I offer three options

[Guest guest]

Dear Ramakanta Prabhu,

PAMHO. AGTSP!

With regards the lie, you write:

 

<Sorry, I did not know that you do not believe everything what you write.

I am glad to see that you do not believe that one has to suddenly drop dead

in order to be delivered.>

 

 

Apology accepted. From my words:

 

“Yet if we again apply reductio ad absurdum...”

 

It was clear I was about to point out what I perceived to be the absurd

repercussions of a position that APPEARED to assert that disciples were

transferred back to the spiritual sky at the moment they are initiated; not put

forward a theory I personally believed. Maybe it’s your problem with English.

You later claimed you were not talking about the ceremony, but I still have no

idea what you mean by phrases such as ‘the time of initiation’, ‘the

initiation’ or ‘initiate the delivery’. You simply never told us.

 

You used your misunderstanding of what I believe as the reason why you did not

want to ‘discuss delivery’:

 

<You incorrectly believe that delivery means to suddenly drop dead. Therefore I

don't want to discuss delivery with you.>

 

Now that we have cleared up your misunderstanding you have no excuse not to go

ahead and support your claim with either MATCHING evidence (if you want to

follow your own criterion for what constitutes proof in a debate) or at the

very least directly supporting evidence for the following claim which you made

long before your recent barrage of distractive and easily answered challenges:

 

“Srila Prabhupada cannot initiate the delivery of disciples on this planet

without being present (incarnated) on this planet” (Ramakanta das)

 

Of course you are free at any time to give up and drop out of the debate, but

my three options are still on the table if you want to try and prove your claim

or withdraw it:

 

1) Admit you have not yet proved the above claim with MATCHING or DIRECTLY

SUPPORTIVE evidence. In which case I shall happily, and with great relish

dismember your latest challenge.

 

2) We can go through each piece of evidence you have offered to supposedly

prove your claim one at a time (starting with the letter to JPS).

 

3) You can present for my analysis just your star piece of evidence that you

think exactly matches or directly supports the claim you have made, and which

you still maintain has been ‘proved’.

 

If you cannot prove your claim it puts you in a similar position to the GBC,

who you agree have never, to this day, provided any evidence proving that they

were authorised to initiate their own disciples in ISKCON, despite their many

claims to the contrary, and despite their definition as a body that were only

meant to manage systems Srila Prabhupada personally established.

 

Remember, of the evidence you have offered so far…

 

a) None of it contains the phrase ‘initiate the delivery’.

b) One quote you offer contains the words ‘initiates’ and ‘deliver’ but says

nothing about needing to be on ‘this planet’ in order to do it, so is

irrelevant to your claim. (We all agree the guru initiates the disciple to

deliver him- what’s the big deal?)

c) Not one of the quotes you offer contains the phrase ‘this planet’ or ‘same

planet’ or even the word ‘planet’.

d) None of the quotes even deal with the circumstances in which diksa or

initiation ‘cannot’ take place, and are thus all irrelevant to your claim.

e) None of the quotes even contain the word ‘cannot’, do they?

 

Given the above it’s just completely ludicrous that you continue to maintain

you have proven your claim. So why not set a good example and do what you have

just said is ‘very wise’? Just let me know if you want to now 'drop out' since

you have no more excuses or distractions left.

 

Best wishes

Ys

Yadu

 

 

 

 

Ramakanta (das) HKS (PAMHO.NET SysOp) (Zurich - CH)

<Ramakanta.HKS (AT) pamho (DOT) net>

Initiations in ISKCON <Initiations.in.ISKCON (AT) pamho (DOT) net>

Wednesday, January 10, 2007 6:33:00 AM

Re: Please withdraw your lie, then prove your claim.

 

 

Dear Yaduraja Prabhu, PAMHO. AGTSP!

 

 

> “Srila Prabhupada cannot initiate the delivery of disciples on this planet

> without being present (incarnated) on this planet”

 

It is nice that you repeat this statement so often.

 

 

> a) withdraw your lie

 

Sorry, I did not know that you do not believe everything what you write.

I am glad to see that you do not believe that one has to suddenly drop dead

in order to be delivered.

 

 

> b) take up one of the 3 options I have offered.

 

I chose 2). But you will have to do it without any input from me.

 

 

My guess was correct, you will not dismember my latest challenge. So it

remains intact: You don't know what you are talking about.

 

 

You can at any time give up and drop out of the debate.

 

 

ys Ramakanta dasa

 

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