To Mr. Gendarz -- Jyotish is elegant and hence must be simple!

February 3, 2007

Mr. Gendarz,

Instead of dancing all over the stage, and acting unctorial and

patronizing, can we get to the core problem?

Has it been settled in this thread if UL should be counted from the

12, 2 or 5th?

NO! Because only one example was used and it has been clearly shown

by me to be confounded!

My question remains intact as it was right at the root of the thread.

No mysterious code or cloistered secret vault where knowledge is

claimed to exist exclusively or similar maya will impress me.

Jyotish, like nature must be simple and direct and should not need

all this cloak and dagger and myrrh and smoke and multifactorial

explanations as seems to have become the vogue in some circles!

RR

vedic astrology, "Rafal" <starsuponme

wrote:

>

> hraum namah adityaya

>

> Dear RR, Namaskar

>

> Your question is stepstone in getting things clearer. Primo try to

> understand that bhava's from Arudha signify something different

than

> bhava's from Lagna. Then arudha's of bhava show something different

> than bhava's from Lagna.

>

> Second issue is that twelfth bhava (from Lagna) is very important

> for marriage and Parasara Rsi says this clearly (about

avastha/bhava

> of 12L).

>

> Seventh bhava shows our partners and attitude towards them and only

> one of them becomes Upapada - this is person which after working in

> realm of relationship (6 from 7H) become object of our effort and

we

> sacrifice for partner (12H).

>

> So Rasi 7H shows circumstances(7L in 12H - poor background of

> lover) and attitude (7L in 6H with Saturn - we like person who are

> servant-like - King Henry III example).

>

> Now seventh bhava in Navamsa is about spouse independently and here

> we can see his choices, work and parents because Rasi is YOU and

> Navamsa is Kalatra (Parasara)!

>

> So You can see A7 in D9 because now this person arudha matters

(and

> that is what Sanjay Rath do in his paper about marriage).

>

> I consider Your questions/doubts but I'll try to to understand

> logic of Maharsis.

>

> Regards

>

> Rafal Gendarz

>

> vedic astrology, "Rohiniranjan"

> <rohini_ranjan@> wrote:

> >

> > If that is the case Dear Mr. Gendarz ("7P only for sambandha and

> 12P

> > for vivaha") then why does jyotish ascribe marriage and marriage

> > partner to the 7th house in the chart and not to the 12th house?

> Or is

> > everyone else sadly mistaken on that matter, as well ;-)

> >

> > RR

> >

> > vedic astrology, "Rafal" <starsuponme@>

> wrote:

> > >

> > > hare rama krsna

> > >

> > > Dear RR, Namaskar

> > >

> > > comments below.

> > >

> > > Regards

> > >

> > > Rafal Gendarz

> > >

> > > www.rohinaa.com

> > >

> > > Dnia 3-02-2007 o godz. 16:17 Rohiniranjan napisa³(a):

> > >

> > > Elementy potencjalnie niebezpieczne zosta³y zablokowane.

> > > Mr. Gendarz,

> > >

> > > Further to my earlier request for documented time and place of

> the

> > > birth of the vrishchika rising example given by you ---

> > > Thanks for sharing this good example that seems to be a picture

> > > perfect illustration of your take on the upapada, namely that

> the

> > > 12th

> > > from lagna is the seed for upapada calculation. Interestingly,

> in

> > > this

> > > chart the fifth pada also falls in the same house, so someone

may

> > > argue that the anuchara (follower) is represented by the 5th

> house

> > > and

> > > therefore upapada should be taken from the fifth and not 12th

or

> 2nd.

> > >

> > > [rafal] Yes, therefore no method for veryfing knowledge

depends

> on

> > > one example. Like Ayurveda Jyotish should depend on a)theory

and

> b)

> > > practice. This first prima facie depends a)pratyaksa b) anumana

> c)

> > > sabda. So try to use sabda by faith, pratyaksa by health and

> anumana

> > > by mental strength.

> > >

> > > Infact on my site You can find sambandha article where these

> things

> > > are mentioned. Practice will make You strong in accepting

things

> and

> > > if not what to do..

> > >

> > > From that angle this is not a good example even if it

eliminates

> the

> > > 2nd house as you have described. Now, how often this 'glove

> fits' in

> > > randomly selected charts is anyone's guess! Also, another thing

> to

> > > consider would be that upapada alone may not completely describe

> > > solely the spouse but more the nature of the marital life etc,

> > > whereas

> > > dara/kalatra pada would perhaps have a say in describing the

> nature

> > > of

> > > the spouse etc. In this chart (I hope you did not have to

change

> the

> > > original birthtime drastically which would then confound the

> issue

> > > even more!).

> > >

> > > [rafal] A7 is for sambandha while UL is for Vivaha, let us be

> clear

> > > on this. Darapada can give love marriage if connected to

> Upapada.

> > > Darapada shows all persons which will come to You attracted by

> Your

> > > personality. Therefore a7 shows those who which to take, while

> UL

> > > those who wish to give. Hopefully all agree that marriage is

> giving

> > > (venus uccha in meena rasi - vyaya bhava in naisargika kundali).

> > >

> > > The pada of the 7th house falls in the 5th a karmic house which

> holds

> > > sun and mercury. Sun as we know also represents aging or older

> > > persons

> > > (many individuals with sun rising will look older than they

> actually

> > > are and often have loss of hair etc the other indicator of old

> age,

> > > while saturn rising generally gives a younger look, again not

in

> 100%

> > > cases obviously). Sun is with debilitated but cancelled mercury

> and

> > > both are in saturn's star which is placed in the 9th. The

> spiritual

> > > angle fits in this scheme. Also, the dispositor of the 7th pada

> is

> > > guru and it is placed in the 7th house itself and given its

> dharmic

> > > nature can be explained with the alternative manner that I am

> > > describing. Cancer (her rising) is in trikona from the 7th pada

> and

> > > cancer is also ruled by moon which is the darakaraka (I use an

> > > ayanamsha that is closer to Raman -- you are probably getting

> moon as

> > > atmakaraka!). As far as the 'water' is concerned pisces is as

> watery

> > > if not more than cancer, if you catch my drift!

> > >

> > > You see this is the 'quandry' if you wish to call it, in

jyotish.

> > > Sometimes when one factor in a given horoscope begins to look

too

> > > sweet, one must become cautious as the factor may not work in

> the

> > > next

> > > chart. All jyotishis will admit to themselves that, and more

> need to

> > > come out and admit publicly so that we don't create unreasonable

> > > expectations in the great unwashed (as the expression goes).

> > >

> > > I hope you take the time to read this message and not react to

it

> > > superficially. Once again, I am not pointing fingers at anyone

> > > directly or confrontationally, be they ancient teachers or

> modern or

> > > their views. I am personally not sold rigidly on this issue of

> > > upapada

> > > also, as I have shown here, there are many ways to peel a

banana

> and

> > > to enjoy it equally! Mystically, that is one of the strengths of

> > > astrology as a divinatory craft!

> > >

> > > RR

> > >

> >

>

February 3, 2007

hare rama krsna

Dear RR, Namaskar

1. Im trying go to core of the problem but doubts are blocking

(rahu).Therefore accepting Guru (remedy for Ra-Deva Keralam) makes

Jyotish very simple but still noble.

2. Why one example? I referred to my article about Sambandha.

I can only direct, rest is up to You.

Regards

Rafal Gendarz

vedic astrology, "Rohiniranjan"

<rohini_ranjan wrote:

>

> Mr. Gendarz,

>

> Instead of dancing all over the stage, and acting unctorial and

> patronizing, can we get to the core problem?

>

> Has it been settled in this thread if UL should be counted from

the

> 12, 2 or 5th?

>

> NO! Because only one example was used and it has been clearly

shown

> by me to be confounded!

>

> My question remains intact as it was right at the root of the

thread.

>

> No mysterious code or cloistered secret vault where knowledge is

> claimed to exist exclusively or similar maya will impress me.

>

> Jyotish, like nature must be simple and direct and should not need

> all this cloak and dagger and myrrh and smoke and multifactorial

> explanations as seems to have become the vogue in some circles!

>

> RR

>

> vedic astrology, "Rafal" <starsuponme@>

> wrote:

> >

> > hraum namah adityaya

> >

> > Dear RR, Namaskar

> >

> > Your question is stepstone in getting things clearer. Primo try

to

> > understand that bhava's from Arudha signify something different

> than

> > bhava's from Lagna. Then arudha's of bhava show something

different

> > than bhava's from Lagna.

> >

> > Second issue is that twelfth bhava (from Lagna) is very

important

> > for marriage and Parasara Rsi says this clearly (about

> avastha/bhava

> > of 12L).

> >

> > Seventh bhava shows our partners and attitude towards them and

only

> > one of them becomes Upapada - this is person which after working

in

> > realm of relationship (6 from 7H) become object of our effort

and

> we

> > sacrifice for partner (12H).

> >

> > So Rasi 7H shows circumstances(7L in 12H - poor background of

> > lover) and attitude (7L in 6H with Saturn - we like person who

are

> > servant-like - King Henry III example).

> >

> > Now seventh bhava in Navamsa is about spouse independently and

here

> > we can see his choices, work and parents because Rasi is YOU and

> > Navamsa is Kalatra (Parasara)!

> >

> > So You can see A7 in D9 because now this person arudha matters

> (and

> > that is what Sanjay Rath do in his paper about marriage).

> >

> > I consider Your questions/doubts but I'll try to to understand

> > logic of Maharsis.

> >

> > Regards

> >

> > Rafal Gendarz

> >

> > vedic astrology, "Rohiniranjan"

> > <rohini_ranjan@> wrote:

> > >

> > > If that is the case Dear Mr. Gendarz ("7P only for sambandha

and

> > 12P

> > > for vivaha") then why does jyotish ascribe marriage and

marriage

> > > partner to the 7th house in the chart and not to the 12th

house?

> > Or is

> > > everyone else sadly mistaken on that matter, as well ;-)

> > >

> > > RR

> > >

> > > vedic astrology, "Rafal" <starsuponme@>

> > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > hare rama krsna

> > > >

> > > > Dear RR, Namaskar

> > > >

> > > > comments below.

> > > >

> > > > Regards

> > > >

> > > > Rafal Gendarz

> > > >

> > > > www.rohinaa.com

> > > >

> > > > Dnia 3-02-2007 o godz. 16:17 Rohiniranjan napisa³(a):

> > > >

> > > > Elementy potencjalnie niebezpieczne zosta³y zablokowane.

> > > > Mr. Gendarz,

> > > >

> > > > Further to my earlier request for documented time and place

of

> > the

> > > > birth of the vrishchika rising example given by you ---

> > > > Thanks for sharing this good example that seems to be a

picture

> > > > perfect illustration of your take on the upapada, namely

that

> > the

> > > > 12th

> > > > from lagna is the seed for upapada calculation.

Interestingly,

> > in

> > > > this

> > > > chart the fifth pada also falls in the same house, so

someone

> may

> > > > argue that the anuchara (follower) is represented by the 5th

> > house

> > > > and

> > > > therefore upapada should be taken from the fifth and not

12th

> or

> > 2nd.

> > > >

> > > > [rafal] Yes, therefore no method for veryfing knowledge

> depends

> > on

> > > > one example. Like Ayurveda Jyotish should depend on a)theory

> and

> > b)

> > > > practice. This first prima facie depends a)pratyaksa b)

anumana

> > c)

> > > > sabda. So try to use sabda by faith, pratyaksa by health and

> > anumana

> > > > by mental strength.

> > > >

> > > > Infact on my site You can find sambandha article where these

> > things

> > > > are mentioned. Practice will make You strong in accepting

> things

> > and

> > > > if not what to do..

> > > >

> > > > From that angle this is not a good example even if it

> eliminates

> > the

> > > > 2nd house as you have described. Now, how often this 'glove

> > fits' in

> > > > randomly selected charts is anyone's guess! Also, another

thing

> > to

> > > > consider would be that upapada alone may not completely

describe

> > > > solely the spouse but more the nature of the marital life

etc,

> > > > whereas

> > > > dara/kalatra pada would perhaps have a say in describing the

> > nature

> > > > of

> > > > the spouse etc. In this chart (I hope you did not have to

> change

> > the

> > > > original birthtime drastically which would then confound the

> > issue

> > > > even more!).

> > > >

> > > > [rafal] A7 is for sambandha while UL is for Vivaha, let us

be

> > clear

> > > > on this. Darapada can give love marriage if connected to

> > Upapada.

> > > > Darapada shows all persons which will come to You attracted

by

> > Your

> > > > personality. Therefore a7 shows those who which to take,

while

> > UL

> > > > those who wish to give. Hopefully all agree that marriage is

> > giving

> > > > (venus uccha in meena rasi - vyaya bhava in naisargika

kundali).

> > > >

> > > > The pada of the 7th house falls in the 5th a karmic house

which

> > holds

> > > > sun and mercury. Sun as we know also represents aging or

older

> > > > persons

> > > > (many individuals with sun rising will look older than they

> > actually

> > > > are and often have loss of hair etc the other indicator of

old

> > age,

> > > > while saturn rising generally gives a younger look, again

not

> in

> > 100%

> > > > cases obviously). Sun is with debilitated but cancelled

mercury

> > and

> > > > both are in saturn's star which is placed in the 9th. The

> > spiritual

> > > > angle fits in this scheme. Also, the dispositor of the 7th

pada

> > is

> > > > guru and it is placed in the 7th house itself and given its

> > dharmic

> > > > nature can be explained with the alternative manner that I am

> > > > describing. Cancer (her rising) is in trikona from the 7th

pada

> > and

> > > > cancer is also ruled by moon which is the darakaraka (I use

an

> > > > ayanamsha that is closer to Raman -- you are probably

getting

> > moon as

> > > > atmakaraka!). As far as the 'water' is concerned pisces is

as

> > watery

> > > > if not more than cancer, if you catch my drift!

> > > >

> > > > You see this is the 'quandry' if you wish to call it, in

> jyotish.

> > > > Sometimes when one factor in a given horoscope begins to

look

> too

> > > > sweet, one must become cautious as the factor may not work

in

> > the

> > > > next

> > > > chart. All jyotishis will admit to themselves that, and more

> > need to

> > > > come out and admit publicly so that we don't create

unreasonable

> > > > expectations in the great unwashed (as the expression goes).

> > > >

> > > > I hope you take the time to read this message and not react

to

> it

> > > > superficially. Once again, I am not pointing fingers at

anyone

> > > > directly or confrontationally, be they ancient teachers or

> > modern or

> > > > their views. I am personally not sold rigidly on this issue

of

> > > > upapada

> > > > also, as I have shown here, there are many ways to peel a

> banana

> > and

> > > > to enjoy it equally! Mystically, that is one of the

strengths of

> > > > astrology as a divinatory craft!

> > > >

> > > > RR

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

February 3, 2007

Mr. Gendarz,

I do have a Guru! She talks to me straight and does not use strange

and shifting logic and does not doctor rules and parameters to suit

what gets her point across! She respects my intelligence and more

importantly, my memory and recall ;-)

I would take the doubts which by your reckoning (or was it some Rsi

that whispered in your ear that gem of knowledge?) rahu anytime than

the mish-mash and spiritually confused ketu particularly when it

clouds the jupiter and places a veil that is thick as the smog

floating over some industrial areas in this world ;-)

RR

PS: And I had such hopes! ;-)

vedic astrology, "Rafal" <starsuponme

wrote:

>

> hare rama krsna

> Dear RR, Namaskar

>

> 1. Im trying go to core of the problem but doubts are blocking

> (rahu).Therefore accepting Guru (remedy for Ra-Deva Keralam) makes

> Jyotish very simple but still noble.

> 2. Why one example? I referred to my article about Sambandha.

>

> I can only direct, rest is up to You.

>

> Regards

> Rafal Gendarz

>

> vedic astrology, "Rohiniranjan"

> <rohini_ranjan@> wrote:

> >

> > Mr. Gendarz,

> >

> > Instead of dancing all over the stage, and acting unctorial and

> > patronizing, can we get to the core problem?

> >

> > Has it been settled in this thread if UL should be counted from

> the

> > 12, 2 or 5th?

> >

> > NO! Because only one example was used and it has been clearly

> shown

> > by me to be confounded!

> >

> > My question remains intact as it was right at the root of the

> thread.

> >

> > No mysterious code or cloistered secret vault where knowledge is

> > claimed to exist exclusively or similar maya will impress me.

> >

> > Jyotish, like nature must be simple and direct and should not

need

> > all this cloak and dagger and myrrh and smoke and multifactorial

> > explanations as seems to have become the vogue in some circles!

> >

> > RR

> >

> > vedic astrology, "Rafal" <starsuponme@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > hraum namah adityaya

> > >

> > > Dear RR, Namaskar

> > >

> > > Your question is stepstone in getting things clearer. Primo try

> to

> > > understand that bhava's from Arudha signify something different

> > than

> > > bhava's from Lagna. Then arudha's of bhava show something

> different

> > > than bhava's from Lagna.

> > >

> > > Second issue is that twelfth bhava (from Lagna) is very

> important

> > > for marriage and Parasara Rsi says this clearly (about

> > avastha/bhava

> > > of 12L).

> > >

> > > Seventh bhava shows our partners and attitude towards them and

> only

> > > one of them becomes Upapada - this is person which after

working

> in

> > > realm of relationship (6 from 7H) become object of our effort

> and

> > we

> > > sacrifice for partner (12H).

> > >

> > > So Rasi 7H shows circumstances(7L in 12H - poor background of

> > > lover) and attitude (7L in 6H with Saturn - we like person who

> are

> > > servant-like - King Henry III example).

> > >

> > > Now seventh bhava in Navamsa is about spouse independently and

> here

> > > we can see his choices, work and parents because Rasi is YOU

and

> > > Navamsa is Kalatra (Parasara)!

> > >

> > > So You can see A7 in D9 because now this person arudha matters

> > (and

> > > that is what Sanjay Rath do in his paper about marriage).

> > >

> > > I consider Your questions/doubts but I'll try to to understand

> > > logic of Maharsis.

> > >

> > > Regards

> > >

> > > Rafal Gendarz

> > >

> > > vedic astrology, "Rohiniranjan"

> > > <rohini_ranjan@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > If that is the case Dear Mr. Gendarz ("7P only for sambandha

> and

> > > 12P

> > > > for vivaha") then why does jyotish ascribe marriage and

> marriage

> > > > partner to the 7th house in the chart and not to the 12th

> house?

> > > Or is

> > > > everyone else sadly mistaken on that matter, as well ;-)

> > > >

> > > > RR

> > > >

> > > > vedic astrology, "Rafal"

<starsuponme@>

> > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > hare rama krsna

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear RR, Namaskar

> > > > >

> > > > > comments below.

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards

> > > > >

> > > > > Rafal Gendarz

> > > > >

> > > > > www.rohinaa.com

> > > > >

> > > > > Dnia 3-02-2007 o godz. 16:17 Rohiniranjan napisa³(a):

> > > > >

> > > > > Elementy potencjalnie niebezpieczne zosta³y zablokowane.

> > > > > Mr. Gendarz,

> > > > >

> > > > > Further to my earlier request for documented time and place

> of

> > > the

> > > > > birth of the vrishchika rising example given by you ---

> > > > > Thanks for sharing this good example that seems to be a

> picture

> > > > > perfect illustration of your take on the upapada, namely

> that

> > > the

> > > > > 12th

> > > > > from lagna is the seed for upapada calculation.

> Interestingly,

> > > in

> > > > > this

> > > > > chart the fifth pada also falls in the same house, so

> someone

> > may

> > > > > argue that the anuchara (follower) is represented by the

5th

> > > house

> > > > > and

> > > > > therefore upapada should be taken from the fifth and not

> 12th

> > or

> > > 2nd.

> > > > >

> > > > > [rafal] Yes, therefore no method for veryfing knowledge

> > depends

> > > on

> > > > > one example. Like Ayurveda Jyotish should depend on a)

theory

> > and

> > > b)

> > > > > practice. This first prima facie depends a)pratyaksa b)

> anumana

> > > c)

> > > > > sabda. So try to use sabda by faith, pratyaksa by health

and

> > > anumana

> > > > > by mental strength.

> > > > >

> > > > > Infact on my site You can find sambandha article where

these

> > > things

> > > > > are mentioned. Practice will make You strong in accepting

> > things

> > > and

> > > > > if not what to do..

> > > > >

> > > > > From that angle this is not a good example even if it

> > eliminates

> > > the

> > > > > 2nd house as you have described. Now, how often this 'glove

> > > fits' in

> > > > > randomly selected charts is anyone's guess! Also, another

> thing

> > > to

> > > > > consider would be that upapada alone may not completely

> describe

> > > > > solely the spouse but more the nature of the marital life

> etc,

> > > > > whereas

> > > > > dara/kalatra pada would perhaps have a say in describing

the

> > > nature

> > > > > of

> > > > > the spouse etc. In this chart (I hope you did not have to

> > change

> > > the

> > > > > original birthtime drastically which would then confound

the

> > > issue

> > > > > even more!).

> > > > >

> > > > > [rafal] A7 is for sambandha while UL is for Vivaha, let us

> be

> > > clear

> > > > > on this. Darapada can give love marriage if connected to

> > > Upapada.

> > > > > Darapada shows all persons which will come to You attracted

> by

> > > Your

> > > > > personality. Therefore a7 shows those who which to take,

> while

> > > UL

> > > > > those who wish to give. Hopefully all agree that marriage

is

> > > giving

> > > > > (venus uccha in meena rasi - vyaya bhava in naisargika

> kundali).

> > > > >

> > > > > The pada of the 7th house falls in the 5th a karmic house

> which

> > > holds

> > > > > sun and mercury. Sun as we know also represents aging or

> older

> > > > > persons

> > > > > (many individuals with sun rising will look older than they

> > > actually

> > > > > are and often have loss of hair etc the other indicator of

> old

> > > age,

> > > > > while saturn rising generally gives a younger look, again

> not

> > in

> > > 100%

> > > > > cases obviously). Sun is with debilitated but cancelled

> mercury

> > > and

> > > > > both are in saturn's star which is placed in the 9th. The

> > > spiritual

> > > > > angle fits in this scheme. Also, the dispositor of the 7th

> pada

> > > is

> > > > > guru and it is placed in the 7th house itself and given its

> > > dharmic

> > > > > nature can be explained with the alternative manner that I

am

> > > > > describing. Cancer (her rising) is in trikona from the 7th

> pada

> > > and

> > > > > cancer is also ruled by moon which is the darakaraka (I use

> an

> > > > > ayanamsha that is closer to Raman -- you are probably

> getting

> > > moon as

> > > > > atmakaraka!). As far as the 'water' is concerned pisces is

> as

> > > watery

> > > > > if not more than cancer, if you catch my drift!

> > > > >

> > > > > You see this is the 'quandry' if you wish to call it, in

> > jyotish.

> > > > > Sometimes when one factor in a given horoscope begins to

> look

> > too

> > > > > sweet, one must become cautious as the factor may not work

> in

> > > the

> > > > > next

> > > > > chart. All jyotishis will admit to themselves that, and

more

> > > need to

> > > > > come out and admit publicly so that we don't create

> unreasonable

> > > > > expectations in the great unwashed (as the expression goes).

> > > > >

> > > > > I hope you take the time to read this message and not react

> to

> > it

> > > > > superficially. Once again, I am not pointing fingers at

> anyone

> > > > > directly or confrontationally, be they ancient teachers or

> > > modern or

> > > > > their views. I am personally not sold rigidly on this issue

> of

> > > > > upapada

> > > > > also, as I have shown here, there are many ways to peel a

> > banana

> > > and

> > > > > to enjoy it equally! Mystically, that is one of the

> strengths of

> > > > > astrology as a divinatory craft!

> > > > >

> > > > > RR

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

February 4, 2007

hare rama krsna

Dear RR, Namaskar

Superb so good luck!

Regards

Rafal Gendarz

vedic astrology, "Rohiniranjan"

<rohini_ranjan wrote:

>

> Mr. Gendarz,

>

> I do have a Guru! She talks to me straight and does not use

strange

> and shifting logic and does not doctor rules and parameters to

suit

> what gets her point across! She respects my intelligence and more

> importantly, my memory and recall ;-)

>

> I would take the doubts which by your reckoning (or was it some

Rsi

> that whispered in your ear that gem of knowledge?) rahu anytime

than

> the mish-mash and spiritually confused ketu particularly when it

> clouds the jupiter and places a veil that is thick as the smog

> floating over some industrial areas in this world ;-)

>

> RR

>

> PS: And I had such hopes! ;-)

>

> vedic astrology, "Rafal" <starsuponme@>

> wrote:

> >

> > hare rama krsna

> > Dear RR, Namaskar

> >

> > 1. Im trying go to core of the problem but doubts are blocking

> > (rahu).Therefore accepting Guru (remedy for Ra-Deva Keralam)

makes

> > Jyotish very simple but still noble.

> > 2. Why one example? I referred to my article about Sambandha.

> >

> > I can only direct, rest is up to You.

> >

> > Regards

> > Rafal Gendarz

> >

> > vedic astrology, "Rohiniranjan"

> > <rohini_ranjan@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Mr. Gendarz,

> > >

> > > Instead of dancing all over the stage, and acting unctorial

and

> > > patronizing, can we get to the core problem?

> > >

> > > Has it been settled in this thread if UL should be counted

from

> > the

> > > 12, 2 or 5th?

> > >

> > > NO! Because only one example was used and it has been clearly

> > shown

> > > by me to be confounded!

> > >

> > > My question remains intact as it was right at the root of the

> > thread.

> > >

> > > No mysterious code or cloistered secret vault where knowledge

is

> > > claimed to exist exclusively or similar maya will impress me.

> > >

> > > Jyotish, like nature must be simple and direct and should not

> need

> > > all this cloak and dagger and myrrh and smoke and

multifactorial

> > > explanations as seems to have become the vogue in some circles!

> > >

> > > RR

> > >

> > > vedic astrology, "Rafal" <starsuponme@>

> > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > hraum namah adityaya

> > > >

> > > > Dear RR, Namaskar

> > > >

> > > > Your question is stepstone in getting things clearer. Primo

try

> > to

> > > > understand that bhava's from Arudha signify something

different

> > > than

> > > > bhava's from Lagna. Then arudha's of bhava show something

> > different

> > > > than bhava's from Lagna.

> > > >

> > > > Second issue is that twelfth bhava (from Lagna) is very

> > important

> > > > for marriage and Parasara Rsi says this clearly (about

> > > avastha/bhava

> > > > of 12L).

> > > >

> > > > Seventh bhava shows our partners and attitude towards them

and

> > only

> > > > one of them becomes Upapada - this is person which after

> working

> > in

> > > > realm of relationship (6 from 7H) become object of our

effort

> > and

> > > we

> > > > sacrifice for partner (12H).

> > > >

> > > > So Rasi 7H shows circumstances(7L in 12H - poor background

of

> > > > lover) and attitude (7L in 6H with Saturn - we like person

who

> > are

> > > > servant-like - King Henry III example).

> > > >

> > > > Now seventh bhava in Navamsa is about spouse independently

and

> > here

> > > > we can see his choices, work and parents because Rasi is YOU

> and

> > > > Navamsa is Kalatra (Parasara)!

> > > >

> > > > So You can see A7 in D9 because now this person arudha

matters

> > > (and

> > > > that is what Sanjay Rath do in his paper about marriage).

> > > >

> > > > I consider Your questions/doubts but I'll try to to

understand

> > > > logic of Maharsis.

> > > >

> > > > Regards

> > > >

> > > > Rafal Gendarz

> > > >

> > > > vedic astrology, "Rohiniranjan"

> > > > <rohini_ranjan@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > If that is the case Dear Mr. Gendarz ("7P only for

sambandha

> > and

> > > > 12P

> > > > > for vivaha") then why does jyotish ascribe marriage and

> > marriage

> > > > > partner to the 7th house in the chart and not to the 12th

> > house?

> > > > Or is

> > > > > everyone else sadly mistaken on that matter, as well ;-)

> > > > >

> > > > > RR

> > > > >

> > > > > vedic astrology, "Rafal"

> <starsuponme@>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > hare rama krsna

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear RR, Namaskar

> > > > > >

> > > > > > comments below.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Regards

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Rafal Gendarz

> > > > > >

> > > > > > www.rohinaa.com

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dnia 3-02-2007 o godz. 16:17 Rohiniranjan napisa³(a):

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Elementy potencjalnie niebezpieczne zosta³y zablokowane.

> > > > > > Mr. Gendarz,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Further to my earlier request for documented time and

place

> > of

> > > > the

> > > > > > birth of the vrishchika rising example given by you ---

> > > > > > Thanks for sharing this good example that seems to be a

> > picture

> > > > > > perfect illustration of your take on the upapada, namely

> > that

> > > > the

> > > > > > 12th

> > > > > > from lagna is the seed for upapada calculation.

> > Interestingly,

> > > > in

> > > > > > this

> > > > > > chart the fifth pada also falls in the same house, so

> > someone

> > > may

> > > > > > argue that the anuchara (follower) is represented by the

> 5th

> > > > house

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > therefore upapada should be taken from the fifth and not

> > 12th

> > > or

> > > > 2nd.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > [rafal] Yes, therefore no method for veryfing knowledge

> > > depends

> > > > on

> > > > > > one example. Like Ayurveda Jyotish should depend on a)

> theory

> > > and

> > > > b)

> > > > > > practice. This first prima facie depends a)pratyaksa b)

> > anumana

> > > > c)

> > > > > > sabda. So try to use sabda by faith, pratyaksa by health

> and

> > > > anumana

> > > > > > by mental strength.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Infact on my site You can find sambandha article where

> these

> > > > things

> > > > > > are mentioned. Practice will make You strong in

accepting

> > > things

> > > > and

> > > > > > if not what to do..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > From that angle this is not a good example even if it

> > > eliminates

> > > > the

> > > > > > 2nd house as you have described. Now, how often

this 'glove

> > > > fits' in

> > > > > > randomly selected charts is anyone's guess! Also,

another

> > thing

> > > > to

> > > > > > consider would be that upapada alone may not completely

> > describe

> > > > > > solely the spouse but more the nature of the marital

life

> > etc,

> > > > > > whereas

> > > > > > dara/kalatra pada would perhaps have a say in describing

> the

> > > > nature

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > the spouse etc. In this chart (I hope you did not have

to

> > > change

> > > > the

> > > > > > original birthtime drastically which would then confound

> the

> > > > issue

> > > > > > even more!).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > [rafal] A7 is for sambandha while UL is for Vivaha, let

us

> > be

> > > > clear

> > > > > > on this. Darapada can give love marriage if connected to

> > > > Upapada.

> > > > > > Darapada shows all persons which will come to You

attracted

> > by

> > > > Your

> > > > > > personality. Therefore a7 shows those who which to take,

> > while

> > > > UL

> > > > > > those who wish to give. Hopefully all agree that

marriage

> is

> > > > giving

> > > > > > (venus uccha in meena rasi - vyaya bhava in naisargika

> > kundali).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The pada of the 7th house falls in the 5th a karmic

house

> > which

> > > > holds

> > > > > > sun and mercury. Sun as we know also represents aging or

> > older

> > > > > > persons

> > > > > > (many individuals with sun rising will look older than

they

> > > > actually

> > > > > > are and often have loss of hair etc the other indicator

of

> > old

> > > > age,

> > > > > > while saturn rising generally gives a younger look,

again

> > not

> > > in

> > > > 100%

> > > > > > cases obviously). Sun is with debilitated but cancelled

> > mercury

> > > > and

> > > > > > both are in saturn's star which is placed in the 9th.

The

> > > > spiritual

> > > > > > angle fits in this scheme. Also, the dispositor of the

7th

> > pada

> > > > is

> > > > > > guru and it is placed in the 7th house itself and given

its

> > > > dharmic

> > > > > > nature can be explained with the alternative manner that

I

> am

> > > > > > describing. Cancer (her rising) is in trikona from the

7th

> > pada

> > > > and

> > > > > > cancer is also ruled by moon which is the darakaraka (I

use

> > an

> > > > > > ayanamsha that is closer to Raman -- you are probably

> > getting

> > > > moon as

> > > > > > atmakaraka!). As far as the 'water' is concerned pisces

is

> > as

> > > > watery

> > > > > > if not more than cancer, if you catch my drift!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You see this is the 'quandry' if you wish to call it, in

> > > jyotish.

> > > > > > Sometimes when one factor in a given horoscope begins to

> > look

> > > too

> > > > > > sweet, one must become cautious as the factor may not

work

> > in

> > > > the

> > > > > > next

> > > > > > chart. All jyotishis will admit to themselves that, and

> more

> > > > need to

> > > > > > come out and admit publicly so that we don't create

> > unreasonable

> > > > > > expectations in the great unwashed (as the expression

goes).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I hope you take the time to read this message and not

react

> > to

> > > it

> > > > > > superficially. Once again, I am not pointing fingers at

> > anyone

> > > > > > directly or confrontationally, be they ancient teachers

or

> > > > modern or

> > > > > > their views. I am personally not sold rigidly on this

issue

> > of

> > > > > > upapada

> > > > > > also, as I have shown here, there are many ways to peel

a

> > > banana

> > > > and

> > > > > > to enjoy it equally! Mystically, that is one of the

> > strengths of

> > > > > > astrology as a divinatory craft!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > RR

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

February 4, 2007

Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote: Mr. Gendarz,

I do have a Guru! She talks to me straight and does not use strange

and shifting logic and does not doctor rules and parameters to suit

what gets her point across! She respects my intelligence and more

importantly, my memory and recall ;-)

I would take the doubts which by your reckoning (or was it some Rsi

that whispered in your ear that gem of knowledge?) rahu anytime than

the mish-mash and spiritually confused ketu particularly when it

clouds the jupiter and places a veil that is thick as the smog

floating over some industrial areas in this world ;-)

RR

PS: And I had such hopes! ;-)

vedic astrology, "Rafal" <starsuponme

wrote:

>

> hare rama krsna

> Dear RR, Namaskar

>

> 1. Im trying go to core of the problem but doubts are blocking

> (rahu).Therefore accepting Guru (remedy for Ra-Deva Keralam) makes

> Jyotish very simple but still noble.

> 2. Why one example? I referred to my article about Sambandha.

>

> I can only direct, rest is up to You.

>

> Regards

> Rafal Gendarz

>

> vedic astrology, "Rohiniranjan"

> <rohini_ranjan@> wrote:

> >

> > Mr. Gendarz,

> >

> > Instead of dancing all over the stage, and acting unctorial and

> > patronizing, can we get to the core problem?

> >

> > Has it been settled in this thread if UL should be counted from

> the

> > 12, 2 or 5th?

> >

> > NO! Because only one example was used and it has been clearly

> shown

> > by me to be confounded!

> >

> > My question remains intact as it was right at the root of the

> thread.

> >

> > No mysterious code or cloistered secret vault where knowledge is

> > claimed to exist exclusively or similar maya will impress me.

> >

> > Jyotish, like nature must be simple and direct and should not

need

> > all this cloak and dagger and myrrh and smoke and multifactorial

> > explanations as seems to have become the vogue in some circles!

> >

> > RR

> >

> > vedic astrology, "Rafal" <starsuponme@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > hraum namah adityaya

> > >

> > > Dear RR, Namaskar

> > >

> > > Your question is stepstone in getting things clearer. Primo try

> to

> > > understand that bhava's from Arudha signify something different

> > than

> > > bhava's from Lagna. Then arudha's of bhava show something

> different

> > > than bhava's from Lagna.

> > >

> > > Second issue is that twelfth bhava (from Lagna) is very

> important

> > > for marriage and Parasara Rsi says this clearly (about

> > avastha/bhava

> > > of 12L).

> > >

> > > Seventh bhava shows our partners and attitude towards them and

> only

> > > one of them becomes Upapada - this is person which after

working

> in

> > > realm of relationship (6 from 7H) become object of our effort

> and

> > we

> > > sacrifice for partner (12H).

> > >

> > > So Rasi 7H shows circumstances(7L in 12H - poor background of

> > > lover) and attitude (7L in 6H with Saturn - we like person who

> are

> > > servant-like - King Henry III example).

> > >

> > > Now seventh bhava in Navamsa is about spouse independently and

> here

> > > we can see his choices, work and parents because Rasi is YOU

and

> > > Navamsa is Kalatra (Parasara)!

> > >

> > > So You can see A7 in D9 because now this person arudha matters

> > (and

> > > that is what Sanjay Rath do in his paper about marriage).

> > >

> > > I consider Your questions/doubts but I'll try to to understand

> > > logic of Maharsis.

> > >

> > > Regards

> > >

> > > Rafal Gendarz

> > >

> > > vedic astrology, "Rohiniranjan"

> > > <rohini_ranjan@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > If that is the case Dear Mr. Gendarz ("7P only for sambandha

> and

> > > 12P

> > > > for vivaha") then why does jyotish ascribe marriage and

> marriage

> > > > partner to the 7th house in the chart and not to the 12th

> house?

> > > Or is

> > > > everyone else sadly mistaken on that matter, as well ;-)

> > > >

> > > > RR

> > > >

> > > > vedic astrology, "Rafal"

<starsuponme@>

> > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > hare rama krsna

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear RR, Namaskar

> > > > >

> > > > > comments below.

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards

> > > > >

> > > > > Rafal Gendarz

> > > > >

> > > > > www.rohinaa.com

> > > > >

> > > > > Dnia 3-02-2007 o godz. 16:17 Rohiniranjan napisa³(a):

> > > > >

> > > > > Elementy potencjalnie niebezpieczne zosta³y zablokowane.

> > > > > Mr. Gendarz,

> > > > >

> > > > > Further to my earlier request for documented time and place

> of

> > > the

> > > > > birth of the vrishchika rising example given by you ---

> > > > > Thanks for sharing this good example that seems to be a

> picture

> > > > > perfect illustration of your take on the upapada, namely

> that

> > > the

> > > > > 12th

> > > > > from lagna is the seed for upapada calculation.

> Interestingly,

> > > in

> > > > > this

> > > > > chart the fifth pada also falls in the same house, so

> someone

> > may

> > > > > argue that the anuchara (follower) is represented by the

5th

> > > house

> > > > > and

> > > > > therefore upapada should be taken from the fifth and not

> 12th

> > or

> > > 2nd.

> > > > >

> > > > > [rafal] Yes, therefore no method for veryfing knowledge

> > depends

> > > on

> > > > > one example. Like Ayurveda Jyotish should depend on a)

theory

> > and

> > > b)

> > > > > practice. This first prima facie depends a)pratyaksa b)

> anumana

> > > c)

> > > > > sabda. So try to use sabda by faith, pratyaksa by health

and

> > > anumana

> > > > > by mental strength.

> > > > >

> > > > > Infact on my site You can find sambandha article where

these

> > > things

> > > > > are mentioned. Practice will make You strong in accepting

> > things

> > > and

> > > > > if not what to do..

> > > > >

> > > > > From that angle this is not a good example even if it

> > eliminates

> > > the

> > > > > 2nd house as you have described. Now, how often this 'glove

> > > fits' in

> > > > > randomly selected charts is anyone's guess! Also, another

> thing

> > > to

> > > > > consider would be that upapada alone may not completely

> describe

> > > > > solely the spouse but more the nature of the marital life

> etc,

> > > > > whereas

> > > > > dara/kalatra pada would perhaps have a say in describing

the

> > > nature

> > > > > of

> > > > > the spouse etc. In this chart (I hope you did not have to

> > change

> > > the

> > > > > original birthtime drastically which would then confound

the

> > > issue

> > > > > even more!).

> > > > >

> > > > > [rafal] A7 is for sambandha while UL is for Vivaha, let us

> be

> > > clear

> > > > > on this. Darapada can give love marriage if connected to

> > > Upapada.

> > > > > Darapada shows all persons which will come to You attracted

> by

> > > Your

> > > > > personality. Therefore a7 shows those who which to take,

> while

> > > UL

> > > > > those who wish to give. Hopefully all agree that marriage

is

> > > giving

> > > > > (venus uccha in meena rasi - vyaya bhava in naisargika

> kundali).

> > > > >

> > > > > The pada of the 7th house falls in the 5th a karmic house

> which

> > > holds

> > > > > sun and mercury. Sun as we know also represents aging or

> older

> > > > > persons

> > > > > (many individuals with sun rising will look older than they

> > > actually

> > > > > are and often have loss of hair etc the other indicator of

> old

> > > age,

> > > > > while saturn rising generally gives a younger look, again

> not

> > in

> > > 100%

> > > > > cases obviously). Sun is with debilitated but cancelled

> mercury

> > > and

> > > > > both are in saturn's star which is placed in the 9th. The

> > > spiritual

> > > > > angle fits in this scheme. Also, the dispositor of the 7th

> pada

> > > is

> > > > > guru and it is placed in the 7th house itself and given its

> > > dharmic

> > > > > nature can be explained with the alternative manner that I

am

> > > > > describing. Cancer (her rising) is in trikona from the 7th

> pada

> > > and

> > > > > cancer is also ruled by moon which is the darakaraka (I use

> an

> > > > > ayanamsha that is closer to Raman -- you are probably

> getting

> > > moon as

> > > > > atmakaraka!). As far as the 'water' is concerned pisces is

> as

> > > watery

> > > > > if not more than cancer, if you catch my drift!

> > > > >

> > > > > You see this is the 'quandry' if you wish to call it, in

> > jyotish.

> > > > > Sometimes when one factor in a given horoscope begins to

> look

> > too

> > > > > sweet, one must become cautious as the factor may not work

> in

> > > the

> > > > > next

> > > > > chart. All jyotishis will admit to themselves that, and

more

> > > need to

> > > > > come out and admit publicly so that we don't create

> unreasonable

> > > > > expectations in the great unwashed (as the expression goes).

> > > > >

> > > > > I hope you take the time to read this message and not react

> to

> > it

> > > > > superficially. Once again, I am not pointing fingers at

> anyone

> > > > > directly or confrontationally, be they ancient teachers or

> > > modern or

> > > > > their views. I am personally not sold rigidly on this issue

> of

> > > > > upapada

> > > > > also, as I have shown here, there are many ways to peel a

> > banana

> > > and

> > > > > to enjoy it equally! Mystically, that is one of the

> strengths of

> > > > > astrology as a divinatory craft!

> > > > >

> > > > > RR

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

alternate email is raichurar :Location Bombay India

Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check.

Try the Mail Beta.

February 4, 2007

Thanks and likewise to you ;-)

vedic astrology, "Rafal" <starsuponme wrote:

>

> hare rama krsna

> Dear RR, Namaskar

> Superb so good luck!

> Regards

> Rafal Gendarz

>

> vedic astrology, "Rohiniranjan"

> <rohini_ranjan@> wrote:

> >

> > Mr. Gendarz,

> >

> > I do have a Guru! She talks to me straight and does not use

> strange

> > and shifting logic and does not doctor rules and parameters to

> suit

> > what gets her point across! She respects my intelligence and more

> > importantly, my memory and recall ;-)

> >

> > I would take the doubts which by your reckoning (or was it some

> Rsi

> > that whispered in your ear that gem of knowledge?) rahu anytime

> than

> > the mish-mash and spiritually confused ketu particularly when it

> > clouds the jupiter and places a veil that is thick as the smog

> > floating over some industrial areas in this world ;-)

> >

> > RR

> >

> > PS: And I had such hopes! ;-)

> >

> > vedic astrology, "Rafal" <starsuponme@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > hare rama krsna

> > > Dear RR, Namaskar

> > >

> > > 1. Im trying go to core of the problem but doubts are blocking

> > > (rahu).Therefore accepting Guru (remedy for Ra-Deva Keralam)

> makes

> > > Jyotish very simple but still noble.

> > > 2. Why one example? I referred to my article about Sambandha.

> > >

> > > I can only direct, rest is up to You.

> > >

> > > Regards

> > > Rafal Gendarz

> > >

> > > vedic astrology, "Rohiniranjan"

> > > <rohini_ranjan@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Mr. Gendarz,

> > > >

> > > > Instead of dancing all over the stage, and acting unctorial

> and

> > > > patronizing, can we get to the core problem?

> > > >

> > > > Has it been settled in this thread if UL should be counted

> from

> > > the

> > > > 12, 2 or 5th?

> > > >

> > > > NO! Because only one example was used and it has been clearly

> > > shown

> > > > by me to be confounded!

> > > >

> > > > My question remains intact as it was right at the root of the

> > > thread.

> > > >

> > > > No mysterious code or cloistered secret vault where knowledge

> is

> > > > claimed to exist exclusively or similar maya will impress me.

> > > >

> > > > Jyotish, like nature must be simple and direct and should not

> > need

> > > > all this cloak and dagger and myrrh and smoke and

> multifactorial

> > > > explanations as seems to have become the vogue in some circles!

> > > >

> > > > RR

> > > >

> > > > vedic astrology, "Rafal" <starsuponme@>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > hraum namah adityaya

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear RR, Namaskar

> > > > >

> > > > > Your question is stepstone in getting things clearer. Primo

> try

> > > to

> > > > > understand that bhava's from Arudha signify something

> different

> > > > than

> > > > > bhava's from Lagna. Then arudha's of bhava show something

> > > different

> > > > > than bhava's from Lagna.

> > > > >

> > > > > Second issue is that twelfth bhava (from Lagna) is very

> > > important

> > > > > for marriage and Parasara Rsi says this clearly (about

> > > > avastha/bhava

> > > > > of 12L).

> > > > >

> > > > > Seventh bhava shows our partners and attitude towards them

> and

> > > only

> > > > > one of them becomes Upapada - this is person which after

> > working

> > > in

> > > > > realm of relationship (6 from 7H) become object of our

> effort

> > > and

> > > > we

> > > > > sacrifice for partner (12H).

> > > > >

> > > > > So Rasi 7H shows circumstances(7L in 12H - poor background

> of

> > > > > lover) and attitude (7L in 6H with Saturn - we like person

> who

> > > are

> > > > > servant-like - King Henry III example).

> > > > >

> > > > > Now seventh bhava in Navamsa is about spouse independently

> and

> > > here

> > > > > we can see his choices, work and parents because Rasi is YOU

> > and

> > > > > Navamsa is Kalatra (Parasara)!

> > > > >

> > > > > So You can see A7 in D9 because now this person arudha

> matters

> > > > (and

> > > > > that is what Sanjay Rath do in his paper about marriage).

> > > > >

> > > > > I consider Your questions/doubts but I'll try to to

> understand

> > > > > logic of Maharsis.

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards

> > > > >

> > > > > Rafal Gendarz

> > > > >

> > > > > vedic astrology, "Rohiniranjan"

> > > > > <rohini_ranjan@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If that is the case Dear Mr. Gendarz ("7P only for

> sambandha

> > > and

> > > > > 12P

> > > > > > for vivaha") then why does jyotish ascribe marriage and

> > > marriage

> > > > > > partner to the 7th house in the chart and not to the 12th

> > > house?

> > > > > Or is

> > > > > > everyone else sadly mistaken on that matter, as well ;-)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > RR

> > > > > >

> > > > > > vedic astrology, "Rafal"

> > <starsuponme@>

> > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > hare rama krsna

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear RR, Namaskar

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > comments below.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Regards

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Rafal Gendarz

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > www.rohinaa.com

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dnia 3-02-2007 o godz. 16:17 Rohiniranjan napisa³(a):

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Elementy potencjalnie niebezpieczne zosta³y zablokowane.

> > > > > > > Mr. Gendarz,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Further to my earlier request for documented time and

> place

> > > of

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > birth of the vrishchika rising example given by you ---

> > > > > > > Thanks for sharing this good example that seems to be a

> > > picture

> > > > > > > perfect illustration of your take on the upapada, namely

> > > that

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > 12th

> > > > > > > from lagna is the seed for upapada calculation.

> > > Interestingly,

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > chart the fifth pada also falls in the same house, so

> > > someone

> > > > may

> > > > > > > argue that the anuchara (follower) is represented by the

> > 5th

> > > > > house

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > therefore upapada should be taken from the fifth and not

> > > 12th

> > > > or

> > > > > 2nd.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > [rafal] Yes, therefore no method for veryfing knowledge

> > > > depends

> > > > > on

> > > > > > > one example. Like Ayurveda Jyotish should depend on a)

> > theory

> > > > and

> > > > > b)

> > > > > > > practice. This first prima facie depends a)pratyaksa b)

> > > anumana

> > > > > c)

> > > > > > > sabda. So try to use sabda by faith, pratyaksa by health

> > and

> > > > > anumana

> > > > > > > by mental strength.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Infact on my site You can find sambandha article where

> > these

> > > > > things

> > > > > > > are mentioned. Practice will make You strong in

> accepting

> > > > things

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > if not what to do..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > From that angle this is not a good example even if it

> > > > eliminates

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > 2nd house as you have described. Now, how often

> this 'glove

> > > > > fits' in

> > > > > > > randomly selected charts is anyone's guess! Also,

> another

> > > thing

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > consider would be that upapada alone may not completely

> > > describe

> > > > > > > solely the spouse but more the nature of the marital

> life

> > > etc,

> > > > > > > whereas

> > > > > > > dara/kalatra pada would perhaps have a say in describing

> > the

> > > > > nature

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > the spouse etc. In this chart (I hope you did not have

> to

> > > > change

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > original birthtime drastically which would then confound

> > the

> > > > > issue

> > > > > > > even more!).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > [rafal] A7 is for sambandha while UL is for Vivaha, let

> us

> > > be

> > > > > clear

> > > > > > > on this. Darapada can give love marriage if connected to

> > > > > Upapada.

> > > > > > > Darapada shows all persons which will come to You

> attracted

> > > by

> > > > > Your

> > > > > > > personality. Therefore a7 shows those who which to take,

> > > while

> > > > > UL

> > > > > > > those who wish to give. Hopefully all agree that

> marriage

> > is

> > > > > giving

> > > > > > > (venus uccha in meena rasi - vyaya bhava in naisargika

> > > kundali).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The pada of the 7th house falls in the 5th a karmic

> house

> > > which

> > > > > holds

> > > > > > > sun and mercury. Sun as we know also represents aging or

> > > older

> > > > > > > persons

> > > > > > > (many individuals with sun rising will look older than

> they

> > > > > actually

> > > > > > > are and often have loss of hair etc the other indicator

> of

> > > old

> > > > > age,

> > > > > > > while saturn rising generally gives a younger look,

> again

> > > not

> > > > in

> > > > > 100%

> > > > > > > cases obviously). Sun is with debilitated but cancelled

> > > mercury

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > both are in saturn's star which is placed in the 9th.

> The

> > > > > spiritual

> > > > > > > angle fits in this scheme. Also, the dispositor of the

> 7th

> > > pada

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > guru and it is placed in the 7th house itself and given

> its

> > > > > dharmic

> > > > > > > nature can be explained with the alternative manner that

> I

> > am

> > > > > > > describing. Cancer (her rising) is in trikona from the

> 7th

> > > pada

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > cancer is also ruled by moon which is the darakaraka (I

> use

> > > an

> > > > > > > ayanamsha that is closer to Raman -- you are probably

> > > getting

> > > > > moon as

> > > > > > > atmakaraka!). As far as the 'water' is concerned pisces

> is

> > > as

> > > > > watery

> > > > > > > if not more than cancer, if you catch my drift!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You see this is the 'quandry' if you wish to call it, in

> > > > jyotish.

> > > > > > > Sometimes when one factor in a given horoscope begins to

> > > look

> > > > too

> > > > > > > sweet, one must become cautious as the factor may not

> work

> > > in

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > next

> > > > > > > chart. All jyotishis will admit to themselves that, and

> > more

> > > > > need to

> > > > > > > come out and admit publicly so that we don't create

> > > unreasonable

> > > > > > > expectations in the great unwashed (as the expression

> goes).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I hope you take the time to read this message and not

> react

> > > to

> > > > it

> > > > > > > superficially. Once again, I am not pointing fingers at

> > > anyone

> > > > > > > directly or confrontationally, be they ancient teachers

> or

> > > > > modern or

> > > > > > > their views. I am personally not sold rigidly on this

> issue

> > > of

> > > > > > > upapada

> > > > > > > also, as I have shown here, there are many ways to peel

> a

> > > > banana

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > to enjoy it equally! Mystically, that is one of the

> > > strengths of

> > > > > > > astrology as a divinatory craft!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > RR

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

February 4, 2007

Sridhar, did you hit the SEND button by mistake? I didn't see your

response!

RR

vedic astrology, sridhar k <kopparsa wrote:

>

> Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan wrote: Mr. Gendarz,

>

> I do have a Guru! She talks to me straight and does not use strange

> and shifting logic and does not doctor rules and parameters to suit

> what gets her point across! She respects my intelligence and more

> importantly, my memory and recall ;-)

>

> I would take the doubts which by your reckoning (or was it some Rsi

> that whispered in your ear that gem of knowledge?) rahu anytime than

> the mish-mash and spiritually confused ketu particularly when it

> clouds the jupiter and places a veil that is thick as the smog

> floating over some industrial areas in this world ;-)

>

> RR

>

> PS: And I had such hopes! ;-)

>

> vedic astrology, "Rafal" <starsuponme@>

> wrote:

> >

> > hare rama krsna

> > Dear RR, Namaskar

> >

> > 1. Im trying go to core of the problem but doubts are blocking

> > (rahu).Therefore accepting Guru (remedy for Ra-Deva Keralam) makes

> > Jyotish very simple but still noble.

> > 2. Why one example? I referred to my article about Sambandha.

> >

> > I can only direct, rest is up to You.

> >

> > Regards

> > Rafal Gendarz

> >

> > vedic astrology, "Rohiniranjan"

> > <rohini_ranjan@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Mr. Gendarz,

> > >

> > > Instead of dancing all over the stage, and acting unctorial and

> > > patronizing, can we get to the core problem?

> > >

> > > Has it been settled in this thread if UL should be counted from

> > the

> > > 12, 2 or 5th?

> > >

> > > NO! Because only one example was used and it has been clearly

> > shown

> > > by me to be confounded!

> > >

> > > My question remains intact as it was right at the root of the

> > thread.

> > >

> > > No mysterious code or cloistered secret vault where knowledge is

> > > claimed to exist exclusively or similar maya will impress me.

> > >

> > > Jyotish, like nature must be simple and direct and should not

> need

> > > all this cloak and dagger and myrrh and smoke and multifactorial

> > > explanations as seems to have become the vogue in some circles!

> > >

> > > RR

> > >

> > > vedic astrology, "Rafal" <starsuponme@>

> > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > hraum namah adityaya

> > > >

> > > > Dear RR, Namaskar

> > > >

> > > > Your question is stepstone in getting things clearer. Primo try

> > to

> > > > understand that bhava's from Arudha signify something different

> > > than

> > > > bhava's from Lagna. Then arudha's of bhava show something

> > different

> > > > than bhava's from Lagna.

> > > >

> > > > Second issue is that twelfth bhava (from Lagna) is very

> > important

> > > > for marriage and Parasara Rsi says this clearly (about

> > > avastha/bhava

> > > > of 12L).

> > > >

> > > > Seventh bhava shows our partners and attitude towards them and

> > only

> > > > one of them becomes Upapada - this is person which after

> working

> > in

> > > > realm of relationship (6 from 7H) become object of our effort

> > and

> > > we

> > > > sacrifice for partner (12H).

> > > >

> > > > So Rasi 7H shows circumstances(7L in 12H - poor background of

> > > > lover) and attitude (7L in 6H with Saturn - we like person who

> > are

> > > > servant-like - King Henry III example).

> > > >

> > > > Now seventh bhava in Navamsa is about spouse independently and

> > here

> > > > we can see his choices, work and parents because Rasi is YOU

> and

> > > > Navamsa is Kalatra (Parasara)!

> > > >

> > > > So You can see A7 in D9 because now this person arudha matters

> > > (and

> > > > that is what Sanjay Rath do in his paper about marriage).

> > > >

> > > > I consider Your questions/doubts but I'll try to to understand

> > > > logic of Maharsis.

> > > >

> > > > Regards

> > > >

> > > > Rafal Gendarz

> > > >

> > > > vedic astrology, "Rohiniranjan"

> > > > <rohini_ranjan@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > If that is the case Dear Mr. Gendarz ("7P only for sambandha

> > and

> > > > 12P

> > > > > for vivaha") then why does jyotish ascribe marriage and

> > marriage

> > > > > partner to the 7th house in the chart and not to the 12th

> > house?

> > > > Or is

> > > > > everyone else sadly mistaken on that matter, as well ;-)

> > > > >

> > > > > RR

> > > > >

> > > > > vedic astrology, "Rafal"

> <starsuponme@>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > hare rama krsna

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear RR, Namaskar

> > > > > >

> > > > > > comments below.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Regards

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Rafal Gendarz

> > > > > >

> > > > > > www.rohinaa.com

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dnia 3-02-2007 o godz. 16:17 Rohiniranjan napisa³(a):

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Elementy potencjalnie niebezpieczne zosta³y zablokowane.

> > > > > > Mr. Gendarz,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Further to my earlier request for documented time and place

> > of

> > > > the

> > > > > > birth of the vrishchika rising example given by you ---

> > > > > > Thanks for sharing this good example that seems to be a

> > picture

> > > > > > perfect illustration of your take on the upapada, namely

> > that

> > > > the

> > > > > > 12th

> > > > > > from lagna is the seed for upapada calculation.

> > Interestingly,

> > > > in

> > > > > > this

> > > > > > chart the fifth pada also falls in the same house, so

> > someone

> > > may

> > > > > > argue that the anuchara (follower) is represented by the

> 5th

> > > > house

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > therefore upapada should be taken from the fifth and not

> > 12th

> > > or

> > > > 2nd.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > [rafal] Yes, therefore no method for veryfing knowledge

> > > depends

> > > > on

> > > > > > one example. Like Ayurveda Jyotish should depend on a)

> theory

> > > and

> > > > b)

> > > > > > practice. This first prima facie depends a)pratyaksa b)

> > anumana

> > > > c)

> > > > > > sabda. So try to use sabda by faith, pratyaksa by health

> and

> > > > anumana

> > > > > > by mental strength.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Infact on my site You can find sambandha article where

> these

> > > > things

> > > > > > are mentioned. Practice will make You strong in accepting

> > > things

> > > > and

> > > > > > if not what to do..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > From that angle this is not a good example even if it

> > > eliminates

> > > > the

> > > > > > 2nd house as you have described. Now, how often this 'glove

> > > > fits' in

> > > > > > randomly selected charts is anyone's guess! Also, another

> > thing

> > > > to

> > > > > > consider would be that upapada alone may not completely

> > describe

> > > > > > solely the spouse but more the nature of the marital life

> > etc,

> > > > > > whereas

> > > > > > dara/kalatra pada would perhaps have a say in describing

> the

> > > > nature

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > the spouse etc. In this chart (I hope you did not have to

> > > change

> > > > the

> > > > > > original birthtime drastically which would then confound

> the

> > > > issue

> > > > > > even more!).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > [rafal] A7 is for sambandha while UL is for Vivaha, let us

> > be

> > > > clear

> > > > > > on this. Darapada can give love marriage if connected to

> > > > Upapada.

> > > > > > Darapada shows all persons which will come to You attracted

> > by

> > > > Your

> > > > > > personality. Therefore a7 shows those who which to take,

> > while

> > > > UL

> > > > > > those who wish to give. Hopefully all agree that marriage

> is

> > > > giving

> > > > > > (venus uccha in meena rasi - vyaya bhava in naisargika

> > kundali).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The pada of the 7th house falls in the 5th a karmic house

> > which

> > > > holds

> > > > > > sun and mercury. Sun as we know also represents aging or

> > older

> > > > > > persons

> > > > > > (many individuals with sun rising will look older than they

> > > > actually

> > > > > > are and often have loss of hair etc the other indicator of

> > old

> > > > age,

> > > > > > while saturn rising generally gives a younger look, again

> > not

> > > in

> > > > 100%

> > > > > > cases obviously). Sun is with debilitated but cancelled

> > mercury

> > > > and

> > > > > > both are in saturn's star which is placed in the 9th. The

> > > > spiritual

> > > > > > angle fits in this scheme. Also, the dispositor of the 7th

> > pada

> > > > is

> > > > > > guru and it is placed in the 7th house itself and given its

> > > > dharmic

> > > > > > nature can be explained with the alternative manner that I

> am

> > > > > > describing. Cancer (her rising) is in trikona from the 7th

> > pada

> > > > and

> > > > > > cancer is also ruled by moon which is the darakaraka (I use

> > an

> > > > > > ayanamsha that is closer to Raman -- you are probably

> > getting

> > > > moon as

> > > > > > atmakaraka!). As far as the 'water' is concerned pisces is

> > as

> > > > watery

> > > > > > if not more than cancer, if you catch my drift!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You see this is the 'quandry' if you wish to call it, in

> > > jyotish.

> > > > > > Sometimes when one factor in a given horoscope begins to

> > look

> > > too

> > > > > > sweet, one must become cautious as the factor may not work

> > in

> > > > the

> > > > > > next

> > > > > > chart. All jyotishis will admit to themselves that, and

> more

> > > > need to

> > > > > > come out and admit publicly so that we don't create

> > unreasonable

> > > > > > expectations in the great unwashed (as the expression goes).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I hope you take the time to read this message and not react

> > to

> > > it

> > > > > > superficially. Once again, I am not pointing fingers at

> > anyone

> > > > > > directly or confrontationally, be they ancient teachers or

> > > > modern or

> > > > > > their views. I am personally not sold rigidly on this issue

> > of

> > > > > > upapada

> > > > > > also, as I have shown here, there are many ways to peel a

> > > banana

> > > > and

> > > > > > to enjoy it equally! Mystically, that is one of the

> > strengths of

> > > > > > astrology as a divinatory craft!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > RR

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

> alternate email is raichurar:Location Bombay India

>

> Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check.

> Try the Mail Beta.

>

February 5, 2007

Yes. It was a mistake. Sorry for the bother

Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote: Sridhar, did you hit the SEND button by mistake? I didn't see your

response!

RR

vedic astrology, sridhar k <kopparsa wrote:

>

> Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan wrote: Mr. Gendarz,

>

> I do have a Guru! She talks to me straight and does not use strange

> and shifting logic and does not doctor rules and parameters to suit

> what gets her point across! She respects my intelligence and more

> importantly, my memory and recall ;-)

>

> I would take the doubts which by your reckoning (or was it some Rsi

> that whispered in your ear that gem of knowledge?) rahu anytime than

> the mish-mash and spiritually confused ketu particularly when it

> clouds the jupiter and places a veil that is thick as the smog

> floating over some industrial areas in this world ;-)

>

> RR

>

> PS: And I had such hopes! ;-)

>

> vedic astrology, "Rafal" <starsuponme@>

> wrote:

> >

> > hare rama krsna

> > Dear RR, Namaskar

> >

> > 1. Im trying go to core of the problem but doubts are blocking

> > (rahu).Therefore accepting Guru (remedy for Ra-Deva Keralam) makes

> > Jyotish very simple but still noble.

> > 2. Why one example? I referred to my article about Sambandha.

> >

> > I can only direct, rest is up to You.

> >

> > Regards

> > Rafal Gendarz

> >

> > vedic astrology, "Rohiniranjan"

> > <rohini_ranjan@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Mr. Gendarz,

> > >

> > > Instead of dancing all over the stage, and acting unctorial and

> > > patronizing, can we get to the core problem?

> > >

> > > Has it been settled in this thread if UL should be counted from

> > the

> > > 12, 2 or 5th?

> > >

> > > NO! Because only one example was used and it has been clearly

> > shown

> > > by me to be confounded!

> > >

> > > My question remains intact as it was right at the root of the

> > thread.

> > >

> > > No mysterious code or cloistered secret vault where knowledge is

> > > claimed to exist exclusively or similar maya will impress me.

> > >

> > > Jyotish, like nature must be simple and direct and should not

> need

> > > all this cloak and dagger and myrrh and smoke and multifactorial

> > > explanations as seems to have become the vogue in some circles!

> > >

> > > RR

> > >

> > > vedic astrology, "Rafal" <starsuponme@>

> > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > hraum namah adityaya

> > > >

> > > > Dear RR, Namaskar

> > > >

> > > > Your question is stepstone in getting things clearer. Primo try

> > to

> > > > understand that bhava's from Arudha signify something different

> > > than

> > > > bhava's from Lagna. Then arudha's of bhava show something

> > different

> > > > than bhava's from Lagna.

> > > >

> > > > Second issue is that twelfth bhava (from Lagna) is very

> > important

> > > > for marriage and Parasara Rsi says this clearly (about

> > > avastha/bhava

> > > > of 12L).

> > > >

> > > > Seventh bhava shows our partners and attitude towards them and

> > only

> > > > one of them becomes Upapada - this is person which after

> working

> > in

> > > > realm of relationship (6 from 7H) become object of our effort

> > and

> > > we

> > > > sacrifice for partner (12H).

> > > >

> > > > So Rasi 7H shows circumstances(7L in 12H - poor background of

> > > > lover) and attitude (7L in 6H with Saturn - we like person who

> > are

> > > > servant-like - King Henry III example).

> > > >

> > > > Now seventh bhava in Navamsa is about spouse independently and

> > here

> > > > we can see his choices, work and parents because Rasi is YOU

> and

> > > > Navamsa is Kalatra (Parasara)!

> > > >

> > > > So You can see A7 in D9 because now this person arudha matters

> > > (and

> > > > that is what Sanjay Rath do in his paper about marriage).

> > > >

> > > > I consider Your questions/doubts but I'll try to to understand

> > > > logic of Maharsis.

> > > >

> > > > Regards

> > > >

> > > > Rafal Gendarz

> > > >

> > > > vedic astrology, "Rohiniranjan"

> > > > <rohini_ranjan@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > If that is the case Dear Mr. Gendarz ("7P only for sambandha

> > and

> > > > 12P

> > > > > for vivaha") then why does jyotish ascribe marriage and

> > marriage

> > > > > partner to the 7th house in the chart and not to the 12th

> > house?

> > > > Or is

> > > > > everyone else sadly mistaken on that matter, as well ;-)

> > > > >

> > > > > RR

> > > > >

> > > > > vedic astrology, "Rafal"

> <starsuponme@>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > hare rama krsna

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear RR, Namaskar

> > > > > >

> > > > > > comments below.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Regards

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Rafal Gendarz

> > > > > >

> > > > > > www.rohinaa.com

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dnia 3-02-2007 o godz. 16:17 Rohiniranjan napisa³(a):

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Elementy potencjalnie niebezpieczne zosta³y zablokowane.

> > > > > > Mr. Gendarz,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Further to my earlier request for documented time and place

> > of

> > > > the

> > > > > > birth of the vrishchika rising example given by you ---

> > > > > > Thanks for sharing this good example that seems to be a

> > picture

> > > > > > perfect illustration of your take on the upapada, namely

> > that

> > > > the

> > > > > > 12th

> > > > > > from lagna is the seed for upapada calculation.

> > Interestingly,

> > > > in

> > > > > > this

> > > > > > chart the fifth pada also falls in the same house, so

> > someone

> > > may

> > > > > > argue that the anuchara (follower) is represented by the

> 5th

> > > > house

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > therefore upapada should be taken from the fifth and not

> > 12th

> > > or

> > > > 2nd.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > [rafal] Yes, therefore no method for veryfing knowledge

> > > depends

> > > > on

> > > > > > one example. Like Ayurveda Jyotish should depend on a)

> theory

> > > and

> > > > b)

> > > > > > practice. This first prima facie depends a)pratyaksa b)

> > anumana

> > > > c)

> > > > > > sabda. So try to use sabda by faith, pratyaksa by health

> and

> > > > anumana

> > > > > > by mental strength.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Infact on my site You can find sambandha article where

> these

> > > > things

> > > > > > are mentioned. Practice will make You strong in accepting

> > > things

> > > > and

> > > > > > if not what to do..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > From that angle this is not a good example even if it

> > > eliminates

> > > > the

> > > > > > 2nd house as you have described. Now, how often this 'glove

> > > > fits' in

> > > > > > randomly selected charts is anyone's guess! Also, another

> > thing

> > > > to

> > > > > > consider would be that upapada alone may not completely

> > describe

> > > > > > solely the spouse but more the nature of the marital life

> > etc,

> > > > > > whereas

> > > > > > dara/kalatra pada would perhaps have a say in describing

> the

> > > > nature

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > the spouse etc. In this chart (I hope you did not have to

> > > change

> > > > the

> > > > > > original birthtime drastically which would then confound

> the

> > > > issue

> > > > > > even more!).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > [rafal] A7 is for sambandha while UL is for Vivaha, let us

> > be

> > > > clear

> > > > > > on this. Darapada can give love marriage if connected to

> > > > Upapada.

> > > > > > Darapada shows all persons which will come to You attracted

> > by

> > > > Your

> > > > > > personality. Therefore a7 shows those who which to take,

> > while

> > > > UL

> > > > > > those who wish to give. Hopefully all agree that marriage

> is

> > > > giving

> > > > > > (venus uccha in meena rasi - vyaya bhava in naisargika

> > kundali).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The pada of the 7th house falls in the 5th a karmic house

> > which

> > > > holds

> > > > > > sun and mercury. Sun as we know also represents aging or

> > older

> > > > > > persons

> > > > > > (many individuals with sun rising will look older than they

> > > > actually

> > > > > > are and often have loss of hair etc the other indicator of

> > old

> > > > age,

> > > > > > while saturn rising generally gives a younger look, again

> > not

> > > in

> > > > 100%

> > > > > > cases obviously). Sun is with debilitated but cancelled

> > mercury

> > > > and

> > > > > > both are in saturn's star which is placed in the 9th. The

> > > > spiritual

> > > > > > angle fits in this scheme. Also, the dispositor of the 7th

> > pada

> > > > is

> > > > > > guru and it is placed in the 7th house itself and given its

> > > > dharmic

> > > > > > nature can be explained with the alternative manner that I

> am

> > > > > > describing. Cancer (her rising) is in trikona from the 7th

> > pada

> > > > and

> > > > > > cancer is also ruled by moon which is the darakaraka (I use

> > an

> > > > > > ayanamsha that is closer to Raman -- you are probably

> > getting

> > > > moon as

> > > > > > atmakaraka!). As far as the 'water' is concerned pisces is

> > as

> > > > watery

> > > > > > if not more than cancer, if you catch my drift!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You see this is the 'quandry' if you wish to call it, in

> > > jyotish.

> > > > > > Sometimes when one factor in a given horoscope begins to

> > look

> > > too

> > > > > > sweet, one must become cautious as the factor may not work

> > in

> > > > the

> > > > > > next

> > > > > > chart. All jyotishis will admit to themselves that, and

> more

> > > > need to

> > > > > > come out and admit publicly so that we don't create

> > unreasonable

> > > > > > expectations in the great unwashed (as the expression goes).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I hope you take the time to read this message and not react

> > to

> > > it

> > > > > > superficially. Once again, I am not pointing fingers at

> > anyone

> > > > > > directly or confrontationally, be they ancient teachers or

> > > > modern or

> > > > > > their views. I am personally not sold rigidly on this issue

> > of

> > > > > > upapada

> > > > > > also, as I have shown here, there are many ways to peel a

> > > banana

> > > > and

> > > > > > to enjoy it equally! Mystically, that is one of the

> > strengths of

> > > > > > astrology as a divinatory craft!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > RR

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

> alternate email is raichurar:Location Bombay India

>

> Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check.

> Try the Mail Beta.

>

February 5, 2007

om krishna guru,

dear rohiniji,

12th house significe so many things ,moksha ,expenditure (also to whom

do u spend so generaly to ur family) ,also ur sleep ,comfort of ur sleep

,hospitals ,jails so many things .As a man is involved in may b one lac

things the rishis devlpd significations and they concluded in 12 rasis

and u hav to think accordingly .If 12th house is moksh ,think how it can

b after 12th coming lagna,pls apply ur logic .See actualy zodiac is

almost round in shape and not south indian or north indian chart shape

,so its showing the birth-rebirth also.

>From 12th house 7th house is 8th house(so distruction of what

brahmacharya?) ,and frm 7th house 12th house 6th house so its upachaya

frm 7th ,which can giv growth ,u rememember 4/8/12 th r moksha triangle

..Otherwise y 8th house frm lagana trated as both logitivity and income

of partner .So use all according to context.

2nd house is kutumba or money which is supporting u ,its not anuchara

which is following u ,and 5th house can b used for followers for guru

and children ,or students if u r teacher but frm 7th house its gains

which is children ,that is y rishis use 5th house for romance also ,as

it can giv gain for marrige .(again 11th is upachaya-which can giv

growth).

It is big subjuct ,i think 12 th is ur anuchara ,in sanskrit patni is

sahadarmini (who help u to follow ur dharma as it is 3rd frm 9th -saha

dharmam chareth) sorry i am not a scholar in sanskrit or jyothish .

As u mentiond so many books ,even some i come acrross ,many translations

r confucing the students as without any illustrations ,and most of them

r traslators without experience .

I know one gentle man who translated 25 books ,he was chased by a

filthy rich delhi boy(ready to pay any amount he asks) to know abt his

future and finaly he admit that he dont know any predictions and he

requested him to pls leave him alone .other wise he translated all

jaimini,yogini ,parashari books ,i can tell u if cont me prvtly abt this

person.

That is status of many abhinava varahmihirs .

hope u dont feel bad .

a simple student .

sunil nair

om shreem mahalaxmai namah

vedic astrology, "Rafal" <starsuponme wrote:

>

> hare rama krsna

> Dear RR, Namaskar

> Superb so good luck!

> Regards

> Rafal Gendarz

>

> vedic astrology, "Rohiniranjan"

> rohini_ranjan@ wrote:

> >

> > Mr. Gendarz,

> >

> > I do have a Guru! She talks to me straight and does not use

> strange

> > and shifting logic and does not doctor rules and parameters to

> suit

> > what gets her point across! She respects my intelligence and more

> > importantly, my memory and recall ;-)

> >

> > I would take the doubts which by your reckoning (or was it some

> Rsi

> > that whispered in your ear that gem of knowledge?) rahu anytime

> than

> > the mish-mash and spiritually confused ketu particularly when it

> > clouds the jupiter and places a veil that is thick as the smog

> > floating over some industrial areas in this world ;-)

> >

> > RR

> >

> > PS: And I had such hopes! ;-)

> >

> > vedic astrology, "Rafal" <starsuponme@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > hare rama krsna

> > > Dear RR, Namaskar

> > >

> > > 1. Im trying go to core of the problem but doubts are blocking

> > > (rahu).Therefore accepting Guru (remedy for Ra-Deva Keralam)

> makes

> > > Jyotish very simple but still noble.

> > > 2. Why one example? I referred to my article about Sambandha.

> > >

> > > I can only direct, rest is up to You.

> > >

> > > Regards

> > > Rafal Gendarz

> > >

> > > vedic astrology, "Rohiniranjan"

> > > <rohini_ranjan@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Mr. Gendarz,

> > > >

> > > > Instead of dancing all over the stage, and acting unctorial

> and

> > > > patronizing, can we get to the core problem?

> > > >

> > > > Has it been settled in this thread if UL should be counted

> from

> > > the

> > > > 12, 2 or 5th?

> > > >

> > > > NO! Because only one example was used and it has been clearly

> > > shown

> > > > by me to be confounded!

> > > >

> > > > My question remains intact as it was right at the root of the

> > > thread.

> > > >

> > > > No mysterious code or cloistered secret vault where knowledge

> is

> > > > claimed to exist exclusively or similar maya will impress me.

> > > >

> > > > Jyotish, like nature must be simple and direct and should not

> > need

> > > > all this cloak and dagger and myrrh and smoke and

> multifactorial

> > > > explanations as seems to have become the vogue in some circles!

> > > >

> > > > RR

> > > >

> > > > vedic astrology, "Rafal" <starsuponme@>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > hraum namah adityaya

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear RR, Namaskar

> > > > >

> > > > > Your question is stepstone in getting things clearer. Primo

> try

> > > to

> > > > > understand that bhava's from Arudha signify something

> different

> > > > than

> > > > > bhava's from Lagna. Then arudha's of bhava show something

> > > different

> > > > > than bhava's from Lagna.

> > > > >

> > > > > Second issue is that twelfth bhava (from Lagna) is very

> > > important

> > > > > for marriage and Parasara Rsi says this clearly (about

> > > > avastha/bhava

> > > > > of 12L).

> > > > >

> > > > > Seventh bhava shows our partners and attitude towards them

> and

> > > only

> > > > > one of them becomes Upapada - this is person which after

> > working

> > > in

> > > > > realm of relationship (6 from 7H) become object of our

> effort

> > > and

> > > > we

> > > > > sacrifice for partner (12H).

> > > > >

> > > > > So Rasi 7H shows circumstances(7L in 12H - poor background

> of

> > > > > lover) and attitude (7L in 6H with Saturn - we like person

> who

> > > are

> > > > > servant-like - King Henry III example).

> > > > >

> > > > > Now seventh bhava in Navamsa is about spouse independently

> and

> > > here

> > > > > we can see his choices, work and parents because Rasi is YOU

> > and

> > > > > Navamsa is Kalatra (Parasara)!

> > > > >

> > > > > So You can see A7 in D9 because now this person arudha

> matters

> > > > (and

> > > > > that is what Sanjay Rath do in his paper about marriage).

> > > > >

> > > > > I consider Your questions/doubts but I'll try to to

> understand

> > > > > logic of Maharsis.

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards

> > > > >

> > > > > Rafal Gendarz

> > > > >

> > > > > vedic astrology, "Rohiniranjan"

> > > > > <rohini_ranjan@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If that is the case Dear Mr. Gendarz ("7P only for

> sambandha

> > > and

> > > > > 12P

> > > > > > for vivaha") then why does jyotish ascribe marriage and

> > > marriage

> > > > > > partner to the 7th house in the chart and not to the 12th

> > > house?

> > > > > Or is

> > > > > > everyone else sadly mistaken on that matter, as well ;-)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > RR

> > > > > >

> > > > > > vedic astrology, "Rafal"

> > <starsuponme@>

> > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > hare rama krsna

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear RR, Namaskar

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > comments below.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Regards

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Rafal Gendarz

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > www.rohinaa.com

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dnia 3-02-2007 o godz. 16:17 Rohiniranjan napisa³(a):

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Elementy potencjalnie niebezpieczne zosta³y

zablokowane.

> > > > > > > Mr. Gendarz,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Further to my earlier request for documented time and

> place

> > > of

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > birth of the vrishchika rising example given by you ---

> > > > > > > Thanks for sharing this good example that seems to be a

> > > picture

> > > > > > > perfect illustration of your take on the upapada, namely

> > > that

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > 12th

> > > > > > > from lagna is the seed for upapada calculation.

> > > Interestingly,

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > chart the fifth pada also falls in the same house, so

> > > someone

> > > > may

> > > > > > > argue that the anuchara (follower) is represented by the

> > 5th

> > > > > house

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > therefore upapada should be taken from the fifth and not

> > > 12th

> > > > or

> > > > > 2nd.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > [rafal] Yes, therefore no method for veryfing knowledge

> > > > depends

> > > > > on

> > > > > > > one example. Like Ayurveda Jyotish should depend on a)

> > theory

> > > > and

> > > > > b)

> > > > > > > practice. This first prima facie depends a)pratyaksa b)

> > > anumana

> > > > > c)

> > > > > > > sabda. So try to use sabda by faith, pratyaksa by health

> > and

> > > > > anumana

> > > > > > > by mental strength.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Infact on my site You can find sambandha article where

> > these

> > > > > things

> > > > > > > are mentioned. Practice will make You strong in

> accepting

> > > > things

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > if not what to do..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > From that angle this is not a good example even if it

> > > > eliminates

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > 2nd house as you have described. Now, how often

> this 'glove

> > > > > fits' in

> > > > > > > randomly selected charts is anyone's guess! Also,

> another

> > > thing

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > consider would be that upapada alone may not completely

> > > describe

> > > > > > > solely the spouse but more the nature of the marital

> life

> > > etc,

> > > > > > > whereas

> > > > > > > dara/kalatra pada would perhaps have a say in describing

> > the

> > > > > nature

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > the spouse etc. In this chart (I hope you did not have

> to

> > > > change

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > original birthtime drastically which would then confound

> > the

> > > > > issue

> > > > > > > even more!).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > [rafal] A7 is for sambandha while UL is for Vivaha, let

> us

> > > be

> > > > > clear

> > > > > > > on this. Darapada can give love marriage if connected to

> > > > > Upapada.

> > > > > > > Darapada shows all persons which will come to You

> attracted

> > > by

> > > > > Your

> > > > > > > personality. Therefore a7 shows those who which to take,

> > > while

> > > > > UL

> > > > > > > those who wish to give. Hopefully all agree that

> marriage

> > is

> > > > > giving

> > > > > > > (venus uccha in meena rasi - vyaya bhava in naisargika

> > > kundali).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The pada of the 7th house falls in the 5th a karmic

> house

> > > which

> > > > > holds

> > > > > > > sun and mercury. Sun as we know also represents aging or

> > > older

> > > > > > > persons

> > > > > > > (many individuals with sun rising will look older than

> they

> > > > > actually

> > > > > > > are and often have loss of hair etc the other indicator

> of

> > > old

> > > > > age,

> > > > > > > while saturn rising generally gives a younger look,

> again

> > > not

> > > > in

> > > > > 100%

> > > > > > > cases obviously). Sun is with debilitated but cancelled

> > > mercury

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > both are in saturn's star which is placed in the 9th.

> The

> > > > > spiritual

> > > > > > > angle fits in this scheme. Also, the dispositor of the

> 7th

> > > pada

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > guru and it is placed in the 7th house itself and given

> its

> > > > > dharmic

> > > > > > > nature can be explained with the alternative manner that

> I

> > am

> > > > > > > describing. Cancer (her rising) is in trikona from the

> 7th

> > > pada

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > cancer is also ruled by moon which is the darakaraka (I

> use

> > > an

> > > > > > > ayanamsha that is closer to Raman -- you are probably

> > > getting

> > > > > moon as

> > > > > > > atmakaraka!). As far as the 'water' is concerned pisces

> is

> > > as

> > > > > watery

> > > > > > > if not more than cancer, if you catch my drift!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You see this is the 'quandry' if you wish to call it, in

> > > > jyotish.

> > > > > > > Sometimes when one factor in a given horoscope begins to

> > > look

> > > > too

> > > > > > > sweet, one must become cautious as the factor may not

> work

> > > in

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > next

> > > > > > > chart. All jyotishis will admit to themselves that, and

> > more

> > > > > need to

> > > > > > > come out and admit publicly so that we don't create

> > > unreasonable

> > > > > > > expectations in the great unwashed (as the expression

> goes).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I hope you take the time to read this message and not

> react

> > > to

> > > > it

> > > > > > > superficially. Once again, I am not pointing fingers at

> > > anyone

> > > > > > > directly or confrontationally, be they ancient teachers

> or

> > > > > modern or

> > > > > > > their views. I am personally not sold rigidly on this

> issue

> > > of

> > > > > > > upapada

> > > > > > > also, as I have shown here, there are many ways to peel

> a

> > > > banana

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > to enjoy it equally! Mystically, that is one of the

> > > strengths of

> > > > > > > astrology as a divinatory craft!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > RR

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

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To Mr. Gendarz -- Jyotish is elegant and hence must be simple!

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