Advaita for the Novice : 'You are fit for Vedanta'

[Guest guest]

Namaste, Lady Joyce,

 

You write in your post #34543 about the four requirements for study of

Vedanta, that Sada-ji listed as the "four D's", and you seem to be

questioning in yourself "in termness of your fitness or predisposition".

And you continued:

 

 

"I attend a Chinmaya Mission, where there is ample

opportunity for me to study with one of the learned

Swamijis, yet I choose to reserve my time to attend

Rudrabishekam instead, content to sit and sew malas

for Lord Shiva and Ganesha! So, am I fit for Vedanta?"

 

Yes, you are fit for Vedanta. For, it means the Lord has noted your

*shraddhA* ( = faith) in attending the Rudrabhishekam, and sewing malas for

Shiva and Ganesha and it is He who has decided you are to remain in this

group in order to study Vedanta for the Novice, which Sada-ji is providing

for you.

 

Note that Sada-ji, also says:

 

"The discipline of the mind (the third D above) involves

six basic disciplines of the mind for uncompromising commitment for the

study - most important among them is a full faith in the import of Vedanta,

as explained by the teacher"

 

That is the shraddA part that you have. So have no qualms about the four

D's. The one quality of Faith will take you all the way.

 

Thanks for expressing your trepidation. That gave me an opportunity of

focussing this 'Faith' part, which Sada-ji has also underscored.

 

PraNAms to all advaitins.

profvk

 

For almost everything you wanted to know about Hindu philosophy, go to

http://www.geocities.com/profvk/

For an English translation of Kanchi Mahaswamigal's Discourses on Advaita

Sadhana go to

http://www.geocities.com/profvk/VK2/Advaita_Saadhanaa.html

[Guest guest]

My dearest Friend Lady Joyce :

 

If at all anyone is 'fit' for studying Vedanta , it is Thou ! it is

thou ! it is thou ! i fully endorse professorji's statement on

this !

 

One of the basic requirements in a spiritual path is the bhava

of 'surrender' ( sharanagati - your weaving of garlands for Lord

shiva and ganesha is ample proof of that bhava- you are engazed in

the transcendental service to the Lord )! Your chanting of the

holy mantras ( kirthanam and bhajanam - rudrabishekam etc) prove

that you are approaching the lord in a manner of total vinaya (

humility) =- all pointers thowards - faith ( aka shraddha) - and

who else but the faithful one obtains knowledge ? ( shraddhavaan

labhate jnanam as per Srimad Bhagvat gita ) !

 

in any case , you have the infinite grace of Lord Siva and SRI

RAMANA BHAGWAN ( i know this from my hanging out with you in Harsha

satsangh - your devotional pictures on Lord siva and the mrityunjaya

mantra are worth a thousand words! )

 

i see some new beginnings for this group in 2007 -Dennis ji is

trying his level best to make 'vedanta' a household word and we must

all join and extend our support and encoragement to make this

possible ! Sadaji has retired from his job but he is taking time

from his daily saadhna to teach us all the basic principles of

vedanta - and i am sure we can learn a lot of VALUABLE lessons in

advaita from him. only a lit candle can light another!

 

in any case , i want you to know that Sri ramana himself says in his

Upadeshasaram,

 

" The supreme duties of body, speech and mind are ritual, mantra and

meditation.

 

Our nature compels us to act. Liberating action consists of

spiritual practices. These are threefold according to the three

aspects of our nature as body, speech and mind. The supreme bodily

duty is puja or service to God and humanity. The supreme duty of

speech is mantra or repetition of Divine names. The supreme duty of

the mind is meditation. "

 

So, my girl friend , you are as 'pure' as they come and therefore

well qualified to pursue the study of vedanta ! !

 

Since your ishta-nishta is Lord Siva , you are already on the right

path! The mandukya upanishad says `Santam Sivam Advaitam'. By

meditating on lord shiva , you can attain all that is peaceful,

auspicious and above all non-duality!

 

please, be like the 'bee' in the srimad bhagvatam and drink the

divine nectar of wisdom from every source !( including the words of

the wise ones in this group )!

 

AND BELIEVE ME , THERE IS A WORLD OF DIFFERENCE BETWEEN kNOWLEDGE

AND WISDOM!

 

KNOWLEDGE IS PROUD IT KNOWS SO MUCH !

 

WISDOM IS HUMBLE IT KNOWS NO MORE !

 

love and best wishes

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

advaitin, "V. Krishnamurthy" <profvk

wrote:

>

> Namaste, Lady Joyce,

>

> > Yes, you are fit for Vedanta. For, it means the Lord has

noted

your

> *shraddhA* ( = faith) in attending the Rudrabhishekam, and sewing

malas for

> Shiva and Ganesha and it is He who has decided you are to remain

in this

> group in order to study Vedanta for the Novice, which Sada-ji is

providing

> for you.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Dhyanasaraswati-ji and ProfessorVK-ji:

 

Thank you both for your kind words and your

encouragement. As I stated in my post, I will

absorb what I am ready to absorb and place

that completely in the hands of the Lord. Which

brings me to this next thought, which is this...

 

If Advaita admits of no "other", ie, I am Brahman,

then how can there be a Lord, or Ishwara? Each of

you spoke in terms of this, indicating that I am in

the hands of the Lord, and I completely accept

this, but this is exactly the reason I also questioned

my fitness for Vedanta. To speak in such a fashion

implies a separateness, which, to my understanding,

is not consistent with advaitic philosophy...

 

Professor VK-ji wrote:

 

Yes, you are fit for Vedanta. For, it means the Lord has noted your

*shraddhA* ( = faith) in attending the Rudrabhishekam, and sewing malas for

Shiva and Ganesha and it is He who has decided you are to remain in this

group in order to study Vedanta for the Novice, which Sada-ji is providing

for you.

 

Note that Sada-ji, also says:

 

"The discipline of the mind (the third D above) involves

six basic disciplines of the mind for uncompromising commitment for the

study - most important among them is a full faith in the import of Vedanta,

as explained by the teacher"

 

That is the shraddA part that you have. So have no qualms about the four

D's. The one quality of Faith will take you all the way.

 

========================================================

Dhyanasaraswati-ji wrote:

 

One of the basic requirements in a spiritual path is the bhava

of 'surrender' ( sharanagati - your weaving of garlands for Lord

shiva and ganesha is ample proof of that bhava- you are engazed in

the transcendental service to the Lord )! Your chanting of the

holy mantras ( kirthanam and bhajanam - rudrabishekam etc) prove

that you are approaching the lord in a manner of total vinaya (

humility) =- all pointers thowards - faith ( aka shraddha) - and

who else but the faithful one obtains knowledge ? ( shraddhavaan

labhate jnanam as per Srimad Bhagvat gita ) !

 

========================================================

 

Please note that I point this out not to argue the point

but to help clarify the point, as for me this is one of

the seeming contradictions in Advaitic philosophy,

and I suspect it can be confusing to others as it is

to me. How can one accept and embrace Advaitic

philosophy and continue to worship and surrender

to a Lord who supposedly does not exist?

 

Love and OM,

 

Joyce

 

PS Dear dear Dhyanasaraswati-ji, the Jiva

known as Joyce is far from "pure." Thank

God for the perfection of the Atman!!!

What WOULD we do without it :-)

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "Lady Joyce" <shaantih wrote:

>

> Dear Dhyanasaraswati-ji and ProfessorVK-ji:

>

>

>

> Please note that I point this out not to argue the point

> but to help clarify the point, as for me this is one of

> the seeming contradictions in Advaitic philosophy,

> and I suspect it can be confusing to others as it is

> to me. How can one accept and embrace Advaitic

> philosophy and continue to worship and surrender

> to a Lord who supposedly does not exist?

>

>

 

Namaste, Lady Joyce,

 

That is exactly the point! You say the Lord 'supposedly does not

exist!'. Who said He does not exist? From the absolute non-dual

Brahman point of view, there is no God with name and form. But we are

talking in the view of our own world, where, you, I, this world and all

our activities exist. In this world, God does exist with name and

form. Please do not confuse the Absolute point of view with the

mundane worldly point of view. If you are in the former, you are a

Jivan-mukta and there is no second thing in the world; everything is

Brahman including you. If you are in the mundane point of view,

Brahman is a distant goal, advaita is an ideal, and you, I and all our

Gods all have to exist to interact with each other!. So your

word 'supposedly' is not a supposition from our perspective, but it is

so from Brahman's perspective, if there be one such perspective!

 

To bring home my point in a more dramatic way, let me take the

statement: "You and I are one", as a corollary from advaita. But that

does not mean 'Your property is mine', because once you have used

advaita to derive a corollary statement from it, then there is no such

thing as property and therefore 'your' and 'mine' cannot be associated

with what is called 'property'. You can now see the absurdity of the

logic that arises by the mixing of the superb with the mundane!.

 

PraNAms to all advaitins.

profvk

[Guest guest]

Namaste Blessed Srimathi Joyce:

 

I love to remind you the quotation from Mahatma Gandhiji regarding

contradictions that we observed while hearing, reading and learning

the philosophical significance from our scriptures. "Mahatma

Gandhiji once said, "Whenever we find contradictions in the

scriptures, they are always due to our misunderstanding of what has

been stated." (Source: Message of Gita by Mahatma Gandhi). I totally

agree with Gandhiji's assessment that whenever we see contradictions

in the scriptures, it only exhibits our incomplete understanding of

scriptures. For advaitins, there can never be contradictions and

ProfVK beautifully summarized to you the advaitic

understanding: "From the absolute non-dual Brahman point of view,

there is no God with name and form. But we are talking in the view

of our own world, where, you, I, this world and all our activities

exist. In this world, God does exist with name and

form. Please do not confuse the Absolute point of view with the

mundane worldly point of view."

 

For dwaitans and visistadwaitans, God dwells in temples and sacred

places of the universe whereas for advaitins God dwells in their own

heart. With a purer heart we will be able recognize Him within.

There is a beautiful passage in Tulasi Ramayan expalining this

beautifully. Just before Sri Ram get married to Sita, Sri Ram and

Sri Lakshmana have gone with Sage Viswamithra to his Ashram to

protect the Vedic Yagna in the Ashram. At that time, all Rishis

request Sage Viswamitra requesting that they would love to have Sri

Ram to stay in their residence. Sri Tulasidasji describes the

credentials for those who want Sri Ram to stay. This entire passage

provides the advaitic point of "God's residence." As you might have

guessed already – Sri Ram will love to reside in undoubtedly in the

hearts of those who show kindness, goodness, equanimity, compassion

and all other noble virtues. Whenever we show kindness to others, do

a good deed, treat the poor with compassion and willing to sacrifice

our possessions to benefit others, we can witness the presence of

Sri Ram in our own heart. Unfortunately, it seems that we provide

only temporary residence to Him at the most!

 

I was very fortunate to listen to the discourses (along with the

recitation) by Pujya Swami Tejomanayanandaji ( during a summer camp

in Fredrick, Maryland conducted by CMWRC) of how Tulasidasji

describe the heart which deserve as the residence for Sri Ram. I

honestly believe that Swamiji has full blessings and the Grace of

Sri Ram and he is one of the best in injecting Bhakti while

discussing advaita philosophy. Since you are attending the Chinmaya

Mission classes in Philadelphia, you should be able access some of

the video tapes of Swamiji's discourses of Tulasi Ramayana.

 

Gandhiji's following quotation can also provide you a simple

solution whenever doubts arises in your mind during mundane life

activities: "when doubts haunt me, when disappointments. stare me in

the face, and when I see not one ray of light on the horizon, I turn

to the Bhagavadgita and find a verse to comfort me; and I

immediately begin to smile in the midst of over-whelming sorrow. My

life has been full of external tragedies and, if they have not left

any visible effect on me, I owe it to the teaching of the

Bhagavadgita." (From an address to Christian Missionaries, Young

India, 6-8-1925)

 

I am happy to note your active participation in the list discussions

which confirms that you are indeed an advaitin with the necessary

credentials and spirit.

 

With my warmest regards,

 

Ram Chandran

 

advaitin, "Lady Joyce" <shaantih wrote:

>

>

> Please note that I point this out not to argue the point

> but to help clarify the point, as for me this is one of

> the seeming contradictions in Advaitic philosophy,

> and I suspect it can be confusing to others as it is

> to me. How can one accept and embrace Advaitic

> philosophy and continue to worship and surrender

> to a Lord who supposedly does not exist?

>

> Love and OM,

>

> Joyce

[Guest guest]

Dearest Joyce :

 

How can i top what our most beloved Professor-ji and Sri Ramji have

stated - very reassuring words and full of love and compassion.

 

Yes, Sri RAMJI is absolutely right - when in doubt, Read the Gita !

 

In fact last evening , as part of my daily routine ( swadhyaya ) i

was reading Verse 8 from chapter 12 in the Srimad BHAGVAT GITA !

 

mayy eva mana adhatsva

mayi buddhim nivesaya

nivasisyasi mayy eva

ata urdhvam na samsayah

 

SRILA PRABHUPADHA'S TRANSLATION

 

 

Just fix your mind upon Me, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and

engage all your intelligence in Me. Thus you will live in Me always,

without a doubt.

 

Swami Chinmayananda's translation ( from the Advaitin files)

 

Fix your mind on Me only, place your intellect in Me; then,

(thereafter) you shall, no doubt, live in Me alone.

 

SRI Krishna BHAGWAN SAYS FURTHER IN VERSE 10 OF THE SAME CHAPTER ,

for those of us who find it hard to do the above ,

 

abhyase 'py asamartho 'si

mat-karma-paramo bhava

mad-artham api karmani

kurvan siddhim avapsyasi

 

Srila Prabhupadha's translation

 

If you cannot practice the regulations of bhakti-yoga, then just try

to work for Me, because by working for Me you will come to the

perfect stage.

 

SWAMI CHINMAYANANDA'S TRANSLATION

 

If you are unable even to practise ABHYASA-YOGA, be you intent on

performing actions for My sake; even by doing actions for My sake,

you shall attain perfection.

 

YES! LADY JOYCE , THERE ARE ALL KINDS OF CHOICES OUTLINED IN THE

SRIMAD BHAGWAT GITA FOR MEN/WOMEN OF ALL KINDS OF TEMPERAMENTS -

BHAKTI YOGA , KARMA YOGA AND OF COURSE JNANA YOGA !

 

i wonder if you have heard of Madhusudana Saraswati ? From childhood

this great Saint was a great devotee of Lord Krishna . In course of

time , Madhusudhana Saraswati attained 'Advaitic' siddhi' but did he

abandon his devotion to Krishna after he attained Advaitic

realization ? NO! here is why !

 

He says :

 

":Duality is bondage before MOKSHA, and after realization it is

wisdom ! The imaginary duality of BHAKTI is sweeter than even Non-

duality!"

 

(SUNDER-JI ! could you kindly provide the sanskrit version of this

verse . please , please)

 

 

Sri Ramji has made an interesting observation :

 

(For dwaitans and visistadwaitans, God dwells in temples and sacred

places of the universe whereas for advaitins God dwells in their own

heart.)

 

May i please quote this beautiful Sanskrit verse which comes to mind

after reading our respected Ramji's statement ?

 

Ruupam ruupavivarjitasya bhavato dhyaanena yatkalpitam

stutyaa anirvachaniiyataa akhila guro duuriikrtaa yanmayaa |

vyaapitvam cha niraakrtram bhagavato yat tiirtha-yaatraadinaa

kshantavyam jagadiisha tadvikalataa-doshatrayam matkrtam

 

 

You are bereft of any form. Yet I imagined a form in the

name of meditating upon You. . You are beyond words. No words can

explain Your nature. Yet I have sung Your glories through words.

You are all-pervading. Yet I undertook pilgrimages to

worship You in specific places

 

Adi shankara bhagvadapada , the Advaita Acharya, himself meditated

on God with form .( read his beautiful explanation of the

Panchakshari mantra- om namaha shivaya ) He wrote great devotional

verses on all deities . He did padayatra from Kashmir to Kanchi

visiting all the pilgrimage spots ! why , lady joyce ? think about

it . If jnana does not culminate in bhakti , it is useless and

similarly if bhakti does not lead to jnana , it is futile!

 

lADY JOYCE , I WOULD ENCOURAGE YOU TO READ PROFESSORJI'S MESSAGES ON

ADVAITA BHAKTI IN THE ARCHIVES OR HIS WEB SITE .... you have nothing

to lose but your 'doubts' -Smile!

 

Btw , i want to thank sriman Sunderji for posting the links on

MAHANARAYANA UPANISHAD and professorji for adding the book by

Vimalananda on this great work !

 

The Mahanarayana Upanishad is a long hymn to various forms of God

with prayers for everything from wealth to liberation. At one point

the author identifies with the divine light:

 

I am that supreme light of Brahman

which shines as the inmost essence of all that exists.

In reality I am the same infinite Brahman

even when I am experiencing myself

as a finite self owing to ignorance.

Now by the onset of knowledge

I am really that Brahman which is my eternal nature.

Therefore I realize this identity

by making myself, the finite self,

an oblation into the fire

of the infinite Brahman which I am always.

May this oblation be well made.

 

http://www.san.beck.org/EC7-Vedas.html

 

with a lot of love to my friend Joyce , this offering is made after

my brahmamuhurtha meditation .

 

OM shantihi! shanti! shanti!

[Guest guest]

Ram Chandran

advaitin

Wednesday, January 10, 2007 10:23 PM

Re: Advaita for the Novice : 'You are fit for Vedanta'

 

 

"Mahatma Gandhiji once said, "Whenever we find contradictions in the

scriptures, they are always due to our misunderstanding of what has

been stated." (Source: Message of Gita by Mahatma Gandhi). I totally

agree with Gandhiji's assessment that whenever we see contradictions

in the scriptures, it only exhibits our incomplete understanding of

scriptures. For advaitins, there can never be contradictions and

ProfVK beautifully summarized to you the advaitic

understanding: "From the absolute non-dual Brahman point of view,

there is no God with name and form. But we are talking in the view

of our own world, where, you, I, this world and all our activities

exist. In this world, God does exist with name and

form. Please do not confuse the Absolute point of view with the

mundane worldly point of view."

 

 

Namaste, Shri Ramji:

 

I can only nod in agreement with the observation that

any apparant contradiction results from my misunderstanding

and it is this acknowledgement which prompts me to now

participate in the group discussions. It is such a blessing

to those of us unfamiliar with some of the most basic

terms and concepts to have them presented to us as

a "beginner" course. I am already finding that references

in various posts are clarifying for me certain common

phrases which appear as a matter of course in discussions

which I never understood the import of until now. For example,

I never quite knew whether "I" was the subject or the object.

As silly as that might seem to some, for me, it was enough

to close that post or ignore that thread. Now, I know and

I am thankful for this gift and the

others packaged so beautifully in this list.

 

I may not always respond quickly as my mundane

world includes two sons, ages 7 and 10. Further,

I may not respond quickly because I need to think

things out slowly!!!

 

And thank you for your quotes from Ghandiji...I will

remember them when I am feeling uncertain of myself.

I might add to my earlier post to state that two other

subjects which were not my favorites included math

and science :-) Divinity does love a good challenge, no?

Knowing that all is for my highest good, may I

surrender to what comes my way with gratitude.

 

Pranams,

 

Joyce