Varnashrama Dharma, A Morning Walk Conversation

[Guest guest]

Varnashrama Dharma

[A Morning Walk Conversation]

Hilo, Hawaii: February 7, 2005.

Tridandisvami Sri Srimad Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja

 

[srila Narayana Maharaja:] I want that we follow varnasrama-dharma *[see endnote 1]. Varnasrama dharma is of two kinds: daiva-varnasrama *[2] and smarta-varnasrama.*[3]. We reject smarta, but we follow daiva-varnasrama – especially as established by Srila Sanatana Gosvami in his Hari-bhakti-vilasa. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura Prabhupada also established it, as did our Gurudeva Srila Bhaktiprajnana Kesava Maharaja and Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja.

Srila Prabhupada Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura would become very angry when he spoke about the smarta presentation of varnasrama. He declared, “We should follow daiva-varnasrama, but smarta varnasrama-dharma should be ruined at once.”*[4]

 

Are you in daiva-varnasrama-dharma or are you out of it?

 

[Devotee] I don’t know what the difference is between the first one and the second one. I thought we are supposed to be trying to get out of the varnasrama-dharma.

 

[srila Narayana Maharaja:] All brahmacaris, grhasthas, vanaprasthas and sannyasis are within varnasrama. The asramas are brahmacari, grhastha, vanaprastha and sannyasa. We are all naturally part of varnasrama, and we should therefore try to accept and very strongly follow its principles. Those who are married should be ideal grhasthas, following the instructions in Sri Hari-bhakti-vilasa. It is not that one may have two, three, four or five marriages. Be satisfied with one wife or husband, and don’t divorce. Remain together for your entire life. Then afterwards, in old age, if you have life, give up all entanglements and become absorbed in bhajana.

 

Brahmacaris and sannyasis should hear hari-katha; then they will automatically become detached. Why should a sannyasi marry? He should never marry. And why should a vanaprastha marry again? Varnaprasthas should be very strict. They should try to gradually progress, not to go down. If a brahmacari is going to marry, or if a vanaprastha gives up his old wife and wants a new one, it simply means that lust and so many anarthas are present in his heart and his activities.

 

So try to advance. If you are grhastha, remain in that position and be ideal, like Srivasa Pandita, Sri Advaita Acarya, the Pandavas and many others like them. Be ideal; follow Hari-bhakti-vilasa.

 

Varnasrama-dharma is favorable when it assists in worshipping Lord Sri Krsna and Sri Guru, and when it assists in developing bhakti; otherwise it is unfavorable.

 

[Devotee:] Varnasrama dharma is not the goal, because Mahaprabhu rejected it. He said it is only like a platform.

 

[srila Narayana Maharaja:] But the platform must come first. If even a sannyasi is marrying, where is his platform for developing bhakti? If a brahmacari is always independently going here and there, and a grhastha is remarrying and again remarrying, and within his marriage he does not follow the scriptural principles of household life, this will not do. There should be a ground, a foundation, and that foundation should be very strong.

 

[Rupa Manohara dasa:] Srila Gurudeva? Isn’t it also that the varnas (occupational duties) include ksatriya, vaisya, brahmana and sudra as part of varnasrama dharma?

 

[srila Narayana Maharaja:] This is not daiva-varnasrama. Any sudra, any person who eats cow meat and other forbidden things, any Mohammedan, Christian or Buddhist, can come and follow daiva-varnasrama-dharma. At first, in the Sankara-sampradaya and even in the Ramanuja and Madhava sampradayas, only a born-brahmana could be given sannyasa. But Srila Prabhupada Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura introduced the understanding, and also the practice, that anyone can be given sannyasa – not ladies, but all males can – whether they are sudras, Mohammedan, outcasts, Christians or persons of any other religious faith, position, cultural or family background.*[5] They can all take sannyasa.

 

Srila Prabhupada Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami established this, and his followers have also established it. Otherwise, besides him, the members of our samaja (society) were not accepting his understanding at all. He was very bold, and he boldly taught and acted according to the principles of daiva-varnasrama. Thus, many smarta-brahmanas opposed him.

 

[Gopa-vrindapala dasa:] Srila Gurudeva, after Mahaprabhu and before Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura Prabhupada, was there no varnasrama in the Gaudiya line?

 

[srila Narayana Maharaja:] They used to wear paramahamsa-vesa, the dress of the paramahamsa. Paramahamsa is more than sannyasa, but these people also rejected daiva-varnasrama and its principles and became so-called paramahamsas. *[6] We are sannyasis. Even if we give someone babaji-vesa (the dress and station of a babaji, he is still in varnasrama. An ordinary person cannot be a paramahamsa. Lord Nityananda Prabhu*[7] and Srila Sukadeva Gosvami*[8], who are real paramahamsas, are allowed even to be naked. Such pure devotees are beyond all rules and regulations, and they are even beyond the control of the Vedas.

 

[Padmanabha Maharaja] If babaji-vesa is still within varnasrama, why are some persons given babaji-vesa instead of sannyasa?

 

[srila Narayana Maharaja:] Only because they cannot preach. Babaji-vesa is allowed for those who cannot preach, and for those who are not in knowledge of siddhanta (established philosophical conclusions). Sannyasis should know all siddhanta and preach throughout the world.

 

[srila Narayana Maharaja:] Regarding avadhuta-vesa,*[9] this is not given at all. Rather, it comes automatically. The pure devotee avadhuta may be naked or he may marry – whatever he does or doesn’t do, there is no harm for him. Nityananda Prabhu was a paramahamsa avadhuta. He married, and there was no harm for him in that. Lord Sri Krsna married thousands upon thousands of wives, and at the same time He is the topmost paramahamsa.

 

*Endnotes:

1. [“Human civilization begins from the stage of varnasrama-dharma, or specific duties in terms of the specific modes of nature of the body obtained. Discharging one’s specific duty in any field of action in accordance with the orders of higher authorities serves to elevate one to a higher status of life. (Bhagavad-gita 2.31 purport)”]

 

2. [before coming to the standard of varnasrama-dharma there is no question of human civilization. Therefore, the Krsna consciousness movement is trying to establish this right system of human civilization, which is known as Krsna consciousness, or daiva-varnasrama – divine culture.( Science of Self-Realization, Chapter 3)]

 

[“The acaryas who advocate the daiva-varnasrama (the social order of catur-varnyam mentioned in Bhagavad-gita) do not accept the proposition of asura-varnasrama, which maintains that the social order of varna is indicated by birth.” (Srimad-Bhagavatam 11.23.57 purport)]

 

3 and 5. [Yes. Striyo vaisyas tatha sudrah. This striya, generally they take it, “Even she is prostitute,” striya. Te ’pi yanti param gatim: “They can also go back to home, back to Godhead.” Mam hi partha... If he takes Krsna very seriously, then everything is possible. No impediment. Ahaituky apratihata. Krsna devotional service is so strong that it cannot be checked by any material impediments. The smartas, they are thinking like that, “How these mlecchas and yavanas can become a brahmana?” But they do not know that by Krsna consciousness one can jump over. Mayam etam taranti te. Daivi hy esa gunamayi mama maya duratyaya [bg. 7.14]. Maya is very strong. Therefore there are gradual process. Varnasrama-dharma, karma-tyaga, this, that, so many things, pious activities, rituals. But this is the process, step by step, to cross over maya. But Krsna said, mam eva ye prapadyante mayam etam taranti te. Anyone who surrenders to Krsna sincerely, immediately he crosses over. As Krsna says in another place, aham tvam sarva-papebhyo moksayisyami: [bg. 18.66] “I’ll do immediately.” So maya means papa. Unless one is sinful, he cannot be in maya. So if one surrenders, then he, means, immediately crosses over maya. So these smarta brahmanas, they consider this thing. They are thinking, “How a person born in other families, they can become brahmana?” (Srila Prabhupada, Morning Walk, February 9, 1976)]

 

[“One can acquire the respective qualifications by one’s own efforts, and thus the son of a Vaisnava can become a mleccha, or the son of a candala can become more than a brahmana, all in terms of their association and intimate relation with the Supreme Lord.” (Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.16.20 purport)]

 

4. [“Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, however, wanted to re-establish daiva-varnsarama. In daiva-varnasrama there cannot be acknowledgement of social status according to birthright because in Bhagavad-gita it is said that the determining considerations are guna and karma, one’s qualities and work. It is this daiva-varnasrama that should be established all over the world to continue a perfect society for Krsna consciousness. This may be astonishing to foolish critics, but it is one of the functions of a Krsna conscious society.” (Srimad-Bhagavatam 5.1.24 purport)]

 

6. [After Sriman Mahaprabhu, His lila-parikaras (eternal pastime associates) such as the six Gosvamis, Sri Lokanatha and Bhugarbha, and later Sri Krsnadasa Kaviraja, Sri Narottama Thakura, and Sri Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura were naturally niskincana paramahamsa Vaisnavas. There was no need for them to wear sannyasa-vesa, saffron cloth. Secondly, Sriman Mahaprabhu had performed the lila of wearing sannyasa-vesa and saffron cloth. Thus considering themselves to be worthless, lowly and unqualified, these mahatmas did not wear sannyasa-vesa and saffron cloth in order to show honor and respect to the vesa of Sriman Mahaprabhu and also to maintain their own identities as servants under the shelter of His lotus feet. On the other hand, in order to express veneration for the niskincana paramahamsa-vesa of the associates of Sriman Mahaprabhu, and, under their guidance to preach His message throughout the entire world, many akincana Vaisnavas on the path of raganuga-bhajana, holding the paramahamsa-vesa upon their heads, have accepted a position below their worshipable superiors by wearing the saffron cloth of the sannyasa asrama which is included within the system of varnasrama dharma. These two customs, each having their own place, are both exquisitely beautiful and also completely in accordance with siddhanta. Today suddha-hari-bhakti has been, is being, and will continue to be, preached and spread throughout the world by these mahapurusas, great perfected saints, who wear this second type of niskincana sannyasi-vesa. (from Five Essential Essays)]

 

[“When Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura saw that many babajis were now bogus, that they were with widow matajis and producing sons, he became very furious and said that we will again accept the same saffron cloth of others like Ramanujacarya, Madhvacarya, Mahaprabhu, and Isvara Puripada. He then preached everywhere in the world. At that time, those family persons who were of loose character and had no status in society honored these bogus babajis. That is why Srila Prabhupada Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura re-introduced the reddish cloth and sannyasa. Presently, those who are bogus persons, but were previously in the Gaudiya Matha, have become lusty and have thus been kicked out from the Gaudiya Matha. Now they have become babajis.” (Lecture by Srila Nararyana Maharaja, June 10, 2001)]

 

7. [“By calling Nityananda Prabhu a bhrasta avadhuta (a rejected paramahamsa), Advaita Acarya Prabhu in a sense accepted Nityananda Prabhu as a paramahamsa. In other words, Nityananda Prabhu had nothing to do with the rules governing smarta-brahmanas. Thus under pretense of condemning Him, Advaita Acarya was actually praising Him. In the avadhuta stage, the paramahamsa stage, which is the supermost stage, one may appear to be visayi, on the platform of sense gratification, but in actuality he has nothing to do with sense gratification. At that stage, a person sometimes accepts the symptoms and dress of a sannyasi and sometimes does not. Sometimes he dresses like a householder.” (Sri Caitanya Caritamrta Madhya-lila 3.85 purport]

 

8. [At that moment there appeared the powerful son of Vyasadeva [sri Sukadeva Gosvami], who traveled over the earth disinterested and satisfied with himself. He did not manifest any symptoms of belonging to any social order or status of life. He was surrounded with women and children, and he dressed as if others had neglected him. (Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.19.25)]

[Beggar]

Sri Sri Prapanna Jivanamrtam, compiled by Srila B.R. Sridhar Maharaja

Verse 4:3 by Sri Kulasekhara:

nastha dharme na vasu-nicaye naiva kamopabhoge

yad yad bhavyam bhavatu bhagavan purva-karmanurupam

etat prarthyam mama bahu-matam janma-janmantare 'pi

tvat padambhoruha-yuga-gata niscala bhaktir astu

"O Lord, I have no faith in religiosity, economic development, or sense enjoyment. May all these things come to pass as they are ordained according to my previous karma. But my earnest prayer is that birth after birth I may have unflinching devotion for Your lotus feet."

Srila B.S. Govinda Maharaja:It is not very difficult to understand what Krishna-bhakti is, but what is necessary is the mood of surrender. If you surrender you can understand everything; if you do not fully surrender then many difficulties will come. There is no difficulty for the surrendered soul.

[Guest guest]

Hare Krsna,All prabhus

 

This is the same NM that just a few yrs ago said we don't need interest in DVD? Wow, what an about face, I saw a transcript of a lecture/conversation for NM where he sited Ramananda Raya's conversation with Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu as evedence that we would reject the idea of DVD, Isa das, one of NM sadhika's, showed me the lecture transcript as the position that NM took on the subject. Bas. Even when I tryed to question Isa and show him the standard of Srila Prabhupada on the subject of DVD Isa would not have a converstion and shut me out saying it is what it is. He showed me, I read it, that's what it is.

 

I have trouble trusting the DVD expertise of some one that is just now getting it after so many yrs NM was a devotee in the Gaudiya Math. Just now he is getting? When I've been saying this for 35 yrs to everyone I meet, karmi or devotee. Now Gopavrindapal das is interested? He made so much fun of me in LA temple, back in the day, it was sickening and I took it like a dog because he presented himself as a brahaman, I wanted to be a good submissive ksatriya, oh man what an idiot I was. Never again! Look at him now kissing up to this pretender make show of support of DVD. Blah, Blah

 

Do not be fooled by the johnny come latelies. These people are looking to get on a band wagon. Just a couple of yrs ago they were all saying 'nonsense, we do not do DVD, Your are monkey stool Caturbahu we reject you and your insane DVD ideas' Watch out, beware!! the pretenders are coming!! they will give something different than Srila Prabhupada. And you will again be cheated, with intangible results mostly based in illusion as your gift for blind faith.

 

I remenber you Gopavrndapal, like an elephant, and how you treated me when I would talk to you about Srila Prabhupada's order to create DVD in ISKCON. I remember YOU, Gubber-vrinda-pile.

 

Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das Bhakti-Raja

[Guest guest]

 

Hare Krsna,All prabhus

 

This is the same NM that just a few yrs ago said we don't need interest in DVD? Wow, what an about face, I saw a transcript of a lecture/conversation for NM where he sited Ramananda Raya's conversation with Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu as evedence that we would reject the idea of DVD, Isa das, one of NM sadhika's, showed me the lecture transcript as the position that NM took on the subject. Bas. Even when I tryed to question Isa and show him the standard of Srila Prabhupada on the subject of DVD Isa would not have a converstion and shut me out saying it is what it is. He showed me, I read it, that's what it is.

 

I have trouble trusting the DVD expertise of some one that is just now getting it after so many yrs NM was a devotee in the Gaudiya Math. Just now he is getting? When I've been saying this for 35 yrs to everyone I meet, karmi or devotee. Now Gopavrindapal das is interested? He made so much fun of me in LA temple, back in the day, it was sickening and I took it like a dog because he presented himself as a brahaman, I wanted to be a good submissive ksatriya, oh man what an idiot I was. Never again! Look at him now kissing up to this pretender make show of support of DVD. Blah, Blah

 

Do not be fooled by the johnny come latelies. These people are looking to get on a band wagon. Just a couple of yrs ago they were all saying 'nonsense, we do not do DVD, Your are monkey stool Caturbahu we reject you and your insane DVD ideas' Watch out, beware!! the pretenders are coming!! they will give something different than Srila Prabhupada. And you will again be cheated, with intangible results mostly based in illusion as your gift for blind faith.

 

I remenber you Gopavrndapal, like an elephant, and how you treated me when I would talk to you about Srila Prabhupada's order to create DVD in ISKCON. I remember YOU, Gubber-vrinda-pile.

 

Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das Bhakti-Raja

 

 

Gopa, you tried to break my spirit and faith in Srila Prabhupada, for this I do not easily fogive. You owe me big time! And then some...

 

Stay out of the DVD field is my payment. You do not belong here, you cheated and are disqualified.

 

I stayed true to DVD and Prabhupada. You simply didn't!

 

CB-R

[Shakti-Fan]

 

Hare Krsna,All prabhus

 

This is the same NM that just a few yrs ago said we don't need interest in DVD? Wow, what an about face, I saw a transcript of a lecture/conversation for NM where he sited Ramananda Raya's conversation with Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu as evedence that we would reject the idea of DVD, Isa das, one of NM sadhika's, showed me the lecture transcript as the position that NM took on the subject. Bas. Even when I tryed to question Isa and show him the standard of Srila Prabhupada on the subject of DVD Isa would not have a converstion and shut me out saying it is what it is. He showed me, I read it, that's what it is.

 

I have trouble trusting the DVD expertise of some one that is just now getting it after so many yrs NM was a devotee in the Gaudiya Math. Just now he is getting? When I've been saying this for 35 yrs to everyone I meet, karmi or devotee. Now Gopavrindapal das is interested? He made so much fun of me in LA temple, back in the day, it was sickening and I took it like a dog because he presented himself as a brahaman, I wanted to be a good submissive ksatriya, oh man what an idiot I was. Never again! Look at him now kissing up to this pretender make show of support of DVD. Blah, Blah

 

Do not be fooled by the johnny come latelies. These people are looking to get on a band wagon. Just a couple of yrs ago they were all saying 'nonsense, we do not do DVD, Your are monkey stool Caturbahu we reject you and your insane DVD ideas' Watch out, beware!! the pretenders are coming!! they will give something different than Srila Prabhupada. And you will again be cheated, with intangible results mostly based in illusion as your gift for blind faith.

 

I remenber you Gopavrndapal, like an elephant, and how you treated me when I would talk to you about Srila Prabhupada's order to create DVD in ISKCON. I remember YOU, Gubber-vrinda-pile.

 

Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das Bhakti-Raja

An excellent post by a third grade elementary student analyzing the words of a graduate professor. Then we have to couple this with the fact that Mr. self proclaimed Bhakti-Raja (who has no idea what his self-proclaimed title really means or infers) has an intellegence which is about as sharp as a dull butter knife. It is clear that Mr. King of Bhakti is following his own mind as guru while shrouded in the delusion that he is actually following Srila Prabhupada. Meanwhile he is simiply following his delusional mind into the abyss of vaisnava aparadha. What else would you expect?

[Shakti-Fan]

x

[Guest guest]

 

An excellent post by a third grade elementary student analyzing the words of a graduate professor. Then we have to couple this with the fact that Mr. self proclaimed Bhakti-Raja (who has no idea what his self-proclaimed title really means or infers) has an intellegence which is about as sharp as a dull butter knife. It is clear that Mr. King of Bhakti is following his own mind as guru while shrouded in the delusion that he is actually following Srila Prabhupada. Meanwhile he is simiply following his delusional mind into the abyss of vaisnava aparadha. What else would you expect?

 

 

 

Yes, full of pain and passion, it is freely admitted. And I tried to be nice to you and explain my name, but maybe you chose not to hear that day. You are as free as I am to choose. So try to stop stepping on my choice out of envy, conceit. You have chosen to have a 'living' guru middle man, I do not. Never again will I. Been there, done that, already covered that ground.

 

And for your information Gopavrnadapal was one of these poeple. I spent 25 yrs listening to this retoric and attempting to act on it. My only criteria was 'do these gurus sound and speak as Srila Prabhupada?' The answer is a resounding NOOOOO. I refuse to cover the same ground again. The lessen is that Guru is in my heart and He manifests in a myriad of ways. You and yours have not been one of them. Though I tested yrs ago, Mula knows, she was the devotee I talked to in Sevakunja. Three times I went to there temple.

 

I do not try to take your free will, only an attempt to shake you awake a little is my purpose. And this post above is between Gopa and me. Only he can set things right. And sense he is a rich man, let him(Gopa) come here to Alachua in person. You on the other hand are not invited, though if you do show up I promise to recieve you with a smile, honor and respect. That's a hell of a lot more than you display on line in topics that you address me.

 

Name is given by Srila Prabhupada, first, middle and suffex. Last name I chose to rid myself of a non-discript surname, to better denote the mood/heart of the bearer. Is the straight forward honesty of this explanation beyond you? You embaras yourself with the strawman 'King of Bhakti' remark. Your a very small person.

 

What name does the world call you? John, Peter, Paul, Marry, Jeanie, Jane? At least when I am addressed they chant the holy name of Visnu. And I get the chance to help them on their path by reverberating transendental sound. Is there a 'John' loka?

 

AS for NM he is my cousen/Godbrother, his spiritual master is my Goduncle, Godbrother to my Guru. It is family. If that is a problem for you, then please do not read anything I post on NM so you will not be agitated. I'm only calling a spade a spade.

 

Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das Bhakti-Raja

[Beggar]

&

[Guest guest]

Hare Krsna, All-readers

 

There are two perdominant disscusion availible from Srila Prabhupada on the subject of DVD. 1st is on March 14 1974 and 2nd is February 14 1977. These of course are the epitone or high spots. Many more details are availible. I will accept siksa from the brahaman that repeats as Srila Prabhupada says in both these conversations, with all nuances included, completely. Does anyone know this person?????

 

Caturbahu das Bhakti-Raja

[Guest guest]

"And this post above is between Gopa and me. Only he can set things right."

 

I thought this was supposed to be a topic about Varnashram. Whatever personal quarrels you may have with other devotees, why not just take it up with them. We all know there are two sides to every story, (you are after all, a ritvik, and we know how ritviks love to twist things), and since they aren't here to defend themselves from your public attacks, better to use a little discretion. Thanks.

[Guest guest]

 

I have had a mystic vision. I can see that Caturbahu das Bhakti-Raja is actually a vaisha and not in fact a kstatriya. I see him on the farm way down South, working the lower 40 (acres) with the back hoe. (consonant missing, use your imagination) where they are growing goober peas. I can see is new name. Yes, yes, Private First Class Catur Blowhard Aparadhi Raja! Shazam! Seargent Bhakta Carter is calling you Private!

 

Begger, begger, begger. Beg all you want, I'm not biteing. Interesting how your name denotes who you are.

 

CB-R

[Guest guest]

 

"And this post above is between Gopa and me. Only he can set things right."

 

I thought this was supposed to be a topic about Varnashram. Whatever personal quarrels you may have with other devotees, why not just take it up with them. We all know there are two sides to every story, (you are after all, a ritvik, and we know how ritviks love to twist things), and since they aren't here to defend themselves from your public attacks, better to use a little discretion. Thanks.

 

Yes, I stand corrected, thank you. I'm not a 'Ritvic' though, it is a very small thing to me, only a part of a whole. If a lable is to apply then I accept the one Puranjan gave me... Varnasrama Caturbahu

 

Let us repeat as Srila Prabhupada says on the suject of DVD. My personal trash is put away. Thank you for correction, I take it as Prabhupada coming through you, as siksa.

 

CB-R

[Beggar]

Just as there were no WMD in Iraq, there is no evidence of DVD in Alachua except at the local video store!

[Beggar]

 

I have had a mystic vision. I can see that Caturbahu das Bhakti-Raja is actually a vaisha and not in fact a kstatriya. I see him on the farm way down South, working the lower 40 (acres) with the back hoe. (consonant missing, use your imagination) where they are growing goober peas. I can see is new name. Yes, yes, Private First Class Catur Blowhard Aparadhi Raja! Shazam! Seargent Bhakta Carter is calling you Private!

 

If look back at post #8 I actually tried to delete my comments before anybody read them because the post is even a little wild even for me. But I guess Super Soul wanted it to be seen. It was your "Gubber-vrinda-pile" comment that I found offensive and really set me off. Actually though that's pretty funny. But now if I ever run into him I'll think Gubber-vrinda-pile, rather than Gopa Vrindapala and instead of thinking of Krsna, I'll think of Gomer Pyle PFC, U.S. Marines. Of course one does not want to think of Jim Neighbors too much unless they want to be a member of GALVA in their next life. Of course you could visualize Bhakta Jim singing

mangal artika down there at the Alachuee Temple, to the delight of all the farmis. He wasn't really such a bad singer after all. Gubber Pyle ki Jaya!!!

[Guest guest]

 

Just as there were no WMD in Iraq, there is no evidence of DVD in Alachua except at the local video store!

 

 

Yes, that is right! conspicous by its absents from the largest so-called devotee enclave in the Western hemisphere. All camps are represented here, none are doing. That is my point, over and over and over again for 34 yrs. No organization/management according to guna and karma. Just common American life, no difference practically from the non devotees.

 

Devotees are neglecting 50% of what the Hare Krsna movement is and all that entails. And lost the first 50% because of it. That is if you are a follower of Srila Prabhupada! If not, then this is not for you.

 

Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das

[Beggar]

 

 

Devotees are neglecting 50% of what the Hare Krsna movement is and all that entails. And lost the first 50% because of it. That is if you are a follower of Srila Prabhupada! If not, then this is not for you.

 

Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das

All B.S. aside if its really what Prabhupada wanted then it should be for all Gaudiya Camps in the West because they owe their existence to him. Instead most of the teenage children of the H.K.s are going out and getting drunk and stoned and it is a big epidemic.

[Guest guest]

 

If look back at post #8 I actually tried to delete my comments before anybody read them because the post is even a little wild even for me. But I guess Super Soul wanted it to be seen. It was your "Gubber-vrinda-pile" comment that I found offensive and really set me off. Actually though that's pretty funny. But now if I ever run into him I'll think Gubber-vrinda-pile, rather than Gopa Vrindapala and instead of thinking of Krsna, I'll think of Gomer Pyle PFC, U.S. Marines. Of course one does not want to think of Jim Neighbors too much unless they want to be a member of GALVA in their next life. Of course you could visualize Bhakta Jim singing

mangal artika down there at the Alachuee Temple, to the delight of all the farmis. He wasn't really such a bad singer after all. Gubber Pyle ki Jaya!!!

 

 

You do not know that the Gubber name was an enderment at the time, a jest between friends, as he also called me Crazy Buffoon in retort. Ramasvara is the giver of that name, I did not make that up.

 

Hare Krsna, CB

[Guest guest]

 

All B.S. aside if its really what Prabhupada wanted then it should be for all Gaudiya Camps in the West because they owe their existence to him. Instead most of the teenage children of the H.K.s are going out and getting drunk and stoned and it is a big epidemic.

 

 

It is not the childerns fault, The parents as a whole community did not give them a DVD field to act in. Nor the requisit education on the matter of DVD. No community to be part of, only church on Sunday and then the work a day world of Kuli yuga. Yes all the Gaudiyas should follow, thank you. All the Gaudiyas, East or West.

 

Hare Krsna, CB-R

[Beggar]

 

You do not know that the Gubber name was an enderment at the time, a jest between friends, as he also called me Crazy Buffoon in retort. Ramasvara is the giver of that name, I did not make that up.

 

Hare Krsna, CB

Then because of the exalted position of Srila Ramesvara and his eternal consort, Rukmini devi dasi (who is eternally 15 yrs. old, somewhere)that must be his real name. But because of the exalted postion of Gubber Vrinda Pile PFC you must accept the title Crazy Buffon and place it at the end of your initiated name as I have done with the Crazy Gugenheim title which I have received. But that is another story.

[Guest guest]

"Ramasvara is the giver of that name, I did not make that up."

 

Ramesvara didn't like Gopavrindapal and his wife too much because they refused to do the cookie tables when ordered to and instead continued to distribute books. Then Ramesvara declared that they had no connection with Iskcon. Gopa is a Prabhupada man and in hindsight, Ramesvara's calling him "Goober" was offensive. Just because Ramesvara called him that (out of ignorance) doesn't mean we should be repeating this. Thanks.

[anadi]

 

Hare Krsna,All prabhus

 

This is the same NM that just a few yrs ago said we don't need interest in DVD? Wow,...

 

Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das Bhakti-Raja

No, is not the same SB NM. I witnessed His transformation over the years.

He became an Iskcon-ist, he made His own Iskcon named Bhakti-Trust (inside and outside).

In the beginning he used to preach, we should become begars... no problem in India, and He preached the love of the gopis and especially of the manjaris. I do have even copies of recordings of Him speaking on Vilapa Kusumanjali.

Than only Aranya Maharaja left to do it. And than he...left.

Now I read this Vilapa Kusumanjali wonder book (I was not alowed to read it, although anyone with faith in the message of Mahaprabhu should read it) and try to take some inspiration from the sweet mood of Raghunatha-dasa's revelations.

 

[Guest guest]

 

"Ramasvara is the giver of that name, I did not make that up."

 

Ramesvara didn't like Gopavrindapal and his wife too much because they refused to do the cookie tables when ordered to and instead continued to distribute books. Then Ramesvara declared that they had no connection with Iskcon. Gopa is a Prabhupada man and in hindsight, Ramesvara's calling him "Goober" was offensive. Just because Ramesvara called him that (out of ignorance) doesn't mean we should be repeating this. Thanks.

 

 

You people were not in LA at these times I'm speaking of. Ramesvara and Gopavrndapal were brahamacaries together when all this 'naming' occured, yrs before what you say as the end for Gopa. You forget, I was there very close to Gopa at this very time. In fact there was an incident that he disappeared from home, wife and association with ISKCON or anyone, for months, to reconcile his heart. The only devotees he saw for some time were my self and another of our crew. Just us, not Mula, not anyone, not you. This much I can say of him.

 

Cookie tables? I was manager of sankirtan central in LA in 1978, no cookie tables were in use by my office. And that was all of the women and men that did sankirtan in LA at that time, 1978. I think you are mistaken on your time line. I left in early 79 and Gopa shortly there after, if not physically, in his heart.

 

Please accept that there is a generation gap, before and after samadhi of Prabhupada. So unless you were there please too refrain from comment and let us get back to DVD. Please!

 

Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das Bhakti-Raja

[Beggar]

 

You people were not in LA at these times I'm speaking of. Ramesvara and Gopavrndapal were brahamacaries together when all this 'naming' occured, yrs before what you say as the end for Gopa. You forget, I was there very close to Gopa at this very time. In fact there was an incident that he disappeared from home, wife and association with ISKCON or anyone, for months, to reconcile his heart. The only devotees he saw for some time were my self and another of our crew. Just us, not Mula, not anyone, not you. This much I can say of him.

 

Cookie tables? I was manager of sankirtan central in LA in 1978, no cookie tables were in use by my office. And that was all of the women and men that did sankirtan in LA at that time, 1978. I think you are mistaken on your time line. I left in early 79 and Gopa shortly there after, if not physically, in his heart.

 

Please accept that there is a generation gap, before and after samadhi of Prabhupada. So unless you were there please too refrain from comment and let us get back to DVD. Please!

 

Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das Bhakti-Raja

Before we go back. Gopa, Mula, Jadurani and Rasangi did college preaching/book distribution in '79-'80. They wanted to follow up on and "cultivate" those who received books and thought that the college environment was best for this. Ramesvara wanted straight book distribution at the airport, DMVs and other places. Get the book, hand over the cash vas, done. Numbers, big numbers thats all he wanted, and new devotees who could become his disciples. He called the college book distributor team "The Gang of Four".

[Guest guest]

DVD is the topic. It is my fault for displaying so to much passion on line that we have diverged.

Please excuse the font, I have no knowledge how to correct when bringing from the folio.

 

TRANSLATION

 

Brähmaëas, kñatriyas, vaiçyas and çüdras are distinguished by their qualities of work, O chastiser of the enemy, in accordance with the modes of nature.

Bg 18.42

 

TEXT 42

TEXT

 

XaMaae dMaSTaPa" XaaEc& +aaiNTaraJaRvMaev c )

jaNa& ivjaNaMaaiSTaKYa& b]øk-MaR Sv>aavJaMa( )) 42 ))

çamo damas tapaù çaucaà

kñäntir ärjavam eva ca

jïänaà vijïänam ästikyaà

brahma-karma svabhäva-jam

çamaù—peacefulness; damaù—self-control; tapaù—austerity; çaucam—purity; kñäntiù—tolerance; ärjavam—honesty; eva—certainly; ca—and; jïänam—wisdom; vijïänam—knowledge; ästikyam—religiousness; brahma—of a brähmaëa; karma—duty; svabhäva-jam—born of his own nature.

 

TRANSLATION

 

Peacefulness, self-control, austerity, purity, tolerance, honesty, wisdom, knowledge, and religiousness—these are the qualities by which the brähmaëas work.

 

Bg 18.43

TEXT 43

TEXT

XaaEYa| TaeJaae Da*iTadaR+Ya& YauÖe caPYaPal/aYaNaMa( )

daNaMaqìr>aavê +aa}a& k-MaR Sv>aavJaMa( )) 43 ))

çauryaà tejo dhåtir däkñyaà

yuddhe cäpy apaläyanam

dänam éçvara-bhävaç ca

kñätraà karma svabhäva-jam

çauryam—heroism; tejaù—power; dhåtiù—determination; däkñyam—resourcefulness; yuddhe—in battle; ca—and; api—also; apaläyanam—not fleeing; dänam—generosity; éçvara—leadership; bhävaù—nature; ca—and kñätram—kñatriya; karma—duty; svabhäva-jam—born of his own nature.

 

TRANSLATION

 

Heroism, power, determination, resourcefulness, courage in battle, generosity, and leadership are the qualities of work for the kñatriyas.

 

Bg 18.44

TEXT 44

TEXT

k*-izGaaer+Yavai<aJYa& vEXYak-MaR Sv>aavJaMa( )

PaircYaaRTMak&- k-MaR éUd]SYaaiPa Sv>aavJaMa( )) 44 ))

kåñi-go-rakñya-väëijyaà

vaiçya-karma svabhäva-jam

paricaryätmakaà karma

çüdrasyäpi svabhäva-jam

kåñi—ploughing; go—cows; rakñya—protection; väëijyam—trade; vaiçya—vaiçya; karma—duty; svabhäva-jam—born of his own nature; paricaryä—service; ätmakam—nature; karma—duty; çüdrasya—of the çüdra; api—also; svabhäva-jam—born of his own nature.

 

TRANSLATION

 

Farming, cattle raising and business are the qualities of work for the vaiçyas, and for the çüdras there is labor and service to others.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The real point is now how to apply, in a pragmatic way, social management of a spiritual movement based on Krsna's guidence and Srila Prabhupada's insistance of compliance.

 

Brahman is teacher, spiritual guide.

 

Ksatriya is manager and protector. Over seer of all 4 varnas.

 

Vaisya is producer, trader of goods produced or banking.

 

Sudra is general assistant or craftsman, actor... so many things fall under sudra.

 

 

How to reapply this here and now? surrender. Be submissive to Srila Prabhupada's guidence in His books and conversations and all recorded vani. If you say ' oh, Caturbahu the world is very different from those times' I say 'get back to where you once belonged' get rid of the accumulation of anartic life styles and resurrender to the authority of Srila Prabhupada willingly, while you can. If you wait untill forced, then so much pain and suffering will come with the outside force. Better to chose 'light' and save time from the 'darkness' of aversion and unwillingness.

 

 

Hare Krsna, Catrubahu das Bahkti-Raja

[Guest guest]

Yes, my timeline was a bit off, sorry. I was referring to the era shortly after Ramesvara became a zonal acarya. Cookie tables were popular then, being that bringing in laxmi was high priority. Beggar seems to remember the sequence of events better than me, so I will defer to him.

 

"So unless you were there please too refrain from comment and let us get back to DVD. Please!"

 

Well, I was there, but didn't arrive until '79. I find it really really hard to believe that Gopa prabhu would try to "break your faith" or anyone's faith in Srila Prabhupada. He is a Prabhupada man through and through. But yes, enough of this, let's back on topic and discuss Varnashrama without all the personal attacks and accusations.