Caste conscious Hindus should be ashamed

[Guest guest]

Thankfully most western and younger generation Hindus no longer believe in the caste system, and reject it as discriminatory and backward and have done away with the whole conception, just as the great Indian avatar Buddha taught people to do, BUT believe it or not there are still some older Indian Hindus who have rejected the great avatar Buddha's message of equality and compassion, and these Hindus WHO have REJECTed such basic spiritual teachings (on equality and equal compassion for all sentient beings), still believe in caste divisions and inequalities.. bringing shame on all the millions of un-prejudiced and compassionate Hindus.

 

As casteism continues, it furthers the fragmentation of Indian society. In fact, you could say that it has practically killed Vedic society and has brought about the numerous divisions and social quarrels that we now find in India. Even amongst the Hindus alone, there has been fighting along caste, ethnic and sectarian lines for hundreds of years. This is one of the main reasons why the country has been weakened to such a degree that they could not properly defend themselves in a unified way from the genocide under the Muslim invasions and modern fundamentalism. This sort of fragmentation was also a factor that helped force Indians to endure two centuries of British persecutions.

 

Casteism today does not help society advance spiritually. In fact, it helps promote contempt and disapproval among the people of different classes and ethnic groups. For this reason, we still see today that when the shudras and Dalits feel like they are disliked by fellow Hindus, they become Muslims or Christians or Buddhists in the attempt to find greater acceptance elsewhere and avoid class distinctions. The result of this has been social disharmony. Otherwise, there would have been no need for parts of India to be divided to create Bangla Desh and Pakistan, which have since become nothing more than mortal enemies of India. Have any lessons been learned? Apparently not. Ethnic intolerance is on the rise in many parts of India.

[Guest guest]

 

Thankfully most western and younger generation Hindus no longer believe in the caste system, and reject it as discriminatory and backward and have done away with the whole conception, just as the great Indian avatar Buddha taught people to do, BUT believe it or not there are still some older Indian Hindus who have rejected the great avatar Buddha's message of equality and compassion, and these Hindus WHO have REJECTed such basic spiritual teachings (on equality and equal compassion for all sentient beings), still believe in caste divisions and inequalities.. bringing shame on all the millions of un-prejudiced and compassionate Hindus.

 

As casteism continues, it furthers the fragmentation of Indian society. In fact, you could say that it has practically killed Vedic society and has brought about the numerous divisions and social quarrels that we now find in India. Even amongst the Hindus alone, there has been fighting along caste, ethnic and sectarian lines for hundreds of years. This is one of the main reasons why the country has been weakened to such a degree that they could not properly defend themselves in a unified way from the genocide under the Muslim invasions and modern fundamentalism. This sort of fragmentation was also a factor that helped force Indians to endure two centuries of British persecutions.

 

Casteism today does not help society advance spiritually. In fact, it helps promote contempt and disapproval among the people of different classes and ethnic groups. For this reason, we still see today that when the shudras and Dalits feel like they are disliked by fellow Hindus, they become Muslims or Christians or Buddhists in the attempt to find greater acceptance elsewhere and avoid class distinctions. The result of this has been social disharmony. Otherwise, there would have been no need for parts of India to be divided to create Bangla Desh and Pakistan, which have since become nothing more than mortal enemies of India. Have any lessons been learned? Apparently not. Ethnic intolerance is on the rise in many parts of India.

 

 

buddha was not the first one by any means to question the caste system. lord krishna and many other sages who were anti-brahminical sought to bring together humanity. lord krishna simply sought to harmonize society by giving them the method to attain god hood through him. lord krishna specifically staes in the gita that a brahmin means the knower of god and anyone can attain brahminhood regardless of birth or social status. he also states the man who sees everyone equally stands supreme. remember, the gita is slightly older then buddhism. many proclaim that lord krishna was a jain, which seems likely to be true. there is ample evidence that lord krishna (who was a historical person) was def. against the brahmins of those times. the brahmins, later absorbed krishnas teachings under their fold, much like they did with buddha. unfortunately they have been misusing krishnas and buddhas teachings for thousands of years.

[Guest guest]

There were sages in the Upanishads that opposed the birth-based caste system before Buddha lived, supporting the idea of caste being based on actions, gunas of a person, not birth-family. There are parts of the Vedas which give an idea of this. Caste became rigid and hereditary later on in Hinduism.

[Guest guest]

Thank you for your informative posts. It is clear, as I said in my first post, millions of Hindus despise the whole practice.. and many Hindu Masters, like Ammachi and Shree Maa, are like the Buddhist Masters and Bodhisattvas, compassionate and looking at everyone with an impartial eye. Interesting these are 2 female Gurus, both thought to be incarnations or avatars of the Divine Mother. The Divine Mother does not discriminate against any of Her children! ahh if we could only enter Her heart.

 

I believe it's the Gurus and Swamis who need to continue speak out the loudest against casteism and discrimination, and the hideous practice of untouchability.. so like Buddhism, Hinduism can be recognized as a compassionate religion, one aimed at the betterment of all people. Certainly no one can read the Bhagavad Gita and think that Hinduism is such a religion and think that Hinduism is a discriminatory or elitist religion. On the contrary, Sri Krishna's words speak words of Light, Love and Liberation (the 3 L's) to the souls of all men.

 

Referencing Buddha's teaching is a good thing, IMO, when we talk about discrimination, because one important thing Buddha taught us, was the need for us awaken in ourself, the altruistic Heart of Compassion (Bodhicitta); as we seek our own release from Samsara. We must see all beings in our self and our own self in all beings... to discriminate against someone because of their birth status, is the most unspiritual thing we can do; and we are hating ourself in the process. We might as well be demonic, and not hide behind the pretense of holiness, if we are going to be like that.

 

And another thing: those people who you discriminate for whatever reason, for their caste in life, race, or whatever, those people may have been your mother, wife or child in a past life. Think about this. Think about how we are all inter-connected, and have connections that go back for millions of lifetimes, and those we hate and despise now because we think they are beneath us, may be our very friends and loved ones from past lives. Might be wise to start treating everyone with love and compassion.. when you realize this.

 

May all beings be in Peace. May all beings be free from suffering.

[Guest guest]

 

buddha was not the first one by any means to question the caste system. lord krishna and many other sages who were anti-brahminical sought to bring together humanity

 

Nonsense. Where did Buddha question the caste system? People should first understand what is defined by the terms caste & varna. Please show some evidence that Krishna was anti-Brahminical.

 

 

lord krishna specifically staes in the gita that a brahmin means the knower of god and anyone can attain brahminhood regardless of birth or social status.

 

No, he does not. That is simply wishful thinking not to mention gross misinterpretation.

 

 

...there is ample evidence that lord krishna (who was a historical person) was def. against the brahmins of those times

 

No. You need to backtrack and read some.

 

 

...unfortunately they have been misusing krishnas and buddhas teachings for thousands of years.

 

Well, now that you are here, this problem is solved!

 

The Varna system is defined by the Rig-Veda and by tradition it has been by birth only. The caste system is different and consists of sub-groups inside Varnas which are also birth based. In present times, the rigid borders are gradually weakening similar to other countries like China, etc. A Varna based society has been set down by Krishna himself and to state that it is a bad thing is actually taking one away from Krishna's teachings. By tradition, this system has been by birth. One is obviously free to disregard tradition and make new rules as convenient. In this particular case, it is important for foreign devotees to find a way to become Brahmanas and therefore tradition which does not allow this must be false for them to find a place in the Varna system.

 

On a positive note, non Bramin devotees eager to twist tradition and history in order to become Brahmanas may also want to read this article www- gosai-com dvaita madhvacarya Brahmana-Vaisnava.html (Insert a forward slash for every space and periods for the first two hyphens to get the url). Someone who is aware of the situation has taken a different approach by trying an ontological comparison between the Brahmana and the Vaishnava and guess who comes out the winner? If you accept this article, then you need not desire to become a Brahmana and there is no need to misinterpret anything.

[Guest guest]

 

Thankfully most western and younger generation Hindus no longer believe in the caste system, and reject it as discriminatory and backward and have done away with the whole conception, just as the great Indian avatar Buddha taught people to do, BUT believe it or not there are still some older Indian Hindus who have rejected the great avatar Buddha's message of equality and compassion, and these Hindus WHO have REJECTed such basic spiritual teachings (on equality and equal compassion for all sentient beings), still believe in caste divisions and inequalities.. bringing shame on all the millions of un-prejudiced and compassionate Hindus.

 

This is your own opinion. It is not required for Hindus to follow the teachings of another religion (Buddhism). You obviously are ignorant of the differences between the Varna system and the Caste system and more importantly their impact on Indian society from the past to the present.

 

India with its Varnas and castes was doing very well until the global focus shifted to Europe during the industrial revolution. Until that time, China and India were wealthy regions with the highest GDP in the world. During the time of Akbar, it is estimated that his kingdom which comprised of the major part of South-east Asia was the wealthiest in the world. Then the industrial revolution happened in Europe and Eastern countries completely missed out on that due to a number of reasons which changed world economy.

 

To close, Hindus do not feel ashamed to follow traditional rules as these rules cause no harm to anyone. Revered Hindu icons like Shankara and Madhva have clearly reaffirmed the importance of traditional systems and as long as people choose to follow their teachings, the systems shall remain. If you think they are detrimental to society, you are invited to provide rebuttal with specific examples. And again, please learn the differences between the caste system and the Varna system before you proceed on this topic.

[Guest guest]

 

Nonsense. Where did Buddha question the caste system? People should first understand what is defined by the terms caste & varna. Please show some evidence that Krishna was anti-Brahminical.

 

 

 

No, he does not. That is simply wishful thinking not to mention gross misinterpretation.

 

 

 

No. You need to backtrack and read some.

 

 

 

Well, now that you are here,

 

 

this problem is solved!

 

The Varna system is defined by the Rig-Veda and by tradition it has been by birth only. The caste system is different and consists of sub-groups inside Varnas which are also birth based. In present times, the rigid borders are gradually weakening similar to other countries like China, etc. A Varna based society has been set down by Krishna himself and to state that it is a bad thing is actually taking one away from Krishna's teachings. By tradition, this system has been by birth. One is obviously free to disregard tradition and make new rules as convenient. In this particular case, it is important for foreign devotees to find a way to become Brahmanas and therefore tradition which does not allow this must be false for them to find a place in the Varna system.

 

On a positive note, non Bramin devotees eager to twist tradition and history in order to become Brahmanas may also want to read this article www- gosai-com dvaita madhvacarya Brahmana-Vaisnava.html (Insert a forward slash for every space and periods for the first two hyphens to get the url). Someone who is aware of the situation has taken a different approach by trying an ontological comparison between the Brahmana and the Vaishnava and guess who comes out the winner? If you accept this article, then you need not desire to become a Brahmana and there is no need to misinterpret anything.

 

 

obviously youre a nazi brahmin so ofcourse you will come here and defend your caste. there are many like you who comes here to twist lord krishnas teachings. i suggest you read and do serious research yourself on lord krishna to find out for yourself. YOU dont want to admit the fact that buddha and krishna and MANY sages who were anti-brahminism because you are a brahmin yourself that believes in this nazi birth based system but the fact of the matter is....many saints, avatars and sages resisted your racist disgusting system everyday just like millions of low castes and untouchables do today but birth brahmins deny this to the halt.

 

lord krishna fought against the evil brahmins of those times and we must do his work to fight it as well.

 

Krishna was one of the greatest persons in India's

history. Brahmins have no exclusive claim over him.

[Guest guest]

An ancient Sumerian text states thus - There exist three levels of dumb people in this world -

 

Level 1 - They do not know they are dumb

Level 2 - They know they are dumb but will not accept it

Level 3 - They know they are dumb and accept they are dumb

 

The ancient Sumerian text continues thus – Level 1 and Level 3 are fine. However, the second level is a troublesome level. People in this level will make uninformed, unfounded claims on Brahmins and Krishna in Hinduism discussion forums and when challenged they will fail to provide evidence and instead retaliate with more nonsensical babble generally including Nazism, Atheism, Communism and Demons.

 

The ancient Sumerian text concludes thus - it is best to let such people go on with their ignorant rant. Eventually some of them do graduate to level 3 and then there is hope for them as they open up their minds and begin to learn, in time getting out of the above tripartite classification. Such people will know that Krishna expressly and unconditionally approved the Vedas in his Gita, including the Varna system and he was not anti-Brahminical in any sense. They will also know that no Brahmin ever claimed that Krishna was the exclusive property of Brahmins.

 

On a different note, there do appear to exist some new fangled organizations today who seem to think they have some special dedicated channels to Krishna which are not available to others. According to the ancient Sumerian text, they either belong to Level 1 or Level 2.

[Guest guest]

 

An ancient Sumerian text states thus - There exist three levels of dumb people in this world -

 

Level 1 - They do not know they are dumb

Level 2 - They know they are dumb but will not accept it

Level 3 - They know they are dumb and accept they are dumb

 

The ancient Sumerian text continues thus – Level 1 and Level 3 are fine. However, the second level is a troublesome level. People in this level will make uninformed, unfounded claims on Brahmins and Krishna in Hinduism discussion forums and when challenged they will fail to provide evidence and instead retaliate with more nonsensical babble generally including Nazism, Atheism, Communism and Demons.

 

The ancient Sumerian text concludes thus - it is best to let such people go on with their ignorant rant. Eventually some of them do graduate to level 3 and then there is hope for them as they open up their minds and begin to learn, in time getting out of the above tripartite classification. Such people will know that Krishna expressly and unconditionally approved the Vedas in his Gita, including the Varna system and he was not anti-Brahminical in any sense. They will also know that no Brahmin ever claimed that Krishna was the exclusive property of Brahmins.

 

On a different note, there do appear to exist some new fangled organizations today who seem to think they have some special dedicated channels to Krishna which are not available to others. According to the ancient Sumerian text, they either belong to Level 1 or Level 2.

 

 

The ancient sumerian texts also never approved of a racist varna system. Do you ever wonder why MANY sages including KRISHNA were ANTI-BRAHMINISM? Or do you not want to face the truth and stop absorbing everyones religion? YOU dont want to believe it but thats because people like you are living in a dreamland and continue to believe that lord buddha, lord krishna, sages of the upanishads, the 24 jain gurus, the sikh gurus and countless other people opposed the racist brahminical system and religion. the religion of KRISHNA and the BHAGAVAD GITA is not the religion of the brahmins, it was initially the system of the royal sages under jain rule. brahmins were causing havoc in those times like they always have and lord krishna sought to harmonize by teaching that varna is not brith based and anyone can achive the state of brahminhood. He also fought the wrath if brahminical god indra. krishnaism flourished under jain rule but later completely absorbed by brahmins. Many historians and scholars traced back the lineages of Lord Krishna- the Yadavas and there is ample evidence that he was not associated with the brahmins in anyway what so ever. In fact, the brahmins despised Lord Krishna, they wrote many disgusting stories about him (gopis) that are historically not true and further, they twisted his teachings for his own benefit.

 

KRISHNA was a NON ARYAN hero and the racist nazi brahmins do not want to face the truth. Brahmins just want to absorb everyones religion so they can stay on top. Truth is, you can NEVER claim Lord Krishna! You can never claim Lord Buddha! Why? none of these sages and avatars even liked brahmins, who are the curse of the world.

[Guest guest]

 

To close, Hindus do not feel ashamed to follow traditional rules as these rules cause no harm to anyone.

 

You obviously have never been to India, eh? You have not seen the harm that varna by birth system has caused to people of lower births in India?! your ignorance on this subject is woefully amazing.

 

 

Revered Hindu icons like Shankara and Madhva have clearly reaffirmed the importance of traditional systems and as long as people choose to follow their teachings, the systems shall remain.

 

They were a product of their times. Many of the more modern revered "Hindu" Gurus have condemned the "traditional" systems, as you call to them. Not to mention, many splinter religions have formed do in part to the rejection of the caste system, like the Sikhs and Vira Saivites - and not to mention all the people who have left Hinduism and converted to other religions because of this topic. The "traditional" varna-systems have caused India and Hinduism untold horror and shame.. and made us a laughingstock to non-Hindus.. see: davidickeforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=44472

[Sephiroth]

 

Thankfully most western and younger generation Hindus no longer believe in the caste system, and reject it as discriminatory and backward and have done away with the whole conception, just as the great Indian avatar Buddha taught people to do, BUT believe it or not there are still some older Indian Hindus who have rejected the great avatar Buddha's message of equality and compassion, and these Hindus WHO have REJECTed such basic spiritual teachings (on equality and equal compassion for all sentient beings), still believe in caste divisions and inequalities.. bringing shame on all the millions of un-prejudiced and compassionate Hindus.

 

Before you put Westerners on your head and parade around on how "great" they are, I wish to point out to you that it was Westerners (particularly British) who have encouraged the Caste System which exists today.

 

No, I'm not saying that there was no Caste Problem before. That is false. Even during Gautama Buddha's time (2,500 years ago), Caste is a big problem in India back then. But when Westerners came to India, they brought together what they called "Social-Status" Consciousness.

 

You see ... Western societies that time (around 1800s) were divided in 3 classes - upper class which called themselves Nobles, Middle Class (Working class) and lower society. In India, when this people sees how divided Indians are, they simply apply their own system to whatever is in India.

Upper Class (which they associate themselves with) consists of Kings, Prince/Princess, Noblemen and even occassionally, Brahmins.

 

So you see, Caste today exist not because of Hindusm alone but also as result of Indians absorbing Colonial Attitude toward India. This same attitude (called Slave Mentality) can be found in Philiphines, South America and among Black Americans in America.

[ombakth]

The low caste people are nothing but the people who were defeated in war. They were also soldier just because they were defeated in war they had become salves and hence low caste or outcaste. Suppose if they would have defeated others then even they would have been high caste and the people whom they have defeated will have been low caste or outcaste. Why farmers and traders were not considered as outcaste or low caste. The Low caste people are actually defeated and conquered warriors. Even when they ruled they might have defeated some one or the other. There is nothing called caste system in India. India is one. Everyone should respect India. All Buddhism, Jainism and Hinduism are a part of ancient Dharmic religion.

[ombakth]

Also Veda means subject it is nothing to do with caste system. for. e.g. Ayurveda = Ayur + Veda that means subject of medicine. Also, some low caste people say that they have been humiliated since long time, this is wrong. There is no low caste people at all in ancient Indian Dharma it was created by brahmins. How pope and caliph spoiled their repective religion so some of the selfish Brahmins of that era spoiled ours whereas some Brahmins followed the suite just by ignorance all Brahmins were not guilty. Sadhus and Rishi are real ascetics people of our land and no one else not even Brahmins. I am talking about Yogis and thinkers and not bhogis. Veda is a subject like Ayurveda = Ayur + Veda which means subject of medicine. It was just a documentation of all things that people learnt, invented and found at that time. One of part of the Veda contained mention of caste system. Veda itself does not means caste system it is just a document in which there is reference of caste system can be found along with all other information that were documented by different people and then clubbed into a book. Actually speaking there is nothing called Vedic religion. What Brahmans did they claimed their Authorities over Vedas and manipulated it’s contents as they wanted just like what the Vatican Christian authorities did raise their status over other common people of the society rather than practicing the true principle and teaching of Jesus Christ. Just like how Pope use the name of Jesus to rule over the common public so did the some of the Brahmins whereas other Brahmins followed the suite because of ignorance used the name of Veda to rule over the common public.

[Guest guest]

"The Lord asks not mortals caste and birth, so find thou out the Lord's True Home (truth). That alone is man's caste and that his glory, as are the deeds which he does." (Guru Nanak, Parbhati, pg. 1330)

[niranjan]

It is a fact that more than 70 per cent of the ancient Hindu Rishis, or enlightened masters of India, belonged to the lower castes.

Valmiki and Vyasa , who wrote the epics Ramayana and Mahabharatha respectively, belonged to the lower castes.

In ancient times , one's caste was determined by one's temperament, talents and inclinations. Caste was not a barrier to the lower caste people, who rose to the level of the upper castes through their talents.

This was the reason why Kshatriyas like the Buddha and Vishwamitra , became Brahmins or men of spiritual nature and why a Brahmin like Parashurama became a Kshatriya.

This is also the reason why shudras or low caste people like Valmiki , Vyasa, Vasishtha, Narada, Drona, Jabala,Karna ,Thiruvalluvar were raised to the position of a Brahmin or Kshatriya , in virtue or their superior learning or valour.

Much more of this information can be found in Sri Sri Ravi Shankar's book "Heritage of the dalits".

Shankaracharya and others , were the great caste-makers. They would sometimes get hordes of Baluchis and at once make them Kshatriyas, and also get hordes of fishermen and make them Brahmins forthwith.

It was with the advent of the foreign invasions in India, that the caste system became rigid, and migration of people to different castes were stopped.

Even then, enlightened masters from the lower castes such as Kabir, Ravi Das, Sri Narayana guru were revered by the upper castes as well.

When India gained independence due to the efforts of Hindus like Gandhi, perfect equality was thrust upon the masses of India , no matter to what caste one belonged to, thus reestablishing and continuing the ancient tradition of India.

Even the constitution of independent India , was created by a Dalit called B.R.Ambedkar.

It will take some time for the deadweight of tradition of the rigid caste system to be removed from India. But as enlightened Hinduism and Buddhism, as preached by Gandhi, Swami Vivekananda, Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, Sri Sri Ravi Shankar and others are reaching the masses, slowly these shackles are being dissolved .

[Guest guest]

Caste system was based on the role one played in society. It was not to be judged as low, high, medium. By the value system in society, everyone is alike and equally important to society. Just like the employees of today to their company within the fabric of their company values.

 

Krishna takes cognizance of this and tell in BG that it was he who made the caste system. What can be a better way to appeal to the different caste sections to not feel themselves as victims of the caste system, but to see how they contribute to the society and the world at large by their services. And live a life free of gathering karma.

 

Having said the above, it is true that the orthodox Hindu's who are yet to evolve spiritually and making too much of their rituals and social ranks in this material world, need to be challenged. The orthodox will continue claim and speak on behalf of god making ranks and differentiatedness. This needs to be challenged time and again in Indian society. The challenge should begin in family, from child to parent, or from a parent to an orthodox-child. That's exactly how the vedic learning have survived through the generations, unadultrated.

 

The great thing of indian society is that it yields to people challenging the orthodox. And re-surface the teachings of vedas. This is also required in other communities around the world, be it the lucky-charm obssessed budhism of today, or the theistic obssession of christianity or islam. I personally feel india is better off in relative terms even with the caste system.

 

May we never stop challenging any orthodoxy or fortune teller or anyone who creates differentiatedness. So much to have knowledge prevail as generations pass.

[niranjan]

 

In ancient times , one's caste was determined by one's temperament, talents and inclinations. Caste was not a barrier to the lower caste people, who rose to the level of the upper castes through their talents.

.

 

 

 

In the manu smriti , when it comes to stance of hereditary caste system, the verse below is believed to sanction support for vocational non-hereditary caste system.

 

"As the son of Shudra can attain the rank of a Brahmin, the son of Brahmin can attain rank of a shudra. Even so with him who is born of a Vaishya or a Kshatriya" (X: 65)

 

 

 

Paramahansa Yogananda

also opposed what he called to the un-Vedic caste system as we know it today. He taught that the caste system originated in a higher age, but became degraded through ignorance and self-interest. Yogananda said:

 

 

<DL><DD>"

These were (originally) symbolic designations of the stages of spiritual refinement. They were not intended as social categories. And they were not intended to be hereditary. Things changed as the

yugas

[cycles of time] descended toward mental darkness. People in the higher castes wanted to make sure their children were accepted as members of their own caste. Thus, ego-identification caused them to freeze the ancient classifications into what is called the ‘caste system.’ Such was not the original intention. In obvious fact, however, the offspring of a brahmin may be a sudra by nature. And a peasant, sometimes, is a real saint.”

" <DD>—from Conversations with Yogananda, Crystal Clarity Publishers, 2003.</DD></DL>

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

easily explained:

 

caste system started before vedas, before hinduism

 

caste system worked well back then, but only back then

 

later it became subject to human frailty, just as anything else is

 

it came under control of very selfish people and became perverted

 

caste system need to be destroyed and all its relation with hinduism needs to be destroyed

 

those are my 2 cents

[Guest guest]

 

YOU dont want to believe it but thats because people like you are living in a dreamland and continue to believe that lord buddha, lord krishna, sages of the upanishads, the 24 jain gurus, the sikh gurus and countless other people opposed the racist brahminical system and religion. the religion of KRISHNA and the BHAGAVAD GITA is not the religion of the brahmins, it was initially the system of the royal sages under jain rule. brahmins were causing havoc in those times like they always have and lord krishna sought to harmonize by teaching that varna is not brith based and anyone can achive the state of brahminhood.

 

 

This is what I've always thought. Krishna's religion is clearly not the religion of the brahmins. It is quite clear in both the Mahabharata and Ramayana that the religion taught by the incarnations of Vishnu believed varna was determined by gunas and action, not by hereditary. That's why Vyasa the greatest sage was born of a fisherwoman yet still accepted as a Rishi by all. The story of Eklavya shows the discrimination which some Ksatryias had against lower castes and how it was wrong and led to bad karma.

 

 

He also fought the wrath if brahminical god indra. krishnaism flourished under jain rule but later completely absorbed by brahmins.

 

 

This is also true. In the Vedas the Aryan god Indra is praised as the highest, but then again it is said Indra is a friend of the outcastes. So it's hard to say but one thing is that the Brahmins identified with the Vedic gods more that Krishna.

 

 

KRISHNA was a NON ARYAN hero and the racist nazi brahmins do not want to face the truth. Brahmins just want to absorb everyones religion so they can stay on top. Truth is, you can NEVER claim Lord Krishna! You can never claim Lord Buddha! Why? none of these sages and avatars even liked brahmins, who are the curse of the world.

 

 

I'm not sure. I always thought he was Aryan as he was cousins to the Pandavas who were also Aryan. His dark skin has nothing to do with whether he was Aryan or not.

 

 

 

- Having said the above, it is true that the orthodox Hindu's who are yet to evolve spiritually and making too much of their rituals and social ranks in this material world, need to be challenged. The orthodox will continue claim and speak on behalf of god making ranks and differentiatedness. This needs to be challenged time and again in Indian society.

 

 

Yes, they are making too much of the importance of their rituals in this day and age, while the Hindu community is becoming more philosophical and less ritualistic, thus eventually making the role of the Brahmin obsolete. Personal faith, reading of scripture and puja has taken place over calling out a Brahmin to do your rituals which though it still happens appears to be far less than before. Strictly speaking you don't need many Brahmins, just good quality Brahmins. Even many hereditary-Brahmins themselves are not living a Brahmin life, yet still claim to be Brahmins. The Brahmins are supposed to know the Vedas, yet none of them really do, only small portions of the Vedas that they need when doing rituals.

[niranjan]

Vedas, the proud possession of mankind, are the foundation of Hinduism. Vedas are all-embracing, and treat the entire humanity with the same respect and dignity. Vedas speak of nobility of entire humanity (krinvanto vishvam aryam), and do not sanction any caste system or birth-based caste system. Mantra, numbered 10-13-1 in Rig Veda, addresses the entire humanity as divine children (shrunvantu vishve amrutsya putraha). Innumerable mantras in Vedas emphasise oneness, universal brotherhood, harmony, happiness, affection, unity and commonality of entire humanity. A few illustrations are given here. Vide Mantra numbered 5-60-5 in Rig Veda, the divine poet declares, “All men are brothers; no one is big, no one is small. All are equal.” Mantra numbered 16.15 in Yajur Veda reiterates that all men are brothers; no one is superior or inferior. Mantra numbered 10-191-2 in Rig Veda calls upon humanity to be united to have a common speech and a common mind. Mantra numbered 3-30-1 in Atharva Veda enjoins upon all humans to be affectionate and to love one another as the cow loves her newly-born calf. Underlining unity and harmony still further, Mantra numbered 3-30-6 in Atharva Veda commands humankind to dine together, and be as firmly united as the spokes attached to the hub of a chariot wheel.

[Guest guest]

Thank you, niranjan, for sharing with us those beautiful verses from the Vedas. Clearly those who are truly following the heart and spirit of the Vedas, will NOT hold discrimination, whether it be racism, casteism, or sexism, in their hearts.

[ombakth]

http://www.kashmir-information.com/ConvertedKashmir/Chapter11.html

http://fosaac.tv/content/editorial16.htm

Amarnath Shrine is one of the oldest pilgrimage in the world-older than Jerusalem. Even after the Islamic conquest of northern India, this pilgrimage continued unabated due the enthusiast Hindu followers who have been visiting this place paying Jijiya tax to Muslim rulers during most of the Islamic period in India. Kashmiri Hindus were eliminated totally by 15th century initially by notorious Islamic preacher of Sayed clan followed by cruel and merciless conversion carried out during the rule of Sikandar and Ali Shah. Resettlement of Hindus in Kashmir valley started with Sultan Zainul who shaped much of the Kashmiri nationalism as we see it today. Under the auspiece of Shri Bhat, Kashmiri Pundits retained most of the important Hindu texts. Reforming Hinduism to a classless and castless society started with Shri Bhat as he clearly understood Hindusim will not survive before Islam unless it is reformed to a classless united society. After this brief period, Hinduism was again crashed in the valley by zealot Islamic rulers for almost two centuries till Akbar expanded his empire in Kashmir. Finally, Kashmir acceded to non-Muslim rulers when Ranjit Singh drove out barbaric Afgan rulers from Kashmir in 1818. During this time, a lot of tribal leaders in Kashmir who were frustrated with cruelty of alien Muslim rulers wanted to be folded back in Hinduism. However, as always the case with castist Hindus, pundits refused to assimilate them into Hinduism. And thus Pundits committed largest blunder in the Hindu history of Kashmir. As a result, chance of revivalism of Hinduism in Kashmir obliterated for ever and long history of communal hatred by Muslims against Hindus in Kashmir continued which till today is clearly visible through opposition against a small estate for Shrine

 

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learn from this mistakes. If you want to safeguard then Unite Hindus. Don't create the blunder as created by few Kashmiri Pundits. This is an appeal for all Brahmins in India to allow Scheduled caste and Scheduled tribe people to get equal status in Hinduism.

This is the warning to those Bharmins who still divide hinduism on the bases of caste if they don't stop such practices then they will be held guilty of the destruction of Hinduism.

When the Tirupati Brahmins did Dalit Govindam everyone was happy but again they came back to their castist mentality and disowned the statue of Lord Venkateshwara which Hindus prayed for so many centuries just because Dalit touched that Statue. Don't forget that Dalits are also Hindus.

The Sin that Tirupati Brahmins created by disowning the Lord Venkateshwara statue they insulted both Lord Venkateshwara and Dalits will not be forgiven. Lord Venkateshwara will teach them a lesson.

Now to come out of the Sin these Tirupati Brahmins will have to again restore that same Lord Venkateshwara which was used as Dalit Govindam statue in the Tirupati Temple and allow even Dalits to become priest and allow them to live with them. Otherwise with time passing by even Brahmins children will be treated like Dalits and they will be deprived from all basic rights.

It is the request to all Dalits that not to leave hinduism just because of such foolish people. Hinduism is the greatest religion. Why they want to leave their religion just because of some people are depriving their rights.

Brahmin treat dalits as low caste untouchable and British used to treat even Brahmin as low caste untouchable for them all Indians were of low caste. At that how a Brahmin used to feel when an Englishman used to discriminate a Brahmin, now thing what will be the sentiments of a Dalit when he is treated in the same. When Brahmins and Dalits were divided British were able to rule us but when both Brahmins and Dalits united only then they were able to kick out Britishers. In the same way if entire Hinduism is united then it will be impossible for Islam and Christianity to defeat it.