Which heaven do good Christians go to?

[Guruvani]

 

 

BTW: Their shaman have visited the world of the ancestors in the astral planes, and seen those who have passed on... many were in heavenly realms.

I astral travelled to the realm of the shamans one time.

They were really nice people.

There is a realm where the deceased American Indians go to.

I contacted some Indian artifiacts one time in a museum and that night I astral traveled to the realm of the Indian ancestors.

 

they were dancing and singing and performing their rituals.

 

I was taken to meet the high priest shaman and he was a very nice person even though we could not communicate through language.

 

I was accepted in and allowed to witness their rituals because they accepted me as some kind of shaman also.

 

On the way back down from that realm I passed through another plane where the ancestors of the Chinese go and it was really beautiful and wonderful also.

 

All the jade and ivory and the artistic fashion was easy to recognize as like chinese.

[shvu]

 

They become the animals that they ate.

 

That is interesting. Conversely, will the slaughtered animal be born as a human?

 

Most meat-eaters eat a variety of species. Exactly which species will they take birth in? Don't guess, please. And anyway, what is the punishment in being born as an animal? The animal does not remember anything of its meat-eating past. Does not sound logical...

 

In the Vedas, there are detailed descriptions of killing and sacrificing different parts of animals into the holy fire. The excuse was, the animal would get a one-way ticket to heaven. If we take that approach, then we can probably justify killing turkeys too. Look at it this way.

 

1. The huge demand for meat in the world (the majority of the world is not vegetarian) has resulted in farms raising animals which they would not if the world was vegetarian. This gives a chance for several souls to take birth and work off some karma.

 

2. Slaughter of animals gives them a chance to take birth as humans and progress spiritually which they cannot do as animals or as souls not getting a chance to be born. Slaughter quickens the process.

 

Meat eating actually has some high-level benefits as described above. So let us praise Jesus, praise Allah and let them continue with their slaughter as in vedic India to transport the animals to a higher destiny. They are actually helping out a lot of souls. Vegetarians do not have to feel bad that they are not providing such a service. We are killing and eating lots of plants too. Not to mentions countless forms of lower life like bacteria in yogurt, etc.

 

Cheers

[Guest guest]

 

What did he do, instruct them to stop smoking bidi's?

 

Jagannatha told him in a dream. "Do not meddle in my house". He was booted 200 kilometers from Puri.

 

 

The servants of Jagannatha also eat fish and this is accepted by the Gaudiyas and not criticized. Even the fishermen in Puri are considered to be in Vaikuntha.

 

Oh but Jesus can chastise these servants of the Lord and tell them to burn their alters and idols while facing Jagannatha? He can tell them they are in a frenzy when they hold the ratha yatra???

 

You really have to be reading into this Jesus story to get the view you want.

[Guest guest]

 

That is interesting. Conversely, will the slaughtered animal be born as a human?

 

Most meat-eaters eat a variety of species. Exactly which species will they take birth in? Don't guess, please. And anyway, what is the punishment in being born as an animal? The animal does not remember anything of its meat-eating past. Does not sound logical...

 

In the Vedas, there are detailed descriptions of killing and sacrificing different parts of animals into the holy fire. The excuse was, the animal would get a one-way ticket to heaven. If we take that approach, then we can probably justify killing turkeys too. Look at it this way.

 

1. The huge demand for meat in the world (the majority of the world is not vegetarian) has resulted in farms raising animals which they would not if the world was vegetarian. This gives a chance for several souls to take birth and work off some karma.

 

2. Slaughter of animals gives them a chance to take birth as humans and progress spiritually which they cannot do as animals or as souls not getting a chance to be born. Slaughter quickens the process.

 

Meat eating actually has some high-level benefits as described above. So let us praise Jesus, praise Allah and let them continue with their slaughter as in vedic India to transport the animals to a higher destiny. They are actually helping out a lot of souls. Vegetarians do not have to feel bad that they are not providing such a service. We are killing and eating lots of plants too. Not to mentions countless forms of lower life like bacteria in yogurt, etc.

 

Cheers

 

Spoken like a true Christian. Welcome to the forum.

Hare Krishna.

[Guest guest]

Producing animals in factory farms for slaughter wastes alot of grains that could be fed directly to people.

 

The runoff from manure wastes from factory farming [the breeding of thousands of animals in vast quantities indoors so that they can never move or go outside and they live 24/7/365 in their own stool as is done with cows, chickens nowadays] pollutes rivers.

 

So it is better to be vegetarian as it has less negative impact on the Earth.

 

Plus it is just sick to eat meat. At factory farms they grind up the leftover animal parts and feed it to the animals, so that animals that are normally not cannibals become cannibals. It's sickening. Read up on it.

[Guest guest]

 

That is interesting. Conversely, will the slaughtered animal be born as a human?

 

Most meat-eaters eat a variety of species. Exactly which species will they take birth in? Don't guess, please. And anyway, what is the punishment in being born as an animal? The animal does not remember anything of its meat-eating past. Does not sound logical...

 

< Everyone gets what they desire. You will get the species you desire. The type of desires will be fulfilled in the species of your choice. If you desire to live like an animal you get a body more suitable. If you could remember your past life it would spoil your enjoyment.

Does this sound logical? Yes of course it does.>

 

In the Vedas, there are detailed descriptions of killing and sacrificing different parts of animals into the holy fire. The excuse was, the animal would get a one-way ticket to heaven. If we take that approach, then we can probably justify killing turkeys too. Look at it this way.

 

<It is also explained those sacrifices are forbidden in this age. By mantra in past ages the priests could do such wonderful things as sacrifice an animal and renew its body etc. But in this age it is forbidden. There are no such qaulified priests anymore. Therefore there is no justification for sacrificing animals>

 

1. The huge demand for meat in the world (the majority of the world is not vegetarian) has resulted in farms raising animals which they would not if the world was vegetarian. This gives a chance for several souls to take birth and work off some karma.

 

<yes what goes around comes around. But why be part of the circle????>

 

2. Slaughter of animals gives them a chance to take birth as humans and progress spiritually which they cannot do as animals or as souls not getting a chance to be born. Slaughter quickens the process.

 

<He who lives by the sword dies by the sword. Karma works perfectly. But you do not have to be part of it.>

 

Meat eating actually has some high-level benefits as described above. So let us praise Jesus, praise Allah and let them continue with their slaughter as in vedic India to transport the animals to a higher destiny. They are actually helping out a lot of souls. Vegetarians do not have to feel bad that they are not providing such a service. We are killing and eating lots of plants too. Not to mentions countless forms of lower life like bacteria in yogurt, etc.

 

<You are right that your scripture does indeed justify animal killing. That is why it is called asuric by the followers of the Veda. Follow your scripture if you like and eat all the meat and kill all the animals you like, it is your free will but please give up your faulty logic concerning the Veda and please be ready to reap what you sew. Cheers.>

 

Cheers

[sanatan]

 

He is serious, alright.

There is no evidence for Krishna outside religious sources, no writings, paintings or sculptures - just like Jesus. Either dismiss both as false or accept both as real. You cannot pick one and reject the other.

 

That's right...good post. There is probably a bit more in the way of extra-religious evidence for Jesus, but it is not significant enough to "prove" his existence.

 

 

Producing animals in factory farms for slaughter wastes alot of grains that could be fed directly to people.

 

The runoff from manure wastes from factory farming [the breeding of thousands of animals in vast quantities indoors so that they can never move or go outside and they live 24/7/365 in their own stool as is done with cows, chickens nowadays] pollutes rivers.

 

So it is better to be vegetarian as it has less negative impact on the Earth.

Plus it is just sick to eat meat. At factory farms they grind up the leftover animal parts and feed it to the animals, so that animals that are normally not cannibals become cannibals. It's sickening. Read up on it.

 

The whole thing is unfathomably gross, agreed, and any argument about Jesus's alleged vegetarianism or non-vegetarianism should begin with the facts you've cited firmly in mind.

 

He lived 2000 years ago, in a very poor area of the known world, where the people were mostly Jewish peasants who subsisted in an agrarian economy. They ate a diet of grains and vegetables, with fish and poultry when available and affordable. The meat of higher animals was rarely taken by commoners because of its scarcity, cost, and Jewish dietary customs. The point: The environment of Jesus wasn't McDonald's-land, with cows, pigs, and chickens killed by the millions in slaughterhouses and processed in disgusting factories to be mass-marketed as a customary 3x/day food item.

 

There's precious little if anything in the Bible to indicate that Jesus was a pure vegetarian, or taught his followers to be...much in the same way that the Bible lacks any more than cryptic references to reincarnation. You can't pick up a Bible and make a good case for either.

 

I accept that Jesus was a pure representative of God and taught his audience according to time, place, and circumstance. Taking at face value Vaisnava claims that strict vegetarianism and deity worship were/are indeed requirements for the attainment of a higher spiritual life, we can see that Jesus didn't push unready followers into them.

 

Srila Prabhupada understood the realities of the ancient world and the lives of its people. His strong preaching against meat eating was concerned with the slaughterhouse mentality of the twentieth century, and intended to benefit people who had infinitely more freedom in lifestyle choices than the ancients.

[Guest guest]

The book "Dominion" clearly explains all of the Christian reasons to go veg

 

Other Christian books on veg diet:

 

The Slaughter of Terrified Beasts: A Biblical Basis for the Humane Treatment of Animals

 

Good News for All Creation: Vegetarianism as Christian Stewardship

 

Is God A Vegetarian?

 

 

 

The Seventh Day Adventist Christians are a veg sect of Christianity as are some other sects of Christianity as well. There was an article in a recent Natl Geog as to who are the longest lived peoples on the planet today and it said that the Seventh Day Adventist Christians live longer than any other group of people in the US, in part due to their veg diet.

 

 

Other good books on "Go Veg" are "Diary of a Mad Cowboy" by Howard Lyman a former cattle rancher, "The Dreaded Comparison" which links the parallels between human slavery and cruelty to animals, as well as "Eternal Treblinka" by Charles Patterson which links the treatment of animals in factory farms to the treatment of the Jews in concentration camps.

 

Howard Lyman becane veg after life-threatening illnesses attributed to exposure to the chemicals used to produce meat and dairy products. He also cites the environmental devastation caused by pollution from factory farms and shares that one billion malnourished people in the world could easily be fed with the grains currently grown to feed farm animals.

 

Perhaps the most famous Christian vegetarian was St Francis of Assisi.

[theist]

Thanks guest for that post. I read matthew Scully's book Dominion. It was great and he really exposed how many of the leaders of this USA take part in canned hunts which is so demonic

 

I would like to add that as far as I can find there is only one reference to jesus eating fish in the Bible. That was after his resurrection when he appeared to his disciples and they became fearful that he was a ghost. He reached down and took a bite of what they we eating to prove he had a materially tangible body.

 

One time. Now his disciples were fishing at the time and many of his disciples were fishman before they followed Christ and I doubt he enforced a vegetarian diet on them. But like the guest said above the priests at Jagannatha Puri eat fish and these are the people who offer foodstuffs to Lord Jagannatha. Yet so many Hindus and pseudo wannabe hindus on this forum rail against Jesus the meat eater for taking one bite of fish? from his disciples plate one time. Go figure.

 

BTW were the Pandavas all vegetarian?

[krishnadasa]

 

No one goes to heaven by professing to be Christians or hare krsna's either for that matter. Jesus himself says that he will reject all those that profess to be his followers but yet do not do the will of the Father.

 

We should not think we are pure because we don't eat meat. The Lords mercy descends upon the fallen and not the pure. The pure don't require mercy.

 

If we were more introspective we would take note of of own inner hatreds towards others and our self-righteousness in considering we are deserving of the Lord's mercy and others are not.

 

The Lord will save those He wishes and he requires no reason to do so other than He wants to. Causeless mercy.

 

How did Ajamila receive the mercy of Narayana? He was hardly leading a pious life when death approached him. But by some nama bhasa he was given a break. We can't discount the moments of sincere prayer and calling out to God that others do, from meateaters to prostitutes and drug addicts. The Lord measures these things as He wills.

 

Good post,, but I guess If one says Krishna shows casueless mercy unto the fallen souls and deliver them, then h must be doing with everyone i guess,, why he doesnt,, thats coz he is not impartial.. Sometimes it looks (as in the case of Ajamila) that he has shown mercy even on the most falles souls.. but what here counts is his past lives deeds as well.. I guess if one counts th sins from the very first life of the spirit soul.. they could nullify or append depeding upon the pious or devotional deeds in many other lives.. Hope you got me here

 

Hari hari bol

[Guest guest]

Without question, Jesus existed and there is again overwhelming evidence. Many of our great vaisnava Acaryas have confirmed and spoken about Jesus Christ. That's all the evidence I need!

 

 

Then I take it you accept the existence of Jesus on the same grounds.

 

But then someone will say that there are also the same writings pictures scultures of the devil also.

 

We need a deeper level of confirmation.

[Guest guest]

I accept both. Krsna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead and Jesus Christ as a bonafide, liberated Spiritual Master.

 

 

He is serious, alright.

 

There is no evidence for Krishna outside religious sources, no writings, paintings or sculptures - just like Jesus. Either dismiss both as false or accept both as real. You cannot pick one and reject the other.

[Gaea]

 

 

Yes and some of those stories are just too unbelievable and exaggerated to have actually taken place on a 3d plane with Earth like physics. Like the famous statement that King Ugrasena had 12 billion bodyguards. 18 million dead at Kurkshetra but no artifacts.

 

Yet I accept Srimad Bhagavatam as"literal" Truth because Krsna has appeared there and knowledge of Him is revealed there as well as knowledge of who ourselves are. I believe in the literal rasa dance for example. I accept that Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead as described and is in fact dancing right there with the gopis in present time as we read the depictions of the Bhagavatam.

 

IOW's I accept the Bhagavatam as the LITERARY Incarnation of Krsna(God).

 

I know this makes me a heretic in everyone's mind but nontheless....

 

Being a heretic is a-ok

[theist]

 

Good post,, but I guess If one says Krishna shows casueless mercy unto the fallen souls and deliver them, then h must be doing with everyone i guess,, why he doesnt,, thats coz he is not impartial.. Sometimes it looks (as in the case of Ajamila) that he has shown mercy even on the most falles souls.. but what here counts is his past lives deeds as well.. I guess if one counts th sins from the very first life of the spirit soul.. they could nullify or append depeding upon the pious or devotional deeds in many other lives.. Hope you got me here

 

Hari hari bol

 

I have addressed that point already. We don't know how often or with what intensity someone may cry out God's name and beg for mercy . We surely don't know how often the Lord responds or in what manner He does so for each individual either.

 

Ajamila may have been a good brahmana in his younger life but he was rescued by nama-bhasa at the point of death. Or are you saying the power of nama-bhasa is dependent on the amount of sukriti one has amassed previously?

 

It was the Yama-dhutas who made the case that Ajamila's past deeds earned him a trip to Yama's court. The Vishnu dhutas countered with nama-bhasa at the time of death over riding his mistakes. And he wasn't even thinking of the Lord but rather his son Narayana.

[theist]

 

Being a heretic is a-ok

 

Thanks Gaea. I felt sure I would be flamed so I put on my kevlar before coming this morning.

[theist]

 

I accept both. Krsna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead and Jesus Christ as a bonafide, liberated Spiritual Master.

 

Please accept my respectful obeisances Guestdet.

pranams

[Guest guest]

Likewise Theist, Please accept my humble obeisances. Seems like 40 posts ain't enough to make some people understand that Jesus Christ and modern day Christianity are not the same! Anyways, all glories to your efforts to glorify this most compassionate personality.

 

 

Please accept my respectful obeisances Guestdet.

pranams

[Guest guest]

Forgot to modify the username in the post above.

 

 

Likewise Theist, Please accept my humble obeisances. Seems like 40 posts ain't enough to make some people understand that Jesus Christ and modern day Christianity are not the same! Anyways, all glories to your efforts to glorify this most compassionate personality.

[bija]

Quote:

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Being a heretic is a-ok

</td> </tr> </tbody></table>

<!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->

 

Thanks Gaea. I felt sure I would be flamed so I put on my kevlar before coming this morning. quote by Theist.

Kevlar jacket...lol. As long as it is not a mohair undershirt.

 

Quote: Theist is no heretic...no worries with me either mate:rolleyes:. I am beginning to love the Bhagavatam and Srila Prabhupada's purports more and more each day. And see it in a somewhat similar light.

[gHari]

"Our Father, who art in heaven,

Hallowed be Thy name".

 

Seems to me that is the heaven, the Kingdom of God.

 

BUT, they have fallen from the path. They fail to follow the instruction.

[Guruvani]

 

"Our Father, who art in heaven,

Hallowed be Thy name".

 

Seems to me that is the heaven, the Kingdom of God.

 

BUT, they have fallen from the path. They fail to follow the instruction.

Hallowed means venerated or considered holy.

It does not mean chanted.

 

Because Judaism forbids pronouncing the name outside the Temple in Jerusalem, the correct pronunciation of this name has been lost - <sup class="noprint"></sup>the original Hebrew texts only included consonants.

 

The Hewbrew name for God is a four letter word.

 

Jesus said he came to fulfill the Jewish laws not to change them.

 

The chanting of the names of God as done in Vaishnavism would be considered sacrilege to Jesus and the Hebrew religion he came to fulfill.

 

Jesus taught prayer. He certainly never advocated the chanting of the names of god which just so happens to be the Yuga Dharma given in the Vedic texts.

 

What is the Yuga Dharma of the Vedas is forbidden in the Hebrew faith.

 

go figure......