Guest guest Posted January 30, 2007 Report Share Posted January 30, 2007 Is it not so that first there has to be a gradual path, and then a direct. Below are some words from different sources where only Nisargadatta seems to say it is not so ( at least when looking at several lifetimes ). ( And once again I post this, hard to find a praise of the slow path : ) Slowly slowly O mind, everything in its own pace happens; Gardner may water a hundred times, fruit arrives only in season! - Kabir Being thus awakened, Fa Da praised the Patriarch, in a transport of great joy, with the following stanza:-- The delusion that I have attained great merits by reciting the Sutra three thousand times over Is all dispelled by an utterance of the Master of Cao Xi . He who has not understood the object of a Buddha's incarnation in this world Is unable to suppress the wild passions accumulated in many lives. The three vehicles yoked by goat, deer and bullock respectively, are makeshifts only, While the three stages, Preliminary, Intermediate, and Final, in which the orthodox Dharma is expounded, are well set out, indeed! How few appreciate that within the burning house itself (i.e.,mundane existence) The King of Dharma is to be found! from <http://www.dharmaweb.org/index.php/Sutra_of_Hui_Neng:_Chapter_7:_Temperamen t_and_Circumstances> http://www.dharmaweb.org/index.php/Sutra_of_Hui_Neng:_Chapter_7:_Temperament _and_Circumstances <http://www.wisdomportal.com/Numbers/%3CA> Long after -- when enlightenment was come -- They prayed Lord Buddha touching all, and why She wore this black and gold, and stepped so proud, And the World-honored answered, "Unto me This was unknown, albeit it seemed half known; For while the wheel of birth and death turns round, Past things and thoughts, and buried lives come back. I now remember, myriad rains ago, What time I roamed Himâla's hanging woods, A tiger, with my striped and hungry kind; I, who am Buddh, couched in the kusa grass Gazing with green blinked eyes upon the herds Which pastured near and nearer to their death Round my day-lair; or underneath the stars I roamed for prey, savage, insatiable, Sniffing the paths for track of man and deer. Amid the beasts that were my fellows then, Met in deep jungle or by reedy jheel, A tigress, comeliest of the forest, set The males at war; her hide was lit with gold, Black-broidered like the veil Yasôdhara Wore for me; hot the strife waxed in that wood With tooth and claw, while underneath a neem The fair beast watched us bleed, thus fiercely wooed. And I remember, at the end she came Snarling past this and that torn forest-lord. Which I had conquered, and with fawning jaws Licked my quick-heaving flank, and with me went Into the wild with proud steps, amorously. The wheel of birth and death turns low and high." from The Light of Asia I once asked Nisargadatta Maharaj why some people, such as Ramana Maharshi, realized the self very quickly through a single act of self-inquiry, whereas others spent fifty years meditating and failed to reach the same state. I was curious to hear his answer because I knew that at this stage of his teaching career he was persistently maintaining that reincarnation did not happen. This meant that he couldn't say that people such as Sri Ramana arrived in this world with an advantage over other people who might not have done as much meditation in their previous lives. In his reply he said that some people were born with a pure 'chemical' and some were not. I think he got the 'chemical' analogy from the layer of chemicals that coats a film. From what I gathered talking to him, we are all issued with a film for our life, that is to say, a more-or-less pre-determined script that plays itself out as our lives. The quality of the chemical is determined by a coming together of all sorts of factors that are mostly prevalent at the time of conception: our parents' genes, astrological configurations, the environment we are due to be brought up in were a few that he named. Those who have the good luck to be issued with a good chemical realize the Self, and those who have a bad or dirty chemical never do, irrespective of how much they try. The disciples of Sri Ramana I have been with, such as Lakshmana Swamy and Papaji, have all said that spiritual effort in past lives is carried forward, making it possible for enlightenment to happen relatively quickly in the final birth. When I asked Lakshmana Swamy why he had realized the Self so quickly in this life, he said that he had finished his work in previous lives, and Papaji said he had memories of being a yogi in South India in his previous life. Sri Ramana never talked about his previous lives, although he did concede once that he must have had a Guru in some other life. I personally feel that he completed all his spiritual work in some other body and arrived in his final birth in a state of such utter purity and readiness that enlightenment came to him virtually unasked while he was still in his teens.. from <http://davidgodman.org/interviews/al1.shtml> http://davidgodman.org/interviews/al1.shtml Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 Dear Alan your contribution was again GREAT thank you for this helping hand..... in Ramana michael - Alan Tuesday, January 30, 2007 11:50 PM Re: The Path to Enlightenment Is it not so that first there has to be a gradual path, and then a direct.. Below are some words from different sources where only Nisargadatta seems to say it is not so ( at least when looking at several lifetimes ). ( And once again I post this, hard to find a praise of the slow path : ) Slowly slowly O mind, everything in its own pace happens; Gardner may water a hundred times, fruit arrives only in season! - Kabir Being thus awakened, Fa Da praised the Patriarch, in a transport of great joy, with the following stanza:-- The delusion that I have attained great merits by reciting the Sutra three thousand times over Is all dispelled by an utterance of the Master of Cao Xi . He who has not understood the object of a Buddha's incarnation in this world Is unable to suppress the wild passions accumulated in many lives. The three vehicles yoked by goat, deer and bullock respectively, are makeshifts only, While the three stages, Preliminary, Intermediate, and Final, in which the orthodox Dharma is expounded, are well set out, indeed! How few appreciate that within the burning house itself (i.e.,mundane existence) The King of Dharma is to be found! from http://www.dharmaweb.org/index.php/Sutra_of_Hui_Neng:_Chapter_7:_Temperament_and_Circumstances Long after -- when enlightenment was come -- They prayed Lord Buddha touching all, and why She wore this black and gold, and stepped so proud, And the World-honored answered, "Unto me This was unknown, albeit it seemed half known; For while the wheel of birth and death turns round, Past things and thoughts, and buried lives come back. I now remember, myriad rains ago, What time I roamed Himâla's hanging woods, A tiger, with my striped and hungry kind; I, who am Buddh, couched in the kusa grass Gazing with green blinked eyes upon the herds Which pastured near and nearer to their death Round my day-lair; or underneath the stars I roamed for prey, savage, insatiable, Sniffing the paths for track of man and deer. Amid the beasts that were my fellows then, Met in deep jungle or by reedy jheel, A tigress, comeliest of the forest, set The males at war; her hide was lit with gold, Black-broidered like the veil Yasôdhara Wore for me; hot the strife waxed in that wood With tooth and claw, while underneath a neem The fair beast watched us bleed, thus fiercely wooed. And I remember, at the end she came Snarling past this and that torn forest-lord. Which I had conquered, and with fawning jaws Licked my quick-heaving flank, and with me went Into the wild with proud steps, amorously. The wheel of birth and death turns low and high." from The Light of Asia I once asked Nisargadatta Maharaj why some people, such as Ramana Maharshi, realized the self very quickly through a single act of self-inquiry, whereas others spent fifty years meditating and failed to reach the same state.. I was curious to hear his answer because I knew that at this stage of his teaching career he was persistently maintaining that reincarnation did not happen. This meant that he couldn't say that people such as Sri Ramana arrived in this world with an advantage over other people who might not have done as much meditation in their previous lives. In his reply he said that some people were born with a pure 'chemical' and some were not. I think he got the 'chemical' analogy from the layer of chemicals that coats a film. From what I gathered talking to him, we are all issued with a film for our life, that is to say, a more-or-less pre-determined script that plays itself out as our lives. The quality of the chemical is determined by a coming together of all sorts of factors that are mostly prevalent at the time of conception: our parents' genes, astrological configurations, the environment we are due to be brought up in were a few that he named. Those who have the good luck to be issued with a good chemical realize the Self, and those who have a bad or dirty chemical never do, irrespective of how much they try. The disciples of Sri Ramana I have been with, such as Lakshmana Swamy and Papaji, have all said that spiritual effort in past lives is carried forward, making it possible for enlightenment to happen relatively quickly in the final birth. When I asked Lakshmana Swamy why he had realized the Self so quickly in this life, he said that he had finished his work in previous lives, and Papaji said he had memories of being a yogi in South India in his previous life. Sri Ramana never talked about his previous lives, although he did concede once that he must have had a Guru in some other life. I personally feel that he completed all his spiritual work in some other body and arrived in his final birth in a state of such utter purity and readiness that enlightenment came to him virtually unasked while he was still in his teens. from http://davidgodman.org/interviews/al1.shtml Alan __________ Informazione NOD32 2021 (20070130) __________ Questo messaggio è stato controllato dal Sistema Antivirus NOD32 http://www.nod32.it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2007 Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 Thank you for sharing Alan. Perhaps we should chat or talk sometimes. One could say that a direct insight is followed by walking the path. One could say that one walks the path for a long time and then has direct perception of the Self. One could say so many things. One need not take them seriously. Namaste and Love Harsha Alan wrote: > > Is it not so that first there has to be a gradual path, and then a > direct. Below are some words from different sources where only > Nisargadatta seems to say it is not so ( at least when looking at > several lifetimes ). > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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