Varnashrama Dharma, A Morning Walk Conversation

[Guest guest]

 

Dear Guest of Conviction,

please take your time and read slowly what I wrote.

 

 

Not a chance. You already chose your destiny by your company and every utterance from you reflects that and That is That. Good luck with the pure devotee act. There is a fool born every minute looking to be cheated but just like hunting animals, whether you agree or not, you will have to switch positions by the unerring law of Karma which is not mitigated for the Mayaya Apahrita Jnani's nor the Asurabhabamasrita's who

 

 

BG 7.15 Purport

 

...All the unauthorized interpretations of the Gita by the class of mayayapahrta-jnana, outside the purview of the parampara system, are so many stumbling blocks in the path of spiritual understanding. The deluded interpreters do not surrender unto the lotus feet of Sri Krsna, nor do they teach others to follow this principle....

 

...The last class of duskrtina is called asuram bhavam asrita, or those of demonic principles. This class is openly atheistic....Such persons whose very principle of life is to decry the Personality of Godhead cannot surrender unto the lotus feet of Sri Krsna.

 

Sadly but Surely,

 

ys.

 

The reassured Guest

[anadi]

 

You already chose your destiny by your company and every utterance from you reflects that and That is That. ...

BG 7.15 Purport

...All the unauthorized interpretations of the Gita by the class of mayayapahrta-jnana, outside the purview of the parampara system, are so many stumbling blocks in the path of spiritual understanding. The deluded interpreters do not surrender unto the lotus feet of Sri Krsna, nor do they teach others to follow this principle....

I'm sorry that I made you somehow suffer, that you wrote such things.

Most of the time I have problems by saying the truth, than most of the people don't need any evidence for the truth, they already have thier conviction, and than they may get angry...

I don't say to not follow your Prabhupada, I only pointed out that some of his teachings go against Gaudiya Vaishnava sadhana siddhanta, and if you can accept it for you, it's all right.

 

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I presented the original teachings of Gaudiya Vaishnavism, not those of some mayayapahrta-jnana, or else please prove it.

 

....

 

This is one of my most beloved personalities:

 

 

SRI RAMAKRISHNA DAS PANDIT BABA

 

was born in a brahmana family of Gauda in Samvat 1914 at Bhuratipa Pancagali in Jaipur. His past family name was Ram-pratap Misra (Panda). Ram-pratap lost his father in Samvat 1922. His father was a Ramanandi Vaishnava and his mother hailed from a family initiated into the Vallabhacarya line. His grandfather belonged to the Ramanuja sect of Vaishnavas. The members of the family were teachers by profession and were patronized by the King of Jaipur.

 

As a child of only five or six years Ram-pratap displayed a fascination for devotion. When he was seven or eight years old he went to fetch water daily from a distant spring at Madhavpur for offering worship to Lord Krishna. One day while on his way to the spring, he spotted a tiger eating human flesh. Strangely, he felt no fear and continued on to Madhavpur with the conviction that since the animal had some food then it had no reason to harm him.

 

At the age of nine Rampratap completed his study of Sanskrit grammar at Panini. It is said that at this time Ram-pratap came in contact with Nrsimh-ananda Bhatta at Jaipur, a brahmana from Karnataka who later became a disciple of Siddha Nityananda dasa Baba. Nrsimha-dasa was an erudite scholar of the six branches of Indian philosophy and an accomplished musician. He became deeply absorbed upon seeing a performance on the Gita-govinda and Krishna-karnamrita.

 

After coming in contact with Nrsimha, Ram-pratap was so overwhelmed by his qualities that he began to wonder how magnanimous Nrsimha’s guru must be. Ram-pratap held all Vaishnava saints in great reverence. At a later date he went to Vrindavana and took shelter at the feet of Nrsimha. At that time he also came in contact with Radha-carana Gosvami Kakaji of Govinda Temple and started learning Bengali from Professor Kanticandra Sen.

At the age of ten years Rampratap acquired command of the Urdu language.

At the age of eleven he underwent the sacred thread ceremony.

The priest who initiated him into Savitri mantra instructed Rampratap to repeat the mantra.

 

Thereafter Rampratap received a divine command from Savitri and attempted to run away to Vrindavana on three occasions, but each time he was caught and held by his mother and the royal government. Shortly afterwards, while Ram-pratap was studying the Vedas at the age of thirteen, he finally reached Vrindavana. There he stayed with the Gosvamis of Govindaji Temple and studied Nyaya under Sudarsan Sastri of Rangaji temple, Ragunatha-dasa's six sandarbha under Nilamani Gosvami, Srimad Bhagavatam under Nrsimha dasa, and Hari-bhakti-vilasa under Gopilal Gosvami.

 

At the age of twenty Rampratap completed his studies. Meanwhile, at the command of his mother, he visited his birth place a few times but inevitably ended up in Vrindavana again. After qualifying in his studies, Rampratap took spiritual initiation and Vesa from Nityananda dasa Babaji, receiving the name Rama-krishna Das. After receiving intensive instructions on bhajan Rampratap memorized the entire Govinda-lilamrta.

 

Having acquiring a sound command of smarana-manana (contemplation) Ramakrishna Das Baba was directed by Siddha Baba to approach Krishna-dasa Babaji for further instructions. Afterwards, Nityananda Baba, instructed Rama-krishna Das Baba to go to Varsana to practice bhajan. At Varsana he heard kirtana performed by Gauracarana dasa Babaji and began taking music lessons from him. During that time he neglected his bhajan and spent most of his time learning music. Eventually Siddha Baba called Rama-krishna Das Baba back to Vrindavana and advised him to devote more time to the practice of bhajan.

 

Ramakrishna Das Baba never spoke with his guru directly, but carried on conversations through his elder God-brother, Siromani. As directed by Siddha Baba, Rama-krishna Das Baba went to Varsana but, finding it difficult to concentrate his mind, he repeated the eighteen-lettered Gopala mantra for seventeen days and was finally blessed with the vision of Lord Krishna with Radha beneath a Kadamba tree at Uddhava Kyeri. When he was asked to seek a boon, Ramakrishna Das Baba said, “I do not know what I want; I pray for the grace of Yugalakisora.” He was commanded to practice bhajan in the cave of Raghava. Rama-krishna Das Baba immediately went to the cave, which was infested with wild animals, and for six years practiced intense bhajan without paying any attention to his physical needs.

 

By the grace of Radha-Krishna he had now become siddha in lila-smarana. From 2 o’clock in the morning to 2 o’clock in the afternoon he used to do lila-smarana inside the cave. After that he came out of the cave. At this time there used to be a crowd of sadhus in front of the cave. They sought his advice in bhajana. Baba removed their doubts and difficulties. Then patha and kirtana were performed. This continued till evening. In the evening Baba went out for madhukari. After some time, Baba’s absorption in lila-smarana became so deep that it became impossible for him to follow any routine. No one knew when he would sit down for smarana and when he would come out of the cave. Sometimes he remained lost in smarana for two or three days continuously and did not go out even for madhukari. The sadhus who used to collect In front of his cave were deprived of his company.

 

 

[Gaurhari]

Anadi, Dandavat pranams. Sri Sri Guru Gaurangau Jayatah. I respectfully disagree with your stance. You wrote:

 

 

<?xml:namespace prefix = o /> . . . these purports ... are against Gaudiya bhakti siddhanta.

1. Through vaidhi- (sadhana)-bhakti one cannot attain raganunga-sadhana-bhakti.

2. Vaidhi-(sadhana)-bhakti and raganuga –(sadhana)-bhakti are two different types of sadhana,

Vaiddhi is not the cause of Raga.

The above purports go against that what Rupa Gosvmi wrote in Bhakti Rasamrita Sindhu 1.3.7::

vaidhI-rAgAnugA-mArga-bhedena parikIrtitaH |

dvividhaH khalu bhAvo’tra sAdhanAbhinivezajaH || (brs 1.3.7)

 

“The paths of vaidhi and raganuga are known to be separate from each other. Engagement in these two forms of sadhana (practice ) certainly awakens two distinct varieties of bhava.”

vidhi-bhaktye pArSada-dehe vaikuNThete yAya || (cc 2.24.87)

 

“Through vidhi-bhakti, one will attain the form of an associate in Vaikuntha.”

aizvarya-jJAne vidhi-bhajana kariyA |

vaikuNThake yAya catur-vidha mukti pAJA || (cc 1.3.17)

 

“Those who worship according to scriptural commandments, being aware of the Lord's superhuman prowess,

attain the four kinds of liberation in Vaikuntha.”

rAga-bhaktye vraje svayaM-bhagavAne pAya || (cc 2.24.85)

 

“Through raga-bhakti, one will attainthe original Lord Himself in Vraja.”

rAgAnuga-mArge tAGre bhaje yei jana |

sei-jana pAya vraje vrajendra-nandana || (cc 2.8.221)

 

“He who worships on the path of raganuga will attain Vrajendra-nandana (Sri Krishna) in Vraja.”

sakala jagate more kare vidhi-bhakti |

vidhi-bhaktye vraja-bhAva pAite nAhi zakti ||

aizvarya-jJAnete saba jagat mizrita |

aizvarya-zithila-preme nAhi mora prIta || (cc 1.3.15-16)

 

“Everyone in this world worships Me through vidhi-bhakti. Vidhi-bhakti has no power for attaining the feelings of Vraja. The devotion of the world is mixed with knowledge of My divine prowess. I do not delight in love diluted with prowess.”

 

I do not disagree with the sastric quotations you have provided. However it is wrong conclusion to state that the conclusions of Srila Bhakti Siddhanta Sarasvati Thakur Prabhupada and A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada are not in line with Gaudiya Vaishnava siddhanta. Quite the opposite.

 

There is nothing in these quotations in BRS an CC that indicates that for a neophyte devotee who has not yet attained a natural love for Sri Krishna, vaidhi bhakti is inappropriate. Vaidhi bhakti is certainly appropriate for such a person, because in the beginning, rules and regulations are certainly necessary to cleanse the heart. As neophyte devotees, we theortically understand that our goal is to attain vraja bhakti to Sri Krishna, and to attain this goal, we worship Mahaprabhu and Sri Sri Radha Krishna with rules and regulations, waiting patiently for the time when spontaneous attraction (raga) will appear in our heart after it is cleansed.

 

The following quotes from two prominent Saraswat acharyas are very relevant:

 

From Srila Gaur Govinda Maharaj (from Mathura meets Vrindavan, page 234):

 

"The neophytes must follow all of the sastric rules and regulations of vaidhi-bhakti very strictly. That is the first stage. When the heart becomes purified by strictly following the rules and regulations then the other part of bhakti is raganuga bhakti. We are sadhakas, we are practicing sadhana. Sadhana bhakti has two parts, vaidhi and raganuga. The first part is vaidhi, for the neophytes. Then, when the heart becomes purified the next part comes, raganuga bhakti. Mahaprabhu's teaching is raga-bhakti. We are all gaura-bhaktas, all devotees of Gauranga Mahaprabhu. Mahaprabhu gives krsna prema through chanting the holy names. Attainment of that prema is the purpose of this rarely achieved human birth. This is Mahaprabhu's teaching. And Mahaprabhu is prema-purusottama, who gives krsna-prema. . . " (emphasis added)

 

From Srila Bhakti Ballabh Tirtha Maharaj (present acharya of Sri Chaitanya Gaudiya Math) in his book Suddha Bhakti, pages 43-45):

 

"The different devotional practices, or sadhanas, have been explained in Srimad Bhagavatam. Now there are two general kinds of sadhana according to which according to which we can practice bhakti: vaidhi bhakti and raganuaga bhakti. Vidhi means rule or regulation. For those who have no natural love for Sri Krishna, vaidhi bhakti is appropriate. There are many conditioned souls who have no taste for worshipping Krishna, because they have no feeling of relationship with Him. When one has a relationship with somebody, there is an automatic impetus to serve or love that person. Parents do not need to be taught to love their children. The tendency is there due to their natural relationship. However, very few of us have any feeling of relation with the Supreme Lord, so there are vidhis, rules and regulations. We are told: "He is the Supreme Lord, He is the Creator and Sustainer. It is our duty to worship Him." Most of us have no spontaneous liking for worship, but will practice devotion because it is the injunction of the scriptures. Thus for ordinary aspirations, vaidhi bhakti is applicable.

 

Raganuag speans spontaneous attraction. Those devotees whose attraction to Krishna is inborn are called ragatmika bhaktas. They are the original associates of Lord Krishna. No conditioned sould can become ragatmika. But as conditioned souls we can have a relation with raganuga bhakti. Raganuga bhaktas also have spontaneous love for Krishna, but they have developed it through sadhana. If we can associate with them, then we might automatically develop a spontaneous love for Krishna that is very intense. But such cases are exceptional.

 

At present we worship the deities of Radha and Krishna on the altar according to many rules and regulations, our love being restricted by the injunctions of the scriptures. In fact, however, Radha and Krishna are the only possible objects of spontaneous love. The Vrajavasis, the inhabitants of Krishna's transcendental realm Vrndavana, think that Krishna is subservient to them. And the highest form of spontaneous devotion is found in Krishna's absolute counterpart, Srimati Radharani and her personal associates, the gopis. If we take the mantra from the subordinates of Radharani, the sakhis and manjaris- then this mantra will take us to Radha and Krishna in their mood of service. At present, however, we have just started sadhana and will not have this realization. We are thus eligible to perform vaidhi bhakti, but ultimately, if we go on practicing, then the desire to serve Radha and Krishna intimately will rise automatically from the core of our heart. The raganuga-bhaktas also follow the angas or limbs of vaidhi-bhakti, but with intense love. If we practice sincerely, eventually such intense desire to serve will spontaneously arise from within. We have to be patient, and for now we have to continue practicing according to the guidelines of vaidhi bhakti. . ." (emphasis added)

 

So Anadi prabhu, while I agree with you that ultimately it is raganuga bhakti that brings one to love Krishna withough any feeling of awe and reverence, this does not preclude the practice of worshipping Mahaprabhu and Radha-Krishna conjugal through vaidhi bhakti first for a neophyte whose heart is not yet purified.

 

I beg forgiveness if what I have said here causes you any pain.

 

Nitai Gaur Haribol.

[Guest guest]

Srila Prabhupada saw that in order to build a general support for the spread of Vaishnavism in the West an introduction of a preaching movement based on principles of DVD is needed.

 

That however does not mean that other forms of Vaishnavism will not flourish in the West. We should follow our respective paths in mutual respect and friendship. Anything less than that is not befitting a Vaishnava.

[Guest guest]

Jaya Prabhupada

 

The Lowborn ought to become more informed regarding Vaisnavism before expounding on the reasons for the methods used by a great Acharya to inculcate Vaisnavism.

 

Especially speculating as to the existence of different "forms" of Vaisnavism.

 

Mutual respect is civilized behavior. Impossible without the prinicples of civilized behavior being taught to the ignorant. Those (besides Ragatmika Bhaktas) who live outside the principles of DVD are considered uncivilized, hence, unable to truly respect others.

 

Friendship is an illusion to all but Bhakta's at the madhyama stage where such a transcendental sentiment is first glimpsed and acted upon.

 

 

Isopanishad Ch. 6 :Those who have attained the second stage of realization are called madhyama-adhikärés. These devotees observe the distinctions between four categories of being: (1) the Supreme Lord; (2) the devotees of the Lord; (3) the innocent, who have no knowledge of the Lord; and (4) the atheists, who have no faith in the Lord and hate those in devotional service. The madhyama-adhikäré behaves differently toward these four classes of person. He adores the Lord, considering Him the object of love; he makes friends with those who are in devotional service; he tries to awaken the dormant love of God in the hearts of the innocent; and he avoids the atheists, who deride the very name of the Lord.

 

Prior to reaching this stage, all attempts at "friendship" are materially motivated and false. Intimacy breeds contempt. Better to work on the respect part, keep a healthy distance from others by focusing interpersonal relationships around duty only, and then let transcendental friendship emerge on its own accord.

 

Hare Krsna

[anadi]

 

I do not disagree with the sastric quotations you have provided.

However it is wrong conclusion to state that the conclusions of Srila Bhakti Siddhanta Sarasvati Thakur Prabhupada and A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada are not in line with Gaudiya Vaishnava siddhanta. Quite the opposite.

There is nothing in these quotations in BRS an CC that indicates that for a neophyte devotee who has not yet attained a natural love for Sri Krishna, vaidhi bhakti is inappropriate.

Dear Gaurhari, dandavat pranam,

It is true that for the one that has no greed for vraja bhakti, it is recommended to do vaidhi bhakti. Is better to vaidhi bhakti than no bhakti.

But

The wrong siddhanta is that by doing vaidhi bhakti one automatically gets raganunga bhakti sadhana, and this is evidenced in those shastric quotations.

By doing vadhi bhakti and worshiping for example Lord Nrisimha-deva for millions of lifetimes one cannot reach raganuga bhakti. Vaidhi bhakti is never the cause of raganuga bhakti.

Vaidhi bhakti is one type of sadhana bhakti which awakens one type of bhava and

Raghanuga bhakti is another type of sadhana bhakti.which awakens other types of Bhava.

As previously stated sannyasi Thakur presented in Jaiva Dharma by Bhaktivinoda Thakur never did vaidhi bhakti, but due to his greed to attain the bhava of a gaudiya vaishnava he started serching for gaudiya vaishnavas. And because of this greed, his guru very quickly revealed him his siddha deha – the eternal spiritual body, he should meditate on.

 

kRSNa-bhakti-rasa-bhAvita-matiH |

kriyatAM yadi kuto'pi labhyate ||

tatra laulyam api mUlyam ekalaM |

janma-koTi-sukRtair na labhyate || (Padyavali 14)

 

“Wherever that consciousness laden with Krishna bhakti rasa is available,

from there it must be acquired.

For that there is indeed only one price, greed,

which cannot be attained through pious deeds even in millions of births.”

Through vaidhi bhakti one cannot get this greed for vraja lila bhava, which is the prerequisite for Raganunga Bhakti Sadhana. This can be awakened when one witness the symptoms of that bhava in his own guru or another gaudiya vaishnav, or by continuous hearing (shravanam) and discussing (kirtanam) about vraja lila and the emotions of those playing it.

Haripada das says:

vilaApa kusumAJjali parama sampad

sevAra saGkalpa yoto bodo adabhuta

haripada jAgi tumi brAhma muhUrtete

ei sukha sevAkoro nitya smaraNete

“Vilapa kusumanjali is the greatest tresure, filled with all the different wonderful vows of devine service (for the divine Couple of Vraja). O Haripada! Always get up in Brahma Muhurta hours and remember this blissful devotional service!”

For example Raghunatha dasa says in the 20-th verse of his Vilapa kusumanjali

prakSAlya pAda kamalaM kRta danta kASThAM

snAnArtham anya sadane bhavatIM niviSTAm

abhyajya gandhitatarair iha tailapUraiH

prodvartayiSyati kadA kiM u kiGkarIyam

"When may this maidservant (Tulasi Manjari – the form of Raghunatha dasa in Radha-Krishna lila), after washing Your (Radha’s) lotus feet and brushing your teeth with a twig, seat You in the bathroom and, having anointed You with very fragrant oils, massage You there?"

In the previous verse Sri Raghunatha dasa had a vision of his service of washing Radha’s lotus feet, and in this verse he sees him/ herself rinsing Radha’s mouth, brushing Her teeth with a twig, taking Her into another room and massaging Her with fragrant oil there.

When the sadhaka has such a vision he feels as if the beloved deity takes him by the hand.

The more purified the heart is the more vivid these transcendental experiences are.

It is not that you have to get purified and than you start sadhana bhakti of raganuga type, by sadhana bhakti you also get purified.

By the mercy of Gaura-sundara, beautiful lilas have been revealed by the acaryas, to help the sadhaka in his japa meditation.

There is no greater cause of heart rendering lamentation, than that of being deprived of this treasure, the gaudiya acaryas came to bring in this Gaura-sundara’s age.

[Guest guest]

 

Through vaidhi bhakti one cannot get this greed for vraja lila bhava, which is the prerequisite for Raganunga Bhakti Sadhana. This can be awakened when one witness the symptoms of that bhava in his own guru or another gaudiya vaishnav, or by continuous hearing (shravanam) and discussing (kirtanam) about vraja lila and the emotions of those playing it.

 

Jaya Prabhupada

 

The continuous hearing and discussing about vraja lila and the emotions of the participants is a portion of the instructions given to the disciples of Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.

 

The portion of the later stages of the Vaidhi Bhakti sadhana he authorized included initiating the hearing and discussing of these subjects, and continuing that process. He mentioned in so many places how the true raganuga greed would arise "naturally" for all those already engaged in Vaidhi Bhakti.

 

You can't force destiny, it is due to the ACTUAL inner greed of the jiva as well as the Lord's actual desire for pleasure simultaneously.

 

Your complete ignorance of the abovementioned Acharya's teachings on the matter make you highly unqualified to comment as if you do, and further your philisophical opinions are being shown for what they are. A product of your fertile mind.

 

You then say.

 

 

There is no greater cause of heart rendering lamentation, than that of being deprived of this treasure, the gaudiya acaryas came to bring in this Gaura-sundara’s age.

 

This is true. And your careless and reckless approach to this confidential and most intimate treasure is not a sign of transcendental greed due to understanding its value but reflects a travesty of misplaced material desire, and by disregarding the transcendental processes which pave the way for the MAJORITY of the souls who actually have a glimmer of interest in the subject, you would try to falsely impress them into some mental concoction of what you believe to be the most inimate practices.

 

Guru can reveal one's siddha deha by the physical presence, or by chaitya guru in the heart. You are wasting your time. There are countless disciples of Srila BhaktiVedanta Swami Prabhupada who are apparently engaged still in Vaidhi Bhakti in the Sankirtana movement and in his temples but who are daily longing in their minds for the days they may serve their most cherished role model in Vraja. Their separation increases their hankering, it is perfect raganuga bhakti.

 

Meanwhile you sit there reading about it, and telling people that Vaidhi Bhakti is an impediment.

 

It is not too late you know.

 

Bhagavad Gita 1972 Macmillan edition. Unabridged and the original words of an empowered shaktavesha Acharya. Then his Bhagavatam, supplemented with the Nectar of Devotion and Graduating to CC, Then your raganuga will blossom no problemo okey dokey?

 

Hari Bolo

[anadi]

Guest of vaidhI said:

 

The continuous hearing and discussing about vraja lila and the emotions of the participants is a portion of the instructions given to the disciples of Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.

Can you please give some quotation as evidence that this is true?

By the mercy of Gaura-sundara, beautiful lilas of the divine Couple have been revealed by the acaryas, to help the sadhaka in his/her japa meditation.<O:P></O:P

Where does Bhaktivedanta Swami speak, one should study their books, (like Radha Rasa Sudhanidhi or Vilapa Kusumanjali?)

As I started to read “non Prabhupada books” and speak about them I was stamped as reading “non bona fide” literature. The same happened/ happens in Iskcon II (Bhakti-Trust) of BV Narayan M.

[bhaktatraveler]

 

Guest of vaidhI said:

Can you please give some quotation as evidence that this is true?

By the mercy of Gaura-sundara, beautiful lilas of the divine Couple have been revealed by the acaryas, to help the sadhaka in his/her japa meditation.<O:P></O:P

Where does Bhaktivedanta Swami speak, one should study their books, (like Radha Rasa Sudhanidhi or Vilapa Kusumanjali?)

As I started to read “non Prabhupada books” and speak about them I was stamped as reading “non bona fide” literature. The same happened/ happens in Iskcon II (Bhakti-Trust) of BV Narayan M.

 

 

Who translated the Vilapa Kusumanjali you are reading? I have a zerox copied manuscript from Ananta das Babaji that I got in Radha Kunda in 97'. If you are reading this then you are compleatly off topic here and miss posting. This thread is not of that mood and you should know better if you are reading such exalted literature. Constantly argueing apples and oranges. Vidhi and Raganuga. And that you are still doing this shows you should stop reading those lituratures. Your posts are the prof of a very elimental neophyte that is above his head, just treading water. Like the rest of us.

 

If you were qualified to read as you say, you would not continue to post these fictitious aguements and would understand the purpose of DVD. Stop reading these books, your not ready yet or you would not react the way you do to this thread.

 

What is my prof of statements made? Been there, done that, recognize it. No srcipture, this is in my heart. Say its black, I do not care. Stop reading the Vipapa Ksumanjali, your not ready. And neither am I, thats how I recognize you. It only took me a month, you are stuck in an endless loop. Because you are not qualified to enter into the intimate pastimes of Radha and Krsna. It takes one to know one. I'm your huckleberry.

 

Your frying.

 

Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das

[Guest guest]

Is Raganuga bhakti limited to only aspiring to follow the residents of Vraj??

 

Is it not true that the beginning of the upwelling of Raganuga Bhakti is the

attraction to hearing of the pastimes of any of Lord Krsna's associates, regardless of where they live and what part of his multitude of lilas they participate in, and soon after the attraction to follow in their footsteps and serve Lord Krsna in that way?

 

And wouldn't it be elementary that Srila Prabhupada would only comment initmately regarding the residents of Vraja as far as can be done in the context of the Srimad Bhagavatam, and CC, because these were the essential literatures for him to get out there, and that the one who was controlling him KNEW and made arrangements that the more confidential pasttimes would be published by others and floating around the earth, thus available IF AND WHEN one of Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami's disciples was at that stage of legitimate need due to greed for more than what was given already?

 

The tendency for beginners for shooting straight to the top of the top of the most confidential and intimate dealings of the Supreme Lord while bypassing preliminary necessities is tragic, dangerous, and sickening.

 

And since such offenders are ultimately unsatisfied because they are unqualified to get the benefit of such reading and imagining, their misery increases, and all they can do is try to hijack other peoples gradual process and entice them into their world of pain with false claims of sharing with them the "highest Bhakti", for as we know, misery loves company.

 

Shame Shame Shame.

 

Jaya Prabhupada

[anadi]

Dear caturbahu das, dandavat pranam,

you said

 

 

Who translated the Vilapa Kusumanjali you are reading? I have a zerox copied manuscript from Ananta das Babaji that I got in Radha Kunda in 97'. If you are reading this then you are compleatly off topic here and miss posting.

Your commentary allegedly answer these questions:

 

Quote:

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The continuous hearing and discussing about vraja lila and the emotions of the participants is aportion of the instructions given to the disciples of Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.

 

 

 

 

 

</td></tr></tbody></table>

Can you please give some quotation as evidence that this is true?

By the mercy of Gaura-sundara, beautiful lilas of the divine Couple have been revealed by the acaryas, to help the sadhaka in his/her japa meditation.

Where does Bhaktivedanta Swami speak, one should study their books, (like Radha Rasa Sudhanidhi or Vilapa Kusumanjali?)

As I started to read “non Prabhupada books” and speak about them I was stamped as reading “non bona fide” literature. The same happened/ happens in Iskcon II (Bhakti-Trust) of BV Narayan M.

But you gave no answer, because these statements

"The continuous hearing and discussing about vraja lila and the emotions of the participants is aportion of the instructions given to the disciples of Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada."

are not true.

Instead of it you say I am not qualified to read Vilapa Kusumanjali.

Your argument:

This thread is not of that mood and you should know better if you are reading such exalted literature.

This a wrong argument. If I read about the pastimes of the divine Couple it doesn’t mean I don’t understand that endeavors for DVD is an invention that is against the teachings of Mahaprabhu and the traditional Gaudiya Vaishnava acaryas, (up to the father of invention).

You added:

Constantly argueing apples and oranges. Vidhi and Raganuga. And that you are still doing this shows you should stop reading those lituratures.

Reply:

The issue regarding Vidhi and Raganuga is another Iskcon misunderstanding, see the post #372, #375 and #381

You wrote

If you were qualified to read as you say, you would not continue to post these fictitious aguements

Can you please give some examples, so that we can examine them?

You wrote

Stop reading these books, your not ready yet or you would not react the way you do to this thread.

Can you give some examples please?

You wrote

What is my prof of statements made? Been there, done that, recognize it. No srcipture, this is in my heart. Say its black, I do not care.

Your proof is lacking the basis of all evidence.

 

You wrote

Stop reading the Vipapa Ksumanjali, your not ready. And neither am I, thats how I recognize you. It only took me a month, you are stuck in an endless loop. Because you are not qualified to enter into the intimate pastimes of Radha and Krsna. It takes one to know one. I'm your huckleberry.

Reading Vilapa Kusumanjali is an endless joy. You cannot forbid me, I am too attached to read the sweet revelations of Raghunatha das, and the wonderful commentaries of Pandit Ananta dasa Baba-ji...

[anadi]

 

Is Raganuga bhakti limited to only aspiring to follow the residents of Vraj??

 

Is it not true that the beginning of the upwelling of Raganuga Bhakti is the

attraction to hearing of the pastimes of any of Lord Krsna's associates, regardless of where they live and what part of his multitude of lilas they participate in, and soon after the attraction to follow in their footsteps and serve Lord Krsna in that way?

And wouldn't it be elementary that Srila Prabhupada would only comment initmately regarding the residents of Vraja as far as can be done in the context of the Srimad Bhagavatam, and CC, because these were the essential literatures for him to get out there, and that the one who was controlling him KNEW and made arrangements that the more confidential pasttimes would be published by others and floating around the earth, thus available IF AND WHEN one of Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami's disciples was at that stage of legitimate need due to greed for more than what was given already?

The tendency for beginners for shooting straight to the top of the top of the most confidential and intimate dealings of the Supreme Lord while bypassing preliminary necessities is tragic, dangerous, and sickening.

And since such offenders are ultimately unsatisfied because they are unqualified to get the benefit of such reading and imagining, their misery increases, and all they can do is try to hijack other peoples gradual process and entice them into their world of pain with false claims of sharing with them the "highest Bhakti", for as we know, misery loves company.

Shame Shame Shame.

Jaya Prabhupada

Dear Guest of… Jaya Prabhupada

You don’t know siddhanta. Go and learn siddhanta.

The type of love, the residents of the intimate spiritual realms (Vrindavan) of the All Attractive, have for Him, is called raga-atmika, because is imbibed with an extraordinary sense of possession (mamata) for Him, thinking: Krishna is mine, and therefore their love is called raga-atmika, imbibed up to saturation with attachment for Him.

This and the raganuga bhakti has been defined by Rupa Gosvami:

 

virAjantIm abhivyaktaM vrajavAsi-janAdiSu |

rAgAtmikAm anusRtA yA sA rAgAnugocyate || (brs 1.2.270)

 

“The devotion which is clearly present in the associates of the Lord in Vraja is called devotion filled with extraordinary loving attachment (ragatmika-bhakti),

and devotion following in the wake of this ragatmika-bhakti is called raganuga-bhakti.”

Your post is only speculations.

[bhaktatraveler]

If you are so ingrossed in the Vipapa Kusumanjali then why would you waste your time in this folly of internet politic's? Just being here involved in endless ranglings is a sure sign that all you say you are receiveing from your studies is absent.

 

The other thing that goes ill together is Ananta das and Srila Prabhupada. Two diametricly opposed preachers delivering a different message. Though I know of no personal comments from Srila Prabhupada on The Babaji, I have heard from Ananta das on the subject of Srila Prabhupada, and it wasn't flatering, to say the least.

 

No, of course I can't make you do anything, if you wish to read these scriptures you will do so. But when attempting to enter a forbiden place care must be taken on your part to leave at the door all other moods of service.

 

Your time here is telling of a person that still maybe has to much attachment to the material world(internet) or why do you not have your head in these scriptures now? Rasa Basa. Your not ready.

 

I'm not going to answer your post any more than this.

 

Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das

[Guest guest]

Anadi, you do nothing but boast about high subjects you dont even understand. Do you think it is very difficult to order Ananta Baba's books and then start to quote some passages all over internet forums to prove how special you are? First of all, these books are for initiated sadhakas. You have not received diksha in any of the traditional parivars, nor have you received siddha-pranali. I wonder if you ever met Ananta Baba (or any other traditional GV guru for that matter). I guess you did not. All you do is spend long hours every day on the internet, trying to advertise yourself as a big rasik devotee. As others said before, if you had anything to do with raganuga, you would nicely turn off your computer and instead of wasting your time you would chant 64 rounds daily (most traditional GV guru agree that you have to chant this much if you want to engaga and absorb in lila smaranam). But before lila smaranam begins, you have to have diksha into one of the traditional parivars. Then, after some time you may receive siddhapranali, thats the beginning of lila smaranam. You do not have any. So please, for your own sake, stop this meaningless debating and boasting, and if you are really interested in raganuga, find a sat-guru, take diksha and start your bhajan. You are misrepresenting traditional GV, because people here may think that you are one of them while you are not. Nobody authorized you to preach, except for your own mind.

[anadi]

Dear Caturbahu dasa dandavat pranam,

Strange that instead of speaking about bhakti or hari katha we speak about me.

The matter of fact it is not strange. This is a ... political maneuver: if you can't handle the subject, that you go on with personal “attacks”.

You wrote:

If you are so ingrossed in the Vipapa Kusumanjali then why would you waste your time in this folly of internet politic's? Just being here involved in endless ranglings is a sure sign that all you say you are receiveing from your studies is absent.

I don’t speak politics, I speak siddhanta.

 

The other thing that goes ill together is Ananta das and Srila Prabhupada. Two diametricly opposed preachers delivering a different message. Though I know of no personal comments from Srila Prabhupada on The Babaji, I have heard from Ananta das on the subject of Srila Prabhupada, and it wasn't flatering, to say the least.

This sounds like politics.

Better we should speak concrete and analyze the differences between what they say in the light of Gaudiya Vaishnava siddhanta.

 

 

… if you wish to read these scriptures you will do so. But when attempting to enter a forbiden place care must be taken on your part to leave at the door all other moods of service.

Shastra states clearly for whom it is forbidden.

kintu rahasya-lIlA tu pauruSa-vikAravad indriyaiH pitR-putra-dAsa-bhAvaiz ca nopAsyA svIya-bhAva-virodhAt |

rahasyatvaM ca tasyAH kvacid alpAMzena kvacit tu sarvAMzeneti jJeyam || (Bhakti-sandarbha 338)

 

“… these secret sports are not to be worshiped by those who experience male transformations in their senses, or by those who are in the moods of father, son and servant, for it would be contrary to their moods. Confidentiality is understood according to the partial or complete touching of limbs.”

Any bhakta who desires to absorb himself in narrations of the Lord must himself assess his own eligibility and aspire to hear narrations in accordance with his capacity. However, such confidential topics should never be narrated to antagonistic individuals who are likely to disrespect the supremely sacred human-like sports of the Lord.

Speaking about the lila of the Lord has the same status as speaking of the glories of the Name of the Lord:

azraddadhAne vimukhe ’py azRNvati yaz copadezaH ziva nAmAparAdhaH || (Padma-purana, Brahma-khanda 25.15-18 )

 

”One who describes the auspiciousness of the Name unto those who are faithless, opposed and unwilling to hear, is an offender against the Holy Name.”

but in the Srimad Bhagavatam it is stated:

vikrIDitaM vraja-vadhUbhir idaM ca viSNoH |

zraddhAnvito yaH zRNuyAd atha varNayed vA ||

bhaktiM parAM bhagavati parilabhya kAmaM |

hRd-rogam Azv apahinoty acireNa dhIraH || (bhag. 10.33.39)

 

“One who faithfully hears or describes the loving sports of Sri Krishna and the young maidens of Vraja

will quickly drive away the heart-disease of lust, become sober, and attain the highest devotion of the Lord.”

 

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[bhaktatraveler]

I really do not care to have any deaper conversation with you, I have seen as you speak with others, it will go no where. This thread is about DVD, not you or me.

 

And concidering the school of thought you are coming from why would you be interested one way or another except to be a pain in the bead bag of those devotees outside of the Babaji's school.

 

Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das Bhakti Raja

[Guest guest]

 

Dear Guest of… Jaya Prabhupada

You don’t know siddhanta. Go and learn siddhanta.

The type of love, the residents of the intimate spiritual realms (Vrindavan) of the All Attractive, have for Him, is called raga-atmika, because is imbibed with an extraordinary sense of possession (mamata) for Him, thinking: Krishna is mine, and therefore their love is called raga-atmika, imbibed up to saturation with attachment for Him.

This and the raganuga bhakti has been defined by Rupa Gosvami:

 

virAjantIm abhivyaktaM vrajavAsi-janAdiSu |

rAgAtmikAm anusRtA yA sA rAgAnugocyate || (brs 1.2.270)

 

“The devotion which is clearly present in the associates of the Lord in Vraja is called devotion filled with extraordinary loving attachment (ragatmika-bhakti),

and devotion following in the wake of this ragatmika-bhakti is called raganuga-bhakti.”

Your post is only speculations.

 

Jaya Prabhupada

 

Talk about divine gifts. I actually learned something from Anadi. Raganuga bhakti is exclusively limited to following the footsteps of the residents of Vraja. I guess there is too much awe and reverence in dwarka.

 

But, as far as the nonsense about Vaidhi Bhakti, let us put this to rest once and for all.

 

A great Acharya tells of the awakening of a disciple to the path of spontaneous devotional service and its relationship to Vaidhi Bhakti, mostly relying on the same Bhakti Rasamrita Sindhu that you quote so much for his support.

 

The difference between him telling us of the ways and means to becoming attracted to those persons already attached to loving service, and your compilations is simply that he had already realized everything spoken of, and more, and you are reading about these things for the first time, haven't engaged in the preliminatry instructions to prepare you for reading these topics, and thus have the illusion you already realize what you are reading.

 

Watch, let Srila Prabhupada show you.

 

 

CC Madhya 149

TRANSLATION

"The original inhabitants of Vrndavana are attached to Krsna spontaneously in devotional service. Nothing can compare to such spontaneous devotional service, which is called ragatmika bhakti. When a devotee follows in the footsteps of the devotees of Vrndavana, his devotional service is called raganuga bhakti.

 

 

CC Madhya 150

TRANSLATION

" 'When one becomes attached to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, his natural inclination to love is fully absorbed in thoughts of the Lord. That is called transcendental attachment, and devotional service according to that attachment is called ragatmika, or spontaneous devotional service.'

PURPORT

This verse is found in the Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu (1.2.272).

 

..(Remember one is not attached to Krsna when first found by Guru, and thus begins working toward this attachment by means of Vaidhi Bhakti sadhana.)

 

 

CC Madhya 151

TRANSLATION

"The primary characteristic of spontaneous love is deep attachment for the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Absorption in Him is a marginal characteristic.

 

 

CC Madhya 152

TRANSLATION

"Thus devotional service which consists of raga [deep attachment] is called ragatmika, spontaneous loving service. If a devotee covets such a position, he is considered to be most fortunate.

 

..(Coveting the attachment comes before the attachment itself)

 

 

CC Madhya 22.155

TRANSLATION

" 'When an advanced realized devotee hears about the affairs of the devotees of Vrndavana-in the mellows of santa, dasya, sakhya, vatsalya and madhurya-he becomes inclined in that way, and his intelligence becomes attracted. Indeed, he begins to covet that particular type of devotion. When such covetousness is awakened, one's intelligence no longer depends on the instruction of sastra, revealed scripture, logic or argument.'

PURPORT

This verse is found in the Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu (1.2.292).

 

.. (First he hears about the affairs. Where? Srimad Bhagavatam 10th Canto, and then the Caitanya Caritamrita, both written by Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.)

 

..(Then intelligence becomes attracted)

 

.. (Then he begins to covet)

 

.. (then and only then do rules and regs no longer apply)

 

 

CC Madhya 22.158

TRANSLATION

"The advanced devotee who is inclined to spontaneous loving service should follow the activities of a particular associate of Krsna in Vrndavana.. He should execute service externally as a regulative devotee as well as internally from his self-realized position. Thus he should perform devotional service both externally and internally.'

PURPORT

This verse is found in the Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu (1.2.295).

 

And here we see that the qualification of a person for raganuga is that they are an advanced devotee, who has advanced from the beginning stage, Neophyte in Vaidhi Bhakti Sadhana, through hearing stage, then intelligence becoming attracted (buddhi yoga), and then when advanced, the inclination is to covet attachment to what one is attracted to. At that point a person adopts the path of spontaneous loving service, which begins with following in the footsteps of a resident of Vrndaban (Vraja) who already engages in deeply attached (Ragatmika) devotional service. In other words the beginning of Raganuga Sadhana Bhakti.

 

And still they are to act according to the regs of Vaidhi Bhakti Sadhana. How the heck can a person do that if they never practiced Vaidhi Bhakti to begin with? That some can say otherwise boggles the mind./b]

CC Madhya 22.156-157

TRANSLATION

"There are two processes by which one may execute this raganuga bhakti-external and internal. When self-realized, the advanced devotee externally remains like a neophyte and executes all the sastric injunctions, especially hearing and chanting. However, within his mind, in his original purified self-realized position, he serves Krsna in Vrndavana in his particular way. He serves Krsna twenty-four hours, all day and night.

..(So we don’t forget, there is still mostly the outer apperance of following sastric injunctions (rules and regs), even in spontaneous love.)

CC Madhya 22.153

TRANSLATION

"If one follows in the footsteps of the inhabitants of Vrndavana out of such transcendental covetousness, he does not care for the injunctions or reasonings of sastra. That is the way of spontaneous love.

PURPORT

Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura says that a devotee is attracted by the service of the inhabitants of Vrndavana-namely the cowherd men, Maharaja Nanda, mother Yasoda, Radharani, the gopis, and the cows and calves. An advanced devotee is attracted by the service rendered by an eternal servitor of the Lord. This attraction is called spontaneous attraction. Technically it is called svarupa-upalabdhi. This stage is not achieved in the beginning. In the beginning one has to render service strictly according to the regulative principles set forth by the revealed scriptures and spiritual master. By continuously rendering service through the process of vaidhi bhakti, one's natural inclination is gradually awakened. That is called spontaneous attraction, or raganuga bhakti.

An advanced devotee situated on the platform of spontaneity is already very expert in sastric instruction, logic and argument.

 

It follows that those constantly defeated by logic and argument are not advanced devotees, but those simply posing to be such.

 

Hari Bol

[brajeshwara das]

Just to be clear and accurate:

 

 

Srimad Bhagavatam 10th Canto, and then the Caitanya Caritamrita, both written by Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.

 

Translated with purports. Veda Vyasa and Krishnadas Kaviraja Goswami are the authors respectively.

[anadi]

Quote:

<u1:p></u1:p> <table class="MsoNormalTable" style="width: 100%;" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr style=""> <td style="border: 1pt solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding: 4.5pt 18pt; background: rgb(224, 224, 224) none repeat scroll 0% 50%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial;"> Originally Posted by anadi

<u1:p></u1:p>

<u1:p></u1:p>Dear Guest of… Jaya Prabhupada

<u1:p></u1:p>

<u1:p></u1:p>You don’t know siddhanta. Go and learn siddhanta.

<u1:p></u1:p>

<u1:p></u1:p>The type of love, the residents of the intimate spiritual realms (Vrindavan) of the All Attractive, have for Him, is called raga-atmika, because is imbibed with an extraordinary sense of possession (mamata) for Him, thinking: <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> is mine, and therefore their love is called raga-atmika, imbibed up to saturation with attachment for Him.

<u1:p></u1:p>This and the raganuga bhakti has been defined by Rupa Gosvami:

virAjantIm abhivyaktaM vrajavAsi-janAdiSu |

rAgAtmikAm anusRtA yA sA rAgAnugocyate || (brs 1.2.270)

“The devotion which is clearly present in the associates of the Lord in Vraja is called devotion filled with extraordinary loving attachment (ragatmika-bhakti),

and devotion following in the wake of this ragatmika-bhakti is called raganuga-bhakti.”

<u1:p></u1:p>

<u1:p></u1:p>Your post is only speculations.

</td> </tr> </tbody></table>

Reply

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Jaya Prabhupada

 

Talk about divine gifts. I actually learned something from Anadi. Raganuga bhakti is exclusively limited to following the footsteps of the residents of Vraja. I guess there is too much awe and reverence in dwarka.

Dear guest of ... jaya prabhupada

Your are not prepared to learn from anadi, you are too offensive to anadi, so that you can learn something from him. You were only forced to accept this siddhanta because you found in the folio that “Prabhupada” translated similar verses in CC Madhya lila.

[anadi]

Guest of ... jaya prabhupada wrote

 

 

But, as far as the nonsense about Vaidhi Bhakti, let us put this to rest once and for all.

 

Dear guest of ... jaya prabhupada

What nonsense about Vaidhi bhakti? Can you please be more explicite? ...

You don’t know siddhanta.

[anadi]

Guest of ... jaya prabhupada wrote:

A great Acharya tells of the awakening of a disciple to the path of spontaneous devotional service and its relationship to Vaidhi Bhakti, mostly relying on the same Bhakti Rasamrita Sindhu that you quote so much for his support.

Dear Guest of ... jaya prabhupada

 

A great acarya .. Krishna Kavi-raja das...

CC Madhya 149-152 quotation given by you doesn’t show how the awakening of a disciple on the path of raganuga takes place, they only confirm the definition of Raganunga Bhakti presented already; you just copied something concerning raganunga from the folio.

CC Madhya 22.155 says that by hearing about Vraja lila one can attain some greed to attain such a bhava as the eternal inhabitans of Vrindavan.

The same thing was already posted. See the post #375

 

According that what you worship/remember/meditate on, you will get the result.<u1:p>

 

<u1:p>In this connection Srila Raghunatha das referring to the kamanuga type of raganuga sadhana bhakti says in the 11-th verse of his Manah-shiksha:<u1:p>

 

<u1:p>samaM zri-rUpeNa smara vivza rAdhA giribhRtor

<u1:p>vraja sAkSAt sevAlabhana vidhaye tad gaNa yujoH

<u1:p>tad ijyAkhyA dhyAna zravaNa nati paJcAmRtam idaM

<u1:p>dhayan nItyA govardhanam anudinaM tvaM bhaja manaH

<u1:p>

<u1:p>O mind manaH for the method vidhaye of obtaining labhana direct service sAkSAt sevA to Radha-Krishna rAdhA giribhRtoH who are absorbed in amorous desires smara vivaza with Their (loving) associates in Vraja tad gaNa yujoH vraje as Rupa Gosvami taught zri rUpena samam drink dhayan this nectar consisting of five ingredients idam paJcAmRta <u1:p>

worship Them tad ijya

<u1:p>describe Their pastimes and qualities akhyA <u1:p>

meditate on Them dhyAna <u1:p>

hear about Their pastimes and qualities zravaNa and <u1:p>

bow to Them nati. <u1:p>

(Also) one should worship bhaja always nItyA constantly anudinaM Govardhan govardhanam.

</u1:p></u1:p></u1:p></u1:p></u1:p></u1:p></u1:p></u1:p></u1:p></u1:p></u1:p></u1:p></u1:p></u1:p></u1:p>

[anadi]

Guest of ... jaya prabhupada wrote:

 

 

(First he hears about the affairs. Where? Srimad Bhagavatam 10th Canto, and then the Caitanya Caritamrita, both written by Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.)

Reply:

Caitanya Caritamrita doesn’t describe Vraja lila and the Srimad Bhagavatam 10th Canto has only few insights.

They are not yet written by Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, maybe later…if Iskcon will officially declare so.

There is an abundance of Raganuga literature dealing with Vraja-lila.

 

Guest of ... jaya prabhupada wrote:

...you are reading about these things for the first time, haven't engaged in the preliminatry instructions to prepare you for reading these topics, and thus have the illusion you already realize what you are reading.

Reply:

1. I read already

Raga Vartma Candrika

Manjari Svarupa Nirupana

Sri Vidagda Madhava Natakam

Mukta Carita

Radha Rasa Sudha Nidhi

Vilapa Kusumanjali

Utkalika Valari

Sri Krishna Karnamrita

Sri Sri Dana Keli Cintamani

Prema Samputika

I chant for a long time 42 rounds daily, and I hope I will have that wish to enhance the number and the concentration in the future.

2. To present siddhanta about the definition of Bhakti and the types of Bhakti as given by Rupa, Sanatana, Jiva, Raghunatha, doesn’t mean I am in the illusion, I realized Radha-Krishna-lila.

3. And I personally had darshan with Pandit Ananta Dasa Babaji the Mahant of Radha-Kunda two times.

Additional answer is already in the post #390

 

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[Beggar]

 

Caitanya Caritamrita doesn’t describe Vraja lila and the Srimad Bhagavatam 10th Canto has only few insights.

Why undermine your position by making false statements such as above. Have you actually read Caitanya Caritamrita?

[bija]

 

Caitanya Caritamrita doesn’t describe Vraja lila...quote by anadi

Yes it does, very much so.

 

Shri Chaitanya Charitamrita Adi 7.11:

krishna-madhuryera eka adbhuta svabhava

apana asvadite krishna kare bhakta-bhava

Krsna-madhuyera – the supreme pleasure potency of Krsna; eka – is one; adbhuta – wonderful; svabhava – nature; apana – Himself; asvadite – to taste; krsna – the Supreme Personality of Godhead; kare – does; bhakta-bhava – accept the form of a devotee.

 

Translation by Shrila Prabhupada:

The transcendental mellow of conjugal love of <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> is so wonderful that Krishna Himself accepts the form of a devotee to relish and taste it fully.

 

PURPORT

Although Krishna is the reservoir of all pleasure, He has a special intention to taste Himself by accepting the form of a devotee. It is to be concluded that although Lord Caitanya is present in the form of a devotee, He is Krishna Himself. Therefore Vaishnavas sing, sri-krishna-caitanya radha-krishna nahe anya: “Radha and <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> combined together are Sri Krishna Caitanya Mahaprabhu.” And as Sri Svarupa Damodara Gosvami has said, caitanyakhyam prakatam adhuna tad-dvayam caikyam aptam: Radha and <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> assumed oneness in the form of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu...end quote.

 

I am hesitant to discuss such topics on the internet forum because of the personal nature and special intimacy of Radha and Krsna. I wish not to make offense. Also, the tattva of Lord Gauranga is so unlimited that I am only able to touch upon a fraction of His truth.

 

I feel that by reading Caitanya-caritamrta I have touched a tiny fraction of the deep beauty of the name of ‘Gauranga’. Of the deep intimate union of Radha and Krsna. In a way so consummate. A love so deep that Krsna wishes to know the depth of Radha’s love for Himself. A profound reciprocation of love divine. This name of ‘Gauranga’ is not some simple access or stepping stone, but is complete. A love so profound.

 

‘And as Sri Svarupa Damodara Gosvami has said, caitanyakhyam prakatam adhuna tad-dvayam caikyam aptam: Radha and <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> assumed oneness in the form of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu.’...end quote.

 

How intimate a service is such of these divine servitors such as Sri Svarupa Damodara Goswami and Sri Ramananda Raya. To increase Mahaprabhu’s divine sentiments and prema. To increase Mahaprabhu’s anticipation. In fact Sri Krsna desiring to know the depth of Sri Radha’s love for Himself. In anticipation of meeting. Sri Gauranga is a consummate incarnation: 'Radha and <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> assumed oneness in the form of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu.'

What does it mean to chant the name of Gauranga? What does it mean to serve Mahaprabhu? I fall at the Lotus Feet of such servitors as Sri Svarupa Damodara Goswami and Sri Ramanada Raya. I realised…it is surely not about me. Everything must be for Krsna’s pleasure.

 

The name of Gauranga is not some stepping stone, but is the highest pinnacle. The name of Gauranga is non-different to the names of Sri Sri Radha-Krsna.

How is it that the name of Gauranga does not consider offences? How is it that this name has been given to the most fallen? The depth of this mercy (and the desires of the Lord to distribute this love of God) is beyond words.

 

Sri Ramananda Raya having the highest conceptions of Sri Radha and Sri Krsna was able to see them everywhere.

Teachings of Lord Caitanya (chapter 32 pg. 345)

Ramananda Raya replied, “I request that you not try to hide yourself. I understand that You have accepted the complexion and mode of thinking of Srimati Radharani and that You are trying to understand yourself from the viewpoint of Radharani. You have actually advented yourself to take this point of view. Although you incarnate mainly to understand yourself, You are at the same time distributing love of Krsna to the world. Now you have personally come here to deliver me. Please don’t try to deceive me, I beg you. It is not good for you.”

Being very satisfied, Lord Caitanya, smiled and showed Ramananda Raya His real form as the combination of Sri Radha and Krsna. Thus Lord Caitanya was Sri Krsna himself with the external features of Radharani. His transcendental ability to become two and then to become one again was revealed to Ramananda Raya. Those who are fortunate enough to understand Lord Caitanya as well as the Vrindavan pastimes of Radha and Krsna can be able, by the mercy of Sri Rupa Goswami, to know about the real identity of Sri Krsna Caitanya Mahaprabhu….end quote.

So surely all truths of Sri Sri Radha Krsna are found in Gaura lila. By meditation upon Sri Gauranga all truths of Sri Sri Radha Krsna lila will be revealed in the heart spontaneously. This is constantly stressed by Gaudiya Acarya’s. Srila Prabhupada and other great teachers in line of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Prabhupada, recommend for the beginner in devotional life, to take full and regular shelter of Gaura lila. This is the safe and sure way to enter higher topics and pastimes. There is no consideration of offences there. So this is the safe process.

 

Personally (I can only speak for myself here) I have no right or claim to prematurely try and force my way into Radha-Krsna lila. But feel called to dive into the mercy offered by Sri Krsna Caitanya Mahaprabhu. All things will be revealed in correct time, and by taking shelter of His mercy, offences will be removed from the heart. So at some point being free from offences (by His mercy) the pastimes of Sri Sri Radha-Krsna will manifest in the heart spontaneously.

 

It is my conviction that internal realization of Sri Sri Radha-Krsna (and the Maha-mantra) will only manifest when the heart is free of offences. So what better way to approach such topics than through books such as Caitanya-caritamrta etc. By the Lord's mercy all higher topics may be realized at some point within a book such as this.

 

Anadi, I can see your point why you say that Vraja lila is not described in Caitanya-caritamrta.Yes surely by a superficial reading of the book your point is justified. But when we will be graced by deep internal realization, I am sure all is there within it. Sri Gaura lila and Sri Sri Radha Krsna lila are non-different by Gaudiya understanding.

 

 

Dear Anadi Prabhu, I wish you all blessing in your nice chanting of the Maha-mantra, and your search for Sri Krsna. I would not dare to judge your station and devotion of heart. Please accept my simple obiesances.

[Guest guest]

 

Why undermine your position by making false statements such as above. Have you actually read Caitanya Caritamrita?

 

His position was so foundationally flawed that even the true statements he made, in context of the position he was taking, were false in the sense of how they were applied. Thus undermined by his own undoing, it was only a matter of time before some sensational blunder occured like that one.

 

That is why he did it. He had to and had no other choice.

 

and the poor soul probably has not had the opportunity to read Srila Prabhupada's purports to the CC, or at least to read them submissively. But it is never too late.

 

Hari Bol