If God is all powerful...

[brajeshwara das]

This isn't really a joke I guess, but George Carlin's old Catholic priest skit, asking 'Father, if the Lord is all powerful, can he make a rock so big that even He can't lift it?'

 

Just wondering if anyone has any thoughts on this. I'm guessing it has an achintya bheda abheda answer

[Avinash]

It is not a joke, but since you asked: -

Sri Prabhpada was once asked the same question and he said, "Yes, God can make such a stone."

After a small pause he further said, "Then He will lift it."

 

Frankly speaking I never understood this answer. If God is all powerful, then it is not possible for any stone to exist, which He cannot lift.

 

However, consider the following two possibilities: -

1. God can make such a stone.

2. God cannot make such a stone.

 

If we consider the first possibility, then it may be argued that God is not all powerful because there can be a stone, which God cannot lift. But Sri Prabhupada's answer indicates that God can make such a stone but then He will lift it. As I said I do not understand this answer. But there are many things which I do not understand. So, I cannot discard the answer just because I do not understand. According to the answer, God can make such a stone and He is still all powerful.

 

If we consider second possibility, then it may be argued that we have found some limitation in God; there is something which He cannot do. But I beg to disagree. If God cannot make a stone which He cannot lift, then it does not say anything negative about God. Consider a mMathematician. You ask him to give a number less than 5 and greater than 20. He cannot give because such a number does not exist. Will you say that the mathematician's inability to find such a number shows limitation of his knowledge? I don't think so. The conditions 'greater than 5' and 'less than 20' are contradictory. It is not a limitation of anybody if he cannot satisfy contradictory conditions. Likewise, if God is all-powerful, then expecting Him to make a stone, which He Himself cannot lift it is expecting God to satisfy contradictory conditions (making such a stone is contradictory to His omnipotent nature). If God cannot do so, we cannot say that we have found any limitation in Him.

[brajeshwara das]

I was thinking of the lilas where a demon is awarded a boon like Ravana where no god or demon can kill him, the Lord manifests these seeming limitations on Himself for the purpose of His lila, because he wants to come as Rama for example and show some mood or teach some lesson, whatever is His desire.

 

So no laws bind Him but he has His play, He can make a stone that is so big even He can't lift it, but because He is beyond all laws He can break that law and then lift it. That seems to me what Srila Swami Maharaj is saying there. Inconcievable to my puny mind, I guess but I'm approaching the question from a mundane mentality. I just like the question Anyone else?

[Guest guest]

 

I was thinking of the lilas where a demon is awarded a boon like Ravana where no god or demon can kill him, the Lord manifests these seeming limitations on Himself for the purpose of His lila, because he wants to come as Rama for example and show some mood or teach some lesson, whatever is His desire.

 

So no laws bind Him but he has His play, He can make a stone that is so big even He can't lift it, but because He is beyond all laws He can break that law and then lift it. That seems to me what Srila Swami Maharaj is saying there. Inconcievable to my puny mind, I guess but I'm approaching the question from a mundane mentality. I just like the question Anyone else?

 

I think I'm of a similar mindset to you. God, the nirguna, unmanifest form can make a stone that God in some of His lilas may be unable to lift. However in other lilas, if God in His formless or unmanifest aspect so chooses, He can manifest Himself with enough power to lift even that unliftable stone.

[Guest guest]

Prabhupada answered that question. He said 'Of course he can! And then he would lift it.'

[Sridas]

Everything is accomodated in the Absolute, if anything were outside then He wouldn't be Absolute. If He is simultaneously one and different, then He can inconceivably lift and not lift, but don't ask me how, it's a half unanswerable question.

I bet He can play Karatals with one Karatal too.

[brajeshwara das]

 

I bet He can play Karatals with one Karatal too.

[brajeshwara das]

So Krishna's divine movements are kept in reserve by His sweet will: "All Rights Reserved." We want to search for some law above His sweet will, but this is inconsistent, self-contradictory. On the one side we say that Krishna moves by His own sweet will, but on another side we try to find some law governing His movement. This is a contradiction.

—Loving Search For The Lost Servant

[bija]

Can God Create a Stone which He cannot Lift

Some of the various arguments for atheism claim that the concept of God is

incoherent, that there are logical problems with the existence of such a

being. Perhaps the best known of these is the paradox of the stone: Can God

create a stone so heavy that he cannot lift it?

Either God can create such a stone or he can’t. If he can’t, the argument

goes, then there is something that he cannot do, namely create the stone,

and therefore he is not omnipotent.

If he can, it continues, then there is also something that he cannot do,

namely lift the stone, and therefore he is not omnipotent.

Either way, then, God is not omnipotent. A being that is not omnipotent,

though, is not God. God, therefore, does not exist.

Problems With the Paradox of the Stone

Although this simple argument may appear compelling at first glance, there

are some fundamental problems with it. Before identifying these problems,

however, it is necessary to make clear what is meant by “omnipotence”.

Christian philosophers have understood omnipotence in different ways. Reni

Descartes though of omnipotence as the ability to do absolutely anything.

According to Descartes, God can do the logically impossible; he can make

square circles, and he can make 2 + 2 = 5.

Thomas Aquinas had a narrower conception of omnipotence. According to

Aquinas, God is able to do anything possible; he can part the red sea, and

he can restore the dead to life, but he cannot violate the laws of logic and

mathematics in the way that Descartes thought that he could.

If Descartes’ conception of omnipotence is correct, then any attempt to

disprove God’s existence using logic is hopeless. If God can do the

logically impossible, then he can both create a stone so heavy that he

cannot lift it, and lift it, and so can do all things. Yes, there’s a

contradiction in this, but so what? God can, on this understanding of

omnipotence, make contradictions true.

Descartes’ understanding of omnipotence therefore doesn’t seem to be

vulnerable to the paradox of the stone. Descartes can answer the question

Yes without compromising divine omnipotence.

Aquinas’ understanding of omnipotence, which is more popular than that of

Descartes, also survives the paradox of the stone. For if God exists then he

is a being that can lift all stones. A stone that is so heavy that God

cannot lift it is therefore an impossible object. According to Aquinas’

understanding of omnipotence, remember, God is able to do anything possible,

but not anything impossible, and creating a stone that God cannot lift is

something impossible.

Aquinas can therefore answer the question No without compromising divine

omnipotence.

The paradox of the stone, then, can be resolved; it fails to show that there

is an incoherence in the theistic conception of God, and so fails to

demonstrate that God does not exist. (By an unknown Author)

[riih.qarojamahoamaan]

Lift The Stone From Where? Do You Mean From The Earth? But God Lifts The Whole Earth. The Earth Is The Heaviest For Us People, But God Is Mother And Father, So He Is Heavier Than The Earth.

Another Point, The Kingdom Of Heavens Is For The Earth, Because Earth Is In Heavens, Swimming In Emptiness As A Space Ship.

[Guest guest]

In the first place is there a "stone", second is there a "creation"...

The answer is simple, there is no stone and there is no creation ....