Which heaven do good Christians go to?

[Guest guest]

Satyaloka?

[Guruvani]

sadly, I think many of them will end up in the livestock yard in the waiting line to the slaughterhouse.

No heaven for those who are cruel to animals.

Meat-eaters don't go to heaven.

They become the animals that they ate.

[mahak]

Maybe you ought to go eat a hamburger.

 

There are two types of attraction, by lust and by anger. Hatred of the meateater is demoniac and against the princliples set forth by the great gosthyanandi acarya, Srila Prabhupada. He has delivered the meateaters, not sent them to hell.

 

Sane people do not get angry when they see a lacking in religious principle. Eating meat is not part of the teachings of Lord Jesus Christ, nowhere does he teach eating meat. The fact that many who claim to follow him is well noted, expecially by Srila Prabhupada who noted that the so-called christian who eats meat is one who is NOT following Lord Jesus Christ.

 

Get a grip, gv. Haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

 

Srila Prabhupada also taught us never to be falsely proud of our austerities on following of the principles he has set forth. He noted that such pride will certainly cause us to return to old habits.

[theist]

 

Rukmini: Is there a Christ-loka?

Prabhupada: Yes. Why not? There are innumerable lokas. Why not Christ-loka? [break]

...jagad-anda-koti-

kotishv asesha-vasudhadi-vibhuti-bhinnam

tad brahma niskalam anantam asesha-bhutam

govindam adi-purusham tam aham bhajami

In the effulgence, bodily effulgence of Govinda, just like the sunshine is effulgence of the sun planet, similarly, Govinda's planet, the original planet, which is called Goloka Vrindavana, that is the original effulgence, light. And when that light is distributed there are innumerable universes created. Just like within the sunlight there are innumerable planets. So in each and every planet there are different kinds of living entities, so why not a planet belonging to Christ? There is no doubt about it. There must be. [break] The Fifth Canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam, the description of different planets are there. [break] Question?-SB 7.9.12 lecture

 

So we know from Gita that after death one goes to the object of his worship. Worship Jesus and you will go to Jesus. Then one's training about the Personality of Godhead can commence in earnest and those actual followers of Christ can be reinstated in their natural rasa with Krsna.

 

It is my belief that Christ has been going from one fallen planet to the next perpetually rescuing fallen souls in this way.

[sanatan]

 

sadly, I think many of them will end up in the livestock yard in the waiting line to the slaughterhouse.

No heaven for those who are cruel to animals.

Meat-eaters don't go to heaven.

They become the animals that they ate.

 

 

What, then, is the reason for the existence of mleccha-sastras (principally, the Bible and the Quran), if there is no hope for meat-eaters?

 

Being a vegetarian actually doesn't mean squat...Srila Prabhupada pointed out that monkeys are vegetarians.

[Kanaka]

Mahak, how is it that in the Aqurian gospel of Jesus Christ he is purported to have criticized Lord Jaganath. Not looking for a fight here. I want to know your answer.

 

I do not believe most Christians will be getting any kind of reward if they are eating meat and keeping slaughterhouse. Mahaprabhu said directly to the Kazi, 'you are going to hell' (for killing the cows) . If Jesus does not influence them to stop giving up animal slaughter how can they go to heaven just by professing to be Christians?

[theist]

 

Mahak, how is it that in the Aqurian gospel of Jesus Christ he is purported to have criticized Lord Jaganath. Not looking for a fight here. I want to know your answer.

 

I do not believe most Christians will be getting any kind of reward if they are eating meat and keeping slaughterhouse. Mahaprabhu said directly to the Kazi, 'you are going to hell' (for killing the cows) . If Jesus does not influence them to stop giving up animal slaughter how can they go to heaven just by professing to be Christians?

 

I will offer an explanation to consider if it is all right. If you accept that Jesus was in Puri as described in the Aquarian Gospel in the first place then you should also accept that Jesus lived within Jagannatha Temple for four years whic the book also says. Why would he live there for four years if he didn't accept Lord Jagannatha as his Lord? Four years is a long time. The problem Jesus had was with the priests and caste brahmanas and they wanted to kill him. religionist have always been the enemies of the transcendentalist. They wanted to kill Bhaktisiddhanta also. Their Jewish counterparts demanded that Jesus be crucified.

 

During Ratha Yatra Jesus commented that there is no way to God from an idol shrine. This is Vaisnava teaching. If we are perceiving the Deity as a material creation of wood stone or marble then we are idol worshippers. The Deity is pure transcendental substance, Sat Chit Ananda , the Lord Himself. We must attain this vision.

 

He also commented on all the frenzied people in the rowd.. Frenzy is not ecstasy although the frenzied usually think it is. He said that Krsna lives not as in the noise of tongues. Krsna is not material sound vibration.Interesting to note he was accepting that Krsna was God. This is a fact. We can not force the Lord to appear if we chant with material conceptions. He comes as suddha nama. Any other chanting is nama bhasa at best, a prelude to the arrival of suddha Krsna nama.

 

I have been chanting off and on for a long time but it is a fact that I have yet to say Krsna's name even one time. When I chant it is practice with a "practice" name that has the power to cleanse us of our offenses so that at some point the transcendental sound of Krsna will actually be there.

 

It is a symptom of we kanistha's to mistake practice for the real thing much like a child with a play truck imagines he is driving the real thing. The begginning is not the end of the process. This has to be understood at some point for advancement to be made.

[theist]

 

If Jesus does not influence them to stop giving up animal slaughter how can they go to heaven just by professing to be Christians?

No one goes to heaven by professing to be Christians or hare krsna's either for that matter. Jesus himself says that he will reject all those that profess to be his followers but yet do not do the will of the Father.

 

We should not think we are pure because we don't eat meat. The Lords mercy descends upon the fallen and not the pure. The pure don't require mercy.

 

If we were more introspective we would take note of of own inner hatreds towards others and our self-righteousness in considering we are deserving of the Lord's mercy and others are not.

 

The Lord will save those He wishes and he requires no reason to do so other than He wants to. Causeless mercy.

 

How did Ajamila receive the mercy of Narayana? He was hardly leading a pious life when death approached him. But by some nama bhasa he was given a break. We can't discount the moments of sincere prayer and calling out to God that others do, from meateaters to prostitutes and drug addicts. The Lord measures these things as He wills.

[Kanaka]

Thanks for your explanation.

[mahak]

I dont accept the aquarian gospel, its a later day creation like the urantia book. I prefer the 1st century histories written by the scholars of that day, females, whose libraries were burned at the stake of christian mysogeny at Trent, 324 AD. However, my understanding from a godbrother who actually told Srila Prabhupada of the content of the Aquarian Gospel is that Lord Jesus Christ was wanting to attend to Lord Jaganatha, but was prevented by the brahmana community that refused to allow him to do so. According to my scholarly friend, Lord Jesus Was driven away from Puri. Actually, my friend has also surmised that Lord Jesus again appeared as Haridas Thakur, who was also deprived of association of Lord Jaganatha, yet Lord Jaganatha cam to Him (Haridas) daily in the form of Lord Chaitanya.

 

haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

[theist]

 

Actually, my friend has also surmised that Lord Jesus again appeared as Haridas Thakur,...

 

I think the same Mahak. The paralles between the lives of Haridas Thakur and Jesus Christ are really quite amazing. It would make for an interesting small book if those paralles were gathered up and nicely presented. Your scholar friend maybe?

 

On the Aquarian Gospel(which I love BTW) Srila Prabhupada actually read the whole thing. I know someone who was with him at the time he was reading it who said he became excited after reading certain parts. Srila Prabhupada never said it was completely bone fide though but he repeated some parts in his preaching. Jesus's teachings to the Jews are really much better delivered in the AG than the Bible I think.

 

You know what would be nice is if we could get a protected thread to really explore the Vaisnava teachings of Lord jesus Christ like the one you set up but without the dvivida gorilla types disrupting, blaspheming and pissing on the sacrifical fire.

 

Would that be too much to ask i wonder?

[sanatan]

 

....

 

You know what would be nice is if we could get a protected thread to really explore the Vaisnava teachings of Lord jesus Christ like the one you set up but without the dvivida gorilla types disrupting, blaspheming and pissing on the sacrifical fire.

 

Would that be too much to ask i wonder?

 

I hope not...it's a great idea.

 

Theist...your posts 7 and 8 are awesome.

[theist]

 

I hope not...it's a great idea.

 

Theist...your posts 7 and 8 are awesome.

 

Thank you sanatana.

 

pranams

[Guruvani]

 

Maybe you ought to go eat a hamburger.

 

 

Maybe you could make a bumper sticker out of that and make a million dollars selling it to McDonalds?

Nope, no matter how fallen I get I will never fall to that level.

 

Even if I gave up Hare Krishna (which I practically have), I would never go back to meat eating.

I was a vegetarian even before I became a Hare Krishna.

Hellsfire, even some hatha-yogi converted me to vegetarianism before I even knew what Hare Krishna was.

 

anyway, I make a veggie burger from my own recipe that is hundreds of times more tasty that a patty of ground beef.

 

My veggie burgers are THE BEST veggie burgers on the planet and I make them from scratch.

 

Sorry dude, I don't even think I could eat a hamburger for a million dollars.

Some things you just can't buy with money.

 

I am a very strict veggie and have been all along.

 

I have no desire to eat meat or I surely would since I am a go-dasa.

[Guest guest]

 

I will offer an explanation to consider if it is all right. If you accept that Jesus was in Puri as described in the Aquarian Gospel in the first place then you should also accept that Jesus lived within Jagannatha Temple for four years whic the book also says. Why would he live there for four years if he didn't accept Lord Jagannatha as his Lord? Four years is a long time. The problem Jesus had was with the priests and caste brahmanas and they wanted to kill him. religionist have always been the enemies of the transcendentalist. They wanted to kill Bhaktisiddhanta also. Their Jewish counterparts demanded that Jesus be crucified.

 

During Ratha Yatra Jesus commented that there is no way to God from an idol shrine. This is Vaisnava teaching. If we are perceiving the Deity as a material creation of wood stone or marble then we are idol worshippers. The Deity is pure transcendental substance, Sat Chit Ananda , the Lord Himself. We must attain this vision.

 

He also commented on all the frenzied people in the rowd.. Frenzy is not ecstasy although the frenzied usually think it is. He said

 

So once again historical facts do not match the scriptures of the meat-eaters.

 

 

We can discard the book based on historical evidence. NO ONE LIVES IN THE TEMPLE AT PURI BUT THE LORD AND HIS ASSOCIATES IN DEITY FORM. This is common knowledge. So how much other stuff was fabricated in the Gospel? I believe the whole thing was fabricated just as the Old and New Testaments are fabrications, stories borrowed from here and there. Most of the Old Testament is a rehash of the Zen-Avesta, the Zoroastrian Bible written long before the Old Testament, some of the stories are identical starting with Adam and Eve. The New Testament was written long after Jesus (if he existed at all) was gone by people who never saw him in the first place. The story of the birth of Jesus was borrowed from us Vaishanvas.

So all the evidence we have about Jesus is poor evidence.

 

The Aquarian Gospel like so many other works of the Christians and Abrahamic religions do more to discredit India and her Vedic tradition than promote it. These religions are NOT PLURALISTIC in thought. They teach we should destroy our deities etc.

 

It is being proven the Jesus mentioned in the Veda was actually put in there by Christians to woo the Hindus to Christianity. And that is what is happening in India as we speak. The same old crap. Act pious and holy then instill in the people the same old fanatical 'accept Jesus or Burn' mentality. The result women running around half naked, unwanted progeny, rape and exploitation of India, etc. etc. etc.

 

Do you know there are Christian terrorist in India who have been brainwashed into believing in Jesus who are vying for a theocratic state in North India. Same as always killing their opponents as they have for 2,000 years.

 

Mahaprabhus movement will be better served by telling the truth about Christianity and her sister religions.

[Gaea]

 

 

on that note there is very little evdence that Krsna ever existed let alone the stories of the Bhagvatham. (just playing devil's advocate)

[Guest guest]

 

I will offer an explanation to consider if it is all right. If you accept that Jesus was in Puri as described in the Aquarian Gospel in the first place then you should also accept that Jesus lived within Jagannatha Temple for four years whic the book also says. Why would he live there for four years if he didn't accept Lord Jagannatha as his Lord? Four years is a long time. The problem Jesus had was with the priests and caste brahmanas and they wanted to kill him. religionist have always been the enemies of the transcendentalist. They wanted to kill Bhaktisiddhanta also. Their Jewish counterparts demanded that Jesus be crucified.

 

During Ratha Yatra Jesus commented that there is no way to God from an idol shrine. This is Vaisnava teaching. If we are perceiving the Deity as a material creation of wood stone or marble then we are idol worshippers. The Deity is pure transcendental substance, Sat Chit Ananda , the Lord Himself. We must attain this vision.

 

He also commented on all the frenzied people in the rowd.. Frenzy is not ecstasy although the frenzied usually think it is. He said that Krsna lives not as in the noise of tongues. Krsna is not material sound vibration.Interesting to note he was accepting that Krsna was God. This is a fact. We can not force the Lord to appear if we chant with material conceptions. He comes as suddha nama. Any other chanting is nama bhasa at best, a prelude to the arrival of suddha Krsna nama.

 

I have been chanting off and on for a long time but it is a fact that I have yet to say Krsna's name even one time. When I chant it is practice with a "practice" name that has the power to cleanse us of our offenses so that at some point the transcendental sound of Krsna will actually be there.

 

It is a symptom of we kanistha's to mistake practice for the real thing much like a child with a play truck imagines he is driving the real thing. The begginning is not the end of the process. This has to be understood at some point for advancement to be made.

 

 

Christians have for centuries tried to shine a bad light on India. The accounts in the Aquarian Gospel are just a toned down version of the same old Christian history. This is a better example of the history of Puri written by Chrisitians.

 

The Christian British described Jagannath as "a frightful visage painted black, with a distended mouth of bloody horror." Seeing the grand procession of the Ratha Yatra, the British experienced further disdain and coined the term "juggernaut." This word gradually found its way into the Oxford Dictionary with the meaning "a massive, inexorable force that crushes everything in its path."

 

Even with the caste system and other deviations from pure Vedic Culture, India at the time of Christ and even today is and was hundreds of times better than western culture.

 

The idea that Jesus was kicked out of Puri by the brahmins is just another example of trying to discredit Indian culture. A similar mythical story is that the St. Thomas was murdered by brahmins in India.

 

Ramanunaja Acharya was also kicked out of Puri. He was kicked out by Jagannath Himself for trying to instruct the brahmins at Puri, he thought he could give some instructions to the servants of Jagannatha and was booted out by the Lord Himself.. The result was he learned his lesson. To this day a Brahmin in the Sri Sampradaya of Sripad Ramanuja Acharya will eat at the house of any resident of Puri regardless of what caste, whereas anywhere else in India they are not allowed to take prasadam with anyone other than a members of their own caste. And Ramanuja Acharya named Puri as one of the 108 holy places in India. Quite a different approach we see coming from a Vaishnava who was chastised at Puri. The account of Jesus sheds a very bad light on the residents of Puri.

 

Any vaishnava who witnesses the Ratha Yarta will be exceedingly happy to see the 'so called' frenzy of the crowd all worshipping THE LORD OF THE UNIVERSE. Hundreds and thousands of people from many different religious backgrounds, even Moslems all chanting the HOLY NAME in in great happiness. But Jesus calls this a frenzy?????

Jesus can chastise the servants of Jagannatha????

 

This is intolerable to hear for a Vaishnava.

 

Not all those who came from the west to India had such a hard time as Jesus seems to have had by the accounts in the Aquarian Gospel.

 

He came only 100 years before the alleged account of Jesus. I seriously doubt things could have been much different.

 

Heliodorus was a Greek ambassador to India in the second century B.C. Few details are known about the diplomatic relations between the Greeks and the Indians in those days, and still less is know about Heliodorus. But that the column he erected at Besnagar in central India about 113 B.C. is considered one of the most important archaeological finds on the Indian subcontinent. It is verified evidence of the tolerance that prevailed in India shortly before the Christian era and evidence that the Vaishnavas did not reject people from other cultures.

 

Heliodorus left tribute to India written in stone.

 

" This Garuda-column of Vasudeva (Visnu), the god of gods, was erected here by Heliodorus, a worshipper of Vishnu, the son of Dion, and an inhabitant of Taxila, who came as Greek ambassador from the Great King Antialkidas to King Kasiputra Bhagabhadra, the Savior, then reigning prosperously in the fourteenth year of his kingship."

 

Obviously Helliodorus, unlike Jesus, came to India to learn, NOT TO TEACH.

[Guest guest]

 

 

You are wrong on this point, the fact is most scholars including atheist agree of the historical Krishna. Hindu atheist and secular humanist both agree that at least such a person existed. Of course they do not believe He was God but they do agree he existed. There is much evidence to prove the validity of Krishna's time on earth.

 

But when it comes to Jesus there is no evidence other than the accounts written by Christians themselves. There is no cross references and the tales do not add up or reflect other accounts of history at that time.

 

If the Christians were really honest they would ask the question none of them want to ask. WHY IS JESUS NOT MENTIONED IN THE DEAD SEA SCROLLS?

[Guest guest]

You cannot be serious!

 

There is overwhelming evidence of Krishna's existence. Besides the writings, there are paintings, sculptures and many more historical evidences.

 

 

[theist]

 

 

Are you sure? I saw a PBS show on this point that pointed to Roman records on the person of Jesus Christ. The Romans keep metciulous records on everything and especially of the lands they conquered. They were very aware of anyone that might become a rabble rouser and Jesus was a very controversial person. Many thought he had come to overthrow Roman rule.

 

{quote]If the Christians were really honest they would ask the question none of them want to ask. WHY IS JESUS NOT MENTIONED IN THE DEAD SEA SCROLLS?

 

Maybe because the dead sea scrolls were written in the first and second century BC. There may have been later writings that I have not heard of as I am not that interested in the Dead Sea scrolls. Even then remember those are Jewsish scrolls which were concerned with the books and prophets of what we call the Old Testament.

[theist]

 

You cannot be serious!

 

There is overwhelming evidence of Krishna's existence. Besides the writings, there are paintings, sculptures and many more historical evidences.

 

Then I take it you accept the existence of Jesus on the same grounds.

 

But then someone will say that there are also the same writings pictures scultures of the devil also.

 

We need a deeper level of confirmation.

[Guest guest]

 

Originally Posted by Guestdet

You cannot be serious!

 

There is overwhelming evidence of Krishna's existence. Besides the writings, there are paintings, sculptures and many more historical evidences

 

He is serious, alright.

 

There is no evidence for Krishna outside religious sources, no writings, paintings or sculptures - just like Jesus. Either dismiss both as false or accept both as real. You cannot pick one and reject the other.

[theist]

 

 

Yes and some of those stories are just too unbelievable and exaggerated to have actually taken place on a 3d plane with Earth like physics. Like the famous statement that King Ugrasena had 12 billion bodyguards. 18 million dead at Kurkshetra but no artifacts.

 

Yet I accept Srimad Bhagavatam as"literal" Truth because Krsna has appeared there and knowledge of Him is revealed there as well as knowledge of who ourselves are. I believe in the literal rasa dance for example. I accept that Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead as described and is in fact dancing right there with the gopis in present time as we read the depictions of the Bhagavatam.

 

IOW's I accept the Bhagavatam as the LITERARY Incarnation of Krsna(God).

 

I know this makes me a heretic in everyone's mind but nontheless....

[theist]

 

Ramanunaja Acharya was also kicked out of Puri. He was kicked out by Jagannath Himself for trying to instruct the brahmins at Puri, he thought he could give some instructions to the servants of Jagannatha and was booted out by the Lord Himself..

 

What did he do, instruct them to stop smoking bidi's?

[Guest guest]

 

sadly, I think many of them will end up in the livestock yard in the waiting line to the slaughterhouse.

No heaven for those who are cruel to animals.

Meat-eaters don't go to heaven.

They become the animals that they ate.

This is pure fundamentalist propaganda. Some of the most spiritual people on the planet, like the indigenous people of North and South America, were/are not vegetarians. Do you spit on their spirituality just because they were/are not vegetarian?

 

BTW: Their shaman have visited the world of the ancestors in the astral planes, and seen those who have passed on... many were in heavenly realms.