that 'cha'

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Dear sri vaishNava perunthagaiyeer,

 

 

 

Sri KS Tatachar on 11.1.2007 wrote on that 'dhasa sapta cha varshaani'

slokam -- quote-- dasha sapta can also mean sapta dasha (70) or dasha

saptams, 10 times 7 (70) [like trissapta of puruSHasUktam, which means 3

times 7=21]. Thus, it would be 70, perhaps kausalya's age. rAma, I have

waited for 70 years with the hope that my grief will be redeemed after your

birth. This is like telling I have waited for 90 years to see my son get

nobel prize. dAsan K.S. tAtAchAr – unquote.

 

 

 

Smt jayasree saranathan on jan 12 writes in the same context – quote -- My

humble pranams. I have a small doubt. I have read your book on Purusha

sookhtham and I understand the meaning of trissapta. It is three times

seven. But in the context below 'dasha sapta cha varSHANI' why 'cha'? From

my very little knowledge of sanskrit, I see it as dasha: saptha: cha,

meaning ten and seven. What does ten and seven imply? Ten plus seven or ten

times seven? I see a parallel to this Thiruchanda viruttham pasurams, where

the addition is indicated by 'um' (ummai-th-thogai, the Tamil equivalent of

sanskrit samaasam) and an absence of 'um' (cha) indicates multiplication.

 

Kindly correct me and clarify. With humble pranams, jayasree.

 

 

 

Since both are on same point of that word 'cha' [or ca as in dictionary] and

its usage in conjunction with those two words dhasa and saptha, I deal that

as below. First the meaning of that word cha from Monier Williams Sankrit

English dictionary -

 

 

 

*ca 2 ***

 

*ca* ind. and, both, also, moreover, as well as (= ?, Lat. *que*, placed

like these particles as an enclitic after the word which it connects with

what precedes

 

• when used with a personal pronoun this must appear in its fuller accented

form (e.g. *táva ca máma ca* [not *te ca me ca*], 'both of thee and me'),

when used after verbs the first of them is accented

PÄṇ.<http://students.washington.edu/prem/mw/worksAuthorsAbbrs.html#PÄṇ>8-1,

58 f

 

• it connects whole sentences as well as parts of sentences

 

 

 

• in RV. the double *ca* occurs more frequently than the single (e.g. *aháṃ

ca tváṃ ca*, 'I and thou', viii, 62, 11)

 

* *

 

*• the double **ca** may also be used somewhat redundantly in class..

Sanská¹›it (e.g. **kva hariṇakÄnÄṃ jÄ«vitaṃ câtilolaṃ kva ca vajra-sÄrÄḥ Å›arÄs

te**, 'where is the frail existence, of fawns and where are thy adamantine

arrows?' Åšak. i, 10) *

 

* *

 

*• in later literature, however, the first **ca** is more usually omitted (

e.g. **ahaṃ tvaṃ ca**), and when more than two things are enumerated only

one **ca** is often found (e.g. **tejasÄ yaÅ›asÄ laká¹£myÄ sthityÄ ca parayÄ**,

'in glory, in fame, in beauty, and in high position' Nal. xii, 6) *

 

 

 

• elsewhere, when more than two things are enumerated, *ca* is placed after

some and omitted after others (e.g. *ṛṇa-dÄtÄ ca vaidyaÅ› ca Å›rotriyo nadÄ«*,

'the payer of a debt and a physician *and* a BrÄhman *and* a river' Hit. i,

4, 55)

 

 

 

• in Ved. and even in class. Sanskṛit [Mn. iii, 20 ; ix, 322 Hit.], when the

double *ca* would generally be used, the second may occasionally be omitted

(e.g. *indraÅ› ca soma*, 'both Indra *and thou* Soma' RV.vii, 104, 25

 

 

 

• *durbhedyaś câśusaṃdheyaḥ*, 'both difficult to be divided *and* quickly

united' Hit.i)

 

• with lexicographers *ca* may imply a reference to certain other words

which are not expressed (e.g. *kamaṇá¸alau ca karakaḥ*, 'the word

*karaka*has the meaning 'pitcher' and other meanings')

 

• sometimes *ca* is = *eva*, even, indeed, certainly, just (e.g. *su-cintitaṃ

câuá¹£adhaṃ na nÄma-mÄtreṇa karoty arogam*, 'even a well-devised remedy does

not cure a disease by its mere name' Hit.

 

• *yÄvanta eva te tÄvÄṃśca saḥ*, 'as great as they *were* just so great was

he' Ragh.xii, 45)

 

• occasionally *ca* is disjunctive, 'but', 'on the contrary', 'on the other

hand', 'yet', 'nevertheless' (*varam Ädyau na cântimaḥ*, 'better the two

first but not the last' Hit.[Page 380, Column 2]

 

• *Å›Äntam idam ÄÅ›rama-padaṃ sphurati ca bÄhuḥ*, 'this hermitage is tranquil

yet my arm throbs' Åšak. i, 15)

 

• *ca-ca*, though-yet Vikr. ii, 9

 

• *ca-na ca*, though - yet not Pat.

 

• *ca* - *na tu* (vḷ. *nanu*), id., MÄlav-. iv, 8

 

• *na ca* - *ca*, though not - yet Pat.

 

• *ca* may be used for *vÄ*, 'either', 'or' (e.g. *iha câmutra vÄ*, 'either

here or hereafter' Mn. xii, 89

 

• *strÄ« vÄ pumÄn vÄ yac cânyat sattvam*, 'either a woman or a man or any

other being' R.), and when a neg. particle is joined with *ca* the two may

then be translated by 'neither', 'nor'

 

• occasionally one *ca* or one *na* is omitted (e.g. *na ca paribhoktuṃ

nâiva Å›aknomi hÄtum*, 'I am able neither to enjoy nor to abandon' Åšak. v, 18

 

 

• *na pÅ«rvâhṇe nÄ ca parâhṇe*, 'neither in the forenoon nor in the

afternoon')

 

• *ca-ca* may express immediate connection between two acts or their

simultaneous occurrence (e.g. *mama ca muktaṃ tamasÄ mano manasijena dhanuá¹£i

śaraś ca niveśitaḥ*, 'no sooner is my mind freed from darkness than a shaft

is fixed on his bow by the heart-born god', vi, 8)

 

• *ca* is sometimes = *cêd*, 'if' (cf. PÄṇ. 8-1, 30

 

• the verb is accented) RV. AV. MBh. Vikr. ii, 20 Bhartṛ. ii, 45

 

• *ca* may be used as an expletive (e.g. *anyaiś ca kratubhiś ca*, 'and with

other sacrifices')

 

• *ca* is often joined to an adv. like *eva*, *api*, *tathÄ*, *tathâiva*,

&c., either with or without a neg. particle (e.g. *vairiṇaṃ nôpaseveta

sahâyaṃ caiva vairiṇaḥ*, 'one ought not to serve either an enemy or the ally

of an enemy' Mn. iv, 133)

 

• ( See *eva*, *api*, &c.) For the meaning of *ca* after an interrogative

See 2. *ká*, 2. *kathÄÍ*, *kím*, *kvá*) ; [cf. ?, Lat. *que*, *pe* (in *

nempe* &c.) ; Goth. *uh* ; Zd. *ca* ; Old Pers. *cÄ*.] -2

 

 

 

>From this, it is clear that dhasa saptha cha means

 

dhasa and saptha – which means ten and seven = 17 -- if we use cha with

meaning of 'and'

 

ten, both, seven, = 17 which means both words are to be conjoined – ten and

seven taken together = which means 17

 

ten, also seven, = 17 which again means add 7 to 10 and then take the total.

 

Ten, moreover seven = 17 = which means 7 over and above 10

 

Ten as well as 7 = 17

 

 

 

And here it is NOT 'dhasa saptha', which means 10 times seven or seven times

ten.

 

 

 

To take that purusha sooktham slokam 'thris saptha samitha krithaa' – The

slokam reads 'sapthaasyaasan paridhhaya: thrissaptha samitha kruthaa:' and

then goes on to other context. So thris saptha means three times seven or

seventimes three and not 3+7 =10 for we do not have that cha in the slokam.

In raamaayaNam slokam that cha helps us to interpret as 10 + 7 = 17.

 

 

 

Similarly there is 'ekO na vimsathi' is used for 19 – means - in a sum of 20

one is not there or there is one less, which in simple arithmetics it is

20-1=19. This is peculiarity of the language.

 

 

 

Further it is also added in the dictionary that 2 cha-s are used to connect

two things in rig vedham – like - raama cha lakshmana cha – to mean raama as

well as lakshmaNa. But in later literature, only one cha is used – like -

raama lakshmaNa cha - to mean raama and lakshmaNa.

 

 

 

Perhaps now you can recollect in chamakam – [rudhram chamakam as generally

it is said] how many cha are used to connect what all are desired. [Re

article of sri sudarsan swamy of Kuwait – titled marrai nam kaamangal

maarru].

 

 

 

Further this 'um' - ummaith thogai is also slowly disappearing and is

replaced with 'maRRum' – to say tamilnadu and pondichery, it is stated

nowadays 'tamilnadu marrum pondichery' and not 'tamilnadum pondicheriyum'.

 

 

 

Trust the point is adequately clarified.

 

Dhasan

 

Vasudevan m.g.

 

 

--

Vasudevan MG