Guest guest Posted January 22, 2007 Report Share Posted January 22, 2007 advaitin, "advaitins" <advaitins wrote: > > The Sanskrit term that is used for our present condition is jIva, the > "embodied Self." It literally just means "living" or "alive" but is > often equated with the idea of an individual soul as encountered in > Christianity. The word jIvAtman, the "personal or individual soul" is > also sometimes used (as opposed to paramAtman, the supreme spirit). In > the book 'advaita bodha dIpaka' (dIpa is a lamp, providing bodha, > knowledge, through its illumination), this is explained as follows: > Namaste, It is my understanding that individual soul (ofcourse in this phenomenal world plane of existence) is 5 senses and the mind carrying the impressions of previous births. Gita chapter 15 verses 8-9 are very relevant here 15:8 And when the one who rules the body departs, he draws to himself the 5 senses and the mind, the sixth, obtaining in the body. 15:9 Presiding over the ear, eye, sense of touch, taste and smell, and the mind, this person (jiva) experiences the sense objects. In verse 9 above, who is the experiencer ? Is it the mind ? In the light of the above can we say that jiva is simply a beginningless mind + 5 senses. There is a very interesting verse in the Bhagavatam which describes the subtle body (linga shareer) Bhagavatam Skanda4:Chapter 29:Verse 70 "So long as the beginningless linga shareer, which is an agglomeration of the buddhi, mind, senses and sense objects -all products of the gunas -persists, so long will the sense of 'I' and 'mine' also persist. " It seems like jiva is a synonym for linga shareer (subtle body)? Any comments ? regards, Om Namah Sivaya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2007 Report Share Posted January 22, 2007 advaitin, "mahadevadvaita" <mahadevadvaita wrote: > > Bhagavatam Skanda4:Chapter 29:Verse 70 > > "So long as the beginningless linga shareer, which is an agglomeration > of the buddhi, mind, senses and sense objects -all products of the gunas > -persists, so long will the sense of 'I' and 'mine' also persist. " > > > It seems like jiva is a synonym for linga shareer (subtle body)? Any > comments ? > > regards, > > Om Namah Sivaya > Namaste Mahad-ji et al, It is the 'I' thought or ego that is the first thought and all thoughts attach to that like on the string of a sutra or mala. So in that way there can be no linga sharira without the ego...Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2007 Report Share Posted January 23, 2007 advaitin, "mahadevadvaita" <mahadevadvaita wrote: > Bhagavatam Skanda4:Chapter 29:Verse 70 > > "So long as the beginningless linga shareer, which is an agglomeration > of the buddhi, mind, senses and sense objects -all products of the gunas > -persists, so long will the sense of 'I' and 'mine' also persist. " > > > It seems like jiva is a synonym for linga shareer (subtle body)? Any > comments ? > > regards, > > Om Namah Sivaya > ShrIgurubhyo namaH Namaste Mahadevadvaita ji, The linga shareera that has been defined above, is by itself inert. That by itself is not the jiva. Jiva is : Pure Consciousness in association with/identification with ling shareera. So long as this association continues, there will be transmigration. It will end when sadhana fructifies and liberation ensues. It is only then that the association/identification is rent asunder, freeing the Pure Consciousness from the linga shareera. Then, there is none to be called a 'jiva'. The 'jiva' has come to realize that it is Brahman, ever liberated, never bound. Apart from that, a jiva, in order to be called so, has to have a gross body too. In the absence of this, there will be no way he can reap the fruits of his karma. The jiva remains without the gross body only when the subtle body transmigrates from this body untill it takes on another body. The Vivekachudamani defines the linga shareera thus: 99. Listen – this subtle body, called also the Linga body, is produced out of the elements before their subdividing and combining with each other, is possessed of latent impressions and causes the soul to experience the fruits of its past actions. It is a beginningless superimposition on the soul brought on by its own ignorance.// Why is this called 'linga shareera'? In the following link, a pdf document, when you go to verse 99, you can read a very detailed commentary, bringing out several important aspects of the linga shareera, by Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati SwaminaH of Sringeri. You can also benefit from the commentary of the just preceding few verses, also dealing with the subtle body. http://www.srisharada.com/Vivekafinal/94-109.pdf Warm regards, subbu Om Tat Sat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 Namaste Sri Hanudatta Atreya, This is with reference to your questions below. Your questions are based on the following assumptions: 1. The universe exists and we exist 2. Consciousness has actually taken on gross bodies and is now striving for liberation 3. There is something called transmigration and there was a time when transmigration did not exist. Advaita-Vedanta debunks these assumptions and says that all of these are only conventions (not real in their own right) superimposed on the Self. Hence the Self alone is real. Practically speaking, most of us are far away from breaking through this conventional reality, hence the shaastra-s provide conventional explanations to satisy us. Hence, concepts of transmigration and 'liilaa' are also conventions. Even thought, language and our indivdual ego-s are only conventions. dhanyavAdaH Ramesh On 22/01/07, Hanudatta Atreya <hsatreya > wrote: > > As given in the Vivek Chudamani (quoted below), a description of the Jiva and its transmigration is nicely given. > However, why is there is transmigration in the first place? > How did this concept come into existence before nothing existed? > Why does the consciousness take the gross body in the first place and then strive for liberation? > In other words, why is there a need for us and the universe to exist in the first place? > > I have read books/articles which say that this is due to the "Lilaa" of the Supreme Being. > > But is such an explaination given because there is a singularity and hence we don't know the answer. > > Or is that on realization of the self, that question automatically gets answered. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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