brajeshwara das Posted January 30, 2007 Report Share Posted January 30, 2007 I was just wondering how the jiva soul is with a plant that has a clone taken from it, or has a graft added to it? Is the soul split when a clone or graft taken from it? There are trees that for generations are only growing from one root source (called cultivars) and this just bewilders me. So thousands, millions of trees grown from cuttings off one specimen. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaea Posted January 30, 2007 Report Share Posted January 30, 2007 Yes, why not? The grafts have thousands of plant cells, each with their individual soul. Same as your body - 1 trillion LIVING cells make up your body, each with their souls. And why stop there? Perhaps we can go even more microscopic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2007 Report Share Posted January 30, 2007 Srila Sridhar Maharaj explained about this type of issue in his discussions about Subjective Evolution of Consciousness. Take a look at the old, original "Gaurdian of Devotion" published by Bhakti Madhava Puri Swami from New Jersey, when he was living at the Math in Nabadwip in 85. Also you can ask Akinchana Maharaj about this - you can email him or contact him through the iMonk web site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brajeshwara das Posted January 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2007 Dandabats Guest654, I will write Akinchana Maharaj right now :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brajeshwara das Posted January 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2007 Yes, why not? The grafts have thousands of plant cells, each with their individual soul. Same as your body - 1 trillion LIVING cells make up your body, each with their souls. And why stop there? Perhaps we can go even more microscopic! So each cell in my body is a separate jiva? I can understand that the various virii, bacteria etc are definitely, but is there any scriptues to support that? Are plants different in nature (like colonies?) than animal life? I once had some thought (I thought it a revelation at the time, silly me) that ant colonies were actually one conscious being, just manifest through cells that extended to separate bodies. Anyway, I don't know what I'm talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2007 Report Share Posted January 30, 2007 I once had some thought (I thought it a revelation at the time, silly me) that ant colonies were actually one conscious being, just manifest through cells that extended to separate bodies. Anyway, I don't know what I'm talking about. It's me again. This is in fact what Srila Sridhar Maharaj said things are. Take a look at the magazine "Guardian of Devotion" by Madhava Puri Maharaj. The body, mind and ego are different from the jiva soul. Mind is controlled by a Devata (demigod). A demigod is controlling flocks of birds that act as a "whole" and the jiva souls seeing the world through the eyes of individual birds are "passengers" - the soul is not the "doer" (as is explained in the Gita) - rather these passengers are witnessing the movements of material energy which is being controlled by the Devas. Souls in animal bodies are different from their bodies. The soul tries to feel the feelings of material life, like a bird tasting fruit (see the Gita). But really the soul is different from the actions of the body which are controlled by the Devas. Srila Sridhar Maharaj's presentation on this topic follows the presentation of Madvacharya of Udupi in South India. It is a very complex topic and I'm sure many people will object to this or that aspect of what I am saying. But then I must advise I will not try and argue this point with people. Take it or leave it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted January 30, 2007 Report Share Posted January 30, 2007 Yes, why not? The grafts have thousands of plant cells, each with their individual soul. Same as your body - 1 trillion LIVING cells make up your body, each with their souls. And why stop there? Perhaps we can go even more microscopic! I once had a dream that I was a quark in my last life. Seemed real, unlike a regular dream, so it must be true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brajeshwara das Posted January 31, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 It's me again. This is in fact what Srila Sridhar Maharaj said things are. Take a look at the magazine "Guardian of Devotion" by Madhava Puri Maharaj. The body, mind and ego are different from the jiva soul. Mind is controlled by a Devata (demigod). A demigod is controlling flocks of birds that act as a "whole" and the jiva souls seeing the world through the eyes of individual birds are "passengers" - the soul is not the "doer" (as is explained in the Gita) - rather these passengers are witnessing the movements of material energy which is being controlled by the Devas. Souls in animal bodies are different from their bodies. The soul tries to feel the feelings of material life, like a bird tasting fruit (see the Gita). But really the soul is different from the actions of the body which are controlled by the Devas. Srila Sridhar Maharaj's presentation on this topic follows the presentation of Madvacharya of Udupi in South India. It is a very complex topic and I'm sure many people will object to this or that aspect of what I am saying. But then I must advise I will not try and argue this point with people. Take it or leave it. Ah, so that explains a lot. I had the feeling there was 'someone' in each ant, but somehow something larger was controlling everything so I wasn't quite sure. I knew it wasn't just some chemical reaction or genetic programming. It was a very long time ago so my memory is a bit hazy, but it was a 'high' feeling experience and I was rather blown away by it all. The devata explains it! So the devata has some kind of more subtle body not contained in an ant, the devata isn't the queen for instance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 The devata explains it! So the devata has some kind of more subtle body not contained in an ant, the devata isn't the queen for instance? I also wondered about this for a long time. I understand it is the Devata and not the Queen. In Western and Platonic philosophy (which Guru Maharaj studied) they talk about how particular types of things all share certain qualities but how each individual thing, such as a dog, does not entirely contain all the features of "doggishness". A big dog and a small dog both contain the features of "dogs" but their features are in many ways different. The concept or idea (Devata) of a dog is different from any particular dog. Srila Guru Maharaj: "Although the Buddhists and atheists argue that consciousness is a material thing, I say that there is no material thing. If I am to answer the question of whether or not consciousness is produced from matter, then I shall say that nothing is material. Whatever I feel, it is only a part of consciousness. Everything is an idea. We are connected only with consciousness from the beginning to the end of our experience. Beyond consciousness, we cannot go. Everything is an idea: the stone, the tree, the house, the body - all are ideas. The plane of consciousness is very much closer to us than we perceive. We are involved only with ideas. Everything within our experience is only part of our mind. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brajeshwara das Posted January 31, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 Guest654, thank you for answering so nicely, I have a lot to contemplate. I'm reading Subjective Evolution again and I'll try to look for some insight there. As I understand it there is some sort of giant ant colony in the US that spans states, could this possibly be ruled by one devata? So many jivas under the control of one demigod. Mind-boggling! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 As I understand it there is some sort of giant ant colony in the US that spans states, could this possibly be ruled by one devata? So many jivas under the control of one demigod. Mind-boggling! I understand that a "species" is controlled by a Devata. And moreover that devata may have a number of associate beings that exist alongside it in the astral realm (bhuvah lokah, as in Om bhu bhuvah svah). It seems to me that ant bodies are like robot bodies controlled by their "instinct" or in other words by the prototype idea that they are subservient to. Souls in tamo-guna mindlessly follow their instincts: "Because of our memory of past tendencies, the chain of cause and effect is not broken by change of species, space, or time." Yoga sutras of Patanjali 4:8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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