On revealing dreams

[raga]

We sometimes come across Vaisnavas who are fond of liberally sharing of their experiences, gained in dreams and in wakefulness all the same. However, visions and dreams with special spiritual significance are private matters one should cherish within the chamber of the heart. By airing them out in the public, their impact on the self fades and vanishes over time.

 

As recommended in Hari-bhakti-vilasa:

 

<i>svapne vAkSi-samakSaM vA Azcaryam atiharSadam /

akasmAd yadi jAyeta na khyAtavyaM guror vinA //2.143//</i>

 

<b>"In dreams, or before one's eyes, if an astonishing, thrilling event suddenly occurs, it is not to be told of to others aside the guru."</b>

 

If there are senior Vaisnavas in whom we have deep faith, and whom we regard essentially in the capacity of a guru, dreams and other special events may be disclosed to them as well.

 

However, only one who has digested and well internalized the experience may share it with others. Even then, they are to be shared with the faithful alone – with those who will respect and find deep inspiration in the same. Revealing heart's matters before the faithless is wholly improper. If this warning is not paid heed to, we gradually lose the impact of the experience, and additionally risk becoming subject to pride and a host of other vice arising from an inflated sense of self-importance and the possible admiration of others.

 

Again, in the words of Narottama Das Thakur Mahasaya from his Prema-bhakti-candrika:

 

<i>Apana bhajana kathA, na kahiba yathA tathA, ihAte haiba sAvadhAna /</i>

 

<b>"The topics of your own bhajana, speak not of them here and there. In this, I shall exercise caution."</b>

 

Then, he notes: <i>rAkha prema hRdaya bhariyA</i> – <b>"Protect your love, burying it within your heart!"</b> He says, <i>gupate sAdhibe siddhi</i> – <b>"Perfection is attained in secrecy."</b> The intimacy of experiences with God is likened to the lovers' relationship in an apt metaphor found in Hatha-yoga-pradipika (3.9):

 

<i>gopanIyaM prayatnena yathA ratna-karaNDakam /

kasyacin naiva vaktavyaM kula-strI-surataM yathA //</i>

 

<b>"Hide them with persevering effort,

as you would a basket of jewels –

Truly don't speak of them to anyone,

As a noble lady wouldn't speak of making love."</b>

 

Therefore, accomplished Vaisnavas never share of their experiences in bhajana in public. The absence of replies does not make a commentary on the presence or absence of experiences as such. Often, it only tells of the wisdom of silence. Those who have something factually precious to share will carefully guard it as a hidden treasure. Access to such treasures is gained through gaining the Vaisnava's confidence, for such things are not to be squandered in broadcasting to a mixed audience, as one would not hurl bucketfuls of pearls before the swine.

 

Again, in the words of Sri Jiva from his Bhakti-sandarbha (339):

 

<i>atra ca zrI guroH zrI bhagavato vA prasAda labdhaM sAdhana sAdhyagataM svIya sarvasva bhUtaM yat kim api rahasyaM tat tu na kasmaicit prakAzanIyam yathAha:</i>

 

<b>"Then, the secrets of one's own that are obtained with practice and in attaining perfection – with the grace of Sri Guru and Sri Bhagavan – are never to be disclosed to anyone. As in the Bhagavata:</b>

 

<i>naitat parasmA AkhyeyaM pRSThayApi kathaJcana /

sarvaM sampadyate devi deva guhyaM susaMvRtam // BhP 8.17.20</i>

 

<b>"This is not to be disclosed to outsiders, even if inquired on by someone;

All the secrets of the gods, O Devi, will yield their fruit when well concealed."</b>

 

The warnings aside now, observe the merits of containing the experience – at the opening of Rupa's Utkalika-vallari, one of his final works:

 

<i>prapadya vRndAvana-madhyam ekaH

krozann asAv utkalikAkulAtmA /

udghATayAmi jvalataH kaThorAM

bASpasya mudrAM hRdi mudritasya //1//</i>

 

<b>"Cast down amidst Vrindavana is one

In tears with the longings of an agitated heart

I shall reveal the fierce burning

The marks of tears imprinted in the heart."</b>

 

The word <i>bASpa</i> means tears, and it means steam as well. Countless tears have left their deep wounds in Rupa's heart. The outburst of seventy verses intense emotion are the result of decades of withholding an immeasurable depth of feelings. Read the description of Bhakti-ratnakara:

 

<i>eka dina rAdhA-kRSNa viccheda kathate /

kANDaye vaiSNava mUrccha-gata pRthivite //

agni-zikhA prAya jvale rUpera hRdaYa /

tathApi bAhire kichu prakAza nA haYA //

karu dehe zrI-rUpera niHzvAsa sparzila /

agni-zikhA prAYa sei dehe braNa haila //

dekhiYA sabAra mane haila camatkAra /

aiche zrI-rUpera kriyA kahite ki Ara //</i>

 

<b>"One day, the separation of Radha and Krishna was discussed;

The Vaisnavas cried, falling senseless on the ground.

Rupa's heart was ablaze like the tip of a flame,

And yet outside nothing was manifest at all.

Whose body Sri Rupa's exhalation would touch,

That body would be burnt, as if touched by a flame.

Seeing this, astonishment filled all –

Such are Sri Rupa's deeds, what more can one say?"</b>

 

This is the power of conserving emotion and experience within. This is the power of devotion contained. Do not build up your bhajana only to waste it away, let it not be blown with the wind to a thousand directions.

[krsna]

Thank you Sripad Madhavanandaji,

 

O such wonderful quotes full of sagacious advice about protecting the most valiable asset of one's heart: one's Hari bhajana

 

It makes me want to become forever vigilant about disclosing anything to anyone save and except my Gurupadapadma whom I have unflinching trust that disclosure will simply increase the wealth of my bhakti-dana a thousand-fold.

 

All Glories to the soft-hearted Vaisnava devotees of the Lord who shower mercy on the fallen jivas of this world of birth and death.

[Erik]

Thank you very much, dear Ragaji,

 

i will print out your wise words and just hang them on the wall or lie it on the desk, to reflect on daily.

I remember that my first teacher, Swami Dharmananda, wrote in his book "Inner Yoga" a beautiful poem, that was called "Keep inner dialogue absolutely secret".

So many people has advised me to do the same, on this forum.

 

But i posted everything (well, not everything, offcourse) on some 11 different forums, that was because of this Kundalini like awakening, when all the memories of the past came back and then i got infected with this "posting virus" and shearing my experiences, which became obssesive.

 

Before i was not like that, i have become like that, since december 16th 2006.

 

I think i just print everything out, make a nice book of it and just let things the way they are, although i will not leave the forums right away and i cannot promis that i will never post a nice dream anymore, but this Krishna-Tulasi dream for example was not to be advertized to others, because there was a camera in the dream, denoting not to tell others things of a personal nature.

 

I think it will be better for me to become again like i was with these things before december 16th 2006.

 

Can somebody please, please tell me HOW to make Vedic Culture and Civilization attractive to people, without telling them my own magic and mystic experiences ?

I mean, the youth of today, especially in the West, has a big hunger and appetite for the magic and the mystic, wicca (withcraft) is becoming more and more popular, mysticism is rising since this Churchianity lost it's influence, they always hated the magic etc....

They wanna see and read about examples, real life examples, what is really possible when your love for God increases, what is happening with such a person, i think that will attract them even more into Bhakti and a personal God.

 

What do you think, so not telling our own experiences, not sharing them in public, yet make them attracted to Vedic Society, how to achieve that ?

So how to shower mercy on the fallen Jiva's of this world of birth and death ?

 

 

Any idea's ?

 

Erik.

 

And i know it is not all about the mystic things, but believe me, it helps....

[Guest guest]

 

Thank you very much, dear Ragaji,

 

i will print out your wise words and just hang them on the wall or lie it on the desk, to reflect on daily.

I remember that my first teacher, Swami Dharmananda, wrote in his book "Inner Yoga" a beautiful poem, that was called "Keep inner dialogue absolutely secret".

So many people has advised me to do the same, on this forum.

 

But i posted everything (well, not everything, offcourse) on some 11 different forums, that was because of this Kundalini like awakening, when all the memories of the past came back and then i got infected with this "posting virus" and shearing my experiences, which became obssesive.

 

Before i was not like that, i have become like that, since december 16th 2006.

 

I think i just print everything out, make a nice book of it and just let things the way they are, although i will not leave the forums right away and i cannot promis that i will never post a nice dream anymore, but this Krishna-Tulasi dream for example was not to be advertized to others, because there was a camera in the dream, denoting not to tell others things of a personal nature.

 

I think it will be better for me to become again like i was with these things before december 16th 2006.

 

Can somebody please, please tell me HOW to make Vedic Culture and Civilization attractive to people, without telling them my own magic and mystic experiences ?

I mean, the youth of today, especially in the West, has a big hunger and appetite for the magic and the mystic, wicca (withcraft) is becoming more and more popular, mysticism is rising since this Churchianity lost it's influence, they always hated the magic etc....

They wanna see and read about examples, real life examples, what is really possible when your love for God increases, what is happening with such a person, i think that will attract them even more into Bhakti and a personal God.

 

What do you think, so not telling our own experiences, not sharing them in public, yet make them attracted to Vedic Society, how to achieve that ?

So how to shower mercy on the fallen Jiva's of this world of birth and death ?

 

 

Any idea's ?

 

Erik.

 

And i know it is not all about the mystic things, but believe me, it helps....

 

 

Hey, Erik. I'm curious, but how do you know you had a kundalini awakening?

 

What did it feel like and what do you think triggered it? How are you different before and after this awakening? Do you feel God's presence more? Do you feel there's more clarity in your life? More of a purpose behind it?

 

If you can't or won't answer, I understand, I just thought I'd ask these questions as I am genuinely interested in kundalini awakening and what its effects are.

[Guest guest]

Part of a Chapter of:

Follow the Angels

The Path of Dedication

Swami B. R. Sridhara Maharaja

Tangible Depth in Divinity

When backed by the sadhu, the guru of very high stature, we can do anything. By the grace of his support, whatever kirtana is practiced will be effective. Meditating silently may be praised as more efficient in a particular context, but if we venture superficially to chant the Holy Name in that way, there will be great opposition, and we may become atheists. It can happen if we do not have sufficient support to fight against the odds. We must not venture to attack the enemy when our position is weak. But when backed by the great generals and sufficient munitions, we must march on. That will help us to engage in real kirtana.

The real factor is sadhu-sanga, which has a connection with the higher power. Otherwise, nothing has any value. The stand must be taken on the real plane of sadhu and sastra. We must cultivate the real thing, protect the reality of the bhajana. For the weaker devotee, the sadhaka or aspirant, the greatest necessity is sadhu-sanga, even as the scriptures are necessary for knowledge. Sadhu-sastra-krpa. If we have the mercy of the saints and the sanction of the scriptures, then our kirtana will be best.

Our attention should always be towards the negative, submissive side. If we can practice in submission, our promotion cannot be checked. Without qualification, if we are very eager to go upward, there will be a tendency to fall down. Dasyaya te mama raso 'stu raso 'stu satyam: "May I have the aspiration for servitude." For bhajana or internal service, such a temperament should always be followed. Tad dasa-dasa-dasanam dasatvam dehi me prabho. "May I always be the servant of the servant of the servant."

Promotion is inevitable if we always try to adhere to the lower duty. Eagerness for promotion is the enemy; that is for pratistha (renown), and that will undermine everything. Srila Prabhupada Bhaktisiddhanta Thakura said that imitation arises from the attraction for pratistha, the desire to hold the superior position and acquire a name for oneself. That is the great enemy. Don't fall prey to pratistha, the eagerness to hold the higher position. Rather, dainyam, humility, is the healthy sign of a devotee.

Vrndavana Dasa Thakura says that one who feeds thousands while obtaining his own nourishment is greater than he who only feeds himself. Kirtana means to cultivate oneself while helping many others at the same time. But when we have no capital of our own, if we go to preach we will meet much opposition, asat-sanga, and the ankura, the bud, will be nipped. If we are kanistha-adhikari, neophytes, we should not preach to others without vigorous backing. Kirtana means to preach, to approach others. We should not venture to do that as kanistha-adhikari, because we may be converted to atheism. Only after passing through the proper stages-sravana-dasa, varana-dasa, sadhana-dasa and prapana-dasa (the phases of hearing, acceptance, practice, and attainment)-can one preach independently (apana-dasa). Otherwise, we can only preach with the help of someone in prapana-dasa.

We should have an immovable connection with Reality, an absolute conception of Reality. Such a stable position is necessary. Become invulnerable; develop certainty, sambandha-jnana. Then we shall be able to understand and harmonize the differences that we find in the writings of the acaryas. We will know then what instruction to apply in each situation, and under what circumstances one or another particular process has been advised. This is practical knowledge.

[Guruvani]

.

[Erik]

Hey,

 

thankx for any reply.

 

First i wanna answer the guest interested in Kundalini.

 

Here are some symptoms of it, according to www.elcollie.com :

 

Ecstasy, bliss and intervals of tremendous joy, love, peace and compassion

Psychic experiences: extrasensory perception; out-of-body experiences; pastlife memories; astral travel; direct awareness of auras and chakras; contact with spirit guides through inner voices, dreams or visions; healing powers

Increased creativity: new interests in self-expression and spiritual communication through music, art, poetry, etc.

Intensified understanding and sensitivity: insight into one's own essence; deeper understanding of spiritual truths; exquisite awareness of one's environment (including "vibes" from others)

Hearing an inner sound or sounds, classically described as a flute, drum, waterfall, birds singing, bees buzzing but which may also sound like roaring, whooshing, or thunderous noises or like ringing in the ears.

 

 

But beware of the dangers, here are the symptoms of that :

 

 

Pains and blockages anywhere; often in the back and neck (Many cases of FMS are Kundalini-related.)

Emotional outbursts; rapid mood shifts; seemingly unprovoked or excessive episodes of grief, fear, rage, depression

Spontaneous vocalizations (including laughing and weeping) -- are as unintentional and uncontrollable as hiccoughs

Mental confusion; difficulty concentrating

Altered states of consciousness: heightened awareness; spontaneous trance states; mystical experiences (if the individual's prior belief system is too threatened by these, they can lead to bouts of psychosis or self-grandiosity

 

I had sounds in my head, like when i was chanting, suddenly a raging snowstorm raged through my head, the wind was crying through my brain and left me hypnotized for a while, i chanted in complete bliss.

And also other weird phenomena, like a voice from within my mind, taking over my chanting for 10 minutes, i could just think of anything while this voice continued chanting Hare Krishna in the most coolest way.

But also waves of devotion springing up in my forehead and those kinda things while chanting, really far out.

My memory increased, i released a blockage coming from a psychosis (not kundalini related) from the past, but my moods were rapidly changing, one moment i could be in bliss and the next moment, if a devotee didn't greet me back (it happens) or if i was ignored when i was happy, i reacted furious mentally towards them, towards any person.

 

All together this lasted from november 17th till december 13th 2006.

Then i stopped my practices, doing pranayama from 01.30 at night, i did this just to concentrate the mind for better undistracted chanting, i had no notion of what was about to happen with me.

I think, i don't know, but i know some small possibilities of awakening if it awakened properly, i think i will get a lot of Darshan, whether from the Gods or made up by my own mind, i don't know where it comes from, i onl;y know where my dreams are coming from.

 

Anyway, i was normal before, became a little different during and became normal again after.

 

It strenghtened my belief in Krishna as the one guiding me, one way or another, and my love increased as well.

 

I will quickly go to the lecture now, the yoga course finishes tomorrow, i'll come back to add another reply, i have to post it, as devotees have the tendency to shut down the computer when nobody is around,

 

cheers,

 

erik.

[brajeshwara das]

I recently posted a 'mystic' experience I had on these forums, but quickly reconsidered the wisdom in doing so and pulled the post. I think some desire for pratistha is connected with the desire to share these kinds of experiences, and internally I felt some imbalance. Woosyness. I knew it was wrong.

[raga]

 

But i posted everything (well, not everything, offcourse) on some 11 different forums, that was because of this Kundalini like awakening, when all the memories of the past came back and then i got infected with this "posting virus" and shearing my experiences, which became obssesive.

I understand the experience may be overwhelming, and certainly there is no blame anyone ought to be putting you on not being able to keep the lid on. Please don't take me as saying there is anything wrong with the dreams and the experiences as such. Experience is the life of devotion.

 

 

 

Can somebody please, please tell me HOW to make Vedic Culture and Civilization attractive to people, without telling them my own magic and mystic experiences ?

 

I mean, the youth of today, especially in the West, has a big hunger and appetite for the magic and the mystic, wicca (withcraft) is becoming more and more popular, mysticism is rising since this Churchianity lost it's influence, they always hated the magic etc....

 

They wanna see and read about examples, real life examples, what is really possible when your love for God increases, what is happening with such a person, i think that will attract them even more into Bhakti and a personal God.

As a sadhaka becomes more and more immersed in his practices, his being becomes imbued with svarupa-sakti, the highest culmination of the base spiritual energy, cit-sakti, the awakening of which some know as the arising of the kula-kundalini. With the infusion of svarupa-sakti, the sadhaka attains a glow unseen in the world, and his very persona radiates a captivating halo of magic and mystery. With sahasrara, ajna and anahata wide open and vibrant over the realization of the truths of bheda-abheda, the lucid perception of the lila and the attainment of a deep foundational devotional emotion respectively, the sadhaka is transformed into an other-worldly, divine entity.

 

Then, do not seek to make the effect and the impact by too many words of yourself in awakening others' faith in the fruits you have gained and are willing to share. Let them witness the same through direct perception. Over and above granting perception – which is subjective to the samskaras of the recipients – an accomplished sadhaka will have the power to infuse substantial divinity into a qualified candidate through his will-power alone. Conversely, where this power lacks, a presentation hundred thousand words laced with the best of reason and delicate consideration fail in empowering the candidate.

 

Yet again, the principle of selectiveness applies. Be observant, study the samskaras of others before making calls on how much and of what to place before whom in the way of spiritual gifts. Do not expose the powers of devotion to the faithless and the envious, let them remain unknown. There is a reason for Krishna's calling this knowledge of devotion the emperor of mysteries, the most confidential wisdom of all. And does he not warn at the end of the dialog:

 

<i>idaM te nAtapaskAya nAbhaktAya kadAcana |

na cAzuzrUSave vAcyaM na ca mAM yo ’bhyasUyati || 18.67 ||</i>

 

<b>"This you are not to speak to the non-austere or the non-devotee at any time,

Nor to one discinclined to hear, nor the one envious of me."</b>

 

Sridhara Svami makes a number of interesting notes in elaborating on the theme in his commentary:

 

<i>evaM gItArtha-tattvam upadizya tat-sampradAya-pravartane niyamam Aha idam iti | idaM gItArtha-tattvaM te tvayA atapaskAya dharmAnuSThAna-hInAya na vAcyam | na ca abhaktAya gurAv Izvare ca bhakti-zUnyAya kadAcid api na vAcyaM na cAzuzrUSave paricaryAm akurvate vAcyam |</i>

 

<b>"The restriction for instructing these precious truths of the Gita to those belonging to one's sampradaya is hereby spoken. These precious truths of the Gita spoken unto you should not be spoken to the non-austere, nor to those uncommitted to observances of dharma. And they should not be spoken to non-devotees who are devoid of bhakti for guru and God at any time, nor to those unwilling to hear, and those not engaged in worship."</b>

 

Coming to the bottom line, the question we are certainly all asking – "Why?" – Svamipada notes:

 

<i>mAM paramezvaraM yo'bhyasUyati manuSya-dRSTyA doSAropeNa nindati tasmai na ca vAcyam ||</i>

 

<b>"Those who are envious of me, the Paramesvara, will blaspheme with the attribution of perceiving me as an ordinary man – therefore it is not to be spoken."</b>

 

With this, we understand that caution must be exercised so as to avoid situations where the ignorant will disrespect the precious truths and revelations of devotion, for such disrespect is worse than ignorance as it forms a mighty obstacle in the way of their acceptance of this subtlest of spiritual paths. One who is indiscriminate in terms of his audience commits an act of violence towards the people he hopes to save.

 

There is quantity and there is quality, and the two rarely go hand in hand. You cannot give gold and diamonds to all. You need to make a call. Reflect on whether you wish to seek to give a bit of something to everyone, or a great deal to those few who are fit recipients. As people who are still largely unaccomplished in sadhana, we are finite in our energy and need to be conservative so as to not sacrifice ourselves in the name of attempting the world's salvation. If we are to over-extend ourselves, in the end neither the world nor indeed we ourselves will come to find the goal so cherished in so many words.

 

..

 

My writing this at midnight in the darkness of Radha-kunda with a thunderstorm raging above my head no doubt contributes to the eerie atmosphere of the contribution.

[Guest guest]

 

Hey,

 

thankx for any reply.

 

First i wanna answer the guest interested in Kundalini.

 

Here are some symptoms of it, according to ....

 

........

 

Erik, the details provided were helpful and also raise some questions.

 

Kundalini awakening appears to be a subjective experience – some people feel bliss and ecstasy while others feel physical pain and stress. Since the experience is not similar for everyone, one cannot know what his or her experience will be beforehand. It may be good or it may be bad. For this reason, awakening Kundalini cannot be a goal by itself as there is no guaranteed gain associated with the experience. Here come the questions.

 

1. Does your Guru say that the awakening will burn your Karma and you will not be born again? In other words, the individual is enlightened or liberated.

 

2. Is there any physical difference in the body after the awakening?

 

3. Is awakening a process that ends definitely at some point or is it an ongoing process as long as the individual is alive?

 

Thanks

[Beggar]

Here' a famous "Prabhupada Said Story". One time in the very early days of ISKCON one girl had some kind of mystical experience while chanting. When she told Prabhupada about her "altered state", he replied, "keep chanting it will go away". According to Sridhar Maharaja a beginning sadhaka should not put much stock in such experiences. We should think, "oh perhaps it is just some apparition, I am not yet so qualified". Srila Sridhar Maharaja would say, "we don't want that Krsna. We want the Krsna who is very difficult to attain."

Then there is the story he tells about some disciples of Srila Saraswati Thakur who went to their gurudeva and told him, "we have been chanting for several years but we don't feel or experience anything". Saraswati Thakur replied. " That you don't feel anything, that is a good thing. If had come and said that you had some feeling, some attainment, then that would be a bad thing." Sridhar Maharaja would give the example of Mahaprabhu himself, Mahaprabhu would quote Srimati Radharani, na prema gandho'mi darapi me harau. "I don't have a scintilla of a scent of love for Krsna, If I did I would give up this insect-like body." The negative side rather than positive assertion.

[brajeshwara das]

 

Here' a famous "Prabhupada Said Story". One time in the very early days of ISKCON one girl had some kind of mystical experience while chanting. When she told Prabhupada about her "altered state", he replied, "keep chanting it will go away". According to Sridhar Maharaja a beginning sadhaka should not put much stock in such experiences. We should think, "oh perhaps it is just some apparition, I am not yet so qualified". Srila Sridhar Maharaja would say, "we don't want that Krsna. We want the Krsna who is very difficult to attain."

Then there is the story he tells about some disciples of Srila Saraswati Thakur who went to their gurudeva and told him, "we have been chanting for several years but we don't feel or experience anything". Saraswati Thakur replied. " That you don't feel anything, that is a good thing. If had come and said that you had some feeling, some attainment, then that would be a bad thing." Sridhar Maharaja would give the example of Mahaprabhu himself, Mahaprabhu would quote Srimati Radharani, na prema gandho'mi darapi me harau. "I don't have a scintilla of a scent of love for Krsna, If I did I would give up this insect-like body." The negative side rather than positive assertion.

 

What about when it really isn't about us attaining anything, more like Guru showing Himself? Is that something we should keep to ourselves? My experience involves how I came to my Guru, and I often thought it was interesting from a preaching standpoint. Agian something tells me that a public forum isn't the appropriate place to share it, but I'm not sure that it is that off-limites to share when appropriate. I have told close devotee friends, and my wife.

[Beggar]

 

What about when it really isn't about us attaining anything, more like Guru showing Himself? Is that something we should keep to ourselves? My experience involves how I came to my Guru, and I often thought it was interesting from a preaching standpoint. Agian something tells me that a public forum isn't the appropriate place to share it, but I'm not sure that it is that off-limites to share when appropriate. I have told close devotee friends, and my wife.

One could say, " my gurudeva was so merciful to me that he revealed to me in a vision that he is not a person of this world. Yet despite this I am still so fallen that I am not yet fullfiling his divine orders." Best to preach from sadhu, sastra and guru.

[brajeshwara das]

 

One could say, " my gurudeva was so merciful to me that he revealed to me in a vision that he is not a person of this world. Yet despite this I am still so fallen that I am not yet fullfiling his divine orders." Best to preach from sadhu, sastra and guru.

But even so, what if someone then asks what the vision was? Would it be best just to never bring it up? It was pretty powerful, somehow I feel it wasn't just for me.

 

I guess I should ask my Gurudeva.

[Guruvani]

I have had some interesting "devotional dreams", but they are amongst many, many other non-devotional dreams, so I don't really give them any serious attention.

I am a vivid dreamer. Maybe it has something to do with the wide spectrum of exotic herbs and plants I take for health and vitality.

Many times I cannot seperate the dream from reality and I totally forget my waking body and life.

Many times I cannot fathom why I had a particular dream because it has nothing to do with any personal experiences or obsessions I might have.

These dreams just pop in out of nowhere.

Like the other night I dreamed I was tutoring an illiterate country boy who was kept very secluded around his home and his family were very backward country folks with some strange customs and way of dressing.

 

Then again the other night I dreamed I was in a car with a woman who was running scared from somone and driving her car through all sorts of dangerous situations and then we ended up stuck in the sand on a beach.

 

The dreams are very vivid and detailed and I cannot seperate them from reality when I am having the dream and I take it to be an actual life and situation I am in.

 

I feel almost psychic like some kind of remote viewer in a lot of these dreams and they are in color and as real to me as this world of wakefullness.

 

But, bizarre and exotic dreams are very common to me, so I don't put any significance on dreams even if they are very devotional.

 

the other night I dreamed I chanted 16 rounds of japa, but I didn't give it any more importance than any of the other many dreams I have.

it was just a dream.......

[Guest guest]

Re: Kundalini

 

Erik, I wonder if you've had the chance to peruse some psychiatric outlooks on kundalini? Specifically, Lee Sannella, Carl Jung, and Stanislav Grof have interesting things to say about kundalini and its validity. They believe in the validity of these experiences, and have a very different outlook compared to the mainstream Freudian outlook regarding these experiences.

 

Specifically, I'd refer you to an article of Lee Sannella's called: Kundalini: Psychosis or Transcendence, maybe that might help you in understanding the experience better.

 

Also I'd recommend Gopi Krishna's books on Kundalini.

[Erik]

Hello people,

 

i don't know how to "qoute" things, so i rewrite it....

 

Ragaji :

 

My writing this at midnight in the darkness of Radha-kunda with a thunderstorm raging above my head no doubt contributes to the eerie atmosphere of the contribution.

 

Well, what can i say ? I am cured by this raging thunderstorm above Radha Kunda, believe me, i will from now of on, read like a madman the scriptures and, as i go through them, summarize each and every story with all it's mysticism and magic and transcendence and loving and caring exchanges and appearances and so on.....summarize the stories and print them out, learn them by heart and read them (one at a time, offcourse) at the end of the yoga session, when people lie down in Shavasana, relaxed and receptive, people from everywhere, coming to Radhadesh, coming for a yoga experience.

I think this is a way of good and humble preaching to start with, right ? It's entertaining and inspiring.

 

So no more posting of my mystical experiences, mystical dreams dealing with the prema and darshan from whoever runs the show by the grace of Krishna, and so on.

 

I will always keep this picture in my heart of a raging thunderstorm above Radha-Kunda with a fatherly Prabhu sitting behind his computer, taking the trouble to post a new thread, not even directed to me, but in general, and his wise words and quotes, coming from the shastra's and his compassionate heart, as laserbeams travelling from the screen into my eyes, piercing my brain and finally reaching my heart in turn, and make me realizing that finally this rebel in me has died, this rebel, who stood up against the other well meant, loving and caring advices given to me by different guests and prabhu's in my other threads, this rebel has surrendered, believe me.

 

So Ragaji, again many thankx and i bow down mentally in gratitude at your lotus feet, for this correspondence was in it's own way, mystical and magical enough....raging thunderstorm over Radha-Kunda, can't believe it....so auspicious and beautifull.....what a picture to behold in front of my mental eyes when i step in my bed to rest in a while. Just so far out !!!

And i never been to Radha Kunda but now i am suddenly quite attached to this place...phhhff...i cannot even describe properly my emotion, maybe i come up with a poem, one of these days.

 

Anyway, i have to answer these questions of another guest about this Kundalini.

Here we go....

 

1. Does your Guru say that the awakening will burn your Karma and you will not be born again? In other words, the individual is enlightened or liberated.

 

Sorry man, i have no Guru and this kundalini awakening was by far not even coming close to the real thing, i just had some nice and terrible experiences and i don't even know if it was purifying me.

If you wanna know about the story of a former devotee, who met Prabhupada and was told by him that she would become Self-realized this life, here is the link, it is another kundalini awakening, Brahmanic, and for the ones who are not into Brahman talk, do not !!!

http://www.kundalinisupport.com/swamiji.htm

As for me...i don't care if i will be reborn again, i just wanna serve Krishna, nothing else.

 

2. Is there any physical difference in the body after the awakening?

 

I think there shouldn't be, but i really don't know, never had discomfort.

 

3. Is awakening a process that ends definitely at some point or is it an ongoing process as long as the individual is alive?

 

Again i really don't know, sorry i cannot help you with that. By the way, i just read your latest post and i read the article on the net a while ago, very interesting and i think the story of Gopi Krishna is at www.om-guru.com .

But thankx for the tip.

 

Beggar :

 

Then there is the story he tells about some disciples of Srila Saraswati Thakur who went to their gurudeva and told him, "we have been chanting for several years but we don't feel or experience anything". Saraswati Thakur replied. " That you don't feel anything, that is a good thing. If had come and said that you had some feeling, some attainment, then that would be a bad thing."

 

I think i would give up the process, as this is not encouraging at all to just go on with the chanting, i would give up, just like that, and find something that would give me that prema. I really don't understand these kind of words, maybe somebody can clarify that ? Wouldn't work for me....didn't they even feel some piece of mind ? I would throw myself completely on the Hatha Yoga process, eager to rise the Kundalini.

 

I am going to sleep now, first i will check a picture somewhere on the net of Radha-Kunda.

 

I will leave you with a beautifull poem, my former teacher of Rishikesh, Swami Dharmananda, wrote in his book "Advance Yoga Study" (available on the net as an free online book).

Here it is :

 

" Beloved Krishna, my heart so genuinely longs,

to make my life Your creative song

I wish to bloom in such a way

that Your beauty gets reflected the purest way

 

This desire to reflect You in me

is what i carry deep within me

will You, Krishna, will You help me

please do, please do, I implore Thee

 

You have given me much of what i wanted

You have given me so much even unwanted

will You now do me this last big favor

help me to reflect Your beautifull flavor"

 

This poem is called "Swamiji's aspiration".

 

Goodnight folks....

 

Erik.

[shiva]

Madhavananda prabhu first you claim that a devotee may share his experience with others if those people he wishes to share with are suitably qualified. Then you translate a verse from Jiva Goswami that says:

 

"Then, the secrets of one's own that are obtained with practice and in attaining perfection – with the grace of Sri Guru and Sri Bhagavan – are never to be disclosed to anyone."

 

You also wrote:

 

"Revealing heart's matters before the faithless is wholly improper. If this warning is not paid heed to, we gradually lose the impact of the experience, and additionally risk becoming subject to pride and a host of other vice arising from an inflated sense of self-importance and the possible admiration of others."

 

Is that from some sastra or tika? Once attaining the highest level the bhakta is always in direct mystic union with the Lord, that is never lost regardless of what the bhakta says to anyone. That person is not bound to any rules. Jiva Goswami writes in Bhakti Sandarbha:

 

 

In the Gautamiya Tantra it is said:

 

For they who are always fallen in love with the lotus feet of Lord Krsna there is no japa, no Deity worship, no meditation, and no rules.

 

From Nectar of Devotion

 

 

From Bhakti-Rasamrta-Sindhu (1.2.295):

 

When an advanced, realized devotee hears about the affairs of the devotees of Vrndavana -- in the mellows of santa, dasya, sakhya, vatsalya and madhurya - he becomes inclined in one of these ways, and his intelligence becomes attracted. Indeed, he begins to covet that particular type of devotion. When such covetousness is awakened, one's intelligence no longer depends on the instructions of sastra or on logic and argument.

 

From Srila Prabhupada CC Madhya lila.8.221

 

 

In all, there are sixty-four items listed for the rendering of service unto Krsna, and these are the regulative principles enjoined in the sastras and given by the spiritual master. One has to serve Krsna according to these regulative principles, but if one develops spontaneous love for Krsna as exhibited in the activities of those who live in Vrajabhumi, one attains the platform of raganuga-bhakti. One who has developed this spontaneous love is eligible for elevation to the platform enjoyed by the inhabitants of Vrajabhumi. In Vrajabhumi, there are no regulative principles set forth for Krsna's service. Rather, everything is carried out in spontaneous, natural love for Krsna. There is no question of following the principles of the Vedic system. Such principles are followed within this material world, and as long as one is on the material platform, he has to execute them. However, spontaneous love of Krsna is transcendental. It may seem that the regulative principles are being violated, but the devotee is on the transcendental platform. Such service is called gunatita, or nirguna, for it is not contaminated by the three modes of material nature.

 

Also many past acaryas have written about their mystic experiences in books for all too read, not just a select few. e.g. In an addendum appended to the Govinda Bhashya, after it was published, Sri Baladeva has written:

 

vidyarupam bhushanam ye pradaya

khatim nitye teno yo mamudarah

Sri govinda-svapna-nirdishtha bhashye

radhabandhurangah sa jiyat.

 

"May Sri Govinda be all glorious. By his mercy, he revealed this commentary to me in a dream. The commentary revealed by him is especially appreciated by the highly learned, and as a result of this I have been given the name Vidyabhushana, but it is Sri Govinda who deserves all credit. May that Sri Govinda who is the most dear life and soul of Sri Radhika, be all-victorious."

 

The advice from the various past acaryas about not revealing the "secrets" gained from bhajan or dreams or experience is clearly only meant for devotees who are not on the highest level. The devotee on the highest level can reveal whatever Krishna wants revealed from that devotee to anyone and in any way Krishna so chooses. There is no shortage of stories from past acaryas revealing all sorts of transcendental experiences to the community at large in their writings.

[Erik]

Haribol Shiva,

 

thankx for the shared insight, much appreciated.

One perfect example of such a devotee who is not to be obliged to follow any rules was Srila Vamsidasa Babaji Maharaja, a Vaishnava who lived in Navadvipa during the first half of the 20th century.

His behaviour was so unusual that in any culture less enlightened than India, he would be considered crazy.

He was about 6 feet tall, his hair and beard were uncut and matted, he never took bath and he had a wild expression in his eyes, he wore a loincloth only.

He carried with him always the deities and talked to them.

 

It is a nice story.

 

And about this secrecy thing....i am indeed a beginner although i have spiritual experiences from 1997 on, since i first chanted the Hare Krishna mantra, i think that triggered it all off.

Anyway, i have to be quick, i don't wanna miss Mangala Arati.

When i, in the future, will be a senior devotee or whatever you call this, i will definitly publish a book about all my spiritual (not all, i think) experiences and my mystic and magical dreams.

 

Haribol and thankx for the insight again.

 

Erik.

[raga]

"Not to anyone" means "to anyone, who is not on a level fit for receiving", which means most everyone.

 

Then, as I said, accomplished Vaisnavas will have a keen sense in perceiving the adhikara of recipients, and a fine discrimination in what visions are to be revealed and what is to be hidden.

 

I obviously did not write my post for those highest of the high. I directed it to the general audience here.

[Erik]

:pray: :pray: :pray: :pray: :pray: :pray: :pray: :pray: :pray: :pray: :pray:

 

I hope, one day, to become fit, to publish such a book.

I can only hope and beg for Krishna's mercy in allowing me to write in such a matter, a creative, poetic and constructive matter.

I have strong faith for this, because it is something i really want to do.

 

Faith sees the invisible, percieves the incredible and recieves the impossible

 

:pray: :pray: :pray: :pray: :pray: :pray: :pray: :pray: :pray: :pray: :pray:

 

Erik.

 

PS....and i really want to glorify Krishna and Vedic Culture through such a book, offering every little thing back to the One who is responsible for these dreams and experiences.

I mean, if one offers it to himself and think big of himself about what has been given to such a person, then it will feed the ego......then it will drive him away from God and that is not what we want.