Guest guest Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 [Note to the Moderators: After finding that the following message that i posted earlier in the day had not appeared on the Home page, i am sending it again. In case of duplicity, kindly excurse me. Thanks.] ShrIgurubhyo namaH The Grand Scheme of Bhagavan Veda VyAsa Namaste, In this post an endeavour is made to address some questions that recently came up for discussion. One is: How is Shakti, the Universal Mother, called avidya? What comes to mind immediately is this nAma of the Mother in the Sri Lalitha SahasranAma: vidyA-avidyA-svarUpiNi. She is both vidyA and avidyA. We have already seen the meaning of this in a general way by recalling Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa's words: VidyA mAyA and avidyA maayA and the role of these two, the former takes us towards the Truth and the latter takes us away from the Truth. The daivI sampat (divine qualities) and AsurI sampat (demoniacal traits) are both the manifestations of the One Supreme Being only, through the power of MAyA which itself is made up of the three guNas – sattva, rajas and tamas. We have a clear mention of this in the Bhagavad Gita: Ye chaiva sAttvikA bhAvAH RaajasAs-tAmasAscha ye | Matta Eveti tAn viddhi na tvaham teShu te mayi || (VII.12) Whatever beings are of Sattva or of Rajas or Tamas, know them to proceed from Me; still, I am not in them, they are in Me. While sattva, rajas and tamas are collectively called `Avidya', still, sattva is differentiated as vidya, within the superset of Avidya/MAyaa and rajas and tamas as avidya, within this same superset. In the Lalitha SahasranAma itself, we find the Shakti, the Mother as the one inhering in the regions like MUlAdhAra. svAdhiShThaana, etc. , the lower parts, of the anus, genital, etc. This does not in any way take away or bring down the value and worth or glory of the Supreme Mother, who, in any case, transcends these, untouched by these. This idea is not something alien to the UpaniShads: In the Taittiriya UpaniShad, Bhruguvalli, for instance, we find these upAsanas: A quote, partially, from the book on the Tai.Upanishad by Samata Books: //Now the Shruti proceeds to teach how Brahman should be contemplated: KShema iti Vaachi……vimuktiriti pAyau.. ..prajAtiramRRitamAnanda ityupasthe [As safety in speech,….as discharge in the anus….and joy in the generative organ….] The idea of pointing out these is just to show that EVERYTHING in creation, the `lowly' and the `exalted' , which categorization includes ignorance, avidyA and knowledge, vidyA, is an expression of the Supreme Brahman, of course, through the agency of mAyA. The ultimate teaching of the UpaniShad/Gitaa is: this multiplicity, diversity, duality, dvandva, is just an appearance; not absolutely real. Hence, O Sadhaka, transcend this duality by knowing the Truth that is Non-dual, bereft of these varieties, untouched by these. The training for this is provided in the scriptures: be equanimous in duality (karma yoga) and finally get to the state where you see the One, NirdOSham, Samam, Brahma in everything that is variegated; for example the Gita verse (V.18): vidyA-vinaya-sampanne BraahmaNe, gavi, hastini, shuni chaiva shvapAke cha paNDitAH samadarshinaH: He is the Knower of the Truth who sees That which is inherent (as the Non-dual Truth) in the outwardly manifest forms of (some examples given): a Brahmin endowed with learning and humility (sAttva), a cow (rajas), an elephant, a dog and an utterly uncultured man of lowly habits (of eating dog's flesh) (all tamas). Here the teaching is: the Supreme Truth, Brahman, is GuNAtIta, beyond the three guNas. Actually, the Gita itself teaches in the 14 chapter the traits of the GuNAtIta. Bhagavaan Veda Vyasa, in His infinite compassion, gave us the PurANas with the objective of taking the people of mediocre caliber to the realization of the Supreme. Since the Truth spoken of in the UpaniShads/Vedas with whatever name, say for example, VishNu, which really means, etymologically, vyApanashIlaH, the all-pervading One, is NirguNa, nirAkAra, AdvitIya Shuddha Chaitanya , is beyond the grasp of the unprepared minds, Sri VyAsa featured this NirguNa Brahman in the various purANas and depicted this Truth, Brahman as sa-guNa Hari, Krishna, Shiva, AmbA, etc. In these purANas, He showed the respective manifestations as the Supreme. Thus, in the Bhagavatam Sri Hari is the Supreme Brahman. In the Shiva purANa, Lord Shiva is the Supreme Brahman, and in the DevI bhAgavatam, BrahmAnDa purANa, etc., the Mother is the Supreme Brahman. Thus, in the Sri LalithA sahasranAma we have names such as: `karAnguli-nakhOtpanna-nArAyaNa-dashAkRRitiH' . This means: the Mother Lalithaambika's ten finger-nails are the source from which the ten incarnations/avatAras of Lord NAraayaNa have emerged. We have, elsewhere a name: Brahma-VishNu-ShivAtmika meaning: She is the essence of the triumvirates: Brahma, ViShNu and Shiva. Again, there is this name of the Mother: sa-chAmara-ramA- vANi-savya-dakShiNa-sevitA meaning: On either side of the Mother LalithA Tripurasundari are present Mothers Lakshmi and Saraswati, serving Her, fanning Her. All this is to only show, in the intention of Bhagavan Veda VyAsa, that the NirguNa Chaitanya Brahman of the UpaniShads alone is the Supreme and the other powers that officiate in various capacities in maintaining the world-order, are Its own manifestations. There is no question of Devi is greater than Vishnu or Shiva is greater than Vishnu. The Advaitic bhAva that One alone appears as the variety of deities is what to be grasped, as conveyed by Veda VyAsa, through the purANas. When this is recognized, there will be no room for fanatic viewpoints of VaishNavism and Shaivism or Shaakta-ism. For those from the Advaita sampradaya the chanting of the three sahasranAma-s – of Shri Vishnu, Devi Lalitha and Lord Shiva – is equally sweet and agreeable and there are people who chant all the three even daily. The Gita verse (XVIII.20) teaches this: sarvabhUteShu yenaikam bhAvam-avyayam-IkShate | avibhaktam vibhakteShu taj-jnAnam viddhi sAttvikam || That by which man sees the one Idestructible Reality in all beings, inseparate in the separated, that knowledge know thou as SAttvic. The Kathopanishad severely criticizes the cognition of duality as real: MRRityOssa MRRityum Apnoti ya iha NAneva pashyati. He who sees difference goes from death to death. In the Nrisimha TApaniya UpaniShat there is this mantra: KRRiShir- bhUvAchakaH shabo, Nastu niRRiti-vAchakaH…. meaning that the word `KRRiShNa' actually means Existence-Consciousness Brahman alone. So too is the name RAma: ramante yogino yatra, nishprapanche chidAtmani, iti Raama-padenAsau parabrahmAbhidhIyate: The word `RAma' signifies that Supreme Brahman, bereft of the world, where the Yogins revel in bliss. To conclude, we have in the scheme of this esoteric wisdom, a graded path that leads the aspirant, from whatever level of spiritual evolution he is in, to the Supreme Non-dual Truth. This scheme makes use of the method of imagery, stories, etc., quite extensively. The various names of deities, their forms and their gradations such as Tamasic, Rajasic and Saatvic deities, are all part of this scheme. The jIva, the sAdhaka, is endowed with the Shakti, manifesting as both aasuric and daivi, in him. The `energy' that is required to eschew the Asuric and strengthen the DaivI is also present in him. The Scriptures are a guide, a `user's manual' as it were, to invoke and appropriately regulate this shakti. A Note for Br. Vinayaka: In the BhAshyam for Sri Vishnu sahasra naama, for the naama: `MaharShiH kapilAcharyaH' (531), Acharya Shankara says that this refers to such a one who is thoroughly versed with the Vedantic tattva jnana. He is the Acharya for the VedAnta tattva jnana. Thereafter, the bhashyam quotes the ShvetashvatarOpaniShad V.2 where the word `Kapila' occurs. Swami TyAgIshAnanda ji, in the book on this Up. notes that this refers to Hiranyagarbha. Shankara quotes the Gita X.20 verse also in support. Thus, from the above, it becomes clear that the Kapila in Gita is not the one of the Bhaagavatam. Nor is he the SAnkhya mata propounder. With pranams to all, Subbu Om Tat Sat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 advaitin, "subrahmanian_v" <subrahmanian_v wrote: > > In the Gita seventh chapter, and in the 10th chapter, the Lord is > specifying his Divine VibhUtis meant for contemplation. He does not > specifically enumerate the 'lower' ones, although He is also these, > of course, by the agency of Prakriti. > > The idea of pointing out these is just to show that EVERYTHING in > creation, the `lowly' and the `exalted' , which categorization > includes ignorance, avidyA and knowledge, vidyA, is an expression of > the Supreme Brahman, of course, through the agency of mAyA. Dear Subbu-ji, PraNAms, Even though there is no enumeration of the lower ones, there is one example of it given in the 36th Sloka in the 10th Chapter: I am dicing of the deceitful, the power of the powerful and the goodness of the good. I am victory, determination and constancy too. Swami Tapasyananda-ji has given the following note that is similar to what you have written which is as under. It is rather puzzling to note that dicing, which is a form of gambling, and which is recognized here itself as a field for the deceitful, is called a vibhUti of the lord. It is definitely a disvalue and a source of evil. All other manifestations mentioned here are values noble and desirable. Can it be that dicing is introduced here in a symbolic way, to indicate that even what man considers the opposites of virtue, has also got its ultimate source in him? Both vidya and avidya are aspects of his mAyA, and must be considered as having their support in him. Otherwise we shall have to posit a devil, an anti-god, as some other religions do, for explaining evil. If we accept that, this anti-god or devil also comes within the will of god; then it ceases to be different from the avidya theory. The other alternative of accepting the devil as outside god's will, is to accept another existence and power equal to god himself. This is repugnant to the teachings of the Hindu scriptures. (Unquote) One of our monks was telling that the panchayatana puja was introduced by Bhagavadpada solely to bring together different sects of Hinduism, which were holding fanatic belief that their deity is the supreme one and were antagonistic to one another. Same tendency was there at the time of Sri Ramakrishna between the vishnavaites and shaktas, which he also tried to eradicate. In one of the puranas or Devi mahatmyam I don't remember distinctly, saraswati is equted with sattwa, lakshmi with rajas and kali with tamas (probably figuratively). I feel we should be extremely careful while interpreting such descriptions. If it were literally true then Sri Ramkrishna Paramahamsa worshipper of kali, would have become a black magician, bandit or worse! :-) (generally these people try to propitiate mother who is their chosen diety for their material prosperity with some tantric rituals) But instead Sri Ramakrishna used to call her brahmamayi or embodiment of consciousness and she in trun conferred on him highest brahmajnana! In fact one of the greatest poets in Sanskrit, kalidasa was blessed by mother kali that is why his kavyanama is kalidasa. Let me conclude with two beautiful slokas from the Bhagavad gItA God is in the heart of all beings, arjuna!causing them all to revolve through mAyA, as though they were mounted on a machine.(Chapter 18, 61st sloka) o bhArata! seek refuge in him alone with all your heart and all your soul. Due to his grace you will win peace supreme and status eternal. (62nd sloka) AchArya says: Seek refuge with all your heart and all your soul-in your entirety. Rest in him alone to save yourself from the sufferings of transmigratory life, O Arjuna! Then, due to his grace-divine blessings-you will win supreme peace or withdrawal and the eternal status of viShNu Yours in Sri Ramakrishna, Br. Vinayaka Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 How Auspicious to read Sri SUBBUJI glorify ambal Sri LALITA Tripurasundari on this Friday ! Subbuji , may i also add another divine name for SRI LALITA Parameshwei on this day dedicated to her worship ? She is known by the nama mahApraLayasAxiNI ( LS nama 571) On dooms day , when the whole creation conmes to an end , She is the only one Witness or SAKSINI who witnesses Parameshwera' standava nritya and Sri kanchi mahaperiyavaal says in his explanation ( read prof.V,K JI'STRANSLATION OF sAUNDARYA LAHARI in the archives ) that THE LORD Parameshwera HIMSELF SURVIVES only because of her 'tadanga mahima' ( THE SHEER POWER OF HER EARRINGS IN THAT SLOKA 26) ! Such is Her pativrata mahima ... In this context, May we also recall another name of Sri Lalithabika from LS which is a complement to this one ? LS 232 reads Sri Mahesvara-Maha-Kalpa-Maha-Tandava-Saksini — Silent Witness to the dissolution of the Universe. Sri Lalita Sahasranama (Sri Lalita Sahasranama, C. S. Murthy, Assoc. Advertisers and Printers, 1989.) "The Witness to the Great Dance of Mahesvara in the Great Cycle (mahesvaramahakalpa- mahatanda — vasaksini). Mahakalpa, the Great Dissolution (pralaya); Great Dance is caused by the fact that the Self alone remaining and having become Bliss after the universe has been drawn into it; as, at that time, there is no one beside Herself, She is the Witness. The Pancadasistava says, "Your form alone is excellent, having the noose, elephant hook, Bow of sugarcane, and the arrow of flowers, And witnessing the dance of the axe-bearing Parabhairava [siva in His aspect of Destruction]Started at the time of His drawing the universe [into Himself]." The Devi Bhag. Pr. also says, "This [Devi] at the Dissolution [of the universe], Having drawn the universe into Herself sports, Having absorbed the souls [linga] of all beings in Her own body. R. A. Sastry, Lalita Sahasranama (R. A. Sastry, Lalita-Sahasranama, The Adyar Library and Research Centre, Madras, 1988, p. 128.) saxI means witness. A true witness is unaffected by the action and its consequences. mahA praLayam means great destruction. SHE witness this great destruction and it unaffected by it. The great destruction is end of avidyA and which is the root of all duality. At the destruction of avidya, Atman alone remains and avidyA ceases to be. But as Self of all she is untouched by the actions and consequences in vyAvahAra and also in its final destruction.) (COURTESY - POST FROM ambaal group) SUBBUJI, CAN YOU MATCH THIS DESCRIPTION OF AMBAAL ? ON ANOTHER NOTE, dEVI HERSELF REQUESTED ADI SHANKARA BHAGVADAPADA TO WRITE A COMMENTARY ON SRI VISHU SAHASARANAMA - originally , Adi shankara had planned to write a commentary on Sri Lalita Sahasaranama .. The duality does not exist among the deities - the duality exists at the level of US, jivas! ( with the false egos) only! Sri Krishna paramatma himself asked Lord Rama to pray to devi Durga before Lord Rama went to war with Ravana . Shiva himself is always meditating on Lord vishnu . Parvati herse;f is always meditating on her lord Shiva . Lord vishnu is doing linga puja during his yoga nidra . Subbuji , this is a brilliant ( neutral ) post you have written and i really enjoyed reading the contents ... I really liked the way Anandaji ALSO defined Jiva - he repalced the word avidya' by 'false ego' ... this seems more acceptable to me ! this 'false ego' (ahamkara is common to both men and women ! smile! All jivas regardless of which gender they belong DO have false egos .. After all was it not Plato who described 'man as a worldly soul imprisoned in a human body ' ... here i would like to recall this verse from Srimad Bhagvad Gita Mamaivamso jiva-loke Jiva bhutah sanatanah Manah sastanindriyani Prakriti-sthani karshati ( chapter 15 , verse 7) Srila Prabhupada's translation "The living entities in this conditioned world are my eternal, fragmental parts. Due to conditioned life, they are struggling very hard with the six senses, which include the mind." Swami Chinamayananda's translation from Advaitin files .. An eternal portion of Myself, having become a living soul in the world of life, and abiding in PRAKRITI, draws (to itself) the (five) senses, with mind for the sixth. " Subbuji, i would like you to expalin the finer nuances of this verse to me - please Define the 'jiva' using this verse ! thank you , in advance ! aDI SHANKARA'S COMMENTARY ON THIS VERSE IS WELCOME . NKARA having said that , just as there are two prakritis - lower and higher , there are two purushas, fallible and infallible , also in Bhagvat gita ! dvav imau purusau loke ksaras caksara eva ca ksarah sarvani bhutani kuta-stho 'ksara ucyate (ch 15, verse 16) There are two classes of Purushas , the fallible and the infallible. In the material world purusha is fallible, and in the spiritual world every being is is called infallible. SUBBUJI , YOUR COMMENTS PLEASE on the above verse also ... Subbuji writes : (To conclude, we have in the scheme of this esoteric wisdom, a graded path that leads the aspirant, from whatever level of spiritual evolution he is in, to the Supreme Non-dual Truth) Amen to that ! Without saguna worship , it is not possible to go to nirguna brahman - before swimming in the English channel , one shoould know how to swim in one's backyard swimming pool ! Salutations to Sri LALITA MAHATRIPURASUNDARI ! 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Guest guest Posted January 28, 2007 Report Share Posted January 28, 2007 Sadar Pranaams , Subbuji! What a royal comeback you have staged after that initial post wherin you had equated Shakti and maya with 'avidya' ... as you have now clearly stated Shakti or Maya has two aspects , vidya and avidya maya . Subbuji, may i also add another Divine name of Ambaal to your names from Sri Lalita Sahasaranama ? LS 571. mahApraLayasAxiNI ( This name is also taken to mean that SHE witnesses the great destruction at the end of the cosmic cycle by maheSvara. Everyone else is absorbed back into them. The deva-s who consumed amR^ita also perish at the hands of kAlakAla who does not perish even after drinking the deadliest poison. Poetically, his indescuctability is attributed to pAtivratyam of ambA (refer saundaryalaharI - tava jananI tATa~Nka mahimA).) please read professorji's series on saundarya lahari in this context where in one of the posts he has described the beauty and divinity of ambaal's tatanga mahima - her earrings her pativrata dharma which saved Shiva from the final destruction! In this context, May we also recall another name of Sri Lalithabika from LS which is a complement to this one ? LS 232 reads Sri Mahesvara-Maha-Kalpa-Maha-Tandava-Saksini — Silent Witness to the dissolution of the Universe. Sri Lalita Sahasranama (Sri Lalita Sahasranama, C. S. Murthy, Assoc. Advertisers and Printers, 1989.) "The Witness to the Great Dance of Mahesvara in the Great Cycle (mahesvaramahakalpa- mahatanda — vasaksini). Mahakalpa, the Great Dissolution (pralaya); Great Dance is caused by the fact that the Self alone remaining and having become Bliss after the universe has been drawn into it; as, at that time, there is no one beside Herself, She is the Witness. The Pancadasistava says, "Your form alone is excellent, having the noose, elephant hook, Bow of sugarcane, and the arrow of flowers, And witnessing the dance of the axe-bearing Parabhairava [siva in His aspect of Destruction]Started at the time of His drawing the universe [into Himself]." The Devi Bhag. Pr. also says, "This [Devi] at the Dissolution [of the universe], Having drawn the universe into Herself sports, Having absorbed the souls [linga] of all beings in Her own body. R. A. Sastry, Lalita Sahasranama (R. A. Sastry, Lalita-Sahasranama, The Adyar Library and Research Centre, Madras, 1988, p. 128.) (saxI means witness. A true witness is unaffected by the action and its consequences. mahA praLayam means great destruction. SHE witness this great destruction and it unaffected by it. The great destruction is end of avidyA and which is the root of all duality. At the destruction of avidya, Atman alone remains and avidyA ceases to be. But as Self of all she is untouched by the actions and consequences in vyAvahAra and also in its final destruction.) (ambaal msg 8514 thanks ravi for this wonderful mind blowing explanation) The question is never who is greater ? Siva or vishnu or shakti? Such questions only plague the minds of jivas like us ! Subbuji, Devi herself commanded Adi Shankara Bhagvadapada to write commentary on Sri vishnu Sahasaranama wheras the Acharya had originally planned to write a commentary on Sri Lalita sahasaranama ! how i wish Adi shankara bhagvadapada had done this ! it would have been a masterpiece! Subbuji , i have no problem with your discussing the lower and the higher prakriti - that is quite legitimate and it is also in the Srimad Bhagwat gita beautifully explained with the help of three gunas ! wE ALL KNOW 'DEVI IS EVERYTHING' She is knowledge ; she is ignorance just as all is brahman .... but do we ever say Brahman and maya brahman ? similarly it is not a good idea to call shakti 'avidya' - that is one aspect that has to be transcended ! Subbuji , i resonated more with Sri ANANDAJI'S DEFINITION OF 'JIVA ' ... HE SAYS 'JIVA IS AN EMBODIED SOUL WITH FALSE EGO ' he graciously replaced the word 'avidya' with the more acceptable word 'false ego ' ... may i please recall a verse from Srimad Bhagawat Gita in this context ? mamaivamso jiva-loke jiva-bhutah sanatanah manah-sasthanindriyani prakrti-sthani karsati SRILA PRABHUPADA'S TRANSLATION The living entities in this conditioned world are My eternal, fragmental parts. Due to conditioned life, they are struggling very hard with the six senses, which include the mind. let me ask you this , subbuji , would you say even all the deities including , Siva etc ARE THE GRAGMENTED PARTS ? would it be fair to equate the deities with the jivattmas ? of course , to a paramajnani like Sri Ramana even deities are concepts ! i would like you to kindly help me understand this verse with adi shankara bhagvadapada's gita bhasya ... having said that let me also share another verse with you ... just as there is a 'lower and a higher' prakriti , there is also a 'fallible and infallible' Purusha in the srimad bhagawat gita ... dvav imau purusau loke ksaras caksara eva ca ksarah sarvani bhutani kuta-stho 'ksara ucyate SYNONYMS There are two classes of Purushas , the fallible and the infallible. In the material world every purusha is fallible, and in the spiritual world every entity is called infallible. Yes ! subbuji ! all jivatmas are fallible ! is it not ? You quoted Sri Ramakrishna paramahamsa ... the same devi who binds us to this world is also the same devi who liberates! she is bhuktimukti pradaayini ! SWAMI VIVEKANDA says 'The Goddess is the great Sakti. She is Maya, for of her the maya which produces the samsara is. As Lord of Maya she is Mahamaya. Devi is avidya because she binds, and vidya because she liberates and destroys the samsara. She is praktri and as existing before creation is the Adya Sakti. Devi is the Vacaka Sakti, the manifestation of Cit in Praktri, and the Vicya Sakti or Cit itself. The Atma should be contemplated as Devi. Sakti or Devi is thus the Brahman revealed in the mother aspect (Srimata) as creatrix and nourisher of the worlds. Kali say of herself in Yogini Tantra: "I am the bodily form of Saccidananda and I am the brahman that has emanated from brahman." Subbuji, we all look up to you in this group as our WEB guru and therefore i am asking all these questions in a sense of total humility ... how can we graduate to to brahma vidya without saguna upasana of some sorts ? so , it all boils down to the fact that what level the spiritual aspirant is in his Sadhana ! may i congratulate on a brilliant post ? Sri Gurave namaha! sri matre namaha! ps : Yes ! devi is the 'kundalini' shakti in the muladhara chakra ... just ask sri shymaji , our web md . what happens when the 'anus' shuts up everything aelse shuts up too! So all the 7 chakras are equally important ... smile! advaitin, "subrahmanian_v" <subrahmanian_v wrote: > > ShrIgurubhyo namaH > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2007 Report Share Posted January 28, 2007 Sadar Pranaams , Subbuji! What a royal comeback you have staged after that initial post wherin you had equated Shakti and maya with 'avidya' ... as you have now clearly stated Shakti or Maya has two aspects , vidya and avidya maya . Subbuji, may i also add another Divine name of Ambaal to your names from Sri Lalita Sahasaranama ? LS 571. mahApraLayasAxiNI ( This name is also taken to mean that SHE witnesses the great destruction at the end of the cosmic cycle by maheSvara. Everyone else is absorbed back into them. The deva-s who consumed amR^ita also perish at the hands of kAlakAla who does not perish even after drinking the deadliest poison. Poetically, his indescuctability is attributed to pAtivratyam of ambA (refer saundaryalaharI - tava jananI tATa~Nka mahimA).) please read professorji's series on saundarya lahari in this context where in one of the posts he has described the beauty and divinity of ambaal's tatanga mahima - her earrings her pativrata dharma which saved Shiva from the final destruction! In this context, May we also recall another name of Sri Lalithabika from LS which is a complement to this one ? LS 232 reads Sri Mahesvara-Maha-Kalpa-Maha-Tandava-Saksini — Silent Witness to the dissolution of the Universe. Sri Lalita Sahasranama (Sri Lalita Sahasranama, C. S. Murthy, Assoc. Advertisers and Printers, 1989.) "The Witness to the Great Dance of Mahesvara in the Great Cycle (mahesvaramahakalpa- mahatanda — vasaksini). Mahakalpa, the Great Dissolution (pralaya); Great Dance is caused by the fact that the Self alone remaining and having become Bliss after the universe has been drawn into it; as, at that time, there is no one beside Herself, She is the Witness. The Pancadasistava says, "Your form alone is excellent, having the noose, elephant hook, Bow of sugarcane, and the arrow of flowers, And witnessing the dance of the axe-bearing Parabhairava [siva in His aspect of Destruction]Started at the time of His drawing the universe [into Himself]." The Devi Bhag. Pr. also says, "This [Devi] at the Dissolution [of the universe], Having drawn the universe into Herself sports, Having absorbed the souls [linga] of all beings in Her own body. R. A. Sastry, Lalita Sahasranama (R. A. Sastry, Lalita-Sahasranama, The Adyar Library and Research Centre, Madras, 1988, p. 128.) (saxI means witness. A true witness is unaffected by the action and its consequences. mahA praLayam means great destruction. SHE witness this great destruction and it unaffected by it. The great destruction is end of avidyA and which is the root of all duality. At the destruction of avidya, Atman alone remains and avidyA ceases to be. But as Self of all she is untouched by the actions and consequences in vyAvahAra and also in its final destruction.) (ambaal msg 8514 thanks ravi for this wonderful mind blowing explanation) The question is never who is greater ? Siva or vishnu or shakti? Such questions only plague the minds of jivas like us ! Subbuji, Devi herself commanded Adi Shankara Bhagvadapada to write commentary on Sri vishnu Sahasaranama wheras the Acharya had originally planned to write a commentary on Sri Lalita sahasaranama ! how i wish Adi shankara bhagvadapada had done this ! it would have been a masterpiece! Subbuji , i have no problem with your discussing the lower and the higher prakriti - that is quite legitimate and it is also in the Srimad Bhagwat gita beautifully explained with the help of three gunas ! wE ALL KNOW 'DEVI IS EVERYTHING' She is knowledge ; she is ignorance just as all is brahman .... but do we ever say Brahman and maya brahman ? similarly it is not a good idea to call shakti 'avidya' - that is one aspect that has to be transcended ! Subbuji , i resonated more with Sri ANANDAJI'S DEFINITION OF 'JIVA ' ... HE SAYS 'JIVA IS AN EMBODIED SOUL WITH FALSE EGO ' he graciously replaced the word 'avidya' with the more acceptable word 'false ego ' ... may i please recall a verse from Srimad Bhagawat Gita in this context ? mamaivamso jiva-loke jiva-bhutah sanatanah manah-sasthanindriyani prakrti-sthani karsati SRILA PRABHUPADA'S TRANSLATION The living entities in this conditioned world are My eternal, fragmental parts. Due to conditioned life, they are struggling very hard with the six senses, which include the mind. let me ask you this , subbuji , would you say even all the deities including , Siva etc ARE THE GRAGMENTED PARTS ? would it be fair to equate the deities with the jivattmas ? of course , to a paramajnani like Sri Ramana even deities are concepts ! i would like you to kindly help me understand this verse with adi shankara bhagvadapada's gita bhasya ... having said that let me also share another verse with you ... just as there is a 'lower and a higher' prakriti , there is also a 'fallible and infallible' Purusha in the srimad bhagawat gita ... dvav imau purusau loke ksaras caksara eva ca ksarah sarvani bhutani kuta-stho 'ksara ucyate SYNONYMS There are two classes of Purushas , the fallible and the infallible. In the material world every purusha is fallible, and in the spiritual world every entity is called infallible. Yes ! subbuji ! all jivatmas are fallible ! is it not ? You quoted Sri Ramakrishna paramahamsa ... the same devi who binds us to this world is also the same devi who liberates! she is bhuktimukti pradaayini ! SWAMI VIVEKANDA says 'The Goddess is the great Sakti. She is Maya, for of her the maya which produces the samsara is. As Lord of Maya she is Mahamaya. Devi is avidya because she binds, and vidya because she liberates and destroys the samsara. She is praktri and as existing before creation is the Adya Sakti. Devi is the Vacaka Sakti, the manifestation of Cit in Praktri, and the Vicya Sakti or Cit itself. The Atma should be contemplated as Devi. Sakti or Devi is thus the Brahman revealed in the mother aspect (Srimata) as creatrix and nourisher of the worlds. Kali say of herself in Yogini Tantra: "I am the bodily form of Saccidananda and I am the brahman that has emanated from brahman." Subbuji, we all look up to you in this group as our WEB guru and therefore i am asking all these questions in a sense of total humility ... how can we graduate to to brahma vidya without saguna upasana of some sorts ? so , it all boils down to the fact that what level the spiritual aspirant is in his Sadhana ! may i congratulate on a brilliant post ? Sri Gurave namaha! sri matre namaha! ps : Yes ! devi is the 'kundalini' shakti in the muladhara chakra ... just ask sri shymaji , our web md . what happens when the 'anus' shuts up everything aelse shuts up too! So all the 7 chakras are equally important ... smile! advaitin, "subrahmanian_v" <subrahmanian_v wrote: > > ShrIgurubhyo namaH > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2007 Report Share Posted January 29, 2007 advaitin, "dhyanasaraswati" <dhyanasaraswati wrote: > >> having said that , just as there are two prakritis - lower and > higher , there are two purushas, fallible and infallible , also > in Bhagvat gita ! > > dvav imau purusau loke > ksaras caksara eva ca > ksarah sarvani bhutani > kuta-stho 'ksara ucyate (ch 15, verse 16) > > > There are two classes of Purushas , the fallible and the infallible. > In the material world purusha is fallible, and in the spiritual > world every being is is called infallible. > Namaste, Dhyanasaraswati-ji You will be glad to know that in my forthcoming series (for the February month) for the 'beginners' (Are there any?) on "Who is the doer? Who is the Experiencer?" (along with a full article on JIva) , the above shloka is getting the central place. Thanks for introducing the subject. PraNAms to all advaitins. profvk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2007 Report Share Posted January 30, 2007 advaitin, "Vinayaka" <vinayaka_ns wrote: The other > alternative of accepting the devil as outside god's will, is to accept > another existence and power equal to god himself. This is repugnant to > the teachings of the Hindu scriptures. > > (Unquote) Dear Vinayaka ji, In one of the dhyana shlokas for Sri Vishnusahasranama we have thus: BhUH pAdau yasya........ sura-nara-khaga-go-bhogi-gandharva-daityaiH... The above verse says that everything in creation rests in the VirAt Purusha. A huge list is given therein and the last is 'daityaH', meaning, demons, rakshasas/asuras. In the Gita, the Lord says, 'among daityas I am PrahlAdaH'. That is His VibhUti, worth contemplating upon. One would not gain positively by contemplating upon a daitya Hiranyakashipu or RavaNa. > One of our monks was telling that the panchayatana puja was introduced > by Bhagavadpada solely to bring together different sects of Hinduism, > which were holding fanatic belief that their deity is the supreme one > and were antagonistic to one another. Same tendency was there at the > time of Sri Ramakrishna between the vishnavaites and shaktas, which he > also tried to eradicate. > > In one of the puranas or Devi mahatmyam I don't remember distinctly, > saraswati is equted with sattwa, lakshmi with rajas and kali with > tamas (probably figuratively). I feel we should be extremely careful > while interpreting such descriptions. You would find this verse of Sri Appayya Dikshitar truly instructive, informative and inspiring: // viShNurvA shankaro vA shruti-shikhara-girAmastu tAtparya-bhUmiH na-asmAkam tatrva vAdaH prasarati kimapi spaShTam-advaita-bhAjAm | kintu-Isha-dveSha-gADhAnala-kalita-hRRidAm durmatInAm duruktIH bhanktum yatno mama-ayam nahi bhavatu tato viShNu-vidveSha-shankAm || The meaning of the above beautiful verse is: 'I have not the slightest objection, to anyone coming to any conclusion, that the spirit of the Vedas and the Vedantas, declare either Vishnu or Shiva as the First God. I am a follower of the Advaita doctrine. I have no difference between Shiva and VishNu. But if in order to establish Vishnu as the main God, if somebody starts abusing Shiva or hates him, I cannot bear it. There are as many proofs or pramanas in the Vedas, Vedantas, Puranas and Agamas to establish that Shiva is a mighty God, as there are to prove that Vishnu is a powerful one. However, I am propagating my religion and indulging in debate and disputation, only to persuade everyone not to hate Shiva. Let no one have the slightest doubt that I either hate or wish to denigrate Lord Vishnu simply because I praise the grace and greatness of Lord Shiva.' The sublime devotion of Dikshita to Lord Vishnu is fully seen from his great work 'Varadaraja stava' where he has sung in ecstatic poetry about Lord Varadaraja of Kanchipuram. Vaishnavas declare that Vishnu is the supreme being and that Shiva has a lower status being mere jiva. Sri Dikshita however proves in his 'Ratna-traya- parIkShA' that Shiva, Vishnu, Ambika, all the three are the same, viz., the supreme reality, and proves it with the pramanas taken from the puranas, vedas and agamas. // The above is quoted from the book: 'Sri Appayya Dikshita' (p.66,67) by Dr.N.Ramesan, IAS. Sri Dikshita has gone to the extent of establishing that the Ramayana and the Mahabharata have Lord Shiva for their main theme. He takes out several instances from these very works and shows how Lord Shiva was held as the Supreme by Lord Rama and Lord Krishna. Regards, subbu Om Tat Sat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2007 Report Share Posted January 30, 2007 'I have not the slightest objection, to anyone coming to anyconclusion, that the spirit of the Vedas and the Vedantas, declareeither Vishnu or Shiva as the First God. I am a follower of theAdvaita doctrine. I have no difference between Shiva and VishNu.But if in order to establish Vishnu as the main God, if somebodystarts abusing Shiva or hates him, I cannot bear it. There are asmany proofs or pramanas in the Vedas, Vedantas, Puranas and Agamasto establish that Shiva is a mighty God, as there are to prove thatVishnu is a powerful one. However, I am propagating my religion andindulging in debate and disputation, only to persuade everyone notto hate Shiva. Let no one have the slightest doubt that I eitherhate or wish to denigrate Lord Vishnu simply because I praise thegrace and greatness of Lord Shiva.' Dear sir, With reference to the above, I remember having read an interesting account in the book, ‘Great Master.’ There is a scholary dispute going on between two groups of pandits as to the supremacy of the two mighty gods, Lord Siva or Vishnu, the dispupte going on for two or three days, with no conclusion being possible. Each party is quoting from the scriptures, their conclusions being based on their personal predilections also. Ramakrishna, the Great Master, is listening to this in wrapt attention. Guru Maharaj says at the end of the Marathan session that as far as his knowledge goes, no body has been able to arrive at any conclusion in this regard, each of the great gods being great in their own level. The Saiva Siddhantha metaphysics, it is very interesting to note, makes a distinction between Sivam, the pure Being, which is beyond the 36 tatvas, being the abstract intelligence, and Siva, the personal god who belongs to the realm of Suddha Maya, which is inferior to the Supreme Awareness of Sivam. Saint Ramalinga, while he talks about Arut Perunjyoti, highlights only the highest state of spiritual awareness. Devotion should enable one to transcend all this distinctions and aspire for the knowledge of the highest abstract intelligence. Devotion should not lead to bigotry. Based only on the reality of the waking state, one comes to such purile distinctions between different gods. One should go beyond the personal gods, and not get struck up with such fissiparous conclusions which have led to a lot of bloodshed. When one knows oneself as the soul, where is such a distinction? To come upon the ultimate truth, some do not need the belief even in the existence of a personal god. The Samkhya philosophy has not postulated the existence of a personal god, but has emphasised only the need for the discriminating knowledge. As Ramakrishan has said, there are as many paths as there are as many religions, equally being relevant the truth proclaimed by J.Krishnamurthy, that truth is a pathless land, while disbandoning the ORDER OF THE STAR. With regards Sankarraman Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Small Business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2007 Report Share Posted January 30, 2007 Thanks Professorji for graciously acknowledging that: (You will be glad to know that in my forthcoming series (for the February month) for the 'beginners' (Are there any?) on "Who is the doer? Who is the Experiencer?" (along with a full article on JIva) , the above shloka is getting the central place. Thanks for introducing the subject. ) My pleasure entirely ... we will be looking forward to the full article on Jiva ! Since i posted my response to Subbuji , shymaji has also posted his definition of 'ishwara ' and our most respected Ramji has also enhanced Shyamji's post by adding some verses from the Srimad Bhagwat Gita - specially the Lord's vibhutis . ( glories) i particularly enjoyed reading these lines from Sri Ramji's post ... (On subtle terms, the Lord seeks to convey that the gods and all sages from whom this world has evolved have all originated from Him. He is both their material and instrumental cause; and whatever learning, wisdom, energy, luster and power are possessed by them are all derived from Him. In conclusion, the Lord says that ISHWARA ALONE CAN DRAW A CLEAR PICTURE OF ISHWARA!) Yes! Indeed! Pl read Ramji's statement with these words from Srimad Bhagwat Gita ..... yasmat ksaram atito 'ham aksarad api cottamah ato 'smi loke vede ca prathitah purusottamah ( ch 15 , verse 18) Srila Prabhupada's translation Because I am transcendental, beyond both the fallible and the infallible, and because I am the greatest, I am celebrated both in the world and in the Vedas as that Supreme Person. Swami Chiinmayananda comments on this verse thus "The Infinite Consciousness is Itself the perishable-field in another form, and as the Knower-of-the-Field, the same Consciousness is the Imperishable Reality in the perishable conditionings, But when these conditionings are transcended, the same Self is experienced as the Supreme Self --- Paramatman. As I transcend the perishable and I am even Higher than the Imperishable, I am declared as the PURUSHOTTAMA (the Highest - PURUSHA) in the world and in the VEDAS. Explaining the very word Purushottama, Lord Krishna says that Pure Consciousness is HIGHER than both the 'Perishable 'and the 'Imperishable.' The Perishable can continue its processes of change only against the Imperishable Truth. It is a scientific fact that no change is perceptible without reference to a changeless factor. If two trains are both moving at the same speed no movement is recognised by perceivers in both the trains. If the changes in the world of Matter --- the body, the mind and the intellect are recognised, then there must be a steady principle that illumines all these different changes. This constant factor among the Perishing is called the Imperishable. This illumining factor gathers its status as the "Imperishable" only with reference to the "Perishable" realms. Once the perishable realms are transcended, the Imperishable amidst them Itself comes to shine forth as the Pure Infinite, which is the Purushottama. Since the Truth, Purushottama, is experienced only on transcending both the 'Perishable' and the 'Imperishable,' It is known by the term the 'Highest-Spirit' --- Purushottama. This term is used to indicate the Supreme-most Self, both by the ancient sacred volumes (Vedas), and by the poets and writers of the world. " Yes ! This is Purusha of the 'Purusha' sukta , the 'Hiranyagarbha' of the 'hiranyagarbha' sukta , and he is known as 'Ishwara , Bhagwan etc etc ...Ishwara means one who is endowed with poWer and knowledge also he is full of 'aishveryam' -all opulance . BHAGWAN IS ANOTHER SYNONYM FOR ISWARA , The Sanskrit word Bhagavan comes from "Bhaga" + "Wan". Bhaga means Oppulance and wan means Possessor. The Sanskrit word Bhagavan is explained by the great authority Parasara Muni, the father of Vyasadeva (The compiler of Vedas). The Supreme Personality who possesses all riches, all strength, all fame, all beauty, all knowledge and all renunciation is called Bhagavan IN THIS SENSE , sri Krishna bhagwan was the purna avatar - he displayed all the 64 qualities of the Puroshattama! i conclude with this prayer from Brahma samhita advaitam achyutam anadim ananta-rupam adyam purana-purusham navayauvanam cha vedesu durlabham adurlabham atma-bhaktau govindam adi-purusham tam aham bhajami I worship Govinda, the Primeval Lord, Who is inaccessible to the Vedas, but obtainable by pure unalloyed devotion of the soul, Who is without a second, Who is not subject to decay and is without a beginning, Whose Form is endless, Who is the beginning, Whose Form is endless, Who is the beginning, and the eternal Purusha; yet He is a Person possessing the beauty of blooming youth. ( MY FAVORITE VERSE FROM MY HARE KRISHNA DAYS) Lord Krishna himself says to sage Narada Lord Krishna says to SAGE nARADA nAhaM vasAmi vaikuNThe yoginAm hRdaye na ca/ mad-bhaktAH yatra gAyanti tatra tiSThAmi nArada// Listen my dear Narada! I neither reside in the Divine abode of Vaikuntha, nor in the pure hearts of yogis in contemplation. But most certainly I do dwell where ever my loving devotees sing about My Divine pastimes, glories and holy Names!! SALUTATIONS TO Sri ANANTAPADMANABHA! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 Thank you Sri VINAYAKA for sharing this . May i also share this account from Kanch mahaperiyavaal's discourses on Hindu Dharma ? "As already emphasised, the one and only Paramatman is revealed as so many different deities. If one person develops a great liking for a certain deity, another chooses to have a liking for some other. To make a man a confirmed devotee of the form in which he likes to adore the Lord, the Paramatman on occasion diminishes himself in his other forms. Tirukandiyur is in Tanjavur district, Tamil Nadu. In the temple here Siva is seen to be a lesser god than Visnu. He once plucked off one of Brahma's heads, became thus the victim of a curse and was freed from it through the grace of Visnu. In the same district is Tiruvizhimalai where it is Visnu who is seen to be a lesser god than Siva. Reciting the "Siva-Sahasranama"(The One Thousand Names of Siva), Visnu offers lotuses at the feet of Siva. When he is nearing the end of his worship he finds that he is short of one lotus. What does he do now? Visnu, the lotus-eyed, digs out one of his own eyes and offers it at the feet of Siva. The latter is pleased and gives him the cakra or discus. Siva is called here"Netrarpanesvara"(Siva to whom an eye has been offered); at Tiruakandiyur Visnu is "Hara- sapa-vimocana"(one who freed Siva from a curse). When we listen to the story of Tirukandiyur we learn that Visnu is a god of great compassion who frees his devotees from the most terrible of curses. Similarly, from the Tiruvizhimalai story we realise that no sacrifice is too great for a devotee- Visnu offers one of his own eyes to the god he worships, that is Siva. The question here is not who is the greater of the two, Siva or Visnu. In the old days we used to have the lanterns in our homes. There were lanterns with glass on all the four sides- or three sides. Let us take the latter type. The wick inside the glass is lighted. The three sides made of glass are painted in three different colours [or only two sides are painted]. The light burning inside will be seen to be a different colour from each side. We may take these three sides to represent creation, protection and dissolution, the three functions performed by the Paramatman. It is the one Light that is responsible for all the three, like the wick burning inside the lamp with the three sides. One side of the lantern, let us assume, is painted red. It symbolises creation. If we remove red from the pure light of the spectrum, the other six colours also will be separated. This is what is meant by the one becoming the many of creation. Brahma, the Creator, is said to be red in colour. Another side of the lantern is painted blue. The first and last colours of the spectrum are violet and red. The beggining is red (or infrared) and the end violet (or ultraviolet). Mahavisnu, during the very act of sustaining all creation, demonstrates through jnana that this world is not the whole self-fulfilling truth but the disguise of the Paramatman, his sport. In the fire of jnana the cosmos is charred. This is the state in which an object, without being entirely disintegrated, retains its form but loses its colour: it is like a lump of charcoal. Such a entity as the world still exists, but its own quality, Maya, is burned out and is suffused with Visnu-"Sarvam Vishnumayam jagat". In Tamil Visnu is called"Kariyan, Nilameniyan"(one who is like charcoal, one whose body is blue). Blue, black and violet are more or less similar colours. The light coming from the blue side of the lantern is Visnu. The third side of the lamp is not painted. We saw that when all is burnt in jnana the residue is a lump of charcoal. But if this charcoal is burned further the ultimate product is ash. It has no form and is just powder or dust. Now the colour also changes from black to white. White is the colour close to pure light. All the colours are inherent in that light, which means all the cosmic functions and activities emanating from the Paramatman are made extinct, are burned out. Now the Paramatman alone remains. That is the ashes remain when everything is burnt out- that is what lasts in the end. It is indeed Paramesvara otherwise called Mahabhasma. Samhara, destruction, may seem a cruel function. But what Siva does, though seemingly cruel, is truly an act of compassion because he goes beyond destruction to unite us with the Truth. When Visnu sportingly bestows jnana on us the cosmos seems like a lump of charcoal. "Sarvam Vishnumayam jagat, "we say. But now all the sport has ended and we have come to the state of supreme jnana: there is neither "sarvam"nor "jagat". Now it is all "Sivamayam". It is the one lamp that is the light of the Brahman. When it is seen through the red side of the lantern it becomes Brahma; through the blue side it is Visnu; and through the unpainted side it is Siva. Our great men have in the past sung of the One manifesting as three ("Oruvare muvuruvay"). There were great poets in our country who were not interested in propagating any philosophy or any system of thought- they were men possessing a broad outlook and an open mind who expressed their views freely. These poets have said that it is the same entity that is manifested as the Trimurthi(Brahma, Visnu and Mahesvara) and indeed as the 33 crore devatas. Bana says that the same Object becomes three to perform three functions, "sarga- sthiti-nasa-hetave". Kalidasa clearly states, "Ekaiva murtirbibhide tridha sa" (The Paramatman is One; it is this One that divides itself into three for the three different functions). If we were divided into two schools, the one insisting that the Saiva Puranas alone are authoritative among the Puranas and the other claiming that only the Vaisnava Puranas are to be relied upon, we would keep quarelling without ever being able to take a clear and dispassionate view of things. "The Truth is One. The wise speak of it by different names". There is no greater authority for us than this Vedic pronouncement. So all of us, without making any distinction between the Saiva and Vaisnaiva systems, must listen to the stories of all deities and be rewarded with freedom from worldly existence. Tiruvisanallur Ayyaval was a great man. His real name was Sridhara Venkateswara. But out of respect people referred to him as "Tiruvisanallur Ayyaval". He lived some three hundred years ago and was the senior contemporary of Bhagavannama Bodhendra. Bodhendra propagated devotion to Rama and Govinda, that is he taught people to sing these names of the Lord. At the same time Ayyaval spread the glory of Siva by singing his names. Neither of the two respected any distinction between Siva and Visnu. So the two of them jointly propagated the "nama siddhanta"in the Tiruvisanallur. They had respect and affection for one another and established the doctrine that in the age of Kali repeating the names of the Lord[nama japa] is the sovereign remedy for all ills. Whenever a bhajana is held obeisance is paid to these two (first Bodhendra and then Ayyaval) before singing the praises of the deities. (snip snip snip ). Ayyaval gives his own account of how Sri Rama broke the bow of Siva. "Svakara pratipadita svacapah, "this is how he put it. That is Rama broke his bow with his own hands. The story usually told is that the bow of Siva was cracked by Narayana and that later Narayana who descended to earth as Rama broke it completely. Ayyaval does not like the idea of Siva being represented as inferior to Rama. He does not make any distinction between Siva and Visnu and believes that Siva is Visnu and Visnu is Rama (so Siva and Rama are the same). Logically, in his view, the bow of Siva is the bow of Rama. That is why he says Rama broke his own bow with his hands. All such acts are needed for his sport, he declares. " http://www.kamakoti.org/hindudharma/part14/chap10.htm enjoy! salutations to Hari and Hara ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 the post related to the above subject i must thank dhyanasaraswathy for it was good.when you look at allthe flowers of differevt colours ,shapes and scent you love them all with out any diffrentiation as flowers.intrinsically they are flowers. in fact if parvathi was given in marriage to siva by vishnu then all saivaites and vaishnavites are one family of sambandhis.it is ekam brahman advitheeyam manifesting in to as many manifestations.the ultimate goal is to free ourselves from birth and death that is freedom.all roads from the bottom of the mountain leads only to the top. may lord krishna bless us all who seek him. baskaran BASKARAN.C.S Here’s a new way to find what you're looking for - Answers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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