GBC Never Authorized to Terminate Ritvik System

[Guruvani]

 

Most people are not on the level of Jagannatha Das babaji, so let's not impersonate. We need living guru. If you're happy with ritvik, that's fine. You won't get far though. To each, his own.

 

Duh, but a bona fide ritvik IS a living guru who is authorized to accept disciples on behalf of the acharya.

 

What do you clowns think a ritvik is?

Srila Prabhupada picked some of most advanced disciples to be ritviks.

The ritviks are as good as any ISKCON guru, so how can you say that a ritvik is not a guru.

 

Of course a ritvik is a guru.

Most usually they function as siksha gurus.

The ISKKON ritviks were functionng siksha gurus before they were appointed as ritviks.

It was their status as siksha gurus and preachers that got them appointed as ritviks.

So, the idea that the ritvik system is devoid of a living guru is just more false propaganda.

The living siksha guru gives diksha on behalf of the acharya, because the books and the teachings of the acharya are the full course of study even for the ritviks.

[Guest guest]

 

Of course a ritvik is a guru.

 

guru = rtvik

ACBSP = guru

ACBSP = rtivik (for BSST)

BSST = rtvik (for BVT) THEREFORE Rtvik guru paramapara.

[Guruvani]

 

Sometimes there are interruptions and sometimes a generation only appears skipped because the experts are only noting the "important personages".

and in doing so they are rejecting the concept of teaching strictly the so-called physical succession that even followers of Sridhar Maharaja try to wrongly impose upon the next generation of devotees.

 

when the succession that the Saraswata acharyas give has breaks in the physical succession aspect, then they are either being reckless or they don't put any importance on the physical succession rule that so many are trying to preach as indespensible.

 

guru and disciple are linked by thought, not by physical contact.

[Guruvani]

 

guru = rtvik

ACBSP = guru

ACBSP = rtivik (for BSST)

BSST = rtvik (for BVT) THEREFORE Rtvik guru paramapara.

 

wrong.

BSST never appointed any ritviks.

BVT never appointed any ritviks.

 

Srila Prabhupada ACBSP appointed ritviks.

There is a difference.

So, your imaginary concoction is a false premise.

[Guest guest]

This is simply something that you've concocted. Please provide Sastric verses to prove your point.

 

 

Duh, but a bona fide ritvik IS a living guru who is authorized to accept disciples on behalf of the acharya.

 

What do you clowns think a ritvik is?

Srila Prabhupada picked some of most advanced disciples to be ritviks.

The ritviks are as good as any ISKCON guru, so how can you say that a ritvik is not a guru.

 

Of course a ritvik is a guru.

Most usually they function as siksha gurus.

The ISKKON ritviks were functionng siksha gurus before they were appointed as ritviks.

It was their status as siksha gurus and preachers that got them appointed as ritviks.

So, the idea that the ritvik system is devoid of a living guru is just more false propaganda.

The living siksha guru gives diksha on behalf of the acharya, because the books and the teachings of the acharya are the full course of study even for the ritviks.

[Guruvani]

 

This is simply something that you've concocted. Please provide Sastric verses to prove your point.

 

Who do you think Srila Prabhupada appointed as ritviks?

Do you think he hired karmis to be his ritviks?

Did he engage bowery bums to be his ritviks?

Did he use lawyers to be his ritviks?

Did he enlist Mayavadi philosphers to be his ritviks?

 

Shastra says that anyone who gives relevant instructions on Krishna consciousness is a siksha guru.

The ritviks were some of the leading siksha gurus in ISKCON and that is why Srila Prabhupada appointed them as ritviks.

 

A ritvik IS a living guru. (siksha guru)

Now, all the false allegations against the ritvik system are hereby smashed, because the ritvik system DOES have living gurus in the system.

[Guest guest]

Churning out the same thing over and over won't make it right. Where is the Sastric evidence that every guru is simply a ritvik of some Acarya as you claim? It is nowhere stated in Sastra, therefore your claim is a concoction.

 

 

Who do you think Srila Prabhupada appointed as ritviks?

Do you think he hired karmis to be his ritviks?

Did he engage bowery bums to be his ritviks?

Did he use lawyers to be his ritviks?

Did he enlist Mayavadi philosphers to be his ritviks?

 

Shastra says that anyone who gives relevant instructions on Krishna consciousness is a siksha guru.

The ritviks were some of the leading siksha gurus in ISKCON and that is why Srila Prabhupada appointed them as ritviks.

 

A ritvik IS a living guru. (siksha guru)

Now, all the false allegations against the ritvik system are hereby smashed, because the ritvik system DOES have living gurus in the system.

[suchandra]

 

Churning out the same thing over and over won't make it right. Where is the Sastric evidence that every guru is simply a ritvik of some Acarya as you claim? It is nowhere stated in Sastra, therefore your claim is a concoction.

Actually if you trace it back - Krishna is the original ritvik. He always says things like, do it, but only do it for Me, fight, but only fight for Me, become successful but offer your success to Me - I am the ability in man.

If a devotee does something the devotee always says, by Krishnas mercy I could do it, Krishna directed me.

So, in sum this is all ritvik. A non-ritvik says, I'm the doer, I did it, I'm great etc.

[Guest guest]

I fail to understand how your post is related to the ritviks insistence that nobody but Srila Prabhupada can give diksa. Perhaps I missed something?

 

 

Actually if you trace it back - Krishna is the original ritvik. He always says things like, do it, but only do it for Me, fight, but only fight for Me, become successful but offer your success to Me - I am the ability in man.

If a devotee does something the devotee always says, by Krishnas mercy I could do it, Krishna directed me.

So, in sum this is all ritvik. A non-ritvik says, I'm the doer, I did it, I'm great etc.

[gHari]

 

Srila Prabhupada explained the use of the word 'ritvik' in blue:

 

PrabhupAda: Yes. I shall recommend some of you. After this is settled up, I shall recommend some of you to act as officiating AcAryas.

 

TamAla KRSNa: Is that called Rtvik-AcArya?

 

PrabhupAda: Rtvik, yes.

 

SatsvarUpa: Then what is the relationship of that person who gives the initiation and the...

 

PrabhupAda: He's guru. He's guru.

 

SatsvarUpa: But he does it on your behalf.

 

PrabhupAda: Yes.

That is formality. Because

in my presence

one should not become guru

, so on my behalf, on my order... AmAra AjJAya guru haJA [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. Be actually guru, but by my order.

 

SatsvarUpa: So they may also be considered your disciples.

 

PrabhupAda: Yes, they are disciples. Why consider? Who?

 

TamAla KRSNa: No, he's asking that these Rtvik-AcAryas, they're officiating, giving dIkSA. Their... The people who they give dIkSA to, whose disciple are they?

 

PrabhupAda: They're his disciple.

 

TamAla KRSNa: They're his disciple.

 

PrabhupAda: Who is initiating. He is

granddisciple.

 

SatsvarUpa: Yes.

 

TamAla KRSNa: That's clear.

 

SatsvarUpa: Then we have a question concer...

 

PrabhupAda: When I order, "You become guru," he becomes regular guru. That's all. He becomes

disciple of my disciple

. That's it.

 

[Beggar]

 

 

Of course a ritvik is a guru..

 

 

So, the idea that the ritvik system is devoid of a living guru is just more false propaganda.

 

 

 

Actually if you trace it back - Krishna is the original ritvik... So, in sum this is all ritvik. A non-ritvik says, I'm the doer, I did it, I'm great etc.

 

Are you serious? You're a parody of yourself.

 

 

 

Why Name Rtviks and Not Regular Acaryas?

 

That's why we find the words guru and acarya used thousands of times in Prabhupada's books and never the word "rtvik", not even once. But we do find the concept of "monitor guru" in "Easy Journey to Other Planets". It seems a better wording and Prabhupada and his guru both used it.

[suchandra]

 

Are you serious? You're a parody of yourself.

 

 

 

 

That's why we find the words guru and acarya used thousands of times in Prabhupada's books and never the word "rtvik", not even once. But we do find the concept of "monitor guru" in "Easy Journey to Other Planets". It seems a better wording and Prabhupada and his guru both used it.

 

Why make it complicated, just do as Prabhupada set up his ISKCON movement. He said dont change anything - everything works fine, he never told anyone to sit as new acarya on the vysasana and initiate his own disciples. He just didnt say that. Before we start to speculate how to run a successful initiation system within ISKCON we should just continue what Prabhupada ordered and you will see it works! Prabhupada is not dead and there are enough high positions in a spiritual institution besides diksa-guru to gratify peoples urge to be something better. The more we put Prabhupada into the center the more we will realize that a Vaishnava never dies.

[Guruvani]

 

Are you serious? You're a parody of yourself.

 

 

 

 

That's why we find the words guru and acarya used thousands of times in Prabhupada's books and never the word "rtvik", not even once. But we do find the concept of "monitor guru" in "Easy Journey to Other Planets". It seems a better wording and Prabhupada and his guru both used it.

That's a false statement.

 

 

Ritviks of Srimad Bhagavatam

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Here is a presentation of ritvik references in Srimad Bhagavatam, for the benefit of all ISKCON devotees. The actual references to ritviks have been inserted where the standard English translation is found in the books of Srila Prabhupada.

 

 

 

 

 

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Srimad Bhagavatam 4.5.7.

 

 

 

 

“At that time, all the persons assembled in the sacrificial arena — the ritviks (athartvijo

yajamānaḥ sadasyāḥ), the chief of the sacrificial performance, and the brāhmaṇas and their wives — wondered where the darkness was coming from. Later they could understand that it was a dust storm, and all of them were full of anxiety.”

 

 

 

 

 

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Srimad Bhagavatam 4.5.18

 

“There was a continuous shower of stones, and all the ritviks (sarva evartvijo dṛṣṭvā) and other members assembled at the sacrifice were put into immense misery. For fear of their lives, they dispersed in different directions.”

 

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Srimad Bhagavatam 4.7.27

“The ritviks addressed the Lord (ritvija ucuh), saying: O Lord, transcendental to material contamination, by the curse offered by Lord Śiva's men we have become attached to fruitive activities, and thus we are now fallen and therefore do not know anything about You. On the contrary, we are now involved in the injunctions of the three departments of the Vedic knowledge under the plea of executing rituals in the name of yajña. We know that You have made arrangements for distributing the respective shares of the demigods.”

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Srimad Bhagavatam 4.7.45

“The brāhmaṇas said: Dear Lord, You are sacrifice personified. You are the offering of clarified butter, You are the fire, You are the chanting of Vedic hymns by which the sacrifice is conducted, You are the fuel, You are the flame, You are the kuśa grass, and You are the sacrificial pots. You are the ritviks (tvaḿ sadasyartvijo) who perform the yajña, You are the demigods headed by Indra, and You are the sacrificial animal. Everything that is sacrificed is You or Your energy.”

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Srimad Bhagavatam 4.13.26

“The ritviks (yajamānam athartvijah) engaged in the sacrifice then informed King Ańga: O King, we are properly offering the clarified butter in the sacrifice, but despite all our efforts the demigods do not accept it.”

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Srimad Bhagavatam 4.19.27

“When the ritivks (tam ṛtvijah) and all the others saw Mahārāja Pṛthu very angry and prepared to kill Indra, they requested him: O great soul, do not kill him, for only sacrificial animals can be killed in a sacrifice. Such are the directions given by śāstra.”

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Srimad Bhagavatam 4.19.29

“My dear Vidura, after giving the King this advice, the ritviks (vidurāsyartvijo ruṣā) who had been engaged in performing the sacrifice called for Indra, the King of heaven, in a mood of great anger. When they were just ready to put the oblation in the fire, Lord Brahmā appeared on the scene and forbade them to start the sacrifice.”

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Srimad Bhagavatam 5.3.4-5

“The ritviks (ṛtvija ūcuh) began to offer prayers to the Lord, saying: O most worshipable one, we are simply Your servants. Although You are full in Yourself, please, out of Your causeless mercy, accept a little service from us, Your eternal servants. We are not actually aware of Your transcendental form, but we can simply offer our respectful obeisances again and again, as instructed by the Vedic literatures and authorized ācāryas. Materialistic living entities are very much attracted to the modes of material nature, and therefore they are never perfect, but You are above the jurisdiction of all material conceptions. Your name, form and qualities are all transcendental and beyond the conception of experimental knowledge. Indeed, who can conceive of You? In the material world we can perceive only material names and qualities. We have no other power than to offer our respectful obeisances and prayers unto You, the transcendental person. The chanting of Your auspicious transcendental qualities will wipe out the sins of all mankind. That is the most auspicious activity for us, and we can thus partially understand Your supernatural position.”

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Srimad Bhagavatam 8.16.53

“One should satisfy the spiritual master [ācārya], who is very learned in Vedic literature, and should satisfy his ritviks (toṣayed ṛtvijaś caiva) [known as hotā, udgātā, adhvaryu and brahma]. One should please them by offering them clothing, ornaments and cows. This is the ceremony called viṣṇu-ārādhana, or worship of Lord Viṣṇu.”

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Srimad Bhagavatam 8.18.21“While engaged in performing the sacrifice in the field known as Bhṛgukaccha, on the northern bank of the Narmadā River, the brahminical ritviks (ya ṛtvijas te bhṛgukaccha-saḿjñake), the descendants of Bhṛgu, saw Vāmanadeva to be like the sun rising nearby.”

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Srimad Bhagavatam 8.18.22

“O King, because of Vāmanadeva's bright effulgence, the ritviks (te ṛtvijo yajamānaḥ sadasyā), along with Bali Mahārāja and all the members of the assembly, were robbed of their splendor. Thus they began to ask one another whether the sun-god himself, Sanat-kumāra or the fire-god had personally come to see the sacrificial ceremony.”

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Srimad Bhagavatam 9.4.23

“In the sacrifice arranged by Mahārāja Ambarīṣa, the members of the assembly and the ritviks (sadasyā ṛtvijo janāḥ) [especially hotā, udgātā, brahmā and adhvaryu] were gorgeously dressed, and they all looked exactly like demigods. They eagerly saw to the proper performance of the yajña.”

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Srimad Bhagavatam 9.6.35-36

“The Supreme Personality of Godhead is not different from the auspicious aspects of great sacrifices, such as the ingredients of the sacrifice, the chanting of Vedic hymns, the regulative principles, the performer, the ritviks (yajamānas tathartvijaḥ), the result of the sacrifice, the arena of sacrifice, and the time of sacrifice. Knowing the principles of self-realization, Māndhātā worshiped that transcendentally situated Supreme Soul, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Lord Viṣṇu, who comprises all the demigods. He also gave immense charity to the brāhmaṇas, and thus he performed yajña to worship the Lord.”

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Srimad Bhagavatam 10.23.10-11

“Although the ingredients of sacrificial performance — the place, time, particular paraphernalia, mantras, rituals, ritviks (,mantra-tantrartvijo 'gnayah) fires, demigods, performer, offering and the as yet unseen beneficial results — are all simply aspects of His opulences, the brāhmaṇas saw Lord Kṛṣṇa as an ordinary human because of their perverted intelligence. They failed to recognize that He is the Supreme Absolute Truth, the directly manifest Personality of Godhead, whom the material senses cannot ordinarily perceive. Thus bewildered by their false identification with the mortal body, they did not show Him proper respect.”

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Srimad Bhagavatam 10.23.48-49

“All the aspects of sacrifice — the auspicious place and time, the various items of paraphernalia, the Vedic hymns, the prescribed rituals, the ritviks (mantra-tantrartvijo 'gnayaḥ) and sacrificial fires, the demigods, the patron of the sacrifice, the sacrificial offering and the pious results obtained — all are simply manifestations of His opulences. Yet even though we had heard that the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Viṣṇu, the Lord of all mystic controllers, had taken birth in the Yadu dynasty, we were so foolish that we could not recognize Śrī Kṛṣṇa to be none other than Him.”

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Srimad Bhagavatam 10.74.6

“Śukadeva Gosvāmī said: Having said this, King Yudhiṣṭhira waited until the proper time for the sacrifice was at hand. Then with Lord Kṛṣṇa's permission he selected suitable ritviks (vavre yuktān sa ṛtvijaḥ), all expert authorities on the Vedas, to execute the sacrifice.”

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Srimad Bhagavatam 10.75.19

“The ritviks (caritvā te tam ṛtvijaḥ) led the King through the execution of the final rituals of patnī-saḿyāja and avabhṛthya. Then they had him and Queen Draupadī sip water for purification and bathe in the Ganges.”

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Srimad Bhagavatam 10.75.25-26

“Then the highly cultured ritviks (athartvijo mahā-śīlāh), the great Vedic authorities who had served as sacrificial witnesses, the specially invited kings, the brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, vaiśyas, śūdras, demigods, sages, forefathers and mystic spirits, and the chief planetary rulers and their followers — all of them, having been worshiped by King Yudhiṣṭhira, took his permission and departed, O King, each for his own abode.”

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Srimad Bhagavatam 10.84.42

“Śukadeva Gosvāmī said: After hearing these statements of the sages, generous Vasudeva bowed his head to the ground and, praising them, requested them to become his ritviks (tān ṛṣīn ṛtvijo vavre).

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Srimad Bhagavatam 10.84.47

“After Vasudeva's eyes had been decorated with black cosmetic and his body smeared with fresh butter, the ritviks (aktam abhyaktam ṛtvijaḥ) initiated him according to scriptural rules by sprinkling him and his eighteen wives with sacred water. Encircled by his wives, he resembled the regal moon encircled by stars.”

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Srimad Bhagavatam 10.84.49

“My dear Mahārāja Parīkṣit, Vasudeva's ritviks (tasyartvijo mahā-rāja) and the officiating members of the assembly, dressed in silk dhotīs and jeweled ornaments, looked so effulgent that they seemed to be standing in the sacrificial arena of Indra, the killer of Vṛtra.”

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Srimad Bhagavatam 12.6.20

“The intelligent King Janamejaya, hearing these words, replied to the ritviks (prāhartvija udāra-dhīḥ): Then, my dear brāhmaṇas, why not make Takṣaka fall into the fire, along with his protector, Indra?”

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[Guruvani]

I would like to emphasize that this verse in particular makes reference to the idea of an acharya having ritviks and the idea of ritviks performing sacrifices on behalf of the acharya.

 

 

Srimad Bhagavatam 8.16.53

“One should satisfy the spiritual master [ācārya], who is very learned in Vedic literature, and should satisfy his ritviks (toṣayed ṛtvijaś caiva) [known as hotā, udgātā, adhvaryu and brahma]. One should please them by offering them clothing, ornaments and cows. This is the ceremony called viṣṇu-ārādhana, or worship of Lord Viṣṇu.”

[Guest guest]

Why do you present a quote that is not accurate. Why do you change the translation to fit your own agenda.

 

If you want to use this as your absolute criteria for rtvik, you better start worshipping the eleven appointed rtvik priests. There is no way around this.

[Guest guest]

TRANSLATION

 

One should satisfy the spiritual master [ācārya], who is very learned in Vedic literature, and should satisfy his assistant priests [known as hotā, udgātā, adhvaryu and brahma]. One should please them by offering them clothing, ornaments and cows. This is the ceremony called viṣṇu-ārādhana, or worship of Lord Viṣṇu.

 

Mahak: Also, read this verse in context, a particular functionary ritual is being described.

[Guruvani]

 

TRANSLATION

 

One should satisfy the spiritual master [ācārya], who is very learned in Vedic literature, and should satisfy his assistant priests [known as hotā, udgātā, adhvaryu and brahma]. One should please them by offering them clothing, ornaments and cows. This is the ceremony called viṣṇu-ārādhana, or worship of Lord Viṣṇu.

 

Mahak: Also, read this verse in context, a particular functionary ritual is being described.

 

How convenient that you choose to ignore the fact that in the Sanskrit portion the term ritvik (rtvijas) is present.

 

The original Sanskrit refers to them as ritviks.

[Beggar]

 

That's a false statement.

Okay so there are quotes about "rtviks" in the Bhagavatam. But the ones you showed aren't really on point. Obviously there's much more about the different kinds of gurus like diksha and siksha. I agree the so-called diksha gurus in ISKCON have mostly done a lot of damage. I was just suggesting the word "rtvik" itself has really become a vegetarian bone of contention. Why not just say the persons performing the diksha ceremony are "monitor gurus". Does anyone really think they are on the same platform as Prabhupada, anyway? Besides ninety percent of ISKCON is already "soft" rtvik. Soft rtvik means that they know that their "gurus" are probably going to fall or already fallen, so they must take shelter of Srila Prabhupada. Even certain sane western members of different GMs will now admit at least privately that their newer western devotees don't really know much about Prabhupada nor are they reading his books. The issue doesn't just have to be about putting Prabhupada in the spot light just in ISKCON but everywhere. Of course Prabhupada always wanted Krsna in the center and he did the best job of it. The proof being that he spread Krsna Consciousness all over the world.

[Guest guest]

Srila Prabhupada several times, no just once, said that his disciples should go on to become Gurus and initiate disciples. Such direct quotes have been posted here many times. I presume if you just don't want to accept it, htere's no point trying to convince you.

 

Also, it's simply ritvik propaganda that Srila Prabhupada isn't at the center. Every ISKCON temple I've been to worships Srila Prabhupada. So please quit saying he should be made the center. He already is.

 

 

he never told anyone to sit as new acarya on the vysasana and initiate his own disciples. He just didnt say that.

[Guest guest]

No, it is not convenient. Why not present shastra "as it is". You did not do this, you changed it all around, to suit your own agenda. Sure, you did a data search of the word "rtvik", and it came to the out-of-context quote you used. Then, because the word "rtvik" does not appear in Srila Prabhupadas translation, you make a dubious decision to ALTER Srila Prabhupadas translation to suit your agenda.

 

The quote you mis-used is very nice, however. It is descriptive of how one should respect and give honor to those whom the spiritual master entrusts with carrying out his mission. What the chapter DOES NOT AT ALL DEAL WITH is initiations, a guru system, or anything remotely related with what you are trying to do here.

 

I have no quarrel with anyone, brother. I support some who are acting as officiating acaryas, those who are actively carreying out Srila Prabhupada missionary work. But I dont join up, nor do I pledge allegiance to a bunch I refuse to associate with (GBC) for over thirty years. What I reject is speculators, revisionists, and all those who do everything they can to avoid Srila Prabhupadas plea that we all find a way to cooperate. No one cooperated while he was manifest, so why think that cooperation is gonna happen.

 

Rtviks are at mundane war with GBC, and it has nothing to do with spiritual life. This war has taken a serious toll, makes otherwise kindhearted vaisnavas into spewers of fault at every chance. The very best news a rtvik can have is that someone has fallen down or some sanyassi has committed a crime. This is so opposite of vaisnava character, that I vehemently reject anyone who engages in such things. They spew poison, and this has effect, it has affected me in the past as well.

 

An actual vaisnava, if he hears of a peer's falldown, becomes very sad, and prays very hard for the recovery of that devotee. If one has a spiritual master (one more advanced than himself) who has fallen on hard times, even gone overboard into the ocean of nescience, he does not reject such a person, he returns the favor by becoming the counsel of such a person.

 

This is vaisnava character, not all this horrendous negative preaching carried out by the PADA-IRM types, whose information is no different than the globe or enquirer tabloid drivel.

 

Haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

[theist]

Yeah! Tell it like it is Mahak.

[Guest guest]

Superb post Mahak prabhu!

 

Sadly, these misguided ritviks are bringing more disrepute to the movement. Poilce were called in at Bhativedanta Manor today. Please see the thread in 'world review'-

 

indiadivine.org/audarya/world-review/437810-police-temple-tension-london.html

 

 

No, it is not convenient. Why not present shastra "as it is". You did not do this, you changed it all around, to suit your own agenda. Sure, you did a data search of the word "rtvik", and it came to the out-of-context quote you used. Then, because the word "rtvik" does not appear in Srila Prabhupadas translation, you make a dubious decision to ALTER Srila Prabhupadas translation to suit your agenda.

 

The quote you mis-used is very nice, however. It is descriptive of how one should respect and give honor to those whom the spiritual master entrusts with carrying out his mission. What the chapter DOES NOT AT ALL DEAL WITH is initiations, a guru system, or anything remotely related with what you are trying to do here.

 

I have no quarrel with anyone, brother. I support some who are acting as officiating acaryas, those who are actively carreying out Srila Prabhupada missionary work. But I dont join up, nor do I pledge allegiance to a bunch I refuse to associate with (GBC) for over thirty years. What I reject is speculators, revisionists, and all those who do everything they can to avoid Srila Prabhupadas plea that we all find a way to cooperate. No one cooperated while he was manifest, so why think that cooperation is gonna happen.

 

Rtviks are at mundane war with GBC, and it has nothing to do with spiritual life. This war has taken a serious toll, makes otherwise kindhearted vaisnavas into spewers of fault at every chance. The very best news a rtvik can have is that someone has fallen down or some sanyassi has committed a crime. This is so opposite of vaisnava character, that I vehemently reject anyone who engages in such things. They spew poison, and this has effect, it has affected me in the past as well.

 

An actual vaisnava, if he hears of a peer's falldown, becomes very sad, and prays very hard for the recovery of that devotee. If one has a spiritual master (one more advanced than himself) who has fallen on hard times, even gone overboard into the ocean of nescience, he does not reject such a person, he returns the favor by becoming the counsel of such a person.

 

This is vaisnava character, not all this horrendous negative preaching carried out by the PADA-IRM types, whose information is no different than the globe or enquirer tabloid drivel.

 

Haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

[Guruvani]

After the disappearance of Srila Saraswati Goswami, some leading secretaries decided without authority that unfit persons should become acharyas and initiate their own disciples in the Gaudiya Math.

 

How did Srila Prabhupada feel about that?...................

 

 

2) Your so-called disciple, the jackal named Ananta Vasudeva,

disobeyed your final instructions to keep the mission united,

and thereby created a scandalous fiasco.

The result of this philosophical deviation is evident to this day

as imitative sahajiyas are being worshiped as gurus in your

temples.

3) Is there a single temple to be found

where your instructions are still being followed?

As it is said: "punar musiko bhava"-

Everyone has "again become a mouse."

4) The lion's food has been stolen away

by the deceptive tricks of the jackal

Now caught in Maya's mighty clutches

everyone is reduced to wailing and weeping.

The Lions's food had been carried off by the Jackal.

Those who were meant to be disciples of Srila Saraswati Thakur were being initiated in the Gaudiya Math as disciples of unathorized "sahajiya' PRETENDERS.

 

"Scandalous fiasco"?

Sounds real familiar doesn't it?

[Guruvani]

Srila Prabhupada:

 

3) Those disciples who were irresolute in performing

devotional service according to your instructions

have now divided your mission in many factions.

It appears that the tigress of ambition

for material names and fame

has appeared and personally provoked this upheaval.

4) The essential purport of your message

obviously did not enter their ears.

 

Many gurus means many factions.

ISKCON as well has been divided into many factions of many different gurus.

 

The essential purport of the instructions of Srila Prabhupada "did not enter their ears".

[Guest guest]

LOL, I must commend you for making new theories almost everyday.

 

So now, we shouldn't have many gurus because it will create factions?! Wonder why Mahaprabhu didn't think of that when he said under my order, become guru!

 

 

Srila Prabhupada:

 

Many gurus means many factions.

ISKCON as well has been divided into many factions of many different gurus.

 

The essential purport of the instructions of Srila Prabhupada "did not enter their ears".