Thankyou and introduction from new member - Dot

[Guest guest]

Hello to everyone in the group, I have recently joined and generally

will be quietly reading these insightful messages in the background.

 

My appreciation goes to those knowledgeable ones taking the time to

provide those of us relatively new to advaita with definitions, and

also other posts providing clear explanations on various aspects of

advaita philosophy and links to other sites of interest.

 

I did particularly gain a much clearer understanding from Shyam's

explanation on avidya where the pot and the clay example were used.

I have read of this example before, but never as clearly explained

as in this post.

 

Also the posts relating to the definition for adhyAsa are wonderful.

 

As a bit of an introduction, over the last 6 years or so I have

earnestly pursued understanding of the self and the truth.

 

I have read many books including of a more traditional type,

Vivekachudamani, Advaita Bodha Deepika, Kaivalya Navaneeta, Bhagavad

Gita, Yoga Sutras of Patanjali, Jnana Yoga and Raga Yoga by Swami

Vivekananda, Hsin Hsin Ming, and Amrut Laya.

 

I have also read the teachings of Dennis Waite, Nisargadatta

Maharaj, Ramana Maharshi, H.W.L. Poonja, Ramesh Balsekar, Swami

Satchidananda, Byron Katie, Eckhart Tolle, David R. Hawkins, Leo

Hartong, Sailor Bob Adamson, Wei Wu Wei, Thich Nhat Hanh, Easwaran

and quite a few more besides these.

 

Perhaps too much reading, not enough meditation and reflection?

 

 

Warm regards,

Dot.

[Guest guest]

Hi Dot,

 

 

 

Welcome to the group!

 

 

 

You may remember the quotation of Ramana Maharshi, which I made in 'Book of

One' regarding reading lots of books: "He asked whether, on looking in the

shaving mirror in the morning and seeing that we needed a shave, we would

then go to look in lots of other mirrors for confirmation. Similarly, if we

read a book explaining that we are not who we thought ourselves to be and

that we should endeavour to find the real I, why then read lots of other

books telling us the same thing? We should simply start to do something

about it now! Just as the mirror cannot shave us, the book cannot enlighten

us."

 

 

 

Nevertheless, I have read probably more than most and continue to do so. The

most frequent comment I seem to make to people is that our problem is

ignorance, which can only be removed by knowledge. If you do not have direct

access to a Sage, then it seems that the next best thing is to read and to

join a group such as this. But don't neglect the reflection and meditation

too much either! Otherwise the wisdom may remain at the level of information

only. (By meditation here, I refer to nididhyAsana - meditating upon the

essence of what has now been intellectually understood until there is total

conviction - rather than dhyAna - meditation, usually in the sense of the

mechanical act using a mantra.)

 

Best wishes,

Dennis

[Guest guest]

(By meditation here, I refer to nididhyAsana - meditating upon the

> essence of what has now been intellectually understood until there

is total

> conviction - rather than dhyAna - meditation, usually in the sense

of the

> mechanical act using a mantra.)

 

 

Dear Sir,

 

In patanjali yoga sutras sage patanjali says that mantra should not

be chanted mechanically without thinking its meaning. Tat Japah

Tadartha Bhavanam.

 

If one does the japa of a mantra say pranava japa, after thorough

study to know what is pranava and about its real meaning with the

goal which he wants to attain like saguna brahman or nirguna brahman

etc. the practice is said to be independently capable of giving

enlightenment to the sadhaka.

 

Dhyanasaraswati-ji had told about ram nam. I know a sage who became

jnani and an advaitin by reapeating ramnam. I have heard his

recorded lecture where he equates ramnam with pranava and he proves

gramatically and quotes the relevant portions of the scriptures

which approve this.

 

Yours in Sri Ramakrishna,

 

Br. Vinayaka.

[Guest guest]

Namaste:

 

Though I agree with the essence of what you have said, I would like

to add the following additional observation. This is just my opinion

and is subject to correction.

 

According to the story of sage Valmiki, he was a hunter and one time

he was asked to repeat the 'rama' manthra which he refused but agree

to repeat the manthra, <mara>. The continuous repetition of mara

became <maramaramaramaramaramaramara> became equivalent to the

repetition of <rama.> The subtle message of the story is that when a

person concentrates and pays his/her total attention to the

manthra, he/she diverts his/her focus inward rather than outward.

Also all understandings of manthras have to come from inward and no

external sources can provide the 'real meaning.'

 

I would emphasize more on the importance of focus and concentration

and even mechanical repetition of manthra with total focus and

concentration will help the seeker to divert his/her attention

inward. The story of Valmiki was to illustrate the importance of

focus and concentration. The stories of Thyagarajar, Meera,

Ramadas, etc., etc. illustrate the same fact. Total dedication will

destroy the 'false ego' and dhyanam with total surrender can help

one to achieve 'Self-realization.'

 

Bhagawan Sri Krishna also hints the same in the famous verse in

chapter 9, verse 22:

 

Ananyaashchintayanto maam ye janaah paryupaasate;

Teshaam nityaabhiyuktaanaam yogakshemam vahaamyaham.

 

To those men who worship Me alone, thinking of no other, of those

ever united, I secure what is not already possessed and preserve

what they already possess.

 

With my warmest regards,

 

Ram Chandran

 

 

advaitin, "Vinayaka" <vinayaka_ns wrote:

>......

> I know a sage who became

> jnani and an advaitin by reapeating ramnam. I have heard his

> recorded lecture where he equates ramnam with pranava and he

proves

> gramatically and quotes the relevant portions of the scriptures

> which approve this.

>

> Yours in Sri Ramakrishna,

>

> Br. Vinayaka.

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Dennis,

Thankyou for the welcome and your helpful suggestions.

warm regards

Dot

 

 

 

 

Dennis Waite <dwaite (AT) advaita (DOT) org.uk>

advaitin

Friday, 5 January, 2007 11:27:39 PM

RE: Thankyou and introduction from new member - Dot

 

Hi Dot,

 

Welcome to the group!

 

You may remember the quotation of Ramana Maharshi, which I made in 'Book of

One' regarding reading lots of books: "He asked whether, on looking in the

shaving mirror in the morning and seeing that we needed a shave, we would

then go to look in lots of other mirrors for confirmation. Similarly, if we

read a book explaining that we are not who we thought ourselves to be and

that we should endeavour to find the real I, why then read lots of other

books telling us the same thing? We should simply start to do something

about it now! Just as the mirror cannot shave us, the book cannot enlighten

us."

 

Nevertheless, I have read probably more than most and continue to do so. The

most frequent comment I seem to make to people is that our problem is

ignorance, which can only be removed by knowledge. If you do not have direct

access to a Sage, then it seems that the next best thing is to read and to

join a group such as this. But don't neglect the reflection and meditation

too much either! Otherwise the wisdom may remain at the level of information

only. (By meditation here, I refer to nididhyAsana - meditating upon the

essence of what has now been intellectually understood until there is total

conviction - rather than dhyAna - meditation, usually in the sense of the

mechanical act using a mantra.)

 

Best wishes,

 

Dennis

[Guest guest]

Pranams and a warm welcome to the group.

I think Dennis-ji has provided you with some wonderful sagely pointers.

For what its worth I can only add a few small additions -

 

In addition to general reading there are three things that can help

one achieve some degree of progress in understanding and assimilating

vedanta

 

a. A Guru - even if one be unfortunate enough to not have one

available "locally", having a one-to-one relationship with a

long-distance Guru is indispensable. This leads to Guru-krupa

 

b. Bhakti - devotion to the Lord to help lighten one's Ego, - leads to

Ishwara krupa

 

c. Purushartha - or self-effort towards cultivating shamaadi

shatsampatti and leading a life of activity with the attitude of

karmayoga, until one attains chittashuddhi.

 

Reading and listening to the Masters is shravanam and is never "too"

much as long as it is not a mere scholarly exercise, (which in fact

can bloat the ego even more), but one that rekindles the contemplative

enquiry.

 

Again, my thoughts only - based on one's temperament and attitudes,

different ancillary forms of sadhana will appeal to different individuals.

 

Hari OM

Shyam

 

 

 

advaitin, "advaitarules" <advaitarules wrote:

>

> Hello to everyone in the group, I have recently joined and generally

> will be quietly reading these insightful messages in the background.

>

> My appreciation goes to those knowledgeable ones taking the time to

> provide those of us relatively new to advaita with definitions, and

> also other posts providing clear explanations on various aspects of

> advaita philosophy and links to other sites of interest.

>

> I did particularly gain a much clearer understanding from Shyam's

> explanation on avidya where the pot and the clay example were used.

> I have read of this example before, but never as clearly explained

> as in this post.

>

> Also the posts relating to the definition for adhyAsa are wonderful.

>

> As a bit of an introduction, over the last 6 years or so I have

> earnestly pursued understanding of the self and the truth.

>

> I have read many books including of a more traditional type,

> Vivekachudamani, Advaita Bodha Deepika, Kaivalya Navaneeta, Bhagavad

> Gita, Yoga Sutras of Patanjali, Jnana Yoga and Raga Yoga by Swami

> Vivekananda, Hsin Hsin Ming, and Amrut Laya.

>

> I have also read the teachings of Dennis Waite, Nisargadatta

> Maharaj, Ramana Maharshi, H.W.L. Poonja, Ramesh Balsekar, Swami

> Satchidananda, Byron Katie, Eckhart Tolle, David R. Hawkins, Leo

> Hartong, Sailor Bob Adamson, Wei Wu Wei, Thich Nhat Hanh, Easwaran

> and quite a few more besides these.

>

> Perhaps too much reading, not enough meditation and reflection?

>

>

> Warm regards,

> Dot.

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Shyam,

 

Thankyou for your pointers. I have a few questions.

 

a. Regarding a long distance guru, are there guru's available and accessible via the internet? Where are they found, how does one choose one?

 

b. Regarding bhakti - devotion to the lord to help lightens one's ego -

 

which lord would this devotion be to?

If all is Braham why select a separated form from within the illusion to show devotion too? I feel more inclined to be devoted to finding the truth - knowing self as Atman/Brahman. I do feel very appreciative to the workings of MAyA (or the concept of Ishwara) as it continues to provide me with increased understanding and opportunity to develop this truth - I don't feel particularly drawn to the path of devotion.

Is it not sufficient to help lighten ones ego by surrendering it to the higher mind - the buddhi, to not indulge the ego in its desires and aversions by developing strength in the buddhi and the skill required to pick up and be aware of ego desires and aversions as they arise, to observe those ego desires, and ignore them - to not indulge the ego.

 

c. Regarding Purushartha - or self-effort towards cultivating shamaadi shatsampatti and leading a life of activity with the attitude of karmayoga, until one attains chittashuddhi.

 

I don't understand what purusashartha, shamaadi shatsampatti mean.

I understand karmayoga as being service without any desire for outcome or reward from individual action. To see all activity as a service to God. I see Karma yoga is a very appropriate means of seeing one's self as only a process within the whole, and also regard this as a beneficial activity that will lead one further towards establishing understanding of one's self as the wave in the ocean - a patterning of form rising, falling, changing in the ocean of Brahman.

 

I do understand a few sanskrit terms but I am finding with the messages in the group I have continually ended up taking a time consuming search on the internet for meaning as each word appears in an effort to understand the meaning of the statement. I cannot continue to do this as it takes too long and generally I don't end up with a suitable answer anyway.

 

I also must apologise for forgetting to cut the previous post from my last post.

 

I welcome all comments in regards to these questions.

 

warm regards,

Dot

 

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[Guest guest]

Pranams

 

Please accept my apologies for my usage of sanskrit terms without

meaning, (inspite of numerous gentle knuckle-raps from Prof-ji and

Dennis-ji to not use them without their word-meanings and to use them

in the universal ITRANS format!)

 

There are numerous branches of Swami Chinmayananda-ji, Swami

Dayananda-ji, Ramakrishna Missions, and Divine Life Society almost in

every country, and so a traditional advaitic teacher has become easier

to find, anywhere on the globe.

 

In terms of ones accessible via the internet/email, the only

traditional Swami-ji whom i know freely uses and responds to email

would be Swami Omkarananda-ji, a direct disciple of Swami

Paramarthanda-ji.

 

More learned and senior members in this forum may be aware of others

as well.

 

Of course my Guru-ji Swami Paramarthananda-ji (and in fact most others

) do find time to respond by post to their students' correspondence to

questions, doubts and other clarifications - oceans of compassion that

they are!

 

With regards to shatsampatti - these are the traditionally listed

six-fold qualifications that are felt to be necessary in a pupil at

least in some measure to be considered fit for vedantic study...

 

I had briefly elaborated on this in a earlier post of mine - 33478

Prof-ji's translation of the Sage of Kanchi's magnificently divine

work "Advaita Sadhana" of course contains a veritable and

authoritative treatise on this subject - a must-read indeed.

 

Your understanding of karmayoga is indeed correct - but when examined

closely itself reveals what bhakti is all about. In my earlier msg

33009 I had somewhat elaborated on this theme.

 

Regards to Bhakti - in response to a recent query from Vinayaka-ji i

had written a few words about Ishwara in vedanta..(no.34285) and

earlier as well (#32618 and #32619)

Once again i will refer you to Prof-ji's translation of Advaita

Sadhana for an exposition on this subject as your time permits.

 

I always welcome an opportunity to share some thoughts on this topic,

and thank Dennis-ji for having allowed this to be part of one of the

subsequent monthly topics.

 

Thank you for your insightful comments/questions.

 

Once again, my apologies for my unrestrained use of sanskrit words

without qualifying them with their meanings. I do need to exercise

more caution on this score in my subsequent posts.

 

(One suggestion to you, and others who have expressed the same problem

with understanding some Sanskrit words/terms, would be to freely make

use of this forum and clarify those words or expressions from scholars

such as Subbu-ji and Sada-ji, rather than attempt a internet-search...)

 

HariOM

Shri Gurubhyo namah

 

Shyam

 

advaitin, Advaita Rules <advaitarules wrote:

>

> Dear Shyam,

>

> a. Regarding a long distance guru, are there guru's available and

accessible via the internet? Where are they found, how does one

choose one?

>

> b. Regarding bhakti - devotion to the lord to help lightens one's ego -

>

> which lord would this devotion be to?

 

> c. Regarding Purushartha - or self-effort towards cultivating

shamaadi shatsampatti and leading a life of activity with the attitude

of karmayoga, until one attains chittashuddhi.

>

> I don't understand what purusashartha, shamaadi shatsampatti mean.

 

> I do understand a few sanskrit terms but I am finding with the

messages in the group I have continually ended up taking a time

consuming search on the internet for meaning as each word appears in

an effort to understand the meaning of the statement. I cannot

continue to do this as it takes too long and generally I don't end up

with a suitable answer anyway.

 

> warm regards,

> Dot

[Guest guest]

Thankyou Shyam for your considered response to my questions and the excellent references. I have read through the messages you referred to and found the paragraph below particularly helpful from message 34285

 

"Hence alone it is that Parabhakti and Jnana are not

separate entities - they are one and the same thing.

With regards to those who dismiss Ishwara as a

theoretical concept, (or worse, find it to be a

distraction!)etc, the very dismissal points to an ego

which is doing the dismissing - Ishwara as

Hiranyagarbha is as real as this ego then. For anyone

who pontificates about Ishwara, Ishwara is Real. For

one who has transcended his ego, Ishwara is His very

Self. What is Real is Ishwara, Ekameva Adviteeyam,

naught else."

 

 

I am also part way through reading Prof-ji's translation of the Sage of Kanchi's work "Advaita Sadhana".

 

cheers,

Dot

 

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