GBC Never Authorized to Terminate Ritvik System

[Guest guest]

 

 

Where are the real ascetics?

 

The real ascetics are working two jobs, raising their kids, distributing books to their friends and neighbors and co-workers and around the community, and donating to keep the local temple solvent.

 

They are giving up their personal sense gratification, devoting their lives to the service of others. They neither seek nor receive prestige.

 

They don't have big travel budgets, or admirers who give them Rolexes and fancy silks, or exotic specially-prepared health-food diets. You probably don't even know their names. But THEY are the pure devotees, quietly holding Krishna Consciousness in the West together, even though the men in saffron often deride them as low-class sense enjoyers.

 

If you tried to approach one of them for diksa, they would probably say "no" -- not feeling themselves qualified, and not likely to win ecclesiastical approval from an organization that rewards a certain "in" club of old cronies. But they are gurus, and all who take their siksa are fortunate indeed.

[muralidhar_das]

KB why can't you be a bit more consistent. One minute you are saying none of the disciples of Saraswati Thakura were doing the right thing besides Srila Prabhupada because only Prabhupada went out and preached to the masses. The next thing, you are saying that there should be more bhajananandis. The bhajananandi's get abused for not being "preahers", and then you start saying that there should be more of them. Agggghhhhh... you can be so annoying sometimes!

[Guruvani]

 

KB why can't you be a bit more consistent. One minute you are saying none of the disciples of Saraswati Thakura were doing the right thing besides Srila Prabhupada because only Prabhupada went out and preached to the masses. The next thing, you are saying that there should be more bhajananandis. The bhajananandi's get abused for not being "preahers", and then you start saying that there should be more of them. Agggghhhhh... you can be so annoying sometimes!

 

Yes, I know what you mean.

 

But, I have a habit of playing the anti-party whenever I see Srila Prabhupada getting slighted.

 

I have plenty of gripes with ISKCON gurus and the GBC.

 

There are things I admire about other-than-ISKCON camps, especially I really appreciated Sridhar Maharaja.

 

But, whenever I hear the least criticism of Srila Prabhupada I fly off the handle. I don't know why.

Certainly not because I am any kind of model disciple or even a disciple at all.

 

It's just that without Srila Prabhupada I doubt seriously that any of the Godbrothers would have accomplished what Srila Prabhupada did.

 

Srila Prabhupada made the sacrifice to bring Krishna consciousness to the miserably fallen souls of the western world and I can't tolerate even the slightest hint of criticism that he did this wrong or he did that wrong...yada..yada..yada.

 

I could appreciate you other camps a lot more if you didn't find it necessary to fault Srila Prabhupada in order to magnify the greatness of your gurus.

 

It's not that I am defending my initiation or my status as a devotee.

I don't really give a damn about that.

 

I don't really know why, but when I hear somebody accuse Srila Prabhupada of bad judgement or offending his Godbrothers I just go off.

 

I can't stand to hear some ingrate talking shit about Srila Prabhupada.

 

If it was real life face to face I would probably start swinging lefts, rights, jabs and body slams.

 

I know others feel the same way about their gurus, but I think Srila Prabhupada should get special recognition for actually bringing Krishna consciousness to the western world and that there should never be any criticism of him for the measures he took in trying to accomplish that mission.

 

If these followers of the other disciples of Srila Saraswati Thakur would give Srila Prabhupada the honor he has earned, I would never feel the need to utter any sort of harsh statements.

 

Why?

I don't know.

I am nothing close to a disciple of Srila Prabhupada.

 

I just can't stand to see it when he doesn't get the respect and the honor he deserves.

 

Why?

I don't know.

I am not even a Hare Krishna devotee as far as I am concerned.

 

It's a mystery to me.

[theist]

 

You cant turn back the wheel of time and lets say take away women's right to vote. Unless you want to be like Taliban. Many Iskcon devotees are indeed no better than Talibanis.

Oh this really is too much. (deleted this sentence for the sake of those with weak consitutions). Try to think before you speak Lowborn.

[muralidhar_das]

 

It's just that without Srila Prabhupada I doubt seriously that any of the Godbrothers would have accomplished what Srila Prabhupada did.

 

Srila Prabhupada made the sacrifice to bring Krishna consciousness to the miserably fallen souls of the western world and I can't tolerate even the slightest hint of criticism that he did this wrong or he did that wrong...yada..yada..yada.

Nobody I know thinks anyone else among his Godbrothers could have achieved the wonderful things Prabhupada achieve. He was SUPER special

 

Gurudev says that and Guru Maharaj said it too. Yajabara Maharaj was the one who said first of all that Prabhupada is a "saktyavesha avatara". Lots of others praised him to the max. What more can I say?

 

Here is a picture taken at Mayapura. Notice that Guru Maharaj has lots of bowls of prashad. He wanted to taste every preparation offered that day to the Deities served by Prabhupada's disciples.

 

 

the person on the bottom right, next to Prabhupada, with his back to the camera, is Srila Govinda Maharaj

 

It looks like Damodara Maharaj and Satish Prabhu (Nayanananda das Babaji) sitting beside Guru Maharaj, but I'm not really sure.

[Guest guest]

To start with the very essence of all the instructions given by Mahaprabhu in His siksastakam is to offer honor or respect to all, and similarly never to expect any respect in return. This is the properly adjusted mood or nature of a proper sincere vaisnava, if we are to follow the advice and directives of our Lord and masters.

All the detail of all the other issues is really useless if we don't get this fundamental understanding.

I mean what did we come to this line for? To just criticize and nitpick who's doing or not doing what, that's just a waste of precious human life and valuable time that so many non-devotees preoccupy themselves with.

By the grace of Krsna we've all been given a golden opportunity to make some valuable progress on our journey back to God. First via the medium of Srila Swami Prabhupad who we should all be eternally indebted too.Then as a backup wave of more mercy many of us received and appreciated another installment of real Krsna Consciousness through the pure teachings and example of Srila Sridhara Maharaj, that nourished, revitalized and adjusted many neophyte misconceptions we all had as we were developing through our infancy.

Now we can see there are many more waves in the vast ocean of KC that are flowing in all directions. What is dynamic and invigorating for one may be less helpful for another. But nevertheless Mahaprabhu's waves are moving for the benefit of all the fallen souls to uplift various individuals and the whole of humanity at large.

 

Some will play a minor role some may help thousands even millions to get an introduction to the Holy Names of Krsna. As devotees or at least aspirants we should be happy to see any effort being made in the service of the Vaisnavas wishes, to give Krsna and Mahaprabhu to the environment.

All the information and some very dedicated and surrendered souls are here, available for any sincere newcomers to navigate through this treacherous world of misconception, if they want it. to one who diligently practices and hungers for the absolute Truth He will give Himself accordingly. Mahaprabhu isn't so cruel as to create a movement that is only available to a particular time, acharya, set of exclusive disciples or mission. Rather He is there for all souls for all time, forever refreshing his ever-fresh golden gift to all, with endless sacrifice, forbearance and Divine love for the jivas plight..

If only we could truly realize how compassionate that big golden heart of His is, that He is trying to establish a temple in every heart, where none of us have to suffer the doubts of misconception.

[Guest guest]

 

Oh this really is too much. (deleted this sentence for the sake of those with weak consitutions). Try to think before you speak Lowborn.

 

Over the years I have met quite a few Iskcon devotees just as ignorant and fanatical as the Talibanis - in both social and political sense. The social examples are too numerous to mention - all basically denigrating women to a subhuman level. One political example for you: ISKCON GBC for Canada - Harivilasa dasa said in a local GBC meeting that it was great that under Bush's direction, the Americans 'bombed the hell' out of Afghanistan, because now we can go preach to them without interference from the fanatical Muslims.

[Guest guest]

 

Why is it a dismal failure?

ISKCON is still accomplishing more than all these Gaudiya Matha splinter groups combined.

Failure?

 

 

Iskcon is a failure because more than 90% of its members LEAVE in disgust.

 

a church which loses more then 90% of it's members is a DISMAL failure.

 

other failures include the loss of properties, the loss of public trust, total failure of the primary educational system (gurukulas), failure to prevent widespread abuses (financial, managerial, physical and sexual - including children), failure to prevent corruption and fall-down of very significant percentage of it's spiritual and managerial leaders.

[Guest guest]

 

There are things I admire about other-than-ISKCON camps, especially I really appreciated Sridhar Maharaja.

 

But, whenever I hear the least criticism of Srila Prabhupada I fly off the handle. I don't know why.

Certainly not because I am any kind of model disciple or even a disciple at all.

 

It's just that without Srila Prabhupada I doubt seriously that any of the Godbrothers would have accomplished what Srila Prabhupada did.

 

Maybe if you stop criticizing other truly exalted gurus you will finally understand?

 

How do you think other people feel when you blast their gurus in a most unkind way? These people think: "Where did this guy learn to be so disrespectful to senior Vaishnavas? Where is his audacity coming from? Did he lear it from his guru? Disciples like you are hardly the best legacy a guru can leave. Any guru.

[Guest guest]

 

Iskcon is a failure because more than 90% of its members LEAVE in disgust.

 

And some are FORCED to leave against their wishes.

[Guruvani]

 

Iskcon is a failure because more than 90% of its members LEAVE in disgust.

 

a church which loses more then 90% of it's members is a DISMAL failure.

 

other failures include the loss of properties, the loss of public trust, total failure of the primary educational system (gurukulas), failure to prevent widespread abuses (financial, managerial, physical and sexual - including children), failure to prevent corruption and fall-down of very significant percentage of it's spiritual and managerial leaders.

Be that as it may, it simply begs the question even more that why Narayana Maharaja is not making any plans or provisions for his many followers around the world to have their own temples and their own mission?

 

Since the beginning of the conflict, the followers of Narayana Maharaja have been trying to promote him as the successor to Srila Prabhupada and not as a seperate acharya with his own mission.

 

The idea has always been that somehow, someway all his followers can be accepted into greater ISKCON and be able to use ISKCON as the foundation for their own facility.

 

Well, if ISKCON is so rotten, hopeless and corrupt then it would seem that Narayana Maharaja would be making some substantial effort to get some temples built and some centers opened so that his followers in the western world can have some support structure of their own in the way Srila Prabhupada tried to build this support structure for his followers.

 

If ISKCON is so rotten and hopeless then why do the followers of Narayana Maharaja keep promoting him even today as the successor to Srila Prabhupada.

To say he is successor to Srila Prabhupada is to say that he should be the acharya of ISKCON.

We have been hearing that same song and dance for years.

 

Why couldn't he and his followers just have avoided an attempt to take over ISKCON and make some efforts to establish their own institution?

 

Nobody gives a damn if he becomes acharya and has his own institution.

 

It's because his followers have been promoting him as the rightfull acharya to ISKCON for years that he has met with such animosity and resistance.

 

Even he has promoted himself as the successor to Srila Prabhupada and in so doing has created the major portion of the bitterness and rivalry that exists today.

 

Take your guru, build your own instutition and give up your pipe dream to take over ISKCON or become integrated into ISKCON.

 

Then, everybody can get along a lot better.

[Guest guest]

 

Be that as it may, it simply begs the question even more that why Narayana Maharaja is not making any plans or provisions for his many followers around the world to have their own temples and their own mission?

 

That is their problem. I am not NM disciple altough I have great respect and admiration for him.

 

However, you have touched on an issue that is very relevant IMO. The guru-centrism of Gaudiya Vaishnavism in the Saraswata Parampara makes it very, very difficult to achieve a smooth transition when a prominent guru departs. Invariably there is much confusion, infighting and turmoil among the disciples which in turn ruins the focus of the mission.

 

Coming to think of that, not leaving behind big temples prevents the disciples from fighting over brick and mortar. It happened in GM, and it happened in Iskcon.

[Guruvani]

 

That is their problem. I am not NM disciple altough I have great respect and admiration for him.

 

However, you have touched on an issue that is very relevant IMO. The guru-centrism of Gaudiya Vaishnavism in the Saraswata Parampara makes it very, very difficult to achieve a smooth transition when a prominent guru departs. Invariably there is much confusion, infighting and turmoil among the disciples which in turn ruins the focus of the mission.

 

Coming to think of that, not leaving behind big temples prevents the disciples from fighting over brick and mortar. It happened in GM, and it happened in Iskcon.

 

But, Srila Prabhupada and Srila Saraswati Thakur both found it necessary to build the temples.

Especially in the west these temples were invaluable as centers for devotee association.

The temples are not about brick and mortar really.

Temples are about building devotional congregations, sanga and association of devotees which is vital in the Krishna consciousness movement.

 

It appears that Narayana Maharaja is just going to leave a disorganized number of disciples all over the world without any real base or foundation.

 

Considering that there is strength in association and that his disciples are going to be scattered like the wind, it's hard to imagine how they are going to be able to keep up their spiritual life without a strong base of association which ISKCON as a society is actually all about.

 

The remaining disciples of Srila Prabhupada that are holding it together with any semblance of genuine spiritual life are the ones that are sticking closely to the temples and close to each others association, the deities and the Pancaratra vidhi.

 

Outside the inner core of ISKCON things really start to deteriorate when you really get down to the brass tacks of strict sadhana.

 

Without a strong core and a strong local base, the followers of Narayana Maharaja are going to go the way of so many ISKCON devotees who have drifted away due to internal conflcit and practically given up spiritual life.

 

They aren't special.

Many of the fanatic followers of Narayana Maharaja will fall back into all sorts of visaya after he is gone and his group starts to crack and divide.

 

Without temples and strongholds they are doomed.

I don't see much happening in the way of developing their own bases in the western countries.

[Guest guest]

 

But, Srila Prabhupada and Srila Saraswati Thakur both found it necessary to build the temples.

Especially in the west these temples were invaluable as centers for devotee association.

The temples are not about brick and mortar really.

Temples are about building devotional congregations, sanga and association of devotees which is vital in the Krishna consciousness movement.

 

It appears that Narayana Maharaja is just going to leave a disorganized number of disciples all over the world without any real base or foundation.

 

 

Maybe the disciples will realize that and eventually open up decentralized, independent centers on their own. This is what Prabhupada wanted too.

 

I find Iskcon devotees way too dependent on the organisation. If my family situation was different, I would open a small independent preaching temple like I did when I was a full time devotee. Actually, with a little help from my friends we have opened 4 centers in less than 4 years, an a prayer and a shoe-string budget. After some 25 years of Iskcon management only 3 of them are still open today - but I will admit they are much bigger and nicer, yet have fewer full time devotees than 25 years ago.

 

I think I can do it again... anytime...

[Guruvani]

 

Maybe the disciples will realize that and eventually open up decentralized, independent centers on their own. This is what Prabhupada wanted too.

 

I find Iskcon devotees way too dependent on the organisation. If my family situation was different, I would open a small independent preaching temple like I did when I was a full time devotee. Actually, with a little help from my friends we have opened 4 centers in less than 4 years, an a prayer and a shoe-string budget. After some 25 years of Iskcon management only 3 of them are still open today - but I will admit they are much bigger and nicer, yet have fewer full time devotees than 25 years ago.

 

I think I can do it again... anytime...

 

Dependence on the organization is not what it is all about, but really dependence on each other is vital for the majority of devotees who need the support structure of each other.

 

The problem is that outside of the organizations nobody has really accomplished much of anything in the way of providing a strong sanga of devotees that can support each other.

 

Maybe there are some who don't need peer groups and support groups, but for the most part the strength in numbers is vital for western devotees.

 

It doesn't have to be corperate or official, but so far the corperate and official organizations are about the only groups that have really accomplished much of anything.

 

I am a loner and I am not doing so great, so I know all about it.

[Guest guest]

If I told you what it takes

to reach the highest high,

You'd laugh and say 'nothing's that simple'

But you've been told many times before

Messiahs pointed to the door

And no one had the guts to leave the temple!

 

mahak: Otherwise, we sponge, like born again christians. But who needs babies, time to grow up.

[Shakti-Fan]

 

Since the beginning of the conflict, the followers of Narayana Maharaja have been trying to promote him as the successor to Srila Prabhupada and not as a seperate acharya with his own mission.

 

What confict? The conflict that ISKCON created itself. It was similar to the "Sridhar Maharaja conflict". Senior GBCs and gurus went to Narayana Maharaja as they went to Sridhar Maharaja, in an obseqious and submissive way, allowed the sessions to be recorded, and even transcribed, then the information got out to the rank and file, then the absolute postion of the GBC and gurus became vulnerable, then some called the GBC gurus disloyal to Prabhupada. Then the GBC responded just as they did in 1981 and banned Narayana Maharaja and kicked out those ISKCON members who refused to give up NM association. What really scared the GBC was that the NM thing had a lot of momentum. Then the NM followers became angry and started pushing even harder. Then more reaction from ISKCON. Then certain followers of Sridhar Maharaja who had an axe to grind with NM and got into the act and successfully inflamed the situation even further.

 

 

If ISKCON is so rotten and hopeless then why do the followers of Narayana Maharaja keep promoting him even today as the successor to Srila Prabhupada.

 

I think one of the answers to that is that NM sees ISKCON in a broad way, so that Rupa And Raghunatha Goswamis and Bhaktivinode Thakur would be members the the "real" ISKCON. Its not unlike Sridhar Maharaja's definition of ISKCON.

[Guruvani]

 

I think one of the answers to that is that NM sees ISKCON in a broad way, so that Rupa And Raghunatha Goswamis and Bhaktivinode Thakur would be members the the "real" ISKCON. Its not unlike Sridhar Maharaja's definition of ISKCON.

Well, I am hoping that Narayana Maharaja is just simple and not savvy in the brutal and savage ways of us western people and that is why he is naive enough to ever expect that the GBC would have ever given him any kind of warm welcome into ISKCON.

 

I am 100% behind Narayana Maharaja being a self-effulgent acharya with his own phalanx of Sankirtan warriors.

 

I am 100% against Narayana Maharaja having any position in ISKCON as siksha or diksha guru.

 

But, I think that maybe if he is a very sincere devotee that of course he will be simple and vulnerable and just a victim of the brutal reality of ISKCON as a thoroughbred Prabhupada institution than can never and will never embrace any other Gaudiya acharya aside from Srila Prabhupada.

 

Narayana Maharaja might very well be cable of teaching a more intimate and esoteric version of the Gaudiya siddhanta than Srila Prabhupada gave to the neophyte western devotees of ISKCON.

 

Sure, why not.

 

All the more reason why he can never really fit into the Gaudiya recruiting office known as ISKCON.

 

Why didn't Narayana Maharaja start a Gaudiya college instead of trying to take over the Gaudiya pre-school?

 

Srila Prabhupada's books are quite deep for those who have deep understanding, but they are quite shallow for those who are shallow devotees absorbed in the externals of ISKCON.

 

Being greatly learned and advanced might actually disqualify Narayana Maharaja from being at the helm of ISKCON?

 

I think it does...................

[Guest guest]

Shastra enjoins that one not build temples or amass disciples. Some acaryas build temples and amass disciples, some may amass disciples and not build temples, some may have one disciple in an isolated area, some may be avadhuta and live alone.

 

Acaryas, devotees, gurus, madhyama and uttama adhikaris are actually beyone the cackling of crows called kanisthas. Foolish folks criticize those who have Krsna and have given Krsna to others, and it does one no service to cloak oneself in false loyalty to a particular acarya, other than keeping us in darkness.

 

All the vanivadas proclaim following of the teachings of Srila Prabhupada. Yet they dont read his books in favor of trying to find their eccliastic leanings from business memos, legal documents and personal letters to others.

 

My question is that if one proclaims to follow the vani of Srila Prabhupada, how come your life is not sublime? Why is there a craving for something more than he has given?

 

His VANI is plain and simple, "Chant Hare Krsna and your life will be Sublime." Yet, misery abounds, and anxiety is constantly expressed by those who are outside the structure of the foundation that bears His name, others are full of misery in losing hold of the same foundational structure. What about chanting and finding ones life sublime?

 

Im not an acarya, officiating or independent, I have only a few disciples who may have taken shelter of my words over the years, the ones that come from the Acarya, that which I have passed on unfiltered thru my flawed interpretations. I build no temples. But I took up Srila Prabhupadas VANI and chanted, first in 1967, more seriously in 1969, and formally promised His that "Yes, I will chant Hare Krsna, and you have given me such a sublime life." Not in a temple, not encumbered by the opinions of others, yet my life is sublime, and I dont seem to ever forget this. (I have tried, believe me, but he commits himself to me to a much greater degree than I could ever commit to him.) Death surrounds me, but my life is sublime. Disease eats me, but my life is sublime. I have disappointed concerns for some of my peers who I hear about thru the gossip of me and my peers, but my life is sublime. Im retired, but now I work hard 60 hours a week. All the money I make goes down the drain of political slavery. But my life is sublime, because I took up the process offered by the great gift giver, Srila Prabhupada. I never had a use for his buildings or the funding or the following, it was just a one-on-one proposition. I chanted, my life is sublime, he has given me eternal life even in this dying carcass I have temporarily holding me.

 

So, excuse me for not understanding why others lives are not very sublime, how they crave for something more than he gives. Why didnt it work?

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[Shakti-Fan]

 

 

Take your guru, build your own instutition and give up your pipe dream to take over ISKCON or become integrated into ISKCON.

 

Then, everybody can get along a lot better.

 

 

Being greatly learned and advanced might actually disqualify Narayana Maharaja from being at the helm of ISKCON?

 

I think it does...................

 

It seems to me that Narayana Maharaja's so-called attempt to take over ISKCON is just a ruse, or a ploy by him to put pressure on the ISKCON leadership to come up to the real standard of Gaudiya Vaisnavism. At the same time Narayana Maharaja knows by now that this is an impossible proposition, therefore he is revealing or confirming the fallen condition of the ISKCON leadership. For the sake of his siksa and diksa followers this strategy re-enforces their faith in him as an uttama adhikari guru by highlighting the contrast between him and the ISKCON gurus. To say that Narayana Maharaja is literally trying to take over the ISKCON institution is to just repeat the same knee jerk reaction that the GBC responded with in the early 1990's. We must remember that they also thought that unless Sridhar Maharaja was cast out of ISKCON's association that he would have also taken over the institution in the early 1980's. In that case perhaps they were correct.

[Guruvani]

 

It seems to me that Narayana Maharaja's so-called attempt to take over ISKCON is just a ruse, or a ploy by him to put pressure on the ISKCON leadership to come up to the real standard of Gaudiya Vaisnavism. At the same time Narayana Maharaja knows by now that this is an impossible proposition, therefore he is revealing or confirming the fallen condition of the ISKCON leadership. For the sake of his siksa and diksa followers this strategy re-enforces their faith in him as an uttama adhikari guru by highlighting the contrast between him and the ISKCON gurus. To say that Narayana Maharaja is literally trying to take over the ISKCON institution is to just repeat the same knee jerk reaction that the GBC responded with in the early 1990's. We must remember that they also thought that unless Sridhar Maharaja was cast out of ISKCON's association that he would have also taken over the institution in the early 1980's. In that case perhaps they were correct.

 

A ploy? A ruse?

Wouldn't that be duplistic?

 

If Narayana Maharaja would have just presented himself an an acharya from another institution with no interest or even willingness to become the "successor to Srila Prabhupada" there would have been a lot less uproar over his getting involved with ISKCON affairs and a lot more interest in him from the ISKCON congregationals.

 

 

We must remember that they also thought that unless Sridhar Maharaja was cast out of ISKCON's association that he would have also taken over the institution in the early 1980's. In that case perhaps they were correct.

 

Thats a cheap shot and very, very far from truth.

 

Sridhar Maharaja was practically a babaji by the time ISKCON met with disaster.

Anybody that knows anything about him at all knows that he could never have even been dragged into ISKCON leadership by any means.

[muralidhar_das]

Srila Sridhar Maharaj was a well wisher of ISKCON and he wanted to see it become successful. So when lots of dissatisfied and disenfranchised ISKCON people came to see him such as Hamsaduta, Jayatirtha and Bhakti Caru he tried to advise them how to continue their service and become successful in life.

 

At the same time Srila Sridhar Maharaj was very determined to continue his own Parampara and said that in his own Math only Srila Govinda Maharaj is authorized as his successor. He was asked by Prabhupada, "Please come and live with me in Mayapura", but Srila Sridhar Maharaj didn't want to do that. He regarded Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami as his friend, but at the same time Srila Sridhar Maharaj wanted his own disciples to continue his Parampara - totally separate from the Parampara of Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.

 

You don't see pictures of Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami on the alter in any temple of Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Math. You only see the pictures of Srila Sridhar Maharaj and his chosen successor.

[Guruvani]

 

 

At the same time Srila Sridhar Maharaj was very determined to continue his own Parampara and said that in his own Math only Srila Govinda Maharaj is authorized as his successor.

 

Thats a little confusing.

 

If Sridhar Maharaja said that only Govinda Maharaja is his authorized successor in the Matha, then that seems to mean that when Srila Govinda Maharaja is gone that the successor will have to be a disciple of Govinda Maharaja because Srila Sridhar Maharaja explicitly stated that ONLY Govinda Maharaja will be his successor.

 

As well, it seems that a blanket prohibition against any disciple aside from Govinda Maharaja being an acharya at the Matha excludes the possibility that any other disciple will ever become uttama-adhikari and qualified to accept disciples.

 

It seems that Srila Sridhar Maharaja only has ONE successor and that really none of his other disciples can ever claim to be successor acharya to Srila Sridhar Maharaja.

 

If a disciple of Sridhar Maharaja other than Govinda Maharaja becomes qualified even to the perfection of svarupa-siddhi, he can still never become acharya or guru because Sridhar Maharaja only approved Govinda Maharaja.

 

The only way any other disciple of Sridhar Maharaja can ever become acharya now is if they break away and start their own mission which doesn't have any approval or authority from Sridhar Maharaja and would surely be frowned upon by the SCSM authorities.

 

It seems almost as if Sridhar Maharaja restricted any disciple other than Govinda Maharaja from ever becoming acharya and accepting disciples?

 

It almost appears that there can never be more than one successor acharya to Srila Sridhar Maharaja?

 

Unlike Srila Prabhupada, I don't recall Srila Sridhar Maharaja instructing that all his disciples would have to become spiritual masters.

 

Srila Prabhupada said things like "you, all my disciples, you will also have to become spiritual master".

 

Sridhar Maharaja made it clear that Govinda Maharaja was the only successor he authorized.

 

Saving the mission or saving the world.

Two very different conceptions.

[muralidhar_das]

 

Thats a little confusing.

 

If Sridhar Maharaja said that only Govinda Maharaja is his authorized successor in the Matha, then that seems to mean that when Srila Govinda

 

Yes the person(s) succeeding Srila Govinda Maharaj as Acharya of Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Math will be a disciple of Srila Govinda Maharaj.

 

This was all decided long ago.

[Guruvani]

 

Yes the person(s) succeeding Srila Govinda Maharaj as Acharya of Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Math will be a disciple of Srila Govinda Maharaj.

 

This was all decided long ago.

Not that it's really any of my business or affecting me, but that scenario there appears to me to have the makings of a major meltdown of Sri Chaitanya Saraswata Matha as an international organization founded on the spiritual power of Srila Sridhar Maharaja.

 

When it's all said and done, I think it will be quite evident that ISKCON was not the only international Gaudiya institution to meet with cataclysmic difficulties.

 

I foresee that SCSM as well as the following of Narayana Maharaja will as well have their fare share of kali-yuga interference.

 

Then, the only serious alternatives to ISKCON will become less attractive an alternative to ISKCON.

 

In the future, I think ISKCON will always be the most formidable Gaudiya preaching mission on the planet.

 

I think the legacy of Srila Prabhupada will simply grow and grow in almost a Pauline Christianity fashion.

 

Srila Prabhupada will be something like the Jesus of Gaudiya Vaishnavism in the western world.

 

The western world has such an orientation to the idea of ONE savior religiousity that the Gaudiya Vaishnava faith will probably evolve in that direction, especially as the list of fallen gurus grows and grows.

 

Eventually, the big Gaudiya institutions will realize that the only way to revive the faith in the Gaudiya mission will be to resurrect some sort of ritvik concept similar to the Christian tradition.

 

When "change or die" confronts the institutions, they might very well change.