Upapada Question what follows which, and how?{#2}

[Guest guest]

Mr. Gendarz,

 

Further to my earlier request for documented time and place of the

birth of the vrishchika rising example given by you ---

Thanks for sharing this good example that seems to be a picture

perfect illustration of your take on the upapada, namely that the 12th

from lagna is the seed for upapada calculation. Interestingly, in this

chart the fifth pada also falls in the same house, so someone may

argue that the anuchara (follower) is represented by the 5th house and

therefore upapada should be taken from the fifth and not 12th or 2nd.

>From that angle this is not a good example even if it eliminates the

2nd house as you have described. Now, how often this 'glove fits' in

randomly selected charts is anyone's guess! Also, another thing to

consider would be that upapada alone may not completely describe

solely the spouse but more the nature of the marital life etc, whereas

dara/kalatra pada would perhaps have a say in describing the nature of

the spouse etc. In this chart (I hope you did not have to change the

original birthtime drastically which would then confound the issue

even more!).

 

The pada of the 7th house falls in the 5th a karmic house which holds

sun and mercury. Sun as we know also represents aging or older persons

(many individuals with sun rising will look older than they actually

are and often have loss of hair etc the other indicator of old age,

while saturn rising generally gives a younger look, again not in 100%

cases obviously). Sun is with debilitated but cancelled mercury and

both are in saturn's star which is placed in the 9th. The spiritual

angle fits in this scheme. Also, the dispositor of the 7th pada is

guru and it is placed in the 7th house itself and given its dharmic

nature can be explained with the alternative manner that I am

describing. Cancer (her rising) is in trikona from the 7th pada and

cancer is also ruled by moon which is the darakaraka (I use an

ayanamsha that is closer to Raman -- you are probably getting moon as

atmakaraka!). As far as the 'water' is concerned pisces is as watery

if not more than cancer, if you catch my drift!

 

You see this is the 'quandry' if you wish to call it, in jyotish.

Sometimes when one factor in a given horoscope begins to look too

sweet, one must become cautious as the factor may not work in the next

chart. All jyotishis will admit to themselves that, and more need to

come out and admit publicly so that we don't create unreasonable

expectations in the great unwashed (as the expression goes).

 

I hope you take the time to read this message and not react to it

superficially. Once again, I am not pointing fingers at anyone

directly or confrontationally, be they ancient teachers or modern or

their views. I am personally not sold rigidly on this issue of upapada

also, as I have shown here, there are many ways to peel a banana and

to enjoy it equally! Mystically, that is one of the strengths of

astrology as a divinatory craft!

 

RR

 

 

vedic astrology, "Rafal Gendarz"

<starsuponme wrote:

>

> II hraum namah adityaya II

> Dear RR, Namaskar

>

>

--

>

> 1)Try Uttara Kalamrta - Effects of the Planets and Houses.

> 2) Try this chart:

>

> March 17, 1977

> Time: 0:19:17

> Time Zone: 1:00:00 (East of GMT)

> Place: 19 E 01' 10", 50 N 16' 10"

>

> Upapada per Bphs, JS, Uttara Kalamrta indicate partner and their

hapiness along with progeniture (bphs).

>

> a)Upapada counted from 12H = Cancer.

>

> b)Upapada counted from 2H = Libra.

>

> a) Cancer is in ninth bhava so they meet in temple. Sani indicate

older person. She must have

> one of these Lagna's : cancer, scorpio, pisces, capricorn. Mangal

aspecting giving martial traits,

> Parivartana shows that she is quite spiritual (mo-sa along 3/9).

They meet in place related to watter(cap or can-after parivartana)

>

> b) Upapada in twelfht bhava with rahu indicate foreinger. Person

likes to prove better than others(rahu)

> and is quite interested in bhoga marga(rahu) colured with parties

(ve), they meet in some place

> related to port (aries) or battleground. It can be Libra, Aqaiurs,

Gemini, Aries Lagna's of partner.

>

> Reality is that person is older (Sani) has Cancer Lagna (UL in

cancer) they meet in temple (ninth bhava) near water (Cn/Cp) she is

spiritual (mo/sa) and not bhoga marga which shows that UPAPADA IS IN

CANCER (counting from 12H).

>

>

>

>

--

>

> Regards,

> Rafal Gendarz

> www.rohinaa.com

>

> -

> Rohiniranjan

> vedic astrology

> Friday, February 02, 2007 12:35 AM

> [vedic astrology] Re: Upapada Question <what follows

which, and how?>

>

>

> Dear Mr. Gendarz,

>

> What you reiterated about the houses was already there in my

> question, about the 12th and 5th and so on ...!

>

> I also gave the reason why 12th may not be the anuchara, according to

> astronomical reality. The 1st rises after the 12th and the 2nd rises

> after the 1st! So the 'following' is not as simple as some indicate

> or take for granted! No disrespect intended towards the fine

> jyotishis you have named here and their preferences.

>

> The 2nd represents kutumba, the immediate family, so I think marriage

> and wife are more obviously related to the 2nd house, than 12th and

> the shayan sukha which could just mean the quality of sleep one gets!

>

> RR

>

> vedic astrology, "Rafal Gendarz"

> <starsuponme@> wrote:

> >

> > II hraum namah adityaya II

> > Dear RR , Namaskar

> >

> > -------------------------

> ------------

> >

> > Some even take fifth bhava as upapada as they interpreted anuchara

> as son, but anuchara means the 12H of ascendent, anuchara means that

> which follows. This is also with respect to uttara kalamrta defining

> as 12H. There are also views of Neelakantra which You present her for

> odd and even sign but GC Sharma, Sanjay Rath and most of scholars use

> always 12H for counting Upapada as this is connected to paying debts

> to the Pitri's which can be done by Sannyasa (sa) or Married life

> (Ju). Twelfth bhava also shows pleasures of the bed and shows these

> which we want to donate/give so the Shukra avastha has exaltation

> there and is known as Brghu then. Upapada is counted from twelfth

> bhava and its main point for discussing married life of the native.

> >

> > -------------------------

> ------------

> >

> > Regards,

> > Rafal Gendarz

> > www.rohinaa.com

> >

> > -

> > Rohiniranjan

> > vedic astrology

> > Thursday, February 01, 2007 1:02 AM

> > [vedic astrology] Upapada Question <what follows which,

> and how?>

> >

> >

> > Hello Jaimini scholars,

> >

> > UL has created some options in some writings, for example in CS

> Shah's

> > book. He gives the three options: 12th house for odd, 2nd house

> for

> > even risings and also mentions the variant recommendation that

> utilizes

> > using the 5th house from lagna for calculating the upapada.

> >

> > Here is my question: If upapada is the house 'following' lagna,

> should

> > it be based on counting order (12) or rising order (2). When

> lagna is

> > rising, the 12th has already risen! So in that sense lagna is the

> house

> > following the 12th and hence in all signs (odd or even signs) the

> 2nd

> > house rises after lagna or some would say, follows the lagna.

> >

> > Any comments for clarifying this will be kindly appreciated.

> >

> > RR

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >