Police: Temple tension in London

[suchandra]

Seems like they have some fighting going on right in the Bhaktivedanta Manor, UK...." Temple President Gauri Dasa allowing force to be used against the revivalists", doesnt sound good.

 

Temple tension in Hertfordshire

 

<SMALL></SMALL><SMALL></SMALL>http://www.dailyindia.com/show/106628.php/Temple-tension-in-Hertfordshire

By Mike Lockey <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 width=255 align=left border=0><TBODY><TR><TD></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

 

London, Jan.24 (ANI): According to reports in the British press, there is increasing concern over what is going on at a Hindu temple in Hertfordshire, just north of London.

 

"So-called anti-Hindu incidents involve the police being called in to remove devotees, who have then been banned from entering the premises of the Bhaktivedanta Manor temple near Watford," the Eastern Eye reported.

 

And, as Arjun Malik, spokesman for the campaign group Hindu Human Rights. told the paper: "There have been a number of strange reports about the temple over the last few months. The idea of banning someone from offering prayers at a temple just because you disagree with their way of thinking is a completely anti-Hindu principle. Hindu temples have always been open to everyone, be it any faith or thinking".

 

It seems that the manor, gifted as a temple by the late great George Harrison of Beatle fame, and, incidentally, recently visited by David Cameron, leader of the conservative party, has been the victim of philosophical differences caused by the activities of the ISKCON Revival Movement. (ISKCOM-IRM).

 

This body was set up some three years ago to take ISKCON back to its roots and restore the teachings of the movement to what they were under the founder, Srila Prabhupada.

 

 

ISKCON wants Srila Prabhupada as the sole guru of the entire movement and this is where the argument starts, because other members, including the president of the Bhaktivedanta temple, Gauri Dasa, disagree.

 

Dasa has now been accused of allowing force to be used against the revivalists but he told the Eastern Eye that: "It is just a splinter group which has a different opinion on the issue of succession. This temple is a place of peace and worship. It is open to everyone, Hindu, Muslim or atheist. But if someone is disrupting the peace of the place then we have to ask them not to enter. These were a few isolated incidents and no ban is in force now".

 

Despite these protestations of innocence, a senior media executive and active member of ISKCOM-IRM, and who wished to remain anonymous, said that: "I am actually in the midst of negotiating my ban from entering the Bhaktivedanta temple". They can't both be right, but let us hope that the dispute is sorted out amicably and quickly before further damage is done to the reputation of the temple and its devotees. (ANI)

 

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[Guest guest]

This is precisely why I detest the ritviks. All they do is bring disrepute to the movement.

 

 

Seems like they have some fighting going on right in the Bhaktivedanta Manor, UK...." Temple President Gauri Dasa allowing force to be used against the revivalists", doesnt sound good.

 

Temple tension in Hertfordshire

 

<SMALL></SMALL><SMALL></SMALL>[by Mike Lockey <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 width=255 align=left border=0><TBODY><TR><TD></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

 

London, Jan.24 (ANI): According to reports in the British press, there is increasing concern over what is going on at a Hindu temple in Hertfordshire, just north of London.

 

"So-called anti-Hindu incidents involve the police being called in to remove devotees, who have then been banned from entering the premises of the Bhaktivedanta Manor temple near Watford," the Eastern Eye reported.

 

And, as Arjun Malik, spokesman for the campaign group Hindu Human Rights. told the paper: "There have been a number of strange reports about the temple over the last few months. The idea of banning someone from offering prayers at a temple just because you disagree with their way of thinking is a completely anti-Hindu principle. Hindu temples have always been open to everyone, be it any faith or thinking".

 

It seems that the manor, gifted as a temple by the late great George Harrison of Beatle fame, and, incidentally, recently visited by David Cameron, leader of the conservative party, has been the victim of philosophical differences caused by the activities of the ISKCON Revival Movement. (ISKCOM-IRM).

 

This body was set up some three years ago to take ISKCON back to its roots and restore the teachings of the movement to what they were under the founder, Srila Prabhupada.

 

 

 

ISKCON wants Srila Prabhupada as the sole guru of the entire movement and this is where the argument starts, because other members, including the president of the Bhaktivedanta temple, Gauri Dasa, disagree.

 

Dasa has now been accused of allowing force to be used against the revivalists but he told the Eastern Eye that: "It is just a splinter group which has a different opinion on the issue of succession. This temple is a place of peace and worship. It is open to everyone, Hindu, Muslim or atheist. But if someone is disrupting the peace of the place then we have to ask them not to enter. These were a few isolated incidents and no ban is in force now".

 

Despite these protestations of innocence, a senior media executive and active member of ISKCOM-IRM, and who wished to remain anonymous, said that: "I am actually in the midst of negotiating my ban from entering the Bhaktivedanta temple". They can't both be right, but let us hope that the dispute is sorted out amicably and quickly before further damage is done to the reputation of the temple and its devotees. (ANI)

 

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[Guest guest]

I agree with Gaura dasa prabhu, Temple President of Bhaktivedanta Manor. In my local temple, the ritviks were allowed as long as there was no dsiruption. Then they started distributing the nonsensical back to Prabhupada magazines and were promptly banned. It has been peaceful ever since.

 

These ritviks in London cause a lot of trouble and there is no alternative but to ban them.

 

 

Dasa has now been accused of allowing force to be used against the revivalists but he told the Eastern Eye that: "It is just a splinter group which has a different opinion on the issue of succession. This temple is a place of peace and worship. It is open to everyone, Hindu, Muslim or atheist. But if someone is disrupting the peace of the place then we have to ask them not to enter. These were a few isolated incidents and no ban is in force now".

 

[Guest guest]

 

I agree with Gaura dasa prabhu, Temple President of Bhaktivedanta Manor. In my local temple, the ritviks were allowed as long as there was no dsiruption. Then they started distributing the nonsensical back to Prabhupada magazines and were promptly banned. It has been peaceful ever since.

 

These ritviks in London cause a lot of trouble and there is no alternative but to ban them.

 

This is just a crock of nonsense. The ritviks never disrupted the temple, and no magazines were distributed in the temple.

 

There is a policy of banning anyone who is associated with the ritvik belief that Srila Prabhupada is ISKCON's guru. Shock, horror - Prabhupada is the guru?! Ban them!

 

Is this "Gaura dasa prabhu, Temple President of Bhaktivedanta Manor" the same one exposed on The Sampradaya Sun by 15 gurukula abuse victims?

[Guest guest]

Sorry, I should have been clear. By 'local' temple, I meant the temple in the city where I live, not in London!

 

Anyways, the ritvik folks did go to the manor on one Janmastami in the past distributing offensive literature convincing people not to go into the temple. Keeping people away from Krishna ... that is grossly offensive.

 

That is why I have very little respect for ritviks. Not because they believe Srila Prabhupada is guru but because their actions cause people to go away from ISKCON and a lot of them instead go to mayavadi hindu temples.

 

 

This is just a crock of nonsense. The ritviks never disrupted the temple, and no magazines were distributed in the temple.

 

There is a policy of banning anyone who is associated with the ritvik belief that Srila Prabhupada is ISKCON's guru. Shock, horror - Prabhupada is the guru?! Ban them!

 

Is this "Gaura dasa prabhu, Temple President of Bhaktivedanta Manor" the same one exposed on The Sampradaya Sun by 15 gurukula abuse victims?

[Guest guest]

So all ritviks are pure devotees? If not, apply the same principle to ritviks. That is, because a few ritviks fell down, all ritviks are bad and ritvik'ism itself must be abolished!

 

 

This is just a crock of nonsense. The ritviks never disrupted the temple, and no magazines were distributed in the temple.

 

There is a policy of banning anyone who is associated with the ritvik belief that Srila Prabhupada is ISKCON's guru. Shock, horror - Prabhupada is the guru?! Ban them!

 

Is this "Gaura dasa prabhu, Temple President of Bhaktivedanta Manor" the same one exposed on The Sampradaya Sun by 15 gurukula abuse victims?

[Guest guest]

 

So all ritviks are pure devotees? If not, apply the same principle to ritviks. That is, because a few ritviks fell down, all ritviks are bad and ritvik'ism itself must be abolished!

 

Again you are not making sense. 'Ritviks' do not claim they are pure devotees. They claim that Srila Prabhupada is the pure devotee one is authorised to surrender to as his disciple; while the GBC say that you cannot surrender to Srila Prabhupada - you must accept one of their elected 'pure devotees'!

 

The problem with the GBC's position is:

 

1) SP only authorised ritvik, with himself as the only diksa guru. We know this because he put it in writing (July 9th 1977, and his Final Will).

 

2) SP said pure devotees cannot be elected ("Mundane votes have no jursidcition to elect a Vaisnava acarya" - Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Madhya-lila, Ch 1, 218-219)

 

3) The GBC elects 'pure devotees'.

 

4) The GBC's 'pure devotees' keep falling down.

 

But if you point this out, they ban you.

[Guest guest]

 

Sorry, I should have been clear. By 'local' temple, I meant the temple in the city where I live, not in London!

 

Anyways, the ritvik folks did go to the manor on one Janmastami in the past distributing offensive literature convincing people not to go into the temple. Keeping people away from Krishna ... that is grossly offensive.

 

That is why I have very little respect for ritviks. Not because they believe Srila Prabhupada is guru but because their actions cause people to go away from ISKCON and a lot of them instead go to mayavadi hindu temples.

 

You say keeping people away from Krishna is grossly offensive. In that case banning ritviks from seeing Krishna in the temple is grossly offensive, especially since you do not mind that ritviks worship Prabhupada as the guru.

 

Then when they get banned, you complain that distributing a leaflet saying that banning is wrong is "grossly offensive". And due to saying that they are banned from seeing Krishna, many people go to mayavadi temples. (Of course, whether this is true or not you cannot prove.). BTW, I just read a post on the Sampradaya Sun where the Manor TP Gauri das says he sends his daughter to a Swaminarayan Hindu Temple school (that's mayavada in case you didn't know).

[Guest guest]

well, if the ritviks were coming to the temple just to serve Krishna, they wouldn't be banned. They get banned because they try to disrupt. I have to repeat what happened in the local temple. The ritviks were allowed as long as there was no disturbance and hardly anyone was bothered by their presence. Then they started distributing BTPs and promptly got banned. Doesn't seem like they're thre to serve, so please don;t compare them to the innocent public who lose the opportunity because of folks like you.

 

As regards his daughter, come on! He can't start a Hare Krishna school so his daughter can go there.

 

 

 

You say keeping people away from Krishna is grossly offensive. In that case banning ritviks from seeing Krishna in the temple is grossly offensive, especially since you do not mind that ritviks worship Prabhupada as the guru.

 

Then when they get banned, you complain that distributing a leaflet saying that banning is wrong is "grossly offensive". And due to saying that they are banned from seeing Krishna, many people go to mayavadi temples. (Of course, whether this is true or not you cannot prove.). BTW, I just read a post on the Sampradaya Sun where the Manor TP Gauri das says he sends his daughter to a Swaminarayan Hindu Temple school (that's mayavada in case you didn't know).

[Guest guest]

 

well, if the ritviks were coming to the temple just to serve Krishna, they wouldn't be banned. They get banned because they try to disrupt. I have to repeat what happened in the local temple. The ritviks were allowed as long as there was no disturbance and hardly anyone was bothered by their presence. Then they started distributing BTPs and promptly got banned. Doesn't seem like they're thre to serve, so please don;t compare them to the innocent public who lose the opportunity because of folks like you.

 

As regards his daughter, come on! He can't start a Hare Krishna school so his daughter can go there.

 

NO, this is completely untrue. The ritviks were banned NOT for 'disrupting the temple' - although this is the propaganda you no doubt have been fed. The letters from the temple banning them were published in BTP a while back, and clearly prove that they are banned just for believing that Prabhupada is their guru.

 

Now having fabricated the 'fact' that 'many people' were so shocked that the ritviks are preaching that SP is the guru (and even that outside of the temple), that they all suddenly left Iskcon and rushed to join other Hindu temples, you completely backtrack and say that it is perfectly OK for the TP to send his kid to the same Hindu mayavada institution that you have just condemned! Do you know what the term 'double standards' means?

[Guest guest]

Seems like there is some misunderstanding between what we've both been saying and understanding. But then that's common on the internet!

 

Back to subject ... I saw personally what happened in my temple, so no chance of being misled by propaganda. Also, the people that I said went to mayavada temples are not congregation devotees who were shocked by ritvik stance on gurus. the congregation devotees that I know have a strong taste for devotional service. Issues such as ritviks are just too weak a reason to make them stop. These are devotees that have taken up this path very seriously and whose preaching of pure philosophy helped me be unaffected by the ritvik propaganda. They didn't spend their time telling me ritviks were evil. On the contrary, they inspired me to engage in krishna's service. It's the newcomers that were handed BTP's at Ratha Yatra festivals that subsequently never came back. Innocent people that might otherwise have had a chance, were misled by the propaganda that you guys are spreading and just decided to go elsewhere.

 

As regards the school, please don't take this personally but I think you're simply displaying the common ritvik symptom of fault finding. In my opinion, sending his daighter to that school is preferable to sending her to a regular school where meat is served and there is a different culture prevailing. With this Hindu school, at least they're vegetarian and there is some semblance of our culture. Please try to look beyond all of these trivial things instead of trying anything to pick faults. This is the attitude that hasn't endeared the ritviks to most people, including me.

 

 

NO, this is completely untrue. The ritviks were banned NOT for 'disrupting the temple' - although this is the propaganda you no doubt have been fed. The letters from the temple banning them were published in BTP a while back, and clearly prove that they are banned just for believing that Prabhupada is their guru.

 

Now having fabricated the 'fact' that 'many people' were so shocked that the ritviks are preaching that SP is the guru (and even that outside of the temple), that they all suddenly left Iskcon and rushed to join other Hindu temples, you completely backtrack and say that it is perfectly OK for the TP to send his kid to the same Hindu mayavada institution that you have just condemned! Do you know what the term 'double standards' means?

[suchandra]

 

Seems like there is some misunderstanding between what we've both been saying and understanding. But then that's common on the internet!

 

Back to subject ... I saw personally what happened in my temple, so no chance of being misled by propaganda. Also, the people that I said went to mayavada temples are not congregation devotees who were shocked by ritvik stance on gurus. the congregation devotees that I know have a strong taste for devotional service. Issues such as ritviks are just too weak a reason to make them stop. These are devotees that have taken up this path very seriously and whose preaching of pure philosophy helped me be unaffected by the ritvik propaganda. They didn't spend their time telling me ritviks were evil. On the contrary, they inspired me to engage in krishna's service. It's the newcomers that were handed BTP's at Ratha Yatra festivals that subsequently never came back. Innocent people that might otherwise have had a chance, were misled by the propaganda that you guys are spreading and just decided to go elsewhere.

 

As regards the school, please don't take this personally but I think you're simply displaying the common ritvik symptom of fault finding. In my opinion, sending his daighter to that school is preferable to sending her to a regular school where meat is served and there is a different culture prevailing. With this Hindu school, at least they're vegetarian and there is some semblance of our culture. Please try to look beyond all of these trivial things instead of trying anything to pick faults. This is the attitude that hasn't endeared the ritviks to most people, including me.

Seems like Gauri das is glued to his armchair and doesnt move one inch although it is stated that temple presidents have to be elected by the temple community and after three years, re-elected or NOT elected again. Why ISKCON UK has such severe problems to follow this simple instruction by Srila Prabhupada? If there's such heavy opposition to what Prabhupada ordered in this regard, how can we believe that other guidelines&formulas of Srila Prabhupada are being followed in detail?

 

UK's first state-funded Hindu school in midst of spiritual row

 

By Mike Lockey

London, Jan.25 (ANI): Britain's first state-funded Hindu faith school has recently become involved in a major row. This row involves the man who is scheduled to become the spiritual head of the school's affairs when it opens in 2008.

 

Two campaign groups, Hindu Human Rights and Vivekananda Centre, are concerned about the involvement in the school's affairs of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness (ISKCON).

 

This organisation is to become an affiliated faith partner of the school. According to the Eastern Eye newspaper, there are worries that the president of Bhaktivedanta Manor temple in Watford, to the north of London, in Watford, hit children when he was teaching at an ashram in India. The president, Gauri Dasa, is a member of ISKCON.

 

As Arjun Malik, spokesman for Hindu Human Rights, said to the paper: "We have received emails for a while now, expressing concerns about allegations that Gauri Dasa used to beat children. Parents will obviously not feel safe sending their children to a school which has such a man involved".

 

In answer to this, Gauri Dasa has stated that corporal punishment was part of the disciplinary structure of ISKCON schools in the '70s and '80s and has claimed that: "All these allegations stem from an anonymous email sent out to some website. Its contents are full of half-truths...We run a very successful school as part of the Bhaktivedanta temple."

 

But the information, regardless of whether or not it is anonymous, is believed by many, including one Gurukuli Dasa - it is assumed no relation to Gauri - and a former member of ISKCON's Vrindavan ashram in India. He has said in an article on the web that: "Ashram teacher Gauri Dasa used to beat the kids with slaps and sticks".

 

But, as Jay Dilip Lhakani, who is the co-ordinator of Vivekananda Centre, an academic body that promotes Hindu studies in schools in Britain, pointed out: "None of the allegations against Gauri Dasa have been proven, but ISKCON has a poor reputation due to the child-abuse lawsuits filed against it in the US".

 

And Ramesh Kallidai, secretary-general of the Hindu Forum of Britain, has, in effect, defended Gauri Dasa by saying that: "Gauri Dasa is our spiritual ambassador. We are yet to see any hard evidence against him. We are glad ISKCON is associated with the first faith school".

 

Mr. Kallidai, incidentally, is an initiated member of ISKCON. (ANI)

[suchandra]

Oh, forgot the link: dailyindia.com/show/107028.php/UKs-first-state-funded-Hindu-school-in-midst-of-spiritual-row

[Guest guest]

I don't care if the allegations are true or not but the very fact that there are allegations against him means that you shouldn't make him the head of the school. Choose someone else. It's as simple as that. The question is why are the ritviks now latching onto this insignificant point and blowing it out of proportion?

 

There are millions of suffering souls in this world and all you're concerned about is the past of Gauri Dasa and who becomes the head of that school? Gimme a break man!

 

 

Seems like Gauri das is glued to his armchair and doesnt move one inch although it is stated that temple presidents have to be elected by the temple community and after three years, re-elected or NOT elected again. Why ISKCON UK has such severe problems to follow this simple instruction by Srila Prabhupada? If there's such heavy opposition to what Prabhupada ordered in this regard, how can we believe that other guidelines&formulas of Srila Prabhupada are being followed in detail?

 

UK's first state-funded Hindu school in midst of spiritual row

 

By Mike Lockey

London, Jan.25 (ANI): Britain's first state-funded Hindu faith school has recently become involved in a major row. This row involves the man who is scheduled to become the spiritual head of the school's affairs when it opens in 2008.

 

Two campaign groups, Hindu Human Rights and Vivekananda Centre, are concerned about the involvement in the school's affairs of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness (ISKCON).

 

This organisation is to become an affiliated faith partner of the school. According to the Eastern Eye newspaper, there are worries that the president of Bhaktivedanta Manor temple in Watford, to the north of London, in Watford, hit children when he was teaching at an ashram in India. The president, Gauri Dasa, is a member of ISKCON.

 

As Arjun Malik, spokesman for Hindu Human Rights, said to the paper: "We have received emails for a while now, expressing concerns about allegations that Gauri Dasa used to beat children. Parents will obviously not feel safe sending their children to a school which has such a man involved".

 

In answer to this, Gauri Dasa has stated that corporal punishment was part of the disciplinary structure of ISKCON schools in the '70s and '80s and has claimed that: "All these allegations stem from an anonymous email sent out to some website. Its contents are full of half-truths...We run a very successful school as part of the Bhaktivedanta temple."

 

But the information, regardless of whether or not it is anonymous, is believed by many, including one Gurukuli Dasa - it is assumed no relation to Gauri - and a former member of ISKCON's Vrindavan ashram in India. He has said in an article on the web that: "Ashram teacher Gauri Dasa used to beat the kids with slaps and sticks".

 

But, as Jay Dilip Lhakani, who is the co-ordinator of Vivekananda Centre, an academic body that promotes Hindu studies in schools in Britain, pointed out: "None of the allegations against Gauri Dasa have been proven, but ISKCON has a poor reputation due to the child-abuse lawsuits filed against it in the US".

 

And Ramesh Kallidai, secretary-general of the Hindu Forum of Britain, has, in effect, defended Gauri Dasa by saying that: "Gauri Dasa is our spiritual ambassador. We are yet to see any hard evidence against him. We are glad ISKCON is associated with the first faith school".

 

Mr. Kallidai, incidentally, is an initiated member of ISKCON. (ANI)