptions! > > > > Great saints like Sri Ramakrishna frequently used > very simple > parables to > > explain complicated theological concepts to the > masses. Yes, Tantra is > > *more* than just acceptance, and Yoga is more than > just exclusion, > but, in > > my humble opinion, these allegories are useful > steps towards gaining > true > > understanding. > > > > Jai Maa. > > -Santo > > "Aum Shanti Shanti Shantih." > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam > protection around > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > ~ aim mAtangyai namaH ~ In the Devi’s Supreme Cosmic Form, The Satyaloka is situated on the topmost of Her head; The Sun and Moon are her eyes; The quarters of the sky are Her ears; The Vedas are Her words; The Universe is Her heart; The Earth is Her loins; The space between earth and sky is Her navel; The constellations are Her Thighs; The Maharaloka is Her neck; The Janarloka is Her face; Indra and the Devas of the Svarloka are her arms; Sound is the organ of Her ears; Fire is within her Face; Day and Night are Her wings; The mountains are Her bones; The rivers are Her veins, And the trees are the hairs of Her body. Childhood, youth, and old age are Her finest modes; The two twilights are Her raiment; And the Moon is the mind of the Mother of the Universe. ~ Devi Bhagavata Purana, VII.33.1-21 * Please visit the Shakti Sadhana Homepage at http://www.shaktisadhana.org * Please join the Shakti Sadhana Group at Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2007 Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 Why should tantra or yoga have desires to spread into the West? To my understanding, me being a simpleton, these are paths to godhead. They don't go any where, they have no desire to spread. Going West is not the end all of life's ambition. I do agree West may be technologically, economically, muscle power wise and especially in violence and mass killings more advanced than the East. So why should yoga and tantra seek to go West? To get recognised? To become more popular? so that we orientals can say yoga and tantra have spread to West?!! and be snug and happy to see yoga and tantra splashed garishly on the front cover of trendy magazines in the drawing rooms of Western socialites and celebrities?? I am dumbfounded and obfuscated at the suggestion that yoga and tantra have desires to spread to the West. May the good Tripurasundari save me. JR Santo Sengupta <s.santo.sengupta > wrote: Namaste. ....But if Yoga or Tantra have any desires to spread into the West (and believe me, these teachings are sorely needed here), it will be up to teachers to simplify matters so the masses can learn about it and digest it. Teach people the generalities first, then the exceptions! Great saints like Sri Ramakrishna frequently used very simple parables to explain complicated theological concepts to the masses. Yes, Tantra is *more* than just acceptance, and Yoga is more than just exclusion, but, in my humble opinion, these allegories are useful steps towards gaining true understanding. Jai Maa. -Santo "Aum Shanti Shanti Shantih." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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