Karma

[complexity]

Hi,

How can we go about finding some real evidence, support or proof for the law of karma ?

 

If you do a complete (or at least extensive) analysis of every memory you have of your own life can you find some particular action you've done such that later you experienced a similar result to the original action AND with the additional requirement that this action/effect was something uncommon ?

[theist]

 

Hi,

How can we go about finding some real evidence, support or proof for the law of karma ?

 

If you do a complete (or at least extensive) analysis of every memory you have of your own life can you find some particular action you've done such that later you experienced a similar result to the original action AND with the additional requirement that this action/effect was something uncommon ?

 

Proof of karma ? Interesting idea complexity. One problem I see with relying upon the mind alone to accomplish this is the limitations of our minds to do such an analysis. How could we ever trust the results and be sure that we got everything right?

 

Many facts in life we have to come to understand by hearing from a higher source which is privy to the truth of things beyond our sense perception. We can hear what they have to say on the matter of karma and try to understand it as best we can. If the source we are hearing from genuinely has knowledge of these higher things then they can impart that knowledge to us and as always with the grace of the Lord in the heart that knowledge can become a realization of the truth of the matter.

 

Does this make sense?

[anadi]

 

Hi,

How can we go about finding some real evidence, support or proof for the law of karma ?

PramANa or evidence is the means to determine the authenticity of an object (gross or subtle).

PramAtA yenArthaM pramiNoti tad eva pramANam.

Srimat JIva GosvAmIpAda writes in Sarva-saMvAdinI:

 

yadyapi pratyakSAnumAna-zabdArSopamANArthApatty-abhAva-sambhavaitihya-ceSTAkhyAni daza pramANAni viditAni, tathApi bhrama-pramAda-vipralipsA-karaNApATava-doSa-rahita-vacanAtmakaH zabda eva mUla-pramANam –

 

“Generally there are ten types of evidence, namely pratyakSa, anumAna, zabda, ArSa, upamAna, arthApatti, abhAva, sambhava, aitihya, and ceSTA. zabda, or zruti, however, is accepted as the most authentic evidence because it is free from the four defects of bhrama (illusion), pramAda (confusion), vipralipsA (cheating) and karaNApATava (defect of the senses).

 

We will briefly explain how the other nine types of evidence are not wholly dependable.

 

PratyakSa: The knowledge directly perceived by the five sense organs, namely eye, ear, tongue, nose, and skin, and the mind, is known as pratyakSa. The knowledge perceived through these senses can never be reliable because of the above mentioned four defects of delusion, imperfect senses, etc. The reality of an object cannot thus be known by pratyakSa. For example, a magician makes things that do not exist in reality appear real to the senses. How can transcendental things then be proven through the material senses?

AnumAna: According to nyAya-zAstras, knowledge inferred from our common observations is known as anumAna. The usual example given is girir vahnimAn dhUmAt, “Since I see smoke on the mountain, I can infer that it is on fire.” We have all seen, “Where there is smoke, there is fire.” Thus when we see smoke coming from behind the mountain we presume that there is a fire on the mountain. But since smoke may also be visible even after the fire has been extinguished by rain, the above presumption is faulty. AnumAna or presumption is thus also defective.

 

ArSa: The sayings of the sages (RSis) are known as ArSa. Due to the differences in the theories of different sages, ArSa is also unacceptable as a valid pramANa.

 

[yogesh]

I remember reading from the introduction of Bhagavad-Gita I will quote directly:-

 

"So the Lord, the living entity, material nature and time are all interrelated and are all eternal. However the other item karma is not eternal.

 

The effects of karma may be very old indeed. We are suffering or enjoying the results of our activities from time immemorial, but we can change the results of our karma, or our activity and the change depends on the perfection of our knowladge.

 

We are engaged in various activities. Undoubtedly we do not know what sort of activities we should adopt to gain relief from actions and reactions of all these activities, but this is also explained in the Bhagavad-Gita.

 

As the soul migrates, he suffers the actions and reactions of his past activities. These activities can be changed when the living entity is in the mode of goodness, in sanity, and understands what sort of activities he should adopt.

 

If he does so, then all the actions and reactions of his past activities can be changed. Consequently, karma is not eternal."

 

So to bottle (explain) karma (in other words to make it tangible) is like trying to bottle the wind.

 

I hope this goes some way to answer a complex question.

 

Now off the topic.......

 

The Bhagavad-Gita to me is like a shining lamp that dispells all darkness that brings doubts to my mind.

 

The Bhagavad Gita is so amazing it is alive. Just read one verse a day it is so incredible and powerfull!!!

Any questions you may have it seems to know your mind The Lord/God is Bhagavad-Gita and the answers are right there.

 

Thank You may seem like a very small word but to Sirla Prabhupada and to those devotees who distributes these wonderfull books there is no other words.

 

Jay Sirla Prabhupada

 

Hare Krsna

[Kuvalayesha]

Newton's Third Law of Motion:

For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.

 

This is not just a law of physics but a law of nature. We see this easily in the gross physical plane when we push against something, it pushes back. However, as we rise to more and more subtle forces it gets a little more difficult to see the reaction. Take for example smoking... Some people are still convinced that there will be no ill effects to such a habit. It may take years to suffer the reaction. Mental and emotional forces are even more subtle and their effects may take lifetimes to reap. It is through meditation and developing our intuitive nature that we become more sensitive to these forces and more easily able to see the potential effects our actions will have.

 

God is your own real inner Being, Consciousness,

Delight. Who lives in God, has real freedom. When you are in God, have

experience of God, you have unlimited freedom, real freedom, and no

 

other freedom is worth the name. Ultimately Karma does not belong to you as it does not belong to God...

Om Namah Sivaya

[gHari]

Put your hand in a fire. You will experience immediate karma. All karma is quite similarly God's mercy.

[Vedanta]

 

Proof of karma ? Interesting idea complexity. One problem I see with relying upon the mind alone to accomplish this is the limitations of our minds to do such an analysis. How could we ever trust the results and be sure that we got everything right?

 

Many facts in life we have to come to understand by hearing from a higher source which is privy to the truth of things beyond our sense perception. We can hear what they have to say on the matter of karma and try to understand it as best we can. If the source we are hearing from genuinely has knowledge of these higher things then they can impart that knowledge to us and as always with the grace of the Lord in the heart that knowledge can become a realization of the truth of the matter.

 

Does this make sense?

Proof of Karma - Your existence as human birth is the real proof of karma. The law of karma cannot be seen - only when the law acts you can experience it. The law itself is the principle and cannot be seen. Same in the case of law of Karma - The law cannot be seen only its actions is seen. that is human birth.

 

Make sense.

[theist]

Yes but that only makes sense to one who firmly believes in reincarnation. I am one of those. But in regards to the question posed there is no way of confirming that what we experience is the results of our past actions from within the confines of our minds and memories. For knowledge beyond our immediate sense perception we need to hear from those who have an advanced understanding of the topic.

[anadi]

 

Yes but that only makes sense to one who firmly believes in reincarnation. ... For knowledge beyond our immediate sense perception we need to hear from those who have an advanced understanding of the topic.

 

As long as one does not experience the knowledge he acquired, his knowledge is called dry.

On the spiritual platform his bhajana is lifeless.

 

 

Direct experience

Past-life therapy

 

 

During the last 25 years past-life therapy has evolved into an independent form of psychotherapy with its own models and techniques. We owe the development of this therapy especially to Netherton, Dethlefsen and in the Netherlands Ten Dam (Bontenbal, 1985). According to the author they have developed specific methods for induction, coaching, integrating and transforming methods, with a focus on the responsibility for and understanding of the client for his own process. On the basis of the insights of Ten Dam, Netherton and Dethlefsen the Dutch School of Past-Life Therapy (SRN) has developed a model for therapy, 'the Holographic Model', described by Bontenbal (1985).

 

Past-life therapy can be described as 'a form of psychotherapy which uses regression to, or fantasies about previous lives. Fantasies about the past are used as though they concern possible historical reality' (Cladder, 1983, p.172). Bontenbal (1985) mentions the basic assumption of past-life therapy: 'problems, whether they are primarily experienced mentally, emotionally, physically or spiritually have their basis in undigested experiences and these experiences can be located, exposed and released by reliving them consciously' (p.5). Ten Dam (1989) describes past-life therapy as 'regression therapy which accepts that by reliving situations which caused the initial trauma, experiences obviously stemming from past lives and even afterdeath and prebirth experiences appear' (p.9). Past-life therapy is also defined as a form of psychotherapy which distinguishes itself from most other forms of psychotherapy, because apart from the clients current life memories, birth and prenatal phase included, which appear during the therapeutic process, also those memories of so- called [the author has some fear in using the therm]past lives are regarded as material suitable for therapeutic treatment (Van der Maesen, 1995).

One of the institutes for past-life therapy operating in the Netherlands is the School for Past-Life Therapy (SRN). Graduates of this two-year course can become members of the Dutch Association of Past-Life Therapy (NVRT) (150 members currently).

 

source: http://www.reincarnatietherapie.nl/daptgtsc.html

 

Check this too.

http://scholar.google.com/scholar%3Fq%3DReincarnation+regression+past+live+therapy+%26hl%3Dde%26oi%3Dscholart

[Guest guest]

 

Yes but that only makes sense to one who firmly believes in reincarnation. I am one of those. But in regards to the question posed there is no way of confirming that what we experience is the results of our past actions from within the confines of our minds and memories. For knowledge beyond our immediate sense perception we need to hear from those who have an advanced understanding of the topic.

 

There are three different types of karma recognized.

 

1. Sanchita = sun total of all karma accumulated from past lives

 

2. Prarabdha = the portion of sanchita karma that has begun to take effect in the present life.

 

3. Kriyamana - The Karma that is being created as we write here. These are adding to one's sanchita karma.

 

Liberation from the cyle of life and death will happen when sanchita karma = 0.

 

Om

[Guest guest]

There may be fault is your logic. How can a non-zero number become 0. Therefore how will the karma in point 1 below ever become zero?

 

 

There are three different types of karma recognized.

 

1. Sanchita = sun total of all karma accumulated from past lives

 

2. Prarabdha = the portion of sanchita karma that has begun to take effect in the present life.

 

3. Kriyamana - The Karma that is being created as we write here. These are adding to one's sanchita karma.

 

Liberation from the cyle of life and death will happen when sanchita karma = 0.

 

Om

[Guest guest]

 

There may be fault is your logic. How can a non-zero number become 0. Therefore how will the karma in point 1 below ever become zero?

 

Sanchita karma (1) is distributed into each life as Prarabdha karma (2) which gets worked out during that life. While (3) adds to (1), (2) will take way from (1).

 

According to the Gita, a person engaged in the right action or Yoga or devotion will not create (3). Hence (1) will not increase and will eventually reduce to 0 as parts of it get burnt away as Prarabdha Karma.