Guest guest Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 hare rama krsna Dear RR, Namaskar comments below. Regards Rafal Gendarz www.rohinaa.com Dnia 3-02-2007 o godz. 16:17 Rohiniranjan napisa³(a): Elementy potencjalnie niebezpieczne zosta³y zablokowane. Mr. Gendarz, Further to my earlier request for documented time and place of the birth of the vrishchika rising example given by you --- Thanks for sharing this good example that seems to be a picture perfect illustration of your take on the upapada, namely that the 12th from lagna is the seed for upapada calculation. Interestingly, in this chart the fifth pada also falls in the same house, so someone may argue that the anuchara (follower) is represented by the 5th house and therefore upapada should be taken from the fifth and not 12th or 2nd. [rafal] Yes, therefore no method for veryfing knowledge depends on one example. Like Ayurveda Jyotish should depend on a)theory and b) practice. This first prima facie depends a)pratyaksa b) anumana c) sabda. So try to use sabda by faith, pratyaksa by health and anumana by mental strength. Infact on my site You can find sambandha article where these things are mentioned. Practice will make You strong in accepting things and if not what to do.. >From that angle this is not a good example even if it eliminates the 2nd house as you have described. Now, how often this 'glove fits' in randomly selected charts is anyone's guess! Also, another thing to consider would be that upapada alone may not completely describe solely the spouse but more the nature of the marital life etc, whereas dara/kalatra pada would perhaps have a say in describing the nature of the spouse etc. In this chart (I hope you did not have to change the original birthtime drastically which would then confound the issue even more!). [rafal] A7 is for sambandha while UL is for Vivaha, let us be clear on this. Darapada can give love marriage if connected to Upapada. Darapada shows all persons which will come to You attracted by Your personality. Therefore a7 shows those who which to take, while UL those who wish to give. Hopefully all agree that marriage is giving (venus uccha in meena rasi - vyaya bhava in naisargika kundali). The pada of the 7th house falls in the 5th a karmic house which holds sun and mercury. Sun as we know also represents aging or older persons (many individuals with sun rising will look older than they actually are and often have loss of hair etc the other indicator of old age, while saturn rising generally gives a younger look, again not in 100% cases obviously). Sun is with debilitated but cancelled mercury and both are in saturn's star which is placed in the 9th. The spiritual angle fits in this scheme. Also, the dispositor of the 7th pada is guru and it is placed in the 7th house itself and given its dharmic nature can be explained with the alternative manner that I am describing. Cancer (her rising) is in trikona from the 7th pada and cancer is also ruled by moon which is the darakaraka (I use an ayanamsha that is closer to Raman -- you are probably getting moon as atmakaraka!). As far as the 'water' is concerned pisces is as watery if not more than cancer, if you catch my drift! You see this is the 'quandry' if you wish to call it, in jyotish. Sometimes when one factor in a given horoscope begins to look too sweet, one must become cautious as the factor may not work in the next chart. All jyotishis will admit to themselves that, and more need to come out and admit publicly so that we don't create unreasonable expectations in the great unwashed (as the expression goes). I hope you take the time to read this message and not react to it superficially. Once again, I am not pointing fingers at anyone directly or confrontationally, be they ancient teachers or modern or their views. I am personally not sold rigidly on this issue of upapada also, as I have shown here, there are many ways to peel a banana and to enjoy it equally! Mystically, that is one of the strengths of astrology as a divinatory craft! RR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 If that is the case Dear Mr. Gendarz ("7P only for sambandha and 12P for vivaha") then why does jyotish ascribe marriage and marriage partner to the 7th house in the chart and not to the 12th house? Or is everyone else sadly mistaken on that matter, as well ;-) RR vedic astrology, "Rafal" <starsuponme wrote: > > > hare rama krsna > > Dear RR, Namaskar > > comments below. > > Regards > > Rafal Gendarz > > www.rohinaa.com > > > > > > > > Dnia 3-02-2007 o godz. 16:17 Rohiniranjan napisa³(a): > > > Elementy potencjalnie niebezpieczne zosta³y zablokowane. > Mr. Gendarz, > > Further to my earlier request for documented time and place of the > birth of the vrishchika rising example given by you --- > Thanks for sharing this good example that seems to be a picture > perfect illustration of your take on the upapada, namely that the > 12th > from lagna is the seed for upapada calculation. Interestingly, in > this > chart the fifth pada also falls in the same house, so someone may > argue that the anuchara (follower) is represented by the 5th house > and > therefore upapada should be taken from the fifth and not 12th or 2nd. > > [rafal] Yes, therefore no method for veryfing knowledge depends on > one example. Like Ayurveda Jyotish should depend on a)theory and b) > practice. This first prima facie depends a)pratyaksa b) anumana c) > sabda. So try to use sabda by faith, pratyaksa by health and anumana > by mental strength. > > Infact on my site You can find sambandha article where these things > are mentioned. Practice will make You strong in accepting things and > if not what to do.. > > > From that angle this is not a good example even if it eliminates the > 2nd house as you have described. Now, how often this 'glove fits' in > randomly selected charts is anyone's guess! Also, another thing to > consider would be that upapada alone may not completely describe > solely the spouse but more the nature of the marital life etc, > whereas > dara/kalatra pada would perhaps have a say in describing the nature > of > the spouse etc. In this chart (I hope you did not have to change the > original birthtime drastically which would then confound the issue > even more!). > > > > [rafal] A7 is for sambandha while UL is for Vivaha, let us be clear > on this. Darapada can give love marriage if connected to Upapada. > Darapada shows all persons which will come to You attracted by Your > personality. Therefore a7 shows those who which to take, while UL > those who wish to give. Hopefully all agree that marriage is giving > (venus uccha in meena rasi - vyaya bhava in naisargika kundali). > > The pada of the 7th house falls in the 5th a karmic house which holds > sun and mercury. Sun as we know also represents aging or older > persons > (many individuals with sun rising will look older than they actually > are and often have loss of hair etc the other indicator of old age, > while saturn rising generally gives a younger look, again not in 100% > cases obviously). Sun is with debilitated but cancelled mercury and > both are in saturn's star which is placed in the 9th. The spiritual > angle fits in this scheme. Also, the dispositor of the 7th pada is > guru and it is placed in the 7th house itself and given its dharmic > nature can be explained with the alternative manner that I am > describing. Cancer (her rising) is in trikona from the 7th pada and > cancer is also ruled by moon which is the darakaraka (I use an > ayanamsha that is closer to Raman -- you are probably getting moon as > atmakaraka!). As far as the 'water' is concerned pisces is as watery > if not more than cancer, if you catch my drift! > > You see this is the 'quandry' if you wish to call it, in jyotish. > Sometimes when one factor in a given horoscope begins to look too > sweet, one must become cautious as the factor may not work in the > next > chart. All jyotishis will admit to themselves that, and more need to > come out and admit publicly so that we don't create unreasonable > expectations in the great unwashed (as the expression goes). > > I hope you take the time to read this message and not react to it > superficially. Once again, I am not pointing fingers at anyone > directly or confrontationally, be they ancient teachers or modern or > their views. I am personally not sold rigidly on this issue of > upapada > also, as I have shown here, there are many ways to peel a banana and > to enjoy it equally! Mystically, that is one of the strengths of > astrology as a divinatory craft! > > RR > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 hraum namah adityaya Dear RR, Namaskar Your question is stepstone in getting things clearer. Primo try to understand that bhava's from Arudha signify something different than bhava's from Lagna. Then arudha's of bhava show something different than bhava's from Lagna. Second issue is that twelfth bhava (from Lagna) is very important for marriage and Parasara Rsi says this clearly (about avastha/bhava of 12L). Seventh bhava shows our partners and attitude towards them and only one of them becomes Upapada - this is person which after working in realm of relationship (6 from 7H) become object of our effort and we sacrifice for partner (12H). So Rasi 7H shows circumstances(7L in 12H - poor background of lover) and attitude (7L in 6H with Saturn - we like person who are servant-like - King Henry III example). Now seventh bhava in Navamsa is about spouse independently and here we can see his choices, work and parents because Rasi is YOU and Navamsa is Kalatra (Parasara)! So You can see A7 in D9 because now this person arudha matters (and that is what Sanjay Rath do in his paper about marriage). I consider Your questions/doubts but I'll try to to understand logic of Maharsis. Regards Rafal Gendarz vedic astrology, "Rohiniranjan" <rohini_ranjan wrote: > > If that is the case Dear Mr. Gendarz ("7P only for sambandha and 12P > for vivaha") then why does jyotish ascribe marriage and marriage > partner to the 7th house in the chart and not to the 12th house? Or is > everyone else sadly mistaken on that matter, as well ;-) > > > RR > > vedic astrology, "Rafal" <starsuponme@> wrote: > > > > > > hare rama krsna > > > > Dear RR, Namaskar > > > > comments below. > > > > Regards > > > > Rafal Gendarz > > > > www.rohinaa.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dnia 3-02-2007 o godz. 16:17 Rohiniranjan napisa³(a): > > > > > > Elementy potencjalnie niebezpieczne zosta³y zablokowane. > > Mr. Gendarz, > > > > Further to my earlier request for documented time and place of the > > birth of the vrishchika rising example given by you --- > > Thanks for sharing this good example that seems to be a picture > > perfect illustration of your take on the upapada, namely that the > > 12th > > from lagna is the seed for upapada calculation. Interestingly, in > > this > > chart the fifth pada also falls in the same house, so someone may > > argue that the anuchara (follower) is represented by the 5th house > > and > > therefore upapada should be taken from the fifth and not 12th or 2nd. > > > > [rafal] Yes, therefore no method for veryfing knowledge depends on > > one example. Like Ayurveda Jyotish should depend on a)theory and b) > > practice. This first prima facie depends a)pratyaksa b) anumana c) > > sabda. So try to use sabda by faith, pratyaksa by health and anumana > > by mental strength. > > > > Infact on my site You can find sambandha article where these things > > are mentioned. Practice will make You strong in accepting things and > > if not what to do.. > > > > > > From that angle this is not a good example even if it eliminates the > > 2nd house as you have described. Now, how often this 'glove fits' in > > randomly selected charts is anyone's guess! Also, another thing to > > consider would be that upapada alone may not completely describe > > solely the spouse but more the nature of the marital life etc, > > whereas > > dara/kalatra pada would perhaps have a say in describing the nature > > of > > the spouse etc. In this chart (I hope you did not have to change the > > original birthtime drastically which would then confound the issue > > even more!). > > > > > > > > [rafal] A7 is for sambandha while UL is for Vivaha, let us be clear > > on this. Darapada can give love marriage if connected to Upapada. > > Darapada shows all persons which will come to You attracted by Your > > personality. Therefore a7 shows those who which to take, while UL > > those who wish to give. Hopefully all agree that marriage is giving > > (venus uccha in meena rasi - vyaya bhava in naisargika kundali). > > > > The pada of the 7th house falls in the 5th a karmic house which holds > > sun and mercury. Sun as we know also represents aging or older > > persons > > (many individuals with sun rising will look older than they actually > > are and often have loss of hair etc the other indicator of old age, > > while saturn rising generally gives a younger look, again not in 100% > > cases obviously). Sun is with debilitated but cancelled mercury and > > both are in saturn's star which is placed in the 9th. The spiritual > > angle fits in this scheme. Also, the dispositor of the 7th pada is > > guru and it is placed in the 7th house itself and given its dharmic > > nature can be explained with the alternative manner that I am > > describing. Cancer (her rising) is in trikona from the 7th pada and > > cancer is also ruled by moon which is the darakaraka (I use an > > ayanamsha that is closer to Raman -- you are probably getting moon as > > atmakaraka!). As far as the 'water' is concerned pisces is as watery > > if not more than cancer, if you catch my drift! > > > > You see this is the 'quandry' if you wish to call it, in jyotish. > > Sometimes when one factor in a given horoscope begins to look too > > sweet, one must become cautious as the factor may not work in the > > next > > chart. All jyotishis will admit to themselves that, and more need to > > come out and admit publicly so that we don't create unreasonable > > expectations in the great unwashed (as the expression goes). > > > > I hope you take the time to read this message and not react to it > > superficially. Once again, I am not pointing fingers at anyone > > directly or confrontationally, be they ancient teachers or modern or > > their views. I am personally not sold rigidly on this issue of > > upapada > > also, as I have shown here, there are many ways to peel a banana and > > to enjoy it equally! Mystically, that is one of the strengths of > > astrology as a divinatory craft! > > > > RR > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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