Chanting Srividya -Kartik Gaurav

January 10, 2007

OM NAMAH SIVAYA

is it even possible to be without The Guru? reading your post made me

think of one time reading the Guru Gita. i'm sure you all know the

story, in the beginning Parvati asks Siva to explain the Guru

principle to Her. i posted a few of the relevant verses below;

Verse 1. Suta said:

Once, while Lord Shiva, who knows the secret of

devotion, was seated on beautiful Mount Kailas,

Parvati bowed to Him with reverence and asked:

Verse 2. The Goddess said:

O Lord of Gods whose real nature is `Om'! O Supreme

Teacher of the universe! O benevolent great God!

Initiate me into the mystery of the Guru.

Verse 3.

O Lord! By which path can an embodied being become one

with the Absolute! O benevolent great God! Initiate me

into the mystery of the Guru.

Verse 4. The Lord Said:

O Goddess, you are My very Self! I speak out of My

love for you. No one has ever asked this question,

which is a boon to all.

Verse 5. The Lord Said:

I am revealing the inscrutable mystery of all three

worlds. Listen! The Absolute is not different from the

Guru. O Beautiful One! This is the Truth, this is the

Truth.

Verse 6.

The Vedas, various other scriptures, epics, the

sciences of mantra and yantra, the Smritis and other

books.

Verse 7.

The Shaiva and Shakta treatises, and different sects

and dogmas---all these only further confuse already

deluded creatures.

Verse 8.

They are fools who practice sacrificial fires, vows,

penances, gifts, japa and pilgrimage without knowing

the truth of the Guru.

Verse 9. The Lord Said:

The Guru is not different from the Self, from

Consciousness. This is beyond doubt the Truth, the

Absolute Truth. Hence a wise man/woman must seek

his/her Guru.

then later it continues;

Verse 39.

Salutations to the Guru by whose knowledge this world

is no longer seen as an object, distinct from the

Self. His only form is Truth.

Verse 40.

Salutations to the Guru who is known to those who do

not know Her, but not to those who claim to know Her.

Nothing exists but Her.

Verse 41.

Salutations to the Guru who, though being the Primary

Cause, is seen as an effect; who is the cause as well

as the effect.

Verse 42.

This world of diversities is, in fact,

undifferentiated. It is merely a play of cause and

effect. Salutations to the Guru (who reveals this

truth).

so if all cause and effect is The Guru and God, Guru, Self, are One,

this coupled with the fact, like you said, all fruits are given by

Devi as she pleases, to whom she pleases. if this is true, what is

there to really worry about? it is said not even a leaf falls from a

tree unless it is God's will. so if we sincerely worship Devi out of

Love, with pure intention, how can we go wrong? and should we get off

course, surely we can have faith that out of Her unconditional Love

for us, She will send us an external Guru to set us back on course.

JAI MA

, kartik gaurav <omkaaraya

wrote:

>

> Here is my "opinion":

>

> Mukti and all fruits, merits as well as siddhis are gifts given by

the Divine Goddess as she pleases and to whoever she pleases. This is

mentioned in RG and Atharvaveda, where in the Rastri Devi Sukta, Devi

states that It is by her will that man becomes Rishi.

>

> On the topic of worshipping her; we perform certain acts which would

enkindle our latent bond with her, and there are many methods to

achieve this. You need not have a Guru for simple namasmarana of

Bhagawati. You need not invoke Maha Vidyas and use Bijas, that is

where things get messy. Mantras have Bijas, Shaktis and Keelakas,

along with Shapa [curses to lock the power] and are generally

murchita. In many instances the mantra after long recitation will

start to make you feel good, give you visions, dreams; however when

you decide to do a specific kamya prayoga, particularly if it is a

shata karma, then it may very well reverse on you yourself. This

actually has happened to people who have tried ucchatana prayogas with

Pratyangira and or Bagalamukhi from books.

>

> Mantras have shaktis like Dakini, Shakini, Yogini, Pishachini,

Vetala and such. These are Ganas of the Devata. They also have Adhara

Shaktis which are the Anga devatas and finally they have the antarah

Shakti which is the nature of the devata him/herself. You dont know

who comes before you, who dont know who is the reciever of your

worship when you use a mantra. Becase most mantras dont just invoke

the devata but also the paravAra of the devata as well. The Yantra,

Avarana are graphical and verbal elaboration on the nature of the

vidya/mantra and the various daivic/asuri tattvas that reside within

it. You need to be aware of them, and how each is addressed.

>

> You cannot say that, "oh today I will recite shodashAkshari or

navarna and see what happens". Becase you risk incuring the wrath of

affiliated devatas of that mantra. I am not here to give you a crash

course in mantra sadhana, however its not as simple as just picking up

a mantra from a book and reciting it yay so many times. Most of those

methods and even the mantras themselves are approximations. It is very

rare to see people who have inborn talent in sadhana, sometimes

without the aid of a Guru, this is believed to be a result of their

prarabdha.

> A Guru is a person who has mastered the mantra and it is alive and

well within their person. By recieving diksha, they impart to you a

small essence of that mantra and you simply do the purushcharana to

awaken it fully within yourself. This is where japa of vidyas become

relevant. Unless you have prarabdha, unless you have bhakti or unless

you have Guru you cannot achieve success. Prarabdha and Bhakti are

immeasurable elements here, that is why most scripture just leave it

at the Guru.

> We are all people who are trying to achieve the Grace of Shakti,

thats why most of us actually bother looking for groups and

communities affiliated with her puja online. None of us can dictate to

you what is right or wrong, we can just simply suggest and sometimes

assert you on consequences of actions on account of either experience

or scriptural knowledge.

> Please do not fret about chanting Shri Vidya. Most people have

dedicated their lives in finishing off preliminary sadhanas, and other

grueling rites before they were given maha shodashAkshari amongst

other mantras. I know this the hard way lol. It takes a lot of time,

effort and dedication to go that far. And if you discuss this then you

may incur some aggression from certain members because many who do it

the formal way dislike and are agaisnt those who just "wing it".

> I am not here to tell you what is going to happen to you. For all we

know you are some maha vibhuti here to proove mankind wrong, that a

Guru is not needed. I dont know. Parampara has done me a lot of good

and I suggest if you want to go into Shri vidya, then please abide by

a Guru. Once again my opinion.

>

> Send instant messages to your online friends

http://au.messenger.

>

January 11, 2007

Namaste,

I feel that you did not real the whole post that I gave you, since it is consistent with what the Guru Gita, as per the sections you had replied me with. The Guru Gita itself has less popularity and is far less ubuiquitous than Srimad Bhagawata Gita [hereon Gita]. Gita changes with bhasya and sometiems even in text from area to area and therefore from one parampara to another. It is the king of all Gitas and within it there is a strong emphasis on tradition, since the Gita has the Guru Parampara, as Krishna elucidates it to Arjuna of his specific brand of Yoga. Gita itself is not accepted everywhere, likewise Shri Vidya or Tara Krama is not accepted or achknowledged everywhere. To mix scriptures and traditions suggests a lack of understanding of them.

Bhavana Upanishad also remarks on consciousness and says that it is the sign of siddhi. We are not born as siddhas; however the quality of siddhi is latent within us. To become siddha is to activate that siddhi. Therefore in such a context, consciousness becomes the realization of Shakti and Vimarsha. It is the realization that all is Shiva and that Shiva and Shakti are the one and the Same. It is where one becomes rudra.

Also, I may say that you are mixing tradition with unorthordox means of achieving Devi. One who is without Guru can also invoke her and worship her, however this is only done with Namasmarana and it can be far more effacacious than even the practices of one who is in a Parampara. This depends on purity of mind, heart [bhava] and prema towards Devi. Later on, when one actually goes deeper into namasmarana and it starts to become dhyana, does Devi guide you to an appropriate master.

You are of the opinion that you can take up Shri Vidya or any vidya for that matter without a Guru. Vidyas, mantras, tantras and yantras come from lineages. When Bhairava realized Kali Ma's Krodha Bija, he then taught it to his shishyas. Same with Daxinamurty and Dattatreya. They all passed on this information. When Siddhas of a preexisting parampara realize Devi in a different light, then they establish their own system and soon you have lots of branching within one tradition.

These branches have similarities and also stark differences. The Guru is therefore required to point out what is right and what is not optimal for you. You have to understand that dozens of people real eating, sleeping, breathing human beings dedicated long hours of dhyana and worship to perfect thier understanding and approach to her. They passed this result to those they saw fit as keeping the lineage alive, and so that is how a parampara is established. It is how perfected knowledge of mantras and sadhana is transferred where the Guru and Shishya are small vessels for something that transcends both of them.

Vidya sadhana and mantra sadhana have protocol, you do nyasa, avarana, bali, tarpana, homa, pranayama, kriya and japa as part of puruscharana as a minimum. Having a Guru, getting diksha and upadesha are part of that protocol. You shouldnt wing mantra sadhana, since it can cause harm. People arent telling you that you must have a Guru so that you conform to the norms, it is because they are concerned you may really end up not experiencing the proper phenomenon of Devi's Grace. Some may also feel offended that you are bringing up such a prospect.

Without a Guru, without a Parampara what you will need to do is establish the fundamental basics alone. This means not using the vidya that someone else had realized. It all comes down that that. As you can obviously see its much harder to do it with a Guru than without one.

I would be lying if I told you I didnt know people who got mantra siddhi and infact high levels of siddhi without having a master. I actually know of a few, who had achieved great feats alone and independently. These are the types of people who need not get validation from a group online, nor from others. They know [innately] what is to be done and how it should be done, they just use scripture as a guideline. Through a lot of hard work and a lot of dedication did they reach that point. However their journeys culminated in having a master, although they strongly believe one is not NEEDED, they advise that a practitioner at least should have someone who can guide them. This is why I initially did not abruptly say the normal "Go get a Guru" message, because I know people have gone through into Tantra sadhana without having a master.

If you really are terribly seeking success in her sadhana, I suggest you use shabar mantras. That is all I am going to say

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