Is DHYANA is just a mechanical act of using a Mantra ?

January 5, 2007

Dennis-ji,

It is a good practice to welcome new members with such warmth and

show of affection.

But something that you mentioned at the end of your post took me by

surprise and that is ...

(than dhyAna - meditation, usually in the sense of the

mechanical act using a mantra.)

i would like to recall here the following verses from Viveka

chudamani :

The reality of the supreme self is extremely subtle and is not

capable of being experienced by those of coarse vision, but it can

be known by those worthy of it by reason of their very pure

understanding by means of a mind made extremely subtle by

meditation. 360

As gold purified in a furnace loses its impurities and achieves its

own true nature, the mind gets rid of the impurities of the

attributes of delusion, passion and purity through meditation and

attains Reality. 361

(www.Realization.org)

MEDITATION OR DHYANA HAS ITS OWN IMPORTANCE IN . MANTRA JAPA

IS EQUALLY POTENT IN ANY FORM OF MEDITATION .

As you have pointed out yourself one way of getting rid of ignorance

(avidya) is through contemplation of the Divinity in all of us -

what better way to purify one's mind except through Mantra japa , an

age old spiritual practice in all religious traditions.

The very word 'mantra' is made of two syllables

man and tra

man means mind and tra means that which ptrotects mantra thus is a

divine sound , the chanting of which, bestows us with divine powers

and purifies our minds .

Aum is one such sacred syllable in Hinduism - the repettitive

chanting of which is concidered to be spiritually uplifting .

Kathopanishad states

" Aitdveyvaaksharam brahm eitdvayakshram param !

etdveyaksharam gyatva yo yadichchchti tasya tat !!

"God with qualities, and supreme Brahman without qualities, are both

represented by word "AUM" and those who chant it they go to the

highest goal as per their wishes"

Mantra shastra is an 'ocean' and one cannot know its depth without

entering it!

AUM IS SHABDA BRAHMAN

and there is an even a technique on how one should chant this sacred

syllable !

It is said in the beginning, the sadhak does does not realize the

full meaning of the mantra but due to constant practice and

repetitive chanting , the divine Truth is realized in due course of

time ! WHAT STARTS A MECHANICAL WAY OF CHANTING SOON BECOMES A

SECOND NATURE ! SMILE! It is believed that Hanumanji was so used to

chanting the Taraka mantra that even while 'yawning' he used to

say 'jai ram , sri ram , jai siya ram.'

We have all heard of the Bramara kita nyaya in vedanta .

the story of the wasp and the caterpillar how the caterpillar

becomes the wasp by constantly thinking about the latter so also

jiva becomes brahman by constantly meditating on Brahman! ;

When you constantly meditate on Brahman you also attain

Brahmakara-vritti( the sole ultimate thought of Brahman alone to the

exclusion of all other thoughts that is arrived at through intense

vedantic meditation.)

Our daily life itself is meditation . This is the way of THE SAGES

AND THE SAINTS - as you think , so shall you become . If you say and

think 'i am siva ; i am siva '..... you will attain siva-hood."

Aum shanti! shanti ! shantihi!

January 6, 2007

Dhyanasaraswati-ji,

<< But something that you mentioned at the end of your post took me by

surprise and that is ...

(than dhyAna - meditation, usually in the sense of the mechanical act using

a mantra.)>>

This comment was not meant to suggest that dhyAna is of no value. In the

context of 'preparation of the mind' it is of tremendous value.

Nevertheless, it is only knowledge that will remove ignorance; 'experience'

of Brahman is not the answer. Experiences have a beginning - and an end - in

time. Incidentally, I do NOT want to reopen the discussions on samAdhi! :-)

Best wishes,

Dennis

January 6, 2007

-

Dennis Waite

advaitin

Saturday, January 06, 2007 5:13 AM

RE: Re: Is DHYANA is just a mechanical act of using a

Mantra ?

Dennis-ji wrote...

Nevertheless, it is only knowledge that will remove ignorance; 'experience'

of Brahman is not the answer. Experiences have a beginning - and an end - in

time.

Dear Dennis-ji...

Can you say how you would distinguish the "experience" of Brahman from the

"knowledge" of Brahman? And do you really think either is possible without

the other for complete removal of avidya?

Joyce

January 7, 2007

Dear Madam,

Excellent question which makes the answer obvious.

(Quote)

The cries of all jackals are the same. So are the teachings of all

the wise ones the same.

Sri Ramakrishna

Your in Sri Ramakrishna,

Br. Vinayaka

> Dear Dennis-ji...

>

> Can you say how you would distinguish the "experience" of Brahman

from the

> "knowledge" of Brahman? And do you really think either is

possible without

> the other for complete removal of avidya?

>

> Joyce

>

January 7, 2007

Namaste:

Your statement below is true under certain conditions but

contemplation, we will be able to recognize that all cries are not

necessarily the same. For a layman the cries of all jackals are the

same but a knowledgeable person will be able to discriminate the

cries. For example when the baby cry, the mother has the instinct to

know whether the child is crying for food, or due to pain in stomach or

because of a need for a diaper change! Sometime when the child's cry

doesn't stop in spite of all attentions, the mother then takes the

child to the doctor. For vedantins, there is only one TRUTH and we seek

the wisdom to find that Ultimate Truth.

The second statement, "So are the teachings of all the wise ones the

same" could also be misleading without thorugh understanding what the

wise are saying. At the most, we can say that the teachings of all the

wise ones have noble goals, but they will not necessarily lead to the

same Ultimate Truth!

I like the following statement attributed to Swami Vivekananda: Though

the top of the mountain can appear different from a distance, for those

reached the top, it will become the same! His message is quite powerful

and subtle but he is very precise - for a realized person there is

only one absolute Truth.

With my warmest regards,

Ram Chandran

Note: This is just my opinion and is subject to corrections if any.

advaitin, "Vinayaka" <vinayaka_ns wrote:

>

> The cries of all jackals are the same. So are the teachings of all

> the wise ones the same.

>

January 7, 2007

advaitin, "Ram Chandran" <ramvchandran

wrote:

>

> Namaste:

>

> Your statement below is true under certain conditions but

> contemplation, we will be able to recognize that all cries are not

> necessarily the same. For a layman the cries of all jackals are

the

> same but a knowledgeable person will be able to discriminate the

> cries. For example when the baby cry, the mother has the instinct

to

> know whether the child is crying for food, or due to pain in

stomach or

> because of a need for a diaper change! Sometime when the child's

cry

> doesn't stop in spite of all attentions, the mother then takes the

> child to the doctor. For vedantins, there is only one TRUTH and we

seek

> the wisdom to find that Ultimate Truth.

Dear Sir,

Here the example has be taken in the figurative sense only. It is

very natural to have difference of sound coming from animals of same

species even when they express the same emotion or feeling. A really

wise man knows to recognise true and intended meaning coming from

sounds even when there is an apprant difference. For example. A

grown up boy may call his father as 'papa' a small child can call

him only pa and a little one can call him only ppp.. But the will

the father be offended by the little one? Not at all. Personally i

feel Sri Ramarkishna is talking about from the highest standpoint

only.

-------

> The second statement, "So are the teachings of all the wise ones

the

> same" could also be misleading without thorugh understanding what

the

> wise are saying. At the most, we can say that the teachings of all

the

> wise ones have noble goals, but they will not necessarily lead to

the

> same Ultimate Truth!

>

> I like the following statement attributed to Swami Vivekananda:

Though

> the top of the mountain can appear different from a distance, for

those

> reached the top, it will become the same! His message is quite

powerful

> and subtle but he is very precise - for a realized person there

is

> only one absolute Truth.

--------

I would like to thank you very much for bringing this point. My

understanding of the statement is also the same.

But some people use this metaphor in the following manner.

Full Statement is:

"Truth (or God or Brahman) lies at the summit of a very high

mountain. There are many diverse paths to reach the top of the

mountain, and thus attain the one supreme goal. Some paths are

shorter, some longer. The path itself, however, is unimportant. The

only truly important thing is that seekers all reach the top of the

mountain."

Interpretation:

While this simplistic metaphor might seem compelling at a cursory

glance, it leaves out a very important elemental supposition: it

makes the unfounded assumption that 'everyone wants to get to the

top of the same mountain!' As we will soon see, not every religion

shares the same goal, the same conception of the Absolute (indeed,

even the belief that there is an Absolute), or the same means to

their respective goals. Rather, there are many different

philosophical "mountains", each with their own very unique claim to

be the supreme goal of all human spiritual striving.

--------

This very clearly shows how the wonderful and catholic statement of

the sage is reduced to an interpretation breeding sectarianism. Let

me reiterate again that 'wise' is meant by the 'knowers of ultimate

truth' and not people with noble intentions whose realisations fall

short of truth propogated by Advaita Vedanta and who want to

climb 'different mountains'. We have ample example of seers and

sages from different paths who have arrived to nothing less than the

ultimate truth.

To be frank with you sir, just after posting this sayings of Sri

Ramakrishna i repented very much. This is one of the radical

statements by one of the greatest prophet of mankind who propogated

religious harmony which is the need of the hour. A catholic

thinking, purity and sadhana oriented understanding is required to

know the true import of such sayings. It is only bigots,

intellectual dilettantes who decry these things in the

aforementioned way which shows their stupidity and headweight.

If we ask them have you reched the top of the mountain your religion

assures they blink and they dare say that they know about the all

the mountain tops under the sun!

Let me stop here as i feel this will cause unnecessary digressions

and topic is beyond the scope of the list.

Yours in Sri Ramakrishna,

Br. Vinayaka

January 7, 2007

Dear Joyce,

Experience cannot remove ignorance. Despite the fact that we have the

knowledge that the sun does not go around the earth, we nevertheless

continue to experience 'sunrise' and 'sunset' each day. Similarly,

despite the fact that everything we experience is brahman, we are

still ignorant of That.

Experience is in time whereas true knowledge is timeless. Even the

experience of samAdhi comes to an end.

Experience is not itself of any value; it is not the memory of it or

the thoughts about it which are of value but the knowledge which has

been distilled from it.