theist Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 Photo in the News: Skeleton "Valentines" Won't Be Parted <!--- start photonews.html correct filename, chuckychange ---> <!-- new code insert table , chuckychange --> <table align="center" border="0" width="100"> <tbody> <tr> <td colspan="2" valign="top"> </td> </tr><tr> <td> Email to a Friend</td> <td> More Photos in the News </td> </tr> </tbody></table> ........ language="javascript"> var caption = 'Photograph from Archaeological Society SAP/AP Photo '; .........> <!-- end rel stor subtemplate --> <!-- leave the Zdeck alone! --> <!--- startbody ---> February 13, 2007—In what's been called a Valentine's Day gift to Italy, archaeologists today excavated two interlocked Stone Age skeletons—leaving their "eternal embrace" intact and making it easier to analyze the double burial. Discovered last week during construction not far from Verona, the setting of Romeo and Juliet, the roughly 5,000-year-old couple has already become an icon of enduring love to many.<!--- deckend ---> Like Shakespeare's star-crossed lovers, the prehistoric twosome appear to be young, as evidenced by the condition of their teeth. But that's about all that is known about them so far. They could just as easily be two brothers. But dig supervisor Elena Menotti takes the romantic view. "It was a very emotional discovery," the archaeologist told the Associated Press last week. "From thousands of years ago we feel the strength of this love. Yes, we must call it love." ---------------------------- We can see alot in this photo. I see the soul's need to love and to be loved expressed. We all have that. The sad thing is that we are trying to express this need for love through dead matter and the picture above represents the most that can come from that attempt in this temporary world. It is not enough. Soul's do not need flesh blood and bones to know love. Love is our desire, the desire of the spiritsoul. Bones don't desire to love. And love is not just a chemical reaction due to dopamine in the brain as the materialists would have us believe. The picture above gives a perfectly encapsulated vision of the materialist's paltry ideal of "enduring love." Devotees have a different picture in mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brajeshwara das Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 It will be interesting to see how people react if it turns out they were killing each other. I don't mean to sound mean spirited, so don't take that the wrong way. I certainly wish those jivas well, wherever they are now. But I can imagine some people holding onto the myth of two lovers even if they turn out to have been mortal enemies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted February 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2007 Definitely. The material world is one in which we don't let the facts don't get in the way of our cherished illusions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yogesh Posted February 16, 2007 Report Share Posted February 16, 2007 It will be interesting to see how people react if it turns out they were killing each other. I don't mean to sound mean spirited, so don't take that the wrong way. I certainly wish those jivas well, wherever they are now. But I can imagine some people holding onto the myth of two lovers even if they turn out to have been mortal enemies. You mean like a lovers quarrel?? OHHH NOOOO he forgot to buy her Valentine Present!!!!! So she could be choking the poor guy??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted February 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2007 Hahaha! Too cheap to pony up for some flowers and chocolate and look what it got him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brajeshwara das Posted February 16, 2007 Report Share Posted February 16, 2007 Ah, so is 'love' in the material world. They could have bought flowers for Krishna and given to Him together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted February 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2007 Ah, so is 'love' in the material world. They could have bought flowers for Krishna and given to Him together. Ahhh yes. The devotees perspective. Indeed in that way their love would be eternal. Which brings up the question of amorus love between two jivas in the spitirual world with Krsna in the center. Why not? There must be some place in Vaikuntha for such expressions of love as long as it is 100% Krsna centered. Never heard for sure though. What do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zjj Posted February 18, 2007 Report Share Posted February 18, 2007 Haribol! Who says those skeletons were not devotees? Obviously this is all just speculation but simply because they loved each other does not mean they did not love god. Do we not have devis in our scriptures who were satis? Are there not purusha in our shastra who sacrificed everything to protect their wives? ie Rama and Sita. If those two skeletons turn out to be a woman and a man, how do we know she did not love him as Krishna? How do we know he did not love her as Radha? I think that picture is very romantic and sad and beautiful. We should see the good in the world, not the deficiencies. And I hope that if I ever get married then I love my husband that way too, like he is Krishna come to me in human form and I could never bear to be parted from him, even in death. Jai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brajeshwara das Posted February 19, 2007 Report Share Posted February 19, 2007 Haribol! Who says those skeletons were not devotees? Obviously this is all just speculation but simply because they loved each other does not mean they did not love god. Do we not have devis in our scriptures who were satis? Are there not purusha in our shastra who sacrificed everything to protect their wives? ie Rama and Sita. If those two skeletons turn out to be a woman and a man, how do we know she did not love him as Krishna? How do we know he did not love her as Radha? I think that picture is very romantic and sad and beautiful. We should see the good in the world, not the deficiencies. And I hope that if I ever get married then I love my husband that way too, like he is Krishna come to me in human form and I could never bear to be parted from him, even in death. Jai I think the point is it is speculation exactly what they are doing, and that people romanticize the death and are making a big deal about it without knowing what's really going on. We're just having some speculation of our own, and using it to contrast spiritual love with what is normally known as love in the material world. Of course there is often a spiritual element in many unions, so I mean no disrespect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zjj Posted February 19, 2007 Report Share Posted February 19, 2007 Indeed, Brajeshwara Prabhu, it is all just speculation. That is what I was doing - speculating. Those skeletons might yet turn out to be two men instead of a couple. Who knows? Haribol! Jai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2007 Report Share Posted February 20, 2007 Indeed, Brajeshwara Prabhu, it is all just speculation. That is what I was doing - speculating. Those skeletons might yet turn out to be two men instead of a couple. Who knows? Haribol! Jai They might just be a couple of men Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brajeshwara das Posted February 20, 2007 Report Share Posted February 20, 2007 They might just be a couple of men Who's trying to impersonate me? Oh, that would be me. It could turn out to be a couple of men who were also in love, but not in that way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zjj Posted February 20, 2007 Report Share Posted February 20, 2007 Who's trying to impersonate me? Oh, that would be me. It could turn out to be a couple of men who were also in love, but not in that way Or maybe it's a couple of men in love in that way. Jai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zjj Posted February 20, 2007 Report Share Posted February 20, 2007 Maybe they're a couple of men locked in a death grip. That would be funny wouldn't it, considering that all those archeaologists think they're Romeo and Juliet. Jai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brajeshwara das Posted February 20, 2007 Report Share Posted February 20, 2007 Or maybe it's a couple of men in love in that way. Jai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bija Posted February 20, 2007 Report Share Posted February 20, 2007 Maybe they were two panditas (philosophers) in heated debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brajeshwara das Posted February 20, 2007 Report Share Posted February 20, 2007 Maybe they were two panditas (philosophers) in heated debate. Yes, and we know what the question is, don't we - orgin of the soul, spiritual world or marginal plane? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zjj Posted February 20, 2007 Report Share Posted February 20, 2007 So then the debate became so heated that they both dropped dead while clasping hands? Jai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brajeshwara das Posted February 20, 2007 Report Share Posted February 20, 2007 So then the debate became so heated that they both dropped dead while clasping hands? Jai That's the mental speculation, yes. If I say it enough times I'll believe it's true, that's how that works for me anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bija Posted February 20, 2007 Report Share Posted February 20, 2007 The skeleton on the right is a smaller frame, so it seems that they were a couple. To say that they did not have deep spiritual love for each other and just bodily attachment, is a matter of speculation. It would be interesting to know about the cultural background of this particular burial, and the peoples customs and insights. It makes me think of a couple of dear friends I have. They are committed to a spiritual path that teaches in the philosophy, that souls can be united eternally. In their church they perform a ritual where they become married for eternity. This particular couple are almost eighty years old. What is really amazing is to see the impact their spirituality has had on their married lives. They are fully committed to each other and fully in love. I am sure their love for each other is on a deep spiritual level, and not based solely on bodily identification. I have perceived this from their interactions with each other. This is what I find interesting. How the cultural and spiritual teachings can influence our perceptions on marital love. From the above picture, we can see that possibly the deceased couple had concepts of union for eternity, just like my elderly Mormon friends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bija Posted February 20, 2007 Report Share Posted February 20, 2007 Quote: <table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> Originally Posted by brajeshwara das Ah, so is 'love' in the material world. They could have bought flowers for Krishna and given to Him together. </td> </tr> </tbody></table> <!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --> Ahhh yes. The devotees perspective. Indeed in that way their love would be eternal. Which brings up the question of amorus love between two jivas in the spitirual world with Krsna in the center. Why not? There must be some place in Vaikuntha for such expressions of love as long as it is 100% Krsna centered. Never heard for sure though. What do you think? quote by Theist Theist, this concept of amorous love between two jiva's for eternity with God in the center, seems to be my friends concept of eternity. They have a kind of progressive evolvement in their philosophy. Where as a married couple in the spiritual world they will eventually have certain responsibilities of creation. Some great mysteries for sure, which words fall short of describing. Who knows...the spiritual reality is unlimited. So expansive, maybe anything is possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted February 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2007 Surely we can't limit the possibilities. Of course if Krsna is not 100% the center then it's not vaikuntha. One soul must have love for all the other souls there that are also serving Krsna. How many varieties of that love I wonder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bija Posted February 20, 2007 Report Share Posted February 20, 2007 Interesting thoughts Theist, I have also pondered such things. Diversity and Unity would be a key contemplation on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brajeshwara das Posted February 20, 2007 Report Share Posted February 20, 2007 There are mariages in Krishna Loka, right? Krsna has a father and mother etc. I would have to think that there is some form of partnerships in service. This material world is a perverted reflection, but it is a reflection. If there is not a root there in that plane, how can there reflection here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zjj Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 There are mariages in Krishna Loka, right? Krsna has a father and mother etc. I would have to think that there is some form of partnerships in service. This material world is a perverted reflection, but it is a reflection. If there is not a root there in that plane, how can there reflection here? That makes sense, I'm sure there's truth to it, Prabhu. Still, I'd rather be married to Krishna! Haribol! Jai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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