Guest guest Posted January 24, 2007 Report Share Posted January 24, 2007 Hello guys, I've recently got into hinduism and there is a concept i can not get my head round. This concept is of 'Brahman'. Is Brahman another name for Krsna? Is it another name for nature? Is it the formless aspect of GOD (Krsna)? Is it some energy that we think of as GOD? Are any of the above correct? Could someone please help me understand this. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 24, 2007 Report Share Posted January 24, 2007 (an excerpt from Srila Narayana Maharaja's lecture of May 19, 2004, in Badger, California) vadanti tat tattva-vidas tattvam yaj jnanam advayam brahmeti paramatmeti bhagavan iti sabdyate ["Learned transcendentalists who know the Absolute Truth call this nondual substance Brahman, Paramatma or Bhagavan." (SB 1.2.11)] The first three verses of Srimad Bhagavatam are the mangala-caranam, (auspicious invocation), and also its glorification. But this verse is the very basis of the Srimad-Bhagavatam, and in fact, the entire Bhagavatam is an explanation of this verse. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami has also said this. He has explained the Srimad-Bhagavatam on the basis of this verse, and our Guru Maharaja, Parama-pujyapada Srila Bhaktiprajnana Kesava Gosvami Maharaja, also used to do this. What is advaya-tattva? What is the meaning of the word 'advayam'? Sundara Gopala. [sundara Gopala dasa:] This verse mentions the words advaya jnana para-tattva. Tattva means truth and para means supreme or absolute. So para-tattva means Supreme Truth or Absolute Truth. Advaya means non-dual. In other words, this truth is not two or three or many – but one. There is nothing that has any existence separate or independent of that truth. [srila Narayana Maharaja:] This is important. Again. [sundara Gopala dasa:] Advaya-jnana para-tattva means that there is no object or entity, anywhere, that has any existence separate or independent of that Truth. Someone may put forward one or more of three objections. The first is "svagata-veda", the objection that, “In the transcendental form of Sri Krsna there is some duality.” In other words, Krsna has features, He has qualities and He has bodily limbs. A person may object that, “Any one of Krsna's bodily limbs is different from any other one”, but this is in fact not the case. Sri Brahma-Samhita states that unlike our material bodies, which are entirely limited, being made of gross matter, the transcendental limbs of Sri Krsna are interchangeable. In other words, with His eyes, Sri Krsna can accept the food-offering of His devotees. With any one of his senses, He can perform the function of any other sense. Srila Gurudeva has explained the analogy of a small cow or calf made of sugar. This calf or cow has features, but every part of it is made of condensed sugar. Sri Krsna is raso vai saha (fully consisting of transcendental mellows). From this sutra, raso vai saha, we can see that there is no duality in Sri Krsna – in any of His qualities or limbs, or in any of the variety that He shows in his transcendental features. The next objection is "svajatiya veda". This is the objection that, “Sri Krsna and His various avataras are different from each other.” There seems to be duality. There is Sri Nrsimhadeva, Sri Varahadeva and so many other incarnations. Someone may say, "These are different. There is duality here." The moon at different phases may appear to be different. Its shape will appear to be different. At a certain time, when the moon is new, it is very thin and small. It will eventually grow to a full moon, and then wane again. In the same way, the various avataras of Sri Krsna display certain qualities of Sri Krsna, but Svayam Bhagavan Vrajendra-nandana Sri Krsna (the original form of Krsna as the son of Nanda Maharaja in Vrndavana) displays all qualities to their maximum. The next objection, "vijatiya-veda", is the objection that, “There are so many things in existence, in this world and out of this world, and they are in categories that are different from each other.” The jiva, for instance, seems to be different from matter. Many different categories of existence appear to be different from each other. Someone may say, "Here there is duality." But Srila Jiva Gosvami explains in his Sri Tattva-Sandarba that if two things have the same origin and they don't conflict with each other, it may then be said that they are one. In this world it does appear that things conflict with each other; but this is actually illusion, and that illusion comes from the tendency to want to enjoy matter. Actually, everything is fully under the direction of Sri Krsna. Nothing conflicts with anything. If there is any conflict, it is merely a conflict with our own desire to enjoy this world. So, these three objections have no standing, and the absolute non-duality, the non-duality of the Absolute Truth, is thereby established. [Madhava Maharaja:] Srila Gurudeva has said that this verse is the basis of the entire Srimad Bhagavatam: vadanti tat tattva-vidas tattvam yaj jnanam advayam brahmeti paramatmeti bhagavan iti sabdyate ["Learned transcendentalists who know the Absolute Truth call this nondual substance Brahman, Paramatma or Bhagavan." (Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.2.11)] As you have heard from Sripad Sundara Gopala prabhu, “advaya” means non-dual, and “para-tattva” means Supreme Truth. He is "without second," but that does not mean that He is alone. Rather it means that no one is equal to Him, what to speak of being greater than Him. He is asamitisaya, asamaurdhva, and anurdhasamana. These three words have the same meaning – no one is equal to Him and no one is greater than Him – and they are mentioned in relation to advaya-jnana para-tattva. Sriman Mahaprabhu told Sri Sanatana Gosvami: krsnera svarupa-vicara suna, sanatana advaya-jnana-tattva, vraje vrajendra-nandana ["O Sanatana, please hear about the eternal form of Lord Krsna. He is the Absolute Truth, devoid of duality but present in Vrndavana as the son of Nanda Maharaja. (Madhya 20.153)] This consideration is called tattva-gata vicara. Vicara means consideration. The other consideration is called rasa-gata vicara. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu heard from Raya Ramananda: `krsnera svarupa' kaha `radhara svarupa' `rasa' kon tattva, `prema'--kon tattva-rupa ["Kindly explain the transcendental features of Krsna and Srimati Radharani. Also explain the truth of transcendental mellows and the transcendental form of love of Godhead.” (Madhya 8.119)] When Raya Ramananda replied, he was speaking with regard to rasa-gata vicara, and Sriman Mahaprabhu replied to Srila Sanatana Gosvami on tattva-gata vicara. In this verse of Srimad Bhagavatam, "Vedanti tat tattva vidas…" the consideration of tattva-gata is being discussed, although rasa is also there. So there are three features: Brahma (Brahman), Paramatma and Bhagavan. When Bhagavan is situated in all His power – but hiding this and only allowing something to manifest from His cit, potency, that is called Brahma. Brahma is the most distant reflection of cit-sakti (the transcendental knowledge potency). Lord Krsna's effulgence is Brahma. No pastime is there; nothing is clear. Srila Gurudeva gave the following example in Mathura when he was discussing this sloka: Once, when Vasudeva Maharaja was performing a yajna, and Sri Narada Rsi was descending there from a Vaikuntha planet. At first, everybody present thought that a light was coming. They could not understand that it was Narada. After that, when Narada Rsi came a little closer, everyone could understand further, that he was some kind of human being. Still, the situation was not clear. When he finally came down, everybody understood that he was Narada Rsi. The first vision was not clear. It was only light: Similarly Brahma is only the most distant reflection of cit, and Paramatma is the combination of sat and cit. He has no pastimes like Bhagavan. Bhagavan is complete – sat-cit-ananda (the embodiment of eternity, bliss and knowledge). This Bhagavan is svagata-veda-rahit, as Sundara Gopala explained. We have many limbs on our body. Krsna also has various limbs, but in His body there is no difference between one limb and another. In this connection Srila Gurudeva has given an example. Once the king of Jagannatha Puri invaded Vidyanagara in South India, and he brought the Deities of Radha Kanta, Saksi-Gopala and Bhanda Ganesh back to Puri. At first, the king kept Saksi-gopala in the Jagannatha temple. One day Jagannatha-deva came in a dream and said, "O King, from where have you brought this Thakura? Since He arrived, He has been eating everything, and I have been fasting completely – as if it was Nirjala Ekadasi. Please take him out, to another place." Gopala is a little boy, so Saksi-gopala can crawl very quickly on His knees, hands and elbows. Whenever an offering of foodstuffs comes to the door of the altar room, even before it is placed on the altar, He runs there and eats everything." So Sri Bhagavan can eat by His eyes, He can walk by His eyes, and He can do anything by any limb of his body. Lord Brahmaji has said in Sri Brahma-Samhita: angani yasya sakalendriya-vrtti-manti pasyanti panti kalayanti ciram jaganti ananda-cinmaya-sad-ujjvala-vigrahasya govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami ["I worship Govinda, the primeval Lord, whose transcendental form is full of bliss, truth, substantiality and is thus full of the most dazzling splendor. Each of the limbs of that transcendental figure possesses in Himself, the full-fledged functions of all the organs, and eternally sees, maintains and manifests the infinite universes, both spiritual and mundane." (Sri Brahma-samhita 5.32)] By any limb of His body, He can do the job of any other limb. Any limb can do anything. Svagata-veda-rahit. There is no difference between Krsna and His body, and there is no difference between one part of His body and another. Svajatiya means the same type. God has many incarnations. Though externally they seem different, with different features, they are not. By tattva-gata vicara, the considerations of established philosophical truths, all the incarnations are krsna-tattva. We offer tulasi leaves and flowers to the lotus feet of Krsna. In the same way, we can offer tulasi to the feet of Visnu-tattva. They are svajatiya-veda-rahit – of the same type. There is no difference. Vijatiya-veda-rahit. There is cit-jagat (the spiritual world) and jada-jagat (the material world). They both depend on Krsna, so they have no independence or different existence. Thus, Bhavagan is svagata-veda rahit, svajatiya-veda rahit and vijatiya-veda rahit. [syamarani dasi:] At the beginning of the Krsna consciousness movement in the West, when we were all very brand new devotees, in order to help us understand this, our Srila Prabhupada gave us some very simple analogies. One analogy is that of a mountain. When you see a mountain from very far away, it looks like a cloud. When you get closer you see it is something green, and when you get very close you see all the grasses, plants, insects, and so much other variety – but the mountain is one. Another analogy is of a train coming into the station. From afar it looks like a light, when it comes closer it looks like a lump of iron, and when you go inside you see seats, posters, poles, newspapers on the floor, people sitting, etc. The third analogy is of the sun. When the sun is seen from very far away, it seems like a glow, a light. When you look more closely, you see the sun-disc, which is over everyone’s head, whether a person is in India or America or anywhere else. If you get very close and go on the sun planet itself, you can see the great varieties on the sun and even talk to the sun-god. So, these are three very simple analogies. [srila Narayana Maharaja:] We have discussed and explained this verse in various ways, and it can be understood very simply. Tattva-vidas means those who know tattva: krsna-tattva, jiva-tattva, maya-tattva, bhakti-tattva, rasa-tattva, radha-tattva and all other kinds of tattva. In this connection, “vidas” means “to know factually”. “To know” means that they have actually realized these tattvas. Such tattva-vidas are not like you, who are only speaking. Advayam means the Supreme Truth, and I will explain this in very easy language so that you can understand it. There are not many Gods. The Hindus, Buddhists, Christians, Muslims, Jews and others do not worship different Supreme Gods. There is only one God. Due to the various pronunciations and languages of different places, it may thus appear that there are many Gods or Truths. But there is really only one highest established Truth. The devotees here have explained this fact very well, and I will now explain it in a very easy way. We do not see the Supreme Lord here. Where is He? An unrealized person sees so many other persons, so many countries, so many trees, so many mountains, so many snakes, aquatics and entities who live in the air. We see only one sun, but really there are billions of suns in the billions of universes. The existence of these entities, objects and universes is not separate from the Highest Truth, Vrajendra-nandana Syamasundara. They are not independent. Even Lord Nrsimhadeva and Lord Narayana are not independent. They all depend on Lord Krsna. What we are seeing and experiencing is not directly Sri Krsna, but at the same time it is not other than Him. All have come from Lord Krsna’s power. Sakti-saktiman abheda – Krsna and His power are non-different. Krsna is saktiman, (the possessor of all power) and Srimati Radhika is His sakti, power. The supreme power is Srimati Radhika, whose saktiman is Krsna, and there is no difference between Them. When Krsna wishes or desires anything, at once, in a moment, His power will fulfill His desire. He easily creates millions upon millions of universes, and many millions upon millions of jivas in 8,400,000 kinds of species of life – but none of them have any independent existence. Even sakti has no separate or independent existence. There is only one Truth, and that is Lord Krsna; so He is advaya-jnana para-tattva. If you go to the Himalaya Mountains or the Alps, from very far away you will see them like a cloud or fog. If you go closer, you will see trees, mountains, water and so many other things. Then, when you finally reach the spot, everything can be seen. Similarly, as you will gradually begin to know all this tattva, you will first see Brahman, with no form and no qualities. Brahman is also Krsna, because there is no existence other than Him. So, first you will see Him like Brahman, second like Paramatma and third like Bhagavan. Brahmeti paramatmeti bhagavan iti sabdyate. Here, Sri Suta Gosvami has used the word “bhagavad-tattva,” and next time, in a later verse, he tells us who that bhagavad-tattva is. ete camsa-kalah pumsah krsnas tu bhagavan svayam ["All of the above-mentioned incarnations are either plenary portions or portions of the plenary portions of the Lord, but Lord Sri Krsna is the original Personality of Godhead." (Srimad-bhagavatam 1.3.28)] There may be so many Bhagavans, Gods. Rama is Bhagavan, Narayana is Bhagavan, Mathuresa Krsna, Dvarakadhisa Krsna and Goloka Krsna are all Bhagavan. But Svayam (the original and complete) Bhagavan is Vrajendra-nandana Krsna, that Krsna whose abode is Vrndavana. I have explained these truths in very clear language, so that it is easy for you to understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beggar Posted January 24, 2007 Report Share Posted January 24, 2007 THE PATH OF THE HEART Srila Sridhar Maharaj: Any question? Disciple: In the Bhagavad-gita, Krishna says: bahunam janmanam ante j–anavan mam prapadyate vasudevah sarvam iti sa mahatma sudurlabhah (Bg. 7.19) ["After many, many births, the j–ani, person in knowledge (who happens to achieve the association of My pure devotee) finally comes to understand that the whole universe of moving and stationary beings is of the nature of Vasudeva, alone, in as much all are subordinate to Vasudeva. (I, as Vasudeva am the source and substance of all that be.) Having grasped this conception, he surrenders unto Me. Know such a great soul to be extremely rare."] What exactly is the meaning, here? Srila Sridhar Maharaj: From 'brahma' conception, the different installments follow. In brahma realisation, there is a 'mass' of consciousness: 'all-consciousness'. Then, the next step will come: the consciousness is of individual character - with deeper vision, individuality is added to consciousness. There is consciousness plus individuality. Consciousness and Personality In fact, no consciousness can exist without individuality, without personality. So, the consciousness is personal: personality and consciousness, they cannot be separated, one from the other. What is differentiated from personality, that is only the halo of the personality - it is something like that. And that 'halo' - that brahma - is also the combination of minutest personality, of souls1. Substance is of two kinds: ksara, or changing, perishable; and aksara, unchanging, eternal. In the Bhagavad-gita (15:16) Lord Krishna says: ksarah sarvani bhutani - whatever we see in the changing aspect of the world, that is called ksara. And what is unchangeable is called aksara. Then, He says: yasmat ksaram atito 'ham aksarad api cottamah ato 'smi loke vede ca prathitah purusottamah (Bg 15:18) "My existence transcends both of these two substances, ksara - aksara. So, I am purusottamah - My name is 'Purusottama'. My glories are sung in the world and in the scriptures, as Purusottama, the Supreme Person." 'Purusottama' means Vasudeva. So, bahunam janmanam ante...; after many births, when the j–anis, those of the impersonal school, come to understand that the Prime Cause of the consciousness of their quest is a personal one, then they come to conceive of Vasudeva. Real Devotion - Most Rare But such j–anis are very rarely to be found. Mostly, j–anis cannot cross this line. They are lost there: ye 'nye 'ravindaksa vimukta-maninas tvayy asta-bhavad avisuddha buddhayah aruhya krcchrena param padam tatah patanty adho 'nadrta-yusmad anghrayah (SB 10:2:32) ["O lotus-eyed Lord, although non-devotees who accept severe penances and austerities to achieve the highest position may think themselves liberated, their intelligence remains impure. They simply speculate in various ways and do not seek the means to take shelter of You. Because they have no regard for Your lotus feet, they simply fall down from their position of imagined superiority into material existence again."] Generally, it is the fate of the j–anis to climb up to the highest position with great effort, and then, when they cannot grasp that 'consciousness' means 'person' - they cannot cross that understanding - they have to revert back. They have to come back, fall back. And for those who can cross this line, who can understand that: "Yes, consciousness means person - a Big Personality. I am small...;" bhakti begins there. The relation of subordination of the lower to the Higher, that comes into effect. And, sa mahatma sudurlabhah - such a person among the j–anis is very rarely to be found, who can take the positive connection of the higher aspect of life. Mostly they come back, they have to come back from there. After much penance, they climb up to that high mark, but they cannot accommodate that "the higher entity must be dealt with devotion," so they have to come back. Personality with Potency But those who realise: vasudevah sarvam iti, that Vasudeva - Purusottama - is personal, they can 'cross the line' and enter Vaikuntha, the service area proper. And there, we are told, gradually as their vision grows more and more, they can find potency on the side of the personal God. Then they become the devotees of Lakshmi-Narayana, and enter completely into Vaikuntha-seva. And in that service, we find awe, reverence; there are sastric (scriptural) rules, and also examples of the higher-realised souls, to guide them. The Search for Full Engagement And in that Vaikuntha-seva, if the soul does not find the whole of his innate nature having full engagement, there will be some sort of thirst, some inner tendency which cannot find any corresponding relation to satisfy itself. And when he feels this kind of urge from within, he has to search after another rasa2, for a purer, more friendly service than the filial service3. And ultimately the madhura-rasa service - the sweetheart's service, in consorthood - urges him to go up. It urges him to go up, and to go deeper. And gradually, by coming in contact with such (madhura-rasa) agents, he finds his own heart blossoming. And blossoming to its fullest extent, his heart takes him gradually towards Goloka Vrindavana4... (The entire text, with footnotes, is available at the 'Sri Guru Vandana' web page: www.vaisnava.com) Srila Sridhar Maharaj: Any question? Disciple: In the Bhagavad-gita, Krishna says: bahunam janmanam ante jnanavan mam prapadyate vasudevah sarvam iti sa mahatma sudurlabhah (Bg. 7.19) ["After many, many births, the jnani, person in knowledge (who happens to achieve the association of My pure devotee) finally comes to understand that the whole universe of moving and stationary beings is of the nature of Vasudeva, alone, in as much all are subordinate to Vasudeva. (I, as Vasudeva am the source and substance of all that be.) Having grasped this conception, he surrenders unto Me. Know such a great soul to be extremely rare."] What exactly is the meaning, here? Srila Sridhar Maharaj: From 'brahma' conception, the different installments follow. In brahma realisation, there is a 'mass' of consciousness: 'all-consciousness'. Then, the next step will come: the consciousness is of individual character - with deeper vision, individuality is added to consciousness. There is consciousness plus individuality. Consciousness and Personality In fact, no consciousness can exist without individuality, without personality. So, the consciousness is personal: personality and consciousness, they cannot be separated, one from the other. What is differentiated from personality, that is only the halo of the personality - it is something like that. And that 'halo' - that brahma - is also the combination of minutest personality, of souls1. Substance is of two kinds: ksara, or changing, perishable; and aksara, unchanging, eternal. In the Bhagavad-gita (15:16) Lord Krishna says: ksarah sarvani bhutani - whatever we see in the changing aspect of the world, that is called ksara. And what is unchangeable is called aksara. Then, He says: yasmat ksaram atito 'ham aksarad api cottamah ato 'smi loke vede ca prathitah purusottamah (Bg 15:18) "My existence transcends both of these two substances, ksara - aksara. So, I am purusottamah - My name is 'Purusottama'. My glories are sung in the world and in the scriptures, as Purusottama, the Supreme Person." 'Purusottama' means Vasudeva. So, bahunam janmanam ante...; after many births, when the j–anis, those of the impersonal school, come to understand that the Prime Cause of the consciousness of their quest is a personal one, then they come to conceive of Vasudeva. Real Devotion - Most Rare But such jnanis are very rarely to be found. Mostly, jnanis cannot cross this line. They are lost there: ye 'nye 'ravindaksa vimukta-maninas tvayy asta-bhavad avisuddha buddhayah aruhya krcchrena param padam tatah patanty adho 'nadrta-yusmad anghrayah (SB 10:2:32) ["O lotus-eyed Lord, although non-devotees who accept severe penances and austerities to achieve the highest position may think themselves liberated, their intelligence remains impure. They simply speculate in various ways and do not seek the means to take shelter of You. Because they have no regard for Your lotus feet, they simply fall down from their position of imagined superiority into material existence again."] Generally, it is the fate of the j–anis to climb up to the highest position with great effort, and then, when they cannot grasp that 'consciousness' means 'person' - they cannot cross that understanding - they have to revert back. They have to come back, fall back. And for those who can cross this line, who can understand that: "Yes, consciousness means person - a Big Personality. I am small...;" bhakti begins there. The relation of subordination of the lower to the Higher, that comes into effect. And, sa mahatma sudurlabhah - such a person among the j–anis is very rarely to be found, who can take the positive connection of the higher aspect of life. Mostly they come back, they have to come back from there. After much penance, they climb up to that high mark, but they cannot accommodate that "the higher entity must be dealt with devotion," so they have to come back. Personality with Potency But those who realise: vasudevah sarvam iti, that Vasudeva - Purusottama - is personal, they can 'cross the line' and enter Vaikuntha, the service area proper. And there, we are told, gradually as their vision grows more and more, they can find potency on the side of the personal God. Then they become the devotees of Lakshmi-Narayana, and enter completely into Vaikuntha-seva. And in that service, we find awe, reverence; there are sastric (scriptural) rules, and also examples of the higher-realised souls, to guide them. The Search for Full Engagement And in that Vaikuntha-seva, if the soul does not find the whole of his innate nature having full engagement, there will be some sort of thirst, some inner tendency which cannot find any corresponding relation to satisfy itself. And when he feels this kind of urge from within, he has to search after another rasa2, for a purer, more friendly service than the filial service3. And ultimately the madhura-rasa service - the sweetheart's service, in consorthood - urges him to go up. It urges him to go up, and to go deeper. And gradually, by coming in contact with such (madhura-rasa) agents, he finds his own heart blossoming. And blossoming to its fullest extent, his heart takes him gradually towards Goloka Vrindavana4... (The entire text, with footnotes, is available at the 'Sri Guru Vandana' web page: www.vaisnava.com) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted January 24, 2007 Report Share Posted January 24, 2007 Hello guys, I've recently got into hinduism and there is a concept i can not get my head round. This concept is of 'Brahman'. Is Brahman another name for Krsna? Is it another name for nature? Is it the formless aspect of GOD (Krsna)? Is it some energy that we think of as GOD? Are any of the above correct? Could someone please help me understand this. Thanks. Brahman is a subordinate aspect of Krsna in the same way that the sunlight is subordinate to the sun. Krsna is the energetic and Brahman is his energy. Brahman comes from Krsna, Krsna does not come from Brahman. Everyone knows that sunlight comes from the sun and not the other way around. Same difference between Krsna and the Brahman.That sequence is very important to remember. Brahman is sometimes a name for Krsna as in "the Supreme Brahman." But you and I are also Brahman. Because we come from Krsna we share His nature in minute degrees. Just like the photon of sunlight has the same qualities as the sun but minutely. We are photons of Krsna, minute Brahman's, whereas Krsna is the Supreme Brahman. Brahman or spirit is our substance as well as Krsna's. In this we find our oneness with Krsna. By nature I think you mean material nature. Material nature comes from Brahman due to Krsna's agitation of Brahman. Like the potter who makes a clay pot. The potter takes some formless substance called clay and molds it to form a pot. Then he may paint that pot some combination of red, yellow and blue. When he is finished the pot looks nothing like the clay from which it was formed. This is a basic example. Yes, you are correct, it is the formless aspect of Krsna. The Brahman effulgence is the aura of Krsna. And because He is unlimited naturally His aura is also without limit. Because he is pure goodness his aura is also pure goodness. Yes we can think of this energy as God but a higher conception includes realization of the person behind his aura. We should never think of the energy without also thinking of the energetic source of that energy. Just like we realize that when we experience the sunlight we know it comes from the sun globe. All of the above are correct but now we need to refine the understanding of each. By reading the books of Srila Prabhupada this will all become more and more clear to us. Hare Krsna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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