are worshippers of kaali evil?

[Guest guest]

please explain significance of kaali maa devi

 

what does she represent - good or evil?

[Guest guest]

Depends, what you want.

Gopis did katyani ( a form of Durga) vrata to get Krishna as husband.

 

So if you ask ma kali for devotion of Krishna it is above goodness . If you ask give me money so that I can do goodness to mass, it is good. If you ask give me money to kill others, it is evil.

 

YS, DEV

[Guest guest]

does that mean you can ask ganesha for something and if you then use it for evil purpose ganesha is involved in the evil act

 

or is kaali the only deity capable of providing assistance to bad people ie if you were a villain then you would worship kaali similar to the devil's role in christianity or islam?

 

does she control demons does she possess people

 

kaali maa shakti de

[Guest guest]

is the world and all the horrors. There is no good and evil, this is a duality based misconception. Kali Ma is simply servant (as are all demigods) of those who serve her.

 

One may view the skulls and corpses and rituals with aghast, but it aint no different than a modern american hospital with the dementia, cancer and pneumocistitis. The very best this world has to offer is that loved ones are dragged away by more powerful forces because they were self-slain (yes, all death is suicide, created by the individual by taking birth in the first place.)

 

Kali Ma is in the same catagory as the goddess of learning, Vayu, Varuna, Surya. Death is no different than the blowing of the wind (is dylan around).

 

haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

[Guest guest]

unfortuntely cannot comprehend previous post - suicide because purposely born? kaali maa is a servant but what is her purpose though?

explanation without usual illogical wiseman mumbojumbo please

[Tomasso]

Ramakrishna was a devotee of Sri Kali Ma. Was he evil?

[Guest guest]

Those whose intelligence has been stolen by material desires surrender unto demigods and follow the particular rules and regulations of worship according to their own natures.(7.20)

[Guest guest]

Fact is, this world is the place of death, there are no survivors. So, if one comes to this place (martyaloka), death is the way we all leave.

 

Now all so-called evil is a product of such frustration of being an eternal being stuck in a form that must die. You dont want mumbo jumbo, I dont give mumbo jumbo. Worship of demogods such as kali ma is done for material gain, a nice hoime, a nice position, fame, fortune, a good partner and friends and family, but they all die, you all die, so the gift demigods give is for those who die, thus they are all evil.

 

However, if one worships a particular demigod and asks for something that doesnt die, then this is never evil. If one worships ganesha and desires him to remove all impediments to ones devotion to the Supreme Lord, such worship is valid and beneficial.

 

Anyway, why ask if you deride those who try to answer.

 

Haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

[Guest guest]

 

please explain significance of kaali maa devi

 

what does she represent - good or evil?

 

 

No.

 

My Guru, Srila Bhakti Rakshak Sridhar Dev Goswami Maharaj once told me that the worshippers of Kali are more spiritually advanced than Christians.

[zjj]

You are forgetting who you are talking about. Kali Mata is the wife if Shiva, the mother of Ganesh and the controller of the material world. She is an eternal devotee of Lord Krishna and controls this world according to his desire.

 

So by suggesting that she is evil you have committed an offense against a Vaishnav and thus it is an offense against Krishna. I suggest you ask her forgiveness.

 

The skulls and blood that she is depicted with are symbolic of her role as destroyer of demonic activity. The story is that there were many demons on earth who were harming the devotees. Because these demons had performed penance and been granted boons by Shiva and Brahma, not even Vishnu could harm them. So Mother Durga grew angry and her anger gave her a ferocious form. She descended to earth and destroyed all the demons. That is why she is so frightening to look at, because she represents the anger of a mother protecting her children.

 

There are many instances of people performing penance and asking for boons that they then use for evil purposes. Ravan, Kumbhakaran, Holika, even Duryodhan asked a boon of Balram. That does not mean that the deity who gives them that boon is evil. By the laws of Karma, someone who performs penance must be given a boon, this is Krishna's law. Whether that boon is used for good or bad is up to the individual.

 

Jai

[Guruvani]

 

No.

 

My Guru, Srila Bhakti Rakshak Sridhar Dev Goswami Maharaj once told me that the worshippers of Kali are more spiritually advanced than Christians.

Second hand hearsay is not acceptable in devotional circles.

 

I could say that my gurudeva told me that Christians ARE worshippers of Kali, but if I have no proof then there is no reason to even say it.

 

Christians chase after all things material.

Doesn't that make them followers of Kali?

[Guest guest]

Dont want to start nothing here, as Ive had enough of that, but another form of Mary, outside this realm, is that of a great goddess crushing the serpant of materialism. Thanx, zjj for explicitly discussing the position of Sri. She is the mother of vaisnavas, because she is the wife of our ultimate spiritual authority Lord Shiva. Her activities in this world are duty, just as Lord Yamaraja is also very fearful to look at, as Lord Nrsmhadeva is also very fearful. However, purified souls like Prahlada do not see the fearful aspect, just as Sri Revatananda did not see the devastating form of Kali Ma as she did Her duty.

 

This concept of good and evil is not part of the vaisnava school of thought, because what we see as good may be the dark side and vis a vis. For the Vaisnava, there is only suddha sattwa, pure goodness. The concept of evil; is existantr only in the hearts of those in ignoraNCE OF THE SELF.

 

The concept of good and evil is a bogus christian idea where they conclude that the supreme lord has a competitor, the devil. That the devil has power over the Supreme Lord when it comes to taking control of a particular being. But it is not really evil, it is simply sleep-like ignorance, which has rectification by the awakening process of yoga.

 

Evil is just a concoction to control the masses with fear. Certainly there is despicable action in the world, but it is not other-worldly or caused by anything other than forgetfulness by the individual of the actual self. Death, being the most fearful thing, as explained above, is the tool of the fear mongers, thus they make up salvationist philosophies.

 

Haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

 

PS All Glories to Srimati Kali, the mother of all who are born.

[Guest guest]

There are four main branches of Hinduism: Shaivite, Vaishnava, Smarta, and Shakti. Kaali Goddess would come under branch of Shakti. Shakti is the energy of the Divine.

 

Things are only scary if you don't know about them. If you don't do level headed objective research then you just rely on hearsay and urban legends

then you may think things are scary when they are not.

 

Like what is so scary about a bunch of skulls? Are you scared on Halloween [uS]or Fasching [Germany] also and start crying then? Are you are scared in the same way that when the British first saw Lord Jagannatha they thought He was a scary bloodthirsty evil demon? That is about 180 degrees opposite of what Jagannatha is if you study the stories.

 

Jagannatha is Charm and Beauty Personified and He was in separation mood from His Shakti or Energy of Affection and Love Personified, Radhika. Such was His separation mood He became inert like wood. So yea that is sooo bloodthirsty and scary and demoniac, omigod. Oh yes how evil, not like stringing up your spiritual master on a cross and eating his body and blood.

 

 

So just learn who Kaali is. Kaali is manifestation of Divine Mother...Kaali Ma.

Do you have some fear or hatred of mothers? Mothers know very well all about us and love us with beautiful love of tigress defending her young. And also has some beautiful inner meanings as well.

 

The Gods and Goddesses very playful and sportive. Kaali Ma seeing if Shiva loves Her no matter what She does or what She looks like: does He have unconditional love for Her? Yes you loved me as Uma, as Parvati, as Sati, but do you love me even I appear like this? It is like the mature love of people when all teeth failing out and hair falling out and grey hairs and wrinkles and

doing some heavy job you don't want to be photographed for People magazine at that moment taking care your kids with no makeup on.

 

Kaali Ma is asking Shiv, "You liked me when I was so beautiful the daughter of King Himavat, the daughter of Daksa, but do you love me when I can do very good job of to be Warrior Princess? Do you still love me even it appears I am doing some man's job better than any man can do? When I am not being doe-eyed kumari girl with sidelong glances like Radhika to Krsna? Hmmm? Hmmm? Hmmm? Do you still love me after I have given birth our children all bloody and sweaty? What do you say, mmm?" Is like the Sheryl Crow song that Kaali Ma sings: "Are you strong enough to be my man?" But Shiv not such a wimp as Lance Armstrong or Eric Clapton.

 

 

 

These kinds of inner questions Kaali Ma is asking of Shiva. As you know some the Vaisnavas think Shiv is like yogurt and Krsna is like milk. Well in this world men are at their peak after they have been around a while..like fermenting so to speak. So then why not also Mahadev Gopeswara also?

"As above, so below."

 

So Kaali only appears ugly to you if you do not know Her. Like on Saturday Night Live one character played by Jon Lovitz used to say, "Get to know me!"

 

Yes maybe your grandmother so elderly and wrinkled and hunched-over. But when you think what she had to do to make sure your dynasty survive then you can see her beauty. In Braj Mandala Kaali Ma is Paurnamasi, the grandmother. She decides if even Radha and Krsna can be together. No one can even conceive how great is Kaali Ma.

 

After you learn about Her, you will see Her beauty. Or some will. Then they are the bhaktars of Kaali Ma. They see Her everywhere.

 

 

 

Like remember when had the big tsunami in Southeast Asia? Do you know which religion was able to do the rescue work the best without being horrified by the stench and the dead bloated bodies? It was the Buddhists. Because they do a meditation so that they identify 'I am not the body" to picture your body dies, then is eaten by animals, then dried bones, then the dried bones disintegrate, then as dust in the charnel grounds, then Kaali Ma and Shiv are there dancing.

 

So they do as their meditation to see Kaali Ma part of the cycle of life. Like some people see "Eeewww, dirt!" But a scientist knows it is soil. And soil comes from the ecosystem: that some things must break down and die to make compost and humus. So the spiritual scientist knows Kaali Ma is so beautiful the mother watches over all of us and protects us like a tigress defending her young.

 

Every soul is at different level of maturity. So some people maybe they are attract to Kaali Ma for wrong reasons. The same way some people attracted to Gaura lila or Krsna lila for wrong reasons. But doesn't mean anything wrong with Gaura or Krsna or Kaali Ma, just because immature people are young souls. There are good and bad and mixed up people in every tradition.

 

When you become mature you understand how your elderly grandmother is very sweet and beautiful. So same with Kaali Ma. "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder." All the Goddesses are just different energies of the Divine. Is just a way we can discuss that particular energy by giving it a name. Jai Kaali Ma.

[mahak]

reciprocal love is always such a great topic.

 

She did get very angry at Lord Siva when, in anger, he cut off the head of the fdully grown Ganesha, She called him a ragged bum who is so alloof that he cannot recognize even his own son. But She also did not waver in her pure love of Him, and he responded by reviving Ganehsha, the great muse and scribe, the remover of impediments to ones service to Lord Krsna.

 

more, more.

 

hare krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[zjj]

Thank you mahak and guest for those beautiful insights in to Kaali Mata. She is our mother and is always viewed as beautiful even if her mood is angry and violent.

 

All Glories to Srimati Kaali Ma, the beloved of Shiv and mother of us all!

 

Haribol!

 

Jai