Upapada Question what follows which, and how?

[Guest guest]

Dear Mr. Gendarz,

 

What you reiterated about the houses was already there in my

question, about the 12th and 5th and so on ...!

 

I also gave the reason why 12th may not be the anuchara, according to

astronomical reality. The 1st rises after the 12th and the 2nd rises

after the 1st! So the 'following' is not as simple as some indicate

or take for granted! No disrespect intended towards the fine

jyotishis you have named here and their preferences.

 

The 2nd represents kutumba, the immediate family, so I think marriage

and wife are more obviously related to the 2nd house, than 12th and

the shayan sukha which could just mean the quality of sleep one gets!

 

RR

 

 

vedic astrology, "Rafal Gendarz"

<starsuponme wrote:

>

> II hraum namah adityaya II

> Dear RR , Namaskar

>

> --

------------

>

> Some even take fifth bhava as upapada as they interpreted anuchara

as son, but anuchara means the 12H of ascendent, anuchara means that

which follows. This is also with respect to uttara kalamrta defining

as 12H. There are also views of Neelakantra which You present her for

odd and even sign but GC Sharma, Sanjay Rath and most of scholars use

always 12H for counting Upapada as this is connected to paying debts

to the Pitri's which can be done by Sannyasa (sa) or Married life

(Ju). Twelfth bhava also shows pleasures of the bed and shows these

which we want to donate/give so the Shukra avastha has exaltation

there and is known as Brghu then. Upapada is counted from twelfth

bhava and its main point for discussing married life of the native.

>

> --

------------

>

> Regards,

> Rafal Gendarz

> www.rohinaa.com

>

> -

> Rohiniranjan

> vedic astrology

> Thursday, February 01, 2007 1:02 AM

> [vedic astrology] Upapada Question <what follows which,

and how?>

>

>

> Hello Jaimini scholars,

>

> UL has created some options in some writings, for example in CS

Shah's

> book. He gives the three options: 12th house for odd, 2nd house

for

> even risings and also mentions the variant recommendation that

utilizes

> using the 5th house from lagna for calculating the upapada.

>

> Here is my question: If upapada is the house 'following' lagna,

should

> it be based on counting order (12) or rising order (2). When

lagna is

> rising, the 12th has already risen! So in that sense lagna is the

house

> following the 12th and hence in all signs (odd or even signs) the

2nd

> house rises after lagna or some would say, follows the lagna.

>

> Any comments for clarifying this will be kindly appreciated.

>

> RR

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear RR,

 

 

 

I would like to add following comments :-

 

 

 

(a) In Jaimini Sutra Chapter 1 Sutra 1 the Maharishi says "UPPADAM

PITRANUCARAT" I.e. the pada which is anuchar (follower) of Pitra is

Uppada. The code is deciphered as "AKANAM VAMTO GATI" which

yields result as 0+1= 1 and denotes Lagna, the first house. So the

Anuchar of Lagna or which follows the Lagna is the 12th house.

 

 

 

(b) There is ofcourse difference of opinion on the meaning of Anuchar

e.g. BPHS treats it as the 5th house. Some commentaries say A-7 also as

UL. Some other commentaries say the for odd rashi Lagna it is from 12th

house and for even rashi lagna it is taken from the 2nd house.

 

 

 

© However, as per traditions and pactices generally 12th house is

taken for UL as per sutra given in (a) above. However, It is upto and

individual practitioner to take any rule, which he feels and finds to

be convenient and practical in predictions.

 

 

 

You will appreciate that a great number of scholars like

 

Keshav,Nilkanth,Nrisinh Suri,Premnidhi Prabhriti and further in the

modern times Sh B N Rao, Dr BV Raman and in recent times Sh Sanjay Rath

has done great and in-depth research on giving appropriate meanings and

commentries on the Jaimini Sutras, but these sutras still need more

research, as there are many contradictions amongst the great scholars,

and we should expect future scholars to improve upon the findings on

Jaimini Sutras attempted so far and enrich the modern astrology. Till

then we have no choice , but to either follow the traditionally accepted

rules or follow what one thinks suits his/her individual style and

methods of prediction, or someone amongst us becomes a blessed scholar

and dares to challenge the scholars before us.

 

 

 

Raj Bhardwaj

 

Sh Aditya Jyotish Kendra

 

Panchkula

 

 

 

 

vedic astrology, "Rohiniranjan"

<rohini_ranjan wrote:

>

> Dear Mr. Gendarz,

>

> What you reiterated about the houses was already there in my

> question, about the 12th and 5th and so on ...!

>

> I also gave the reason why 12th may not be the anuchara, according to

> astronomical reality. The 1st rises after the 12th and the 2nd rises

> after the 1st! So the 'following' is not as simple as some indicate

> or take for granted! No disrespect intended towards the fine

> jyotishis you have named here and their preferences.

>

> The 2nd represents kutumba, the immediate family, so I think marriage

> and wife are more obviously related to the 2nd house, than 12th and

> the shayan sukha which could just mean the quality of sleep one gets!

>

> RR

>

>

> vedic astrology, "Rafal Gendarz"

> starsuponme@ wrote:

> >

> > II hraum namah adityaya II

> > Dear RR , Namaskar

> >

> > --

> ------------

> >

> > Some even take fifth bhava as upapada as they interpreted anuchara

> as son, but anuchara means the 12H of ascendent, anuchara means that

> which follows. This is also with respect to uttara kalamrta defining

> as 12H. There are also views of Neelakantra which You present her for

> odd and even sign but GC Sharma, Sanjay Rath and most of scholars use

> always 12H for counting Upapada as this is connected to paying debts

> to the Pitri's which can be done by Sannyasa (sa) or Married life

> (Ju). Twelfth bhava also shows pleasures of the bed and shows these

> which we want to donate/give so the Shukra avastha has exaltation

> there and is known as Brghu then. Upapada is counted from twelfth

> bhava and its main point for discussing married life of the native.

> >

> > --

> ------------

> >

> > Regards,

> > Rafal Gendarz

> > www.rohinaa.com

> >

> > -

> > Rohiniranjan

> > vedic astrology

> > Thursday, February 01, 2007 1:02 AM

> > [vedic astrology] Upapada Question <what follows which,

> and how?>

> >

> >

> > Hello Jaimini scholars,

> >

> > UL has created some options in some writings, for example in CS

> Shah's

> > book. He gives the three options: 12th house for odd, 2nd house

> for

> > even risings and also mentions the variant recommendation that

> utilizes

> > using the 5th house from lagna for calculating the upapada.

> >

> > Here is my question: If upapada is the house 'following' lagna,

> should

> > it be based on counting order (12) or rising order (2). When

> lagna is

> > rising, the 12th has already risen! So in that sense lagna is the

> house

> > following the 12th and hence in all signs (odd or even signs) the

> 2nd

> > house rises after lagna or some would say, follows the lagna.

> >

> > Any comments for clarifying this will be kindly appreciated.

> >

> > RR

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

II hraum namah adityaya II

Dear RR, Namaskar

 

--

 

1)Try Uttara Kalamrta - Effects of the Planets and Houses.

2) Try this chart:

 

March 17, 1977

Time: 0:19:17

Time Zone: 1:00:00 (East of GMT)

Place: 19 E 01' 10", 50 N 16' 10"

 

Upapada per Bphs, JS, Uttara Kalamrta indicate partner and their hapiness along with progeniture (bphs).

 

a)Upapada counted from 12H = Cancer.

 

b)Upapada counted from 2H = Libra.

 

a) Cancer is in ninth bhava so they meet in temple. Sani indicate older person. She must have

one of these Lagna's : cancer, scorpio, pisces, capricorn. Mangal aspecting giving martial traits,

Parivartana shows that she is quite spiritual (mo-sa along 3/9). They meet in place related to watter(cap or can-after parivartana)

 

b) Upapada in twelfht bhava with rahu indicate foreinger. Person likes to prove better than others(rahu)

and is quite interested in bhoga marga(rahu) colured with parties (ve), they meet in some place

related to port (aries) or battleground. It can be Libra, Aqaiurs, Gemini, Aries Lagna's of partner.

 

Reality is that person is older (Sani) has Cancer Lagna (UL in cancer) they meet in temple (ninth bhava) near water (Cn/Cp) she is spiritual (mo/sa) and not bhoga marga which shows that UPAPADA IS IN CANCER (counting from 12H).

 

 

 

--

 

Regards,

Rafal Gendarz

www.rohinaa.com

 

-

Rohiniranjan

vedic astrology

Friday, February 02, 2007 12:35 AM

[vedic astrology] Re: Upapada Question <what follows which, and how?>

 

 

Dear Mr. Gendarz,

 

What you reiterated about the houses was already there in my

question, about the 12th and 5th and so on ...!

 

I also gave the reason why 12th may not be the anuchara, according to

astronomical reality. The 1st rises after the 12th and the 2nd rises

after the 1st! So the 'following' is not as simple as some indicate

or take for granted! No disrespect intended towards the fine

jyotishis you have named here and their preferences.

 

The 2nd represents kutumba, the immediate family, so I think marriage

and wife are more obviously related to the 2nd house, than 12th and

the shayan sukha which could just mean the quality of sleep one gets!

 

RR

 

vedic astrology, "Rafal Gendarz"

<starsuponme wrote:

>

> II hraum namah adityaya II

> Dear RR , Namaskar

>

> -------------------------

------------

>

> Some even take fifth bhava as upapada as they interpreted anuchara

as son, but anuchara means the 12H of ascendent, anuchara means that

which follows. This is also with respect to uttara kalamrta defining

as 12H. There are also views of Neelakantra which You present her for

odd and even sign but GC Sharma, Sanjay Rath and most of scholars use

always 12H for counting Upapada as this is connected to paying debts

to the Pitri's which can be done by Sannyasa (sa) or Married life

(Ju). Twelfth bhava also shows pleasures of the bed and shows these

which we want to donate/give so the Shukra avastha has exaltation

there and is known as Brghu then. Upapada is counted from twelfth

bhava and its main point for discussing married life of the native.

>

> -------------------------

------------

>

> Regards,

> Rafal Gendarz

> www.rohinaa.com

>

> -

> Rohiniranjan

> vedic astrology

> Thursday, February 01, 2007 1:02 AM

> [vedic astrology] Upapada Question <what follows which,

and how?>

>

>

> Hello Jaimini scholars,

>

> UL has created some options in some writings, for example in CS

Shah's

> book. He gives the three options: 12th house for odd, 2nd house

for

> even risings and also mentions the variant recommendation that

utilizes

> using the 5th house from lagna for calculating the upapada.

>

> Here is my question: If upapada is the house 'following' lagna,

should

> it be based on counting order (12) or rising order (2). When

lagna is

> rising, the 12th has already risen! So in that sense lagna is the

house

> following the 12th and hence in all signs (odd or even signs) the

2nd

> house rises after lagna or some would say, follows the lagna.

>

> Any comments for clarifying this will be kindly appreciated.

>

> RR

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Raj,

 

I have nothing against tradition or scholarly opinions and cited

research which is vastly unknown (at least some of the ancient

astrologers). I am not questioning that the research must have been

done and I am not questioning any claims. All I am pointing out is

that sometimes evidence that is absent (unknown) is not the best way

to give evidence of absence!

 

Just because someone is questioning what some people have decided to

be the case does not close the book for all! Same deal with ayanamsha

which is still going strong and people use similar blanket statemens

such as gurus have said their piece and panchaang makers have decided

in poona which value to use so case closed! Well obviously not! Then

people make statements like "Most astrologers use this value or that

value". How do they know? Who conducted the global survey? you see my

point hopefully!

 

Just by asking a question, I am not challenging your teacher or

favourite author but simply the tenet or in some cases the belief!

Don't take it personally (if you or someone is taking it personally!).

 

Now to specifics: I quote,"(a) In Jaimini Sutra Chapter 1 Sutra 1 the

Maharishi says "UPPADAM

PITRANUCARAT" I.e. the pada which is anuchar (follower) of Pitra is

Uppada. The code is deciphered as "AKANAM VAMTO GATI" which

yields result as 0+1= 1 and denotes Lagna, the first house. So the

Anuchar of Lagna or which follows the Lagna is the 12th house."

 

All your code aside, how did you get that that which follows the first

is 12th house from this?

 

If you cared to read what I posted, you would notice that 12th rises

before the 1st (visualize it mentally!) so the 1st follows the 12th up

in the real heavens that can be observed 24/7 and does not require

some secret code to see reality as it is and as astrology is supposed

to be!

 

RR

 

vedic astrology, "Raj Bhardwaj"

<rajbhardwaj1949 wrote:

>

>

> Dear RR,

>

>

>

> I would like to add following comments :-

>

>

>

> (a) In Jaimini Sutra Chapter 1 Sutra 1 the Maharishi says "UPPADAM

> PITRANUCARAT" I.e. the pada which is anuchar (follower) of Pitra is

> Uppada. The code is deciphered as "AKANAM VAMTO GATI" which

> yields result as 0+1= 1 and denotes Lagna, the first house. So the

> Anuchar of Lagna or which follows the Lagna is the 12th house.

>

>

>

> (b) There is ofcourse difference of opinion on the meaning of Anuchar

> e.g. BPHS treats it as the 5th house. Some commentaries say A-7 also as

> UL. Some other commentaries say the for odd rashi Lagna it is from 12th

> house and for even rashi lagna it is taken from the 2nd house.

>

>

>

> © However, as per traditions and pactices generally 12th house is

> taken for UL as per sutra given in (a) above. However, It is upto and

> individual practitioner to take any rule, which he feels and finds to

> be convenient and practical in predictions.

>

>

>

> You will appreciate that a great number of scholars like

>

> Keshav,Nilkanth,Nrisinh Suri,Premnidhi Prabhriti and further in the

> modern times Sh B N Rao, Dr BV Raman and in recent times Sh Sanjay Rath

> has done great and in-depth research on giving appropriate meanings and

> commentries on the Jaimini Sutras, but these sutras still need more

> research, as there are many contradictions amongst the great scholars,

> and we should expect future scholars to improve upon the findings on

> Jaimini Sutras attempted so far and enrich the modern astrology. Till

> then we have no choice , but to either follow the traditionally accepted

> rules or follow what one thinks suits his/her individual style and

> methods of prediction, or someone amongst us becomes a blessed scholar

> and dares to challenge the scholars before us.

>

>

>

> Raj Bhardwaj

>

> Sh Aditya Jyotish Kendra

>

> Panchkula

>

>

>

>

> vedic astrology, "Rohiniranjan"

> <rohini_ranjan@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Mr. Gendarz,

> >

> > What you reiterated about the houses was already there in my

> > question, about the 12th and 5th and so on ...!

> >

> > I also gave the reason why 12th may not be the anuchara, according to

> > astronomical reality. The 1st rises after the 12th and the 2nd rises

> > after the 1st! So the 'following' is not as simple as some indicate

> > or take for granted! No disrespect intended towards the fine

> > jyotishis you have named here and their preferences.

> >

> > The 2nd represents kutumba, the immediate family, so I think marriage

> > and wife are more obviously related to the 2nd house, than 12th and

> > the shayan sukha which could just mean the quality of sleep one gets!

> >

> > RR

> >

> >

> > vedic astrology, "Rafal Gendarz"

> > starsuponme@ wrote:

> > >

> > > II hraum namah adityaya II

> > > Dear RR , Namaskar

> > >

> > > --

> > ------------

> > >

> > > Some even take fifth bhava as upapada as they interpreted anuchara

> > as son, but anuchara means the 12H of ascendent, anuchara means that

> > which follows. This is also with respect to uttara kalamrta defining

> > as 12H. There are also views of Neelakantra which You present her for

> > odd and even sign but GC Sharma, Sanjay Rath and most of scholars use

> > always 12H for counting Upapada as this is connected to paying debts

> > to the Pitri's which can be done by Sannyasa (sa) or Married life

> > (Ju). Twelfth bhava also shows pleasures of the bed and shows these

> > which we want to donate/give so the Shukra avastha has exaltation

> > there and is known as Brghu then. Upapada is counted from twelfth

> > bhava and its main point for discussing married life of the native.

> > >

> > > --

> > ------------

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > > Rafal Gendarz

> > > www.rohinaa.com

> > >

> > > -

> > > Rohiniranjan

> > > vedic astrology

> > > Thursday, February 01, 2007 1:02 AM

> > > [vedic astrology] Upapada Question <what follows which,

> > and how?>

> > >

> > >

> > > Hello Jaimini scholars,

> > >

> > > UL has created some options in some writings, for example in CS

> > Shah's

> > > book. He gives the three options: 12th house for odd, 2nd house

> > for

> > > even risings and also mentions the variant recommendation that

> > utilizes

> > > using the 5th house from lagna for calculating the upapada.

> > >

> > > Here is my question: If upapada is the house 'following' lagna,

> > should

> > > it be based on counting order (12) or rising order (2). When

> > lagna is

> > > rising, the 12th has already risen! So in that sense lagna is the

> > house

> > > following the 12th and hence in all signs (odd or even signs) the

> > 2nd

> > > house rises after lagna or some would say, follows the lagna.

> > >

> > > Any comments for clarifying this will be kindly appreciated.

> > >

> > > RR

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Mr. Gendarz,

 

Thanks for your recommendations to see UKA (it has some interesting

angles, does it not!) and also for your graciousness to share an

example which I will look at. But ...

 

Please provide the original birthtime given by the nativity. The

seconds in the time given by you indicate that it was not the original

recorded time. I like to look at the original stated time too in

addition to one modified by a jyotishis (different ayanamshas etc make

the doctored time kind of specific to the astrologer who is doing the

so called "rectification"!

 

Also, please share the name of place of birth.

 

Thanks

 

RR

 

vedic astrology, "Rafal Gendarz"

<starsuponme wrote:

>

> II hraum namah adityaya II

> Dear RR, Namaskar

>

>

--

>

> 1)Try Uttara Kalamrta - Effects of the Planets and Houses.

> 2) Try this chart:

>

> March 17, 1977

> Time: 0:19:17

> Time Zone: 1:00:00 (East of GMT)

> Place: 19 E 01' 10", 50 N 16' 10"

>

> Upapada per Bphs, JS, Uttara Kalamrta indicate partner and their

hapiness along with progeniture (bphs).

>

> a)Upapada counted from 12H = Cancer.

>

> b)Upapada counted from 2H = Libra.

>

> a) Cancer is in ninth bhava so they meet in temple. Sani indicate

older person. She must have

> one of these Lagna's : cancer, scorpio, pisces, capricorn. Mangal

aspecting giving martial traits,

> Parivartana shows that she is quite spiritual (mo-sa along 3/9).

They meet in place related to watter(cap or can-after parivartana)

>

> b) Upapada in twelfht bhava with rahu indicate foreinger. Person

likes to prove better than others(rahu)

> and is quite interested in bhoga marga(rahu) colured with parties

(ve), they meet in some place

> related to port (aries) or battleground. It can be Libra, Aqaiurs,

Gemini, Aries Lagna's of partner.

>

> Reality is that person is older (Sani) has Cancer Lagna (UL in

cancer) they meet in temple (ninth bhava) near water (Cn/Cp) she is

spiritual (mo/sa) and not bhoga marga which shows that UPAPADA IS IN

CANCER (counting from 12H).

>

>

>

>

--

>

> Regards,

> Rafal Gendarz

> www.rohinaa.com

>

> -

> Rohiniranjan

> vedic astrology

> Friday, February 02, 2007 12:35 AM

> [vedic astrology] Re: Upapada Question <what follows

which, and how?>

>

>

> Dear Mr. Gendarz,

>

> What you reiterated about the houses was already there in my

> question, about the 12th and 5th and so on ...!

>

> I also gave the reason why 12th may not be the anuchara, according to

> astronomical reality. The 1st rises after the 12th and the 2nd rises

> after the 1st! So the 'following' is not as simple as some indicate

> or take for granted! No disrespect intended towards the fine

> jyotishis you have named here and their preferences.

>

> The 2nd represents kutumba, the immediate family, so I think marriage

> and wife are more obviously related to the 2nd house, than 12th and

> the shayan sukha which could just mean the quality of sleep one gets!

>

> RR

>

> vedic astrology, "Rafal Gendarz"

> <starsuponme@> wrote:

> >

> > II hraum namah adityaya II

> > Dear RR , Namaskar

> >

> > -------------------------

> ------------

> >

> > Some even take fifth bhava as upapada as they interpreted anuchara

> as son, but anuchara means the 12H of ascendent, anuchara means that

> which follows. This is also with respect to uttara kalamrta defining

> as 12H. There are also views of Neelakantra which You present her for

> odd and even sign but GC Sharma, Sanjay Rath and most of scholars use

> always 12H for counting Upapada as this is connected to paying debts

> to the Pitri's which can be done by Sannyasa (sa) or Married life

> (Ju). Twelfth bhava also shows pleasures of the bed and shows these

> which we want to donate/give so the Shukra avastha has exaltation

> there and is known as Brghu then. Upapada is counted from twelfth

> bhava and its main point for discussing married life of the native.

> >

> > -------------------------

> ------------

> >

> > Regards,

> > Rafal Gendarz

> > www.rohinaa.com

> >

> > -

> > Rohiniranjan

> > vedic astrology

> > Thursday, February 01, 2007 1:02 AM

> > [vedic astrology] Upapada Question <what follows which,

> and how?>

> >

> >

> > Hello Jaimini scholars,

> >

> > UL has created some options in some writings, for example in CS

> Shah's

> > book. He gives the three options: 12th house for odd, 2nd house

> for

> > even risings and also mentions the variant recommendation that

> utilizes

> > using the 5th house from lagna for calculating the upapada.

> >

> > Here is my question: If upapada is the house 'following' lagna,

> should

> > it be based on counting order (12) or rising order (2). When

> lagna is

> > rising, the 12th has already risen! So in that sense lagna is the

> house

> > following the 12th and hence in all signs (odd or even signs) the

> 2nd

> > house rises after lagna or some would say, follows the lagna.

> >

> > Any comments for clarifying this will be kindly appreciated.

> >

> > RR

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Dear RR,

 

You appear to be bit agitated with my mail. I really apologise in

case a single word in my previous msg appears to convey any

disrespect or offence to you, even remotely. My humble submission is

that when we draw a horoscope, we start with determining and fixing

Lagna ,the 1st house of the birth chart, and the 12th house always

follows the 1st house in the chart. If we see the chart anti-

zodiacally the 1st house will follow the 12th house. For me it is as

simple as that. It is upto any individual to understand and judge

the UL by following any sutras , be it as given in BPHS or Jaimini

Sutras or by any other scholar.With best regards.

 

Raj Bhardwaj

Shri Aditya Jyotish Kendra

Panchkula

 

vedic astrology, "Rohiniranjan"

<rohini_ranjan wrote:

>

> Dear Raj,

>

> I have nothing against tradition or scholarly opinions and cited

> research which is vastly unknown (at least some of the ancient

> astrologers). I am not questioning that the research must have been

> done and I am not questioning any claims. All I am pointing out is

> that sometimes evidence that is absent (unknown) is not the best

way

> to give evidence of absence!

>

> Just because someone is questioning what some people have decided

to

> be the case does not close the book for all! Same deal with

ayanamsha

> which is still going strong and people use similar blanket

statemens

> such as gurus have said their piece and panchaang makers have

decided

> in poona which value to use so case closed! Well obviously not!

Then

> people make statements like "Most astrologers use this value or

that

> value". How do they know? Who conducted the global survey? you see

my

> point hopefully!

>

> Just by asking a question, I am not challenging your teacher or

> favourite author but simply the tenet or in some cases the belief!

> Don't take it personally (if you or someone is taking it

personally!).

>

> Now to specifics: I quote,"(a) In Jaimini Sutra Chapter 1 Sutra 1

the

> Maharishi says "UPPADAM

> PITRANUCARAT" I.e. the pada which is anuchar (follower) of Pitra is

> Uppada. The code is deciphered as "AKANAM VAMTO GATI" which

> yields result as 0+1= 1 and denotes Lagna, the first house. So the

> Anuchar of Lagna or which follows the Lagna is the 12th house."

>

> All your code aside, how did you get that that which follows the

first

> is 12th house from this?

>

> If you cared to read what I posted, you would notice that 12th

rises

> before the 1st (visualize it mentally!) so the 1st follows the

12th up

> in the real heavens that can be observed 24/7 and does not require

> some secret code to see reality as it is and as astrology is

supposed

> to be!

>

> RR

>

> vedic astrology, "Raj Bhardwaj"

> <rajbhardwaj1949@> wrote:

> >

> >

> > Dear RR,

> >

> >

> >

> > I would like to add following comments :-

> >

> >

> >

> > (a) In Jaimini Sutra Chapter 1 Sutra 1 the Maharishi

says "UPPADAM

> > PITRANUCARAT" I.e. the pada which is anuchar (follower) of Pitra

is

> > Uppada. The code is deciphered as "AKANAM VAMTO GATI" which

> > yields result as 0+1= 1 and denotes Lagna, the first house. So

the

> > Anuchar of Lagna or which follows the Lagna is the 12th house.

> >

> >

> >

> > (b) There is ofcourse difference of opinion on the meaning of

Anuchar

> > e.g. BPHS treats it as the 5th house. Some commentaries say A-7

also as

> > UL. Some other commentaries say the for odd rashi Lagna it is

from 12th

> > house and for even rashi lagna it is taken from the 2nd house.

> >

> >

> >

> > © However, as per traditions and pactices generally 12th house is

> > taken for UL as per sutra given in (a) above. However, It is

upto and

> > individual practitioner to take any rule, which he feels and

finds to

> > be convenient and practical in predictions.

> >

> >

> >

> > You will appreciate that a great number of scholars like

> >

> > Keshav,Nilkanth,Nrisinh Suri,Premnidhi Prabhriti and further in

the

> > modern times Sh B N Rao, Dr BV Raman and in recent times Sh

Sanjay Rath

> > has done great and in-depth research on giving appropriate

meanings and

> > commentries on the Jaimini Sutras, but these sutras still need

more

> > research, as there are many contradictions amongst the great

scholars,

> > and we should expect future scholars to improve upon the

findings on

> > Jaimini Sutras attempted so far and enrich the modern astrology.

Till

> > then we have no choice , but to either follow the traditionally

accepted

> > rules or follow what one thinks suits his/her individual style

and

> > methods of prediction, or someone amongst us becomes a blessed

scholar

> > and dares to challenge the scholars before us.

> >

> >

> >

> > Raj Bhardwaj

> >

> > Sh Aditya Jyotish Kendra

> >

> > Panchkula

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > vedic astrology, "Rohiniranjan"

> > <rohini_ranjan@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Mr. Gendarz,

> > >

> > > What you reiterated about the houses was already there in my

> > > question, about the 12th and 5th and so on ...!

> > >

> > > I also gave the reason why 12th may not be the anuchara,

according to

> > > astronomical reality. The 1st rises after the 12th and the 2nd

rises

> > > after the 1st! So the 'following' is not as simple as some

indicate

> > > or take for granted! No disrespect intended towards the fine

> > > jyotishis you have named here and their preferences.

> > >

> > > The 2nd represents kutumba, the immediate family, so I think

marriage

> > > and wife are more obviously related to the 2nd house, than

12th and

> > > the shayan sukha which could just mean the quality of sleep

one gets!

> > >

> > > RR

> > >

> > >

> > > vedic astrology, "Rafal Gendarz"

> > > starsuponme@ wrote:

> > > >

> > > > II hraum namah adityaya II

> > > > Dear RR , Namaskar

> > > >

> > > > ----------------------------

-------

> > > ------------

> > > >

> > > > Some even take fifth bhava as upapada as they interpreted

anuchara

> > > as son, but anuchara means the 12H of ascendent, anuchara

means that

> > > which follows. This is also with respect to uttara kalamrta

defining

> > > as 12H. There are also views of Neelakantra which You present

her for

> > > odd and even sign but GC Sharma, Sanjay Rath and most of

scholars use

> > > always 12H for counting Upapada as this is connected to paying

debts

> > > to the Pitri's which can be done by Sannyasa (sa) or Married

life

> > > (Ju). Twelfth bhava also shows pleasures of the bed and shows

these

> > > which we want to donate/give so the Shukra avastha has

exaltation

> > > there and is known as Brghu then. Upapada is counted from

twelfth

> > > bhava and its main point for discussing married life of the

native.

> > > >

> > > > ----------------------------

-------

> > > ------------

> > > >

> > > > Regards,

> > > > Rafal Gendarz

> > > > www.rohinaa.com

> > > >

> > > > -

> > > > Rohiniranjan

> > > > vedic astrology

> > > > Thursday, February 01, 2007 1:02 AM

> > > > [vedic astrology] Upapada Question <what follows

which,

> > > and how?>

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Hello Jaimini scholars,

> > > >

> > > > UL has created some options in some writings, for example in

CS

> > > Shah's

> > > > book. He gives the three options: 12th house for odd, 2nd

house

> > > for

> > > > even risings and also mentions the variant recommendation

that

> > > utilizes

> > > > using the 5th house from lagna for calculating the upapada.

> > > >

> > > > Here is my question: If upapada is the house 'following'

lagna,

> > > should

> > > > it be based on counting order (12) or rising order (2). When

> > > lagna is

> > > > rising, the 12th has already risen! So in that sense lagna

is the

> > > house

> > > > following the 12th and hence in all signs (odd or even

signs) the

> > > 2nd

> > > > house rises after lagna or some would say, follows the lagna.

> > > >

> > > > Any comments for clarifying this will be kindly appreciated.

> > > >

> > > > RR

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Heavens no, Raj-ji! Such a soft-spoken, mild-mannered a person as I am

(those who know me would vouch!) -- agitation would represent a huge

expense of energy for me :-)

Perhaps, that is the maya of internet and email, some of us are

perceived as more aggressive and confrontational when all we are doing

is putting our point forth.

 

If you care to read my original posting in this thread, I had included

what you indicated, namely the 12th being the last house counted.

 

However, even using your very logical description, the 2nd house would

be calculated after the 1st, and hence the (counting/calculating) of

the 2nd house follows that of the lagna(1st)!

 

Something you have stated in your email, the reference to cw and ccw

-- it is interesting that in the north indian square, the

rashis/bhavas follow a counterclockwise progression, while the south

indian chart shows a clockwise progression (almost similar to viewing

the zodiac from a norther or southers vantage point vis a vis the

ecliptic -- but let us leave that aside for the moment).

 

Mind you, what seems so simple and common sense to you and others of

similar following is understandable. Once we have been conditioned to

accepting something too long is often hard to shake-off.

 

Once again, as I pointed to the other participant of this thread, I am

not being rigid as to it should be the 2nd 12th or 5th (3 views

exist). I am just looking at the picture without bias and hoping to

invite discussions and illustrations so that we can look at the three

positions rationally and not just because we think it is common sense

or just because some teacher said so (no disrespect intended).

 

In fact I am being respectful in being willing to open my mind to all

three options offered by ancient astrologers, namely: 12P could be

counted from 12th, 2nd, 5th, variant (12 in even rising, 2nd in odd

rising), etc. And, through our level-headed discussions to explore

what is actually out there in the real world of jyotish which lives in

our lives and not in nicely rounded reality of books and articles and

lessons.

 

I hope you see my clear agenda to simply explore these options and not

to prove a point or to say that what I am saying is the only right

way. Quite the contrary ...

 

RR

 

vedic astrology, "Raj Bhardwaj"

<rajbhardwaj1949 wrote:

>

>

> Dear RR,

>

> You appear to be bit agitated with my mail. I really apologise in

> case a single word in my previous msg appears to convey any

> disrespect or offence to you, even remotely. My humble submission is

> that when we draw a horoscope, we start with determining and fixing

> Lagna ,the 1st house of the birth chart, and the 12th house always

> follows the 1st house in the chart. If we see the chart anti-

> zodiacally the 1st house will follow the 12th house. For me it is as

> simple as that. It is upto any individual to understand and judge

> the UL by following any sutras , be it as given in BPHS or Jaimini

> Sutras or by any other scholar.With best regards.

>

> Raj Bhardwaj

> Shri Aditya Jyotish Kendra

> Panchkula

>

> vedic astrology, "Rohiniranjan"

> <rohini_ranjan@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Raj,

> >

> > I have nothing against tradition or scholarly opinions and cited

> > research which is vastly unknown (at least some of the ancient

> > astrologers). I am not questioning that the research must have been

> > done and I am not questioning any claims. All I am pointing out is

> > that sometimes evidence that is absent (unknown) is not the best

> way

> > to give evidence of absence!

> >

> > Just because someone is questioning what some people have decided

> to

> > be the case does not close the book for all! Same deal with

> ayanamsha

> > which is still going strong and people use similar blanket

> statemens

> > such as gurus have said their piece and panchaang makers have

> decided

> > in poona which value to use so case closed! Well obviously not!

> Then

> > people make statements like "Most astrologers use this value or

> that

> > value". How do they know? Who conducted the global survey? you see

> my

> > point hopefully!

> >

> > Just by asking a question, I am not challenging your teacher or

> > favourite author but simply the tenet or in some cases the belief!

> > Don't take it personally (if you or someone is taking it

> personally!).

> >

> > Now to specifics: I quote,"(a) In Jaimini Sutra Chapter 1 Sutra 1

> the

> > Maharishi says "UPPADAM

> > PITRANUCARAT" I.e. the pada which is anuchar (follower) of Pitra is

> > Uppada. The code is deciphered as "AKANAM VAMTO GATI" which

> > yields result as 0+1= 1 and denotes Lagna, the first house. So the

> > Anuchar of Lagna or which follows the Lagna is the 12th house."

> >

> > All your code aside, how did you get that that which follows the

> first

> > is 12th house from this?

> >

> > If you cared to read what I posted, you would notice that 12th

> rises

> > before the 1st (visualize it mentally!) so the 1st follows the

> 12th up

> > in the real heavens that can be observed 24/7 and does not require

> > some secret code to see reality as it is and as astrology is

> supposed

> > to be!

> >

> > RR

> >

> > vedic astrology, "Raj Bhardwaj"

> > <rajbhardwaj1949@> wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > Dear RR,

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I would like to add following comments :-

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > (a) In Jaimini Sutra Chapter 1 Sutra 1 the Maharishi

> says "UPPADAM

> > > PITRANUCARAT" I.e. the pada which is anuchar (follower) of Pitra

> is

> > > Uppada. The code is deciphered as "AKANAM VAMTO GATI" which

> > > yields result as 0+1= 1 and denotes Lagna, the first house. So

> the

> > > Anuchar of Lagna or which follows the Lagna is the 12th house.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > (b) There is ofcourse difference of opinion on the meaning of

> Anuchar

> > > e.g. BPHS treats it as the 5th house. Some commentaries say A-7

> also as

> > > UL. Some other commentaries say the for odd rashi Lagna it is

> from 12th

> > > house and for even rashi lagna it is taken from the 2nd house.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > © However, as per traditions and pactices generally 12th house is

> > > taken for UL as per sutra given in (a) above. However, It is

> upto and

> > > individual practitioner to take any rule, which he feels and

> finds to

> > > be convenient and practical in predictions.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > You will appreciate that a great number of scholars like

> > >

> > > Keshav,Nilkanth,Nrisinh Suri,Premnidhi Prabhriti and further in

> the

> > > modern times Sh B N Rao, Dr BV Raman and in recent times Sh

> Sanjay Rath

> > > has done great and in-depth research on giving appropriate

> meanings and

> > > commentries on the Jaimini Sutras, but these sutras still need

> more

> > > research, as there are many contradictions amongst the great

> scholars,

> > > and we should expect future scholars to improve upon the

> findings on

> > > Jaimini Sutras attempted so far and enrich the modern astrology.

> Till

> > > then we have no choice , but to either follow the traditionally

> accepted

> > > rules or follow what one thinks suits his/her individual style

> and

> > > methods of prediction, or someone amongst us becomes a blessed

> scholar

> > > and dares to challenge the scholars before us.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Raj Bhardwaj

> > >

> > > Sh Aditya Jyotish Kendra

> > >

> > > Panchkula

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > vedic astrology, "Rohiniranjan"

> > > <rohini_ranjan@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Mr. Gendarz,

> > > >

> > > > What you reiterated about the houses was already there in my

> > > > question, about the 12th and 5th and so on ...!

> > > >

> > > > I also gave the reason why 12th may not be the anuchara,

> according to

> > > > astronomical reality. The 1st rises after the 12th and the 2nd

> rises

> > > > after the 1st! So the 'following' is not as simple as some

> indicate

> > > > or take for granted! No disrespect intended towards the fine

> > > > jyotishis you have named here and their preferences.

> > > >

> > > > The 2nd represents kutumba, the immediate family, so I think

> marriage

> > > > and wife are more obviously related to the 2nd house, than

> 12th and

> > > > the shayan sukha which could just mean the quality of sleep

> one gets!

> > > >

> > > > RR

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > vedic astrology, "Rafal Gendarz"

> > > > starsuponme@ wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > II hraum namah adityaya II

> > > > > Dear RR , Namaskar

> > > > >

> > > > > ----------------------------

> -------

> > > > ------------

> > > > >

> > > > > Some even take fifth bhava as upapada as they interpreted

> anuchara

> > > > as son, but anuchara means the 12H of ascendent, anuchara

> means that

> > > > which follows. This is also with respect to uttara kalamrta

> defining

> > > > as 12H. There are also views of Neelakantra which You present

> her for

> > > > odd and even sign but GC Sharma, Sanjay Rath and most of

> scholars use

> > > > always 12H for counting Upapada as this is connected to paying

> debts

> > > > to the Pitri's which can be done by Sannyasa (sa) or Married

> life

> > > > (Ju). Twelfth bhava also shows pleasures of the bed and shows

> these

> > > > which we want to donate/give so the Shukra avastha has

> exaltation

> > > > there and is known as Brghu then. Upapada is counted from

> twelfth

> > > > bhava and its main point for discussing married life of the

> native.

> > > > >

> > > > > ----------------------------

> -------

> > > > ------------

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards,

> > > > > Rafal Gendarz

> > > > > www.rohinaa.com

> > > > >

> > > > > -

> > > > > Rohiniranjan

> > > > > vedic astrology

> > > > > Thursday, February 01, 2007 1:02 AM

> > > > > [vedic astrology] Upapada Question <what follows

> which,

> > > > and how?>

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Hello Jaimini scholars,

> > > > >

> > > > > UL has created some options in some writings, for example in

> CS

> > > > Shah's

> > > > > book. He gives the three options: 12th house for odd, 2nd

> house

> > > > for

> > > > > even risings and also mentions the variant recommendation

> that

> > > > utilizes

> > > > > using the 5th house from lagna for calculating the upapada.

> > > > >

> > > > > Here is my question: If upapada is the house 'following'

> lagna,

> > > > should

> > > > > it be based on counting order (12) or rising order (2). When

> > > > lagna is

> > > > > rising, the 12th has already risen! So in that sense lagna

> is the

> > > > house

> > > > > following the 12th and hence in all signs (odd or even

> signs) the

> > > > 2nd

> > > > > house rises after lagna or some would say, follows the lagna.

> > > > >

> > > > > Any comments for clarifying this will be kindly appreciated.

> > > > >

> > > > > RR

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >