Regulative Principles Mandatory?

[bhaktatraveler]

 

Those instructions are Iskcon specific. If Iskcon can do it then more power to them. But such strict assigned social status is not for the society at large and no other matha can be expected to follow those instructions if their acarya prescribes otherwise.

 

Poor boy, so negative, expert rejection. Now, if you could only harness and change that rejection/aversion into a 'can do' spirit and then post! What difference it would make. Devotees are reading. Take the instruction, then carry it out. Use all that hate and negative refuseal turned to Rhino hunting, instituting DVD. Poor boy, you need leadership.

 

 

Say something negative, then back it up with verse/quote from Srila Prabhupada, that categorically refutes what has been pressented or please do not be so disturbing.

 

Or say nothing at all.

 

Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das Bhakti-raja

[theist]

Oh you are offering to be my leader? Oh thank you! You fill me with such inspiration as you are obviously so loving and positive. My obeisances unto you oh king of bhakti.

[Beggar]

Now as seen on T.V.

Organize yourself, your family and your community into Daiva Varasrama Dharma or DVD!

I thought I was a Brahmana but my friends at the Alchoholics Anonymous Meeting convinced me that I'm a Sudra!

I like to make money and chant, am I a Vaishya?

I'm a single mom, looking for a Ksatriya to sweep me off my feet!

All this and more! And all your Questions Answered for only $199.99 for your Do it Yourself DVD Kit.

Who needs a current Acarya! Forget Diksa, you'll just fall down anyway.

Hurry while supplies last!

 

 

[bhaktatraveler]

 

Oh you are offering to be my leader? Oh thank you! You fill me with such inspiration as you are obviously so loving and positive. My obeisances unto you oh king of bhakti.

 

No, no offer from me. I have all the aversion I need in my life right now, thank you I'm mostly asking for quotes from Srila Prabhupada that support rejection of DVD. And the negative mood of your posts against DVD.

 

Me? nooooooo..........not you at this point! Change and come back in a more willing spirit, then we will see. And test, equally.

 

Have to go out for couple hrs, be back after artik.

 

CB-r

[brajeshwara das]

 

Point well taken. Could you tell me who Srila B. R. Sridhar Maharaja took siksha from on a daily bases, if any. Did He have a living Guru? If not why?Who Does Srila Govinda Maharaja take 'living siksha from? And who is there siksha and so on and so on..........is there ever a time where the devotee stands alone with Guru that has left. Does Srila Govinda Maharaja have communion with His Guru or does he always go through someone 'living'? Who is the middle man?

 

All will shout from the roof tops and you have to figure it out, pure message is in there, most are saying that way of themselves. You will find as your desires lead you, as will I. We are all saying Supersoul, Guru is in my heart, listem to me. you will find the voice that is suitable for you. does not mean you will find full truth, you still can be cheated. And you will go freely.

 

Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das Bhakti-raja

 

You are missing the point of why I mentioned we all need instruction:

 

 

Originally Posted by bhaktatraveler

Shouldn't only the more advanced speak and those in need of instruction listen?

 

 

You were indicating only some of us should speak (you? are you more advanced?) and some of us in need of instruction should only listen. My point is even the most qualified among us here are students, and to take the position that some should essentially shut up because you believe they are wrong is pretty closed minded. But I'm not surprised you misunderstood.

 

Though I am surely unqualified, all should remember advancement is not how many years you have been in the movement, how many slokas you know, how much physical proximity you have had to Guru or how much you think you understand Guru and Shastra. That is an internal thing we can't easily guage when interacting with each other, we can have an idea but we should be very careful when trying to nail down the position of the devotees, especially when we are trying to place them at a lower position than ourselves. And even when we know someone's position may be lower, we should have the proper mood and treat them with honor and respect.

[Bhakta Devarsi]

 

Now as seen on T.V.

Organize yourself, your family and your community into Daiva Varasrama Dharma or DVD!

I thought I was a Brahmana but my friends at the Alchoholics Anonymous Meeting convinced me that I'm a Sudra!

I like to make money and chant, am I a Vaishya?

I'm a single mom, looking for a Ksatriya to sweep me off my feet!

All this and more! And all your Questions Answered for only $199.99 for your Do it Yourself DVD Kit.

Who needs a current Acarya! Forget Diksa, you'll just fall down anyway.

Hurry while supplies last!

 

 

 

Now THAT was funny. and clever. but partly based on a misunderstanding because the following was never shown to you until now.

 

Here is your Sudra's Diksa,

Mr. Beggar.

 

 

Prabhupada: But for management we have to do that. One can do the sudra’s work nicely—let him be engaged in that way. Why he should imitate?

 

Mahamsa: Does he get second initiation?

 

Prabhupada: Everything he will get.

 

Mahamsa: He gets.

 

Prabhupada: Yes. Second initiation means recognized: “Now he has become fully competent Vaishnava.” Just like master is teaching the servant, “Now you give massage in this way, this way.” But that does not mean he has become servant.

 

 

And Also Note,

 

Prabhupada: Not that a sudra man is by force become a brahmana. You cannot improve. That is not possible. But even if he remains a sudra and does accordingly, he will get the same position as devotee. Sva-karmana tam abhyarcya sam... He’ll get the perfection. At the present moment the idea is: if one remains a sudra, then he cannot get perfection. No. Even a sudra can get perfection provided he does the work of a sudra perfectly.

 

Hari-sauri: For Krishna.

 

Prabhupada: Therefore why a sudra artificially should be a brahmana? Let them, let him remain a sudra, and if he follows strictly the rules and regulation of sudra, he’ll also be as good as a brahmana. The same example: Just like head is as important as my leg. It is not that because it is leg, it is less important than my head. And if you ask the head, “Do the work of a leg,” it is impossible. And if you ask the leg to work as a brain, that is impossible. Let him remain brain, let him remain leg, and do your duty and you become perfect.

 

Please note here that he is following rules and regulations of a sudra, yet receiving 2nd Diksa initiation from a bona-fide Acharya, and is considered

AS GOOD as a brahmana, not qualified to act as brahmana.

 

But if the sudra follows perfectly they will DEVELOP (implies period of time) all good Vaisnava qualities, of which qualities many are the same as the good qualities of one Qualified as a Brahmana (that is by social emotional maturity, and not just acting as brahmana because he knows some rituals and can write legibly)

 

So Vaisnava Sudra will develop all good qualities. But should not be acting in a LEADERSHIP role in Iskcon. If there is another more qualified.

 

That is what this discussion is really about. A multitude of people who have fooled people that they were QUALIFIED to teach and lead and that even if they conceeded "lack of qualification" it was done in false humility and they begged off that the situation was an emergency, but THEY were the ones who created the chaotic emergency by their deviations and the banning of truly empowered neophytes from the power club.

 

And now they are back on their feet, wiser for the wear, and some of them never even imbibed a fraction of the Poisonous Spell that the Tamal Ham gang had over so many for so long.

 

The victims were meant to know their varna, and enjoy gradual advancement in their spiritual life through devotional service in the mixed category.

 

This was Srila Prabhupada's final diagnosis and prescription for his immediate disciples, WHAT TO MENTION OF THE REST OF THE SUFFERING WEST who we were to help him wake up, by his guidance.

 

The prognosis is improving by the minute, the more we consider how to arrange ourselves in harmony with our neighbor, without him having to arrange us (Communists at the doorstep), so we learn DVD, know who our dance partners are, and Chant dance and be happy.

 

BM

 

 

 

[Bhakta Devarsi]

 

My point is even the most qualified among us here are students, and to take the position that some should essentially shut up because you believe they are wrong is pretty closed minded.

 

All the simple new age views about the teacher and the student and how the teacher is always as student aside...(as it has its application, just not relevant in cases of mistaken identity, aka false authority)

 

If this were an orderly classroom being directed by a teacher in an orderly way, those who did not know would essentially shut up, unless they were submissively asking a question from someone they assumed would be able to answer it.

 

If one cannot recognize who has something to offer on a particular subject, they may approach the wrong person.

 

The internet is actually quite chaotic, especially forums unmitigated by potent authority figures. Remember, there was ALOT that Srila Prabhupada would not tolerate in the beginning, and he kept a very orderly house around his person, like a father, ORDERING MOST EVERYONE AROUND, but with love in his heart, so the orders were easy to obey.

 

The Vedic Spirit of Debate and its Etiquette, put simply is that 2 or more people agree on the following.

 

1. Recognition that one is holding a particular viewpoint regarding some object, and considers it relatively OR absolutely true, and thus defensible.

 

2. Recognition that if one is found to be in illusion it is welcomed, because they will find relief in the shelter of the truth revealed.

 

3. THUS a Willingness to be proved wrong by evidence from descended authority, presented in a logical fashion so as to instruct fully.

 

Anything else is a junket into the world of arguementation via a quest for power over others on false authority, one's false ego.

 

And people who are up to this love the internet. I should know, I flirted with this disaster, even backed up by Srila Prabhupada's authority, for Maya has been looking over my shoulder and tempting me since I started typing on this box.

 

So sometimes, woven in between the color commentary of the wannabees, and the cackling of the jackals, there appears a sincere thread of honest inquiry, and that is what keeps the Devarsi wannabee in me tapped into the transcendental potential of this dimension of Lord Indra's net.

 

So please consider me learning to teach, teaching to serve, and out on a japa walk for the evening.

 

Hare Krsna

 

BM

[Guest guest]

Whats the VAD squad doing here, anyway. Why nnot the other curreent thread.

 

Anyway, ISKCON used the ploy of VAD to exert egomaniacal control over others. This way, they can openly discriminate against those not in their clique just as they have pracrticed open mysogeny over the years. I have no problem understanding VAD, because this is a natural creation by Lord Brahma. But if you have kali cela deciding who is brahmana, who gets the guns, who counts the money, and who are the lower class, I dont call them vaisnavas, I call them british. They have no concept of VAD, they are expert in the caste system. And the reformers are no different, because they are the followers of the great TKG.

 

So, we are really not even sudras, so we should all shut up according to some's philosophy. Again, I see lots of soundbites, bits and pieces from the prabhupada said crew, but no one has a grasp on what VAD is. It is a natural creation of Lord Brahma, and if someone has natural propensity to act as brahmana, an esteemed advisor of all members of society, yet has no political pull with a materialistic society thet bears the name of Srila Prabhupada, such a person does the dishes and mops the floor, while bankers appointed by the same foundational leadership lose $100,000,000 in a span of 25 years and administrators cannot make decisions on clear cut criminal activity, you got just another perverted reflection of what was created by Lord Brahma.

 

Contrivance and wishful thinking does not make it in this program. Be yourself, dont pretend, dont accept false authority suddenly out of fanaticism, judge with your feet all you hear from, this is intelligence. The Vad Squad can play their DVD's all they want, but what they really need is to go back to the standing order of VCR (Vaisnava Cooperation Requirement).

 

I remember a greatly advanced disciple of Srila Prabhupada was told by a GBC that he was not bonafide. Srila Prabhupada told his sanyassi to speak, and chastized the GBC, saying, "You have no qualification to determine who is bonafide. I asked him to speak, and you question this decision, saying he is not bonafide? This is rascaldom". He later chastized this sanyassi who was reluctant to speak in the assembly of those who did not like him, saying "My opinion counts, the opinions of others do not." (Paraphrased discussion, but accurate.) So, if Srila Prabhupada asks me to be sudra, then that is what I am. He chastized me for pretending to be King Pariksit, but after the chastizement was over, he told me to become a real king. So am I a ksatriya? Maybe, but I didnt have to run to the gun store and bully all the bankers and workers demanding that they serve me. My mission is to become king, and I do this by understanding RAJAVIDYA. This is Vaisnavism, not polluted by materialistic kingdoms and false sense of control over others.

 

All the VAD squad and those with thousands of convenient quotes on their data bases should erase all of them, log out, and go read the intro to BGAII. This way, you get Prabhupada as he is, in context, and his quotes will no longer be a source of anxiety for yall. And leave his personal letters alone, unless they are addressed to you, of course. This is a violation of his human rights, reading his mail, etc. Where is this authorized?

 

haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

[Bhakta Devarsi]

 

Whats the VAD squad doing here, anyway. Why nnot the other curreent thread.

 

Anyway, ISKCON used the ploy of VAD to exert egomaniacal control over others. This way, they can openly discriminate against those not in their clique just as they have pracrticed open mysogeny over the years. I have no problem understanding VAD, because this is a natural creation by Lord Brahma. But if you have kali cela deciding who is brahmana, who gets the guns, who counts the money, and who are the lower class, I dont call them vaisnavas, I call them british. They have no concept of VAD, they are expert in the caste system. And the reformers are no different, because they are the followers of the great TKG.

 

So, we are really not even sudras, so we should all shut up according to some's philosophy. Again, I see lots of soundbites, bits and pieces from the prabhupada said crew, but no one has a grasp on what VAD is. It is a natural creation of Lord Brahma, and if someone has natural propensity to act as brahmana, an esteemed advisor of all members of society, yet has no political pull with a materialistic society thet bears the name of Srila Prabhupada, such a person does the dishes and mops the floor, while bankers appointed by the same foundational leadership lose $100,000,000 in a span of 25 years and administrators cannot make decisions on clear cut criminal activity, you got just another perverted reflection of what was created by Lord Brahma.

 

Contrivance and wishful thinking does not make it in this program. Be yourself, dont pretend, dont accept false authority suddenly out of fanaticism, judge with your feet all you hear from, this is intelligence. The Vad Squad can play their DVD's all they want, but what they really need is to go back to the standing order of VCR (Vaisnava Cooperation Requirement).

 

I remember a greatly advanced disciple of Srila Prabhupada was told by a GBC that he was not bonafide. Srila Prabhupada told his sanyassi to speak, and chastized the GBC, saying, "You have no qualification to determine who is bonafide. I asked him to speak, and you question this decision, saying he is not bonafide? This is rascaldom". He later chastized this sanyassi who was reluctant to speak in the assembly of those who did not like him, saying "My opinion counts, the opinions of others do not." (Paraphrased discussion, but accurate.) So, if Srila Prabhupada asks me to be sudra, then that is what I am. He chastized me for pretending to be King Pariksit, but after the chastizement was over, he told me to become a real king. So am I a ksatriya? Maybe, but I didnt have to run to the gun store and bully all the bankers and workers demanding that they serve me. My mission is to become king, and I do this by understanding RAJAVIDYA. This is Vaisnavism, not polluted by materialistic kingdoms and false sense of control over others.

 

All the VAD squad and those with thousands of convenient quotes on their data bases should erase all of them, log out, and go read the intro to BGAII. This way, you get Prabhupada as he is, in context, and his quotes will no longer be a source of anxiety for yall. And leave his personal letters alone, unless they are addressed to you, of course. This is a violation of his human rights, reading his mail, etc. Where is this authorized?

 

haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

 

Funny that you have such an easy time targeting the "prabhupada said crew" as the focus of your disappointment, yet go on immediately to PARAPHRASE Srila Prabhupada and claim ACCURACY, in such an ASSURING manner, as if you weren't just lambasting those who do this.

 

Suddenly me and CB, me who has lived outside Iskcon for 10 years and 6 weeks, out of the 6 weeks I peeked my head into a temple including various forays, and CB who rejected them with FORCE since 78 and has maintained his own home asrama since on Srila Prabhupada's vani,

 

Suddenly, we are part of that old bogeyman the VAD squad.

 

Get over it man, you got the wrong guys. You didn't really read everything we have posted, or catch our gravely accurate yet sincere and sometimes playful mood because you are too busy tripping on the demons of your past.

 

Take 2 asprin and log back in the morning, and we can continue like gentlemen?

 

Hare Krsna

[theist]

 

Whats the VAD squad doing here, anyway. Why nnot the other curreent thread.

Indeed! But then again they are on a self appointed mission from God so who can stop them? Anyone who objects to their "preaching" must be an agent of the anti-Prabhupada or else why would they object to such empowered siksa.

 

What a head trip. They are so confused that they are arguing for a system that they feel must be adopted in Iskcon to people who are not even in Iskcon.

 

Back into your iskcon box boys where you can play big time Kysatriyas to your hearts content and where you may have hope of attracting a couple of followers.

 

Oh yeah and you may want to remember that VAD or DVD, whichever you prefer, is a lifestyle and not just a topic for "preaching". How about you share some of your exalted ksyatriya pastimes with us. I am sure they would be inspiring. You know, like save any damsels in distress and slay any dragons lately?

 

[bhaktatraveler]

 

Whats the VAD squad doing here, anyway. Why nnot the other curreent thread.

 

Anyway, ISKCON used the ploy of VAD to exert egomaniacal control over others. This way, they can openly discriminate against those not in their clique just as they have pracrticed open mysogeny over the years. I have no problem understanding VAD, because this is a natural creation by Lord Brahma. But if you have kali cela deciding who is brahmana, who gets the guns, who counts the money, and who are the lower class, I dont call them vaisnavas, I call them british. They have no concept of VAD, they are expert in the caste system. And the reformers are no different, because they are the followers of the great TKG.

 

So, we are really not even sudras, so we should all shut up according to some's philosophy. Again, I see lots of soundbites, bits and pieces from the prabhupada said crew, but no one has a grasp on what VAD is. It is a natural creation of Lord Brahma, and if someone has natural propensity to act as brahmana, an esteemed advisor of all members of society, yet has no political pull with a materialistic society thet bears the name of Srila Prabhupada, such a person does the dishes and mops the floor, while bankers appointed by the same foundational leadership lose $100,000,000 in a span of 25 years and administrators cannot make decisions on clear cut criminal activity, you got just another perverted reflection of what was created by Lord Brahma.

 

Contrivance and wishful thinking does not make it in this program. Be yourself, dont pretend, dont accept false authority suddenly out of fanaticism, judge with your feet all you hear from, this is intelligence. The Vad Squad can play their DVD's all they want, but what they really need is to go back to the standing order of VCR (Vaisnava Cooperation Requirement).

 

I remember a greatly advanced disciple of Srila Prabhupada was told by a GBC that he was not bonafide. Srila Prabhupada told his sanyassi to speak, and chastized the GBC, saying, "You have no qualification to determine who is bonafide. I asked him to speak, and you question this decision, saying he is not bonafide? This is rascaldom". He later chastized this sanyassi who was reluctant to speak in the assembly of those who did not like him, saying "My opinion counts, the opinions of others do not." (Paraphrased discussion, but accurate.) So, if Srila Prabhupada asks me to be sudra, then that is what I am. He chastized me for pretending to be King Pariksit, but after the chastizement was over, he told me to become a real king. So am I a ksatriya? Maybe, but I didnt have to run to the gun store and bully all the bankers and workers demanding that they serve me. My mission is to become king, and I do this by understanding RAJAVIDYA. This is Vaisnavism, not polluted by materialistic kingdoms and false sense of control over others.

 

All the VAD squad and those with thousands of convenient quotes on their data bases should erase all of them, log out, and go read the intro to BGAII. This way, you get Prabhupada as he is, in context, and his quotes will no longer be a source of anxiety for yall. And leave his personal letters alone, unless they are addressed to you, of course. This is a violation of his human rights, reading his mail, etc. Where is this authorized?

 

haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

 

 

You go to far with the Lord Brahma as speaker/instituter of DVD. I saw else where. It is Krsna first, from Krsna. He says in BG. Did Brahma speak BG? Then? Who is creater of the Mahattava? not Brahma. Your priorities are backwards.

 

 

3/25/75 Mayapura SB lecture.

 

These few words, if you simply understand... Blindly or openly, it doesn’t matter. Because if you touch fire, either blindly or openly, it will act. It will act. It is not that because I blindly accept Krishna as the Supreme Person, that will not act. No, it will act. Even if you have accepted Krishna blindly, it will act. Because the thing is the same. Either you accept in open eyes or blind eyes. So similarly, if you accept this theory—it is not theory; this is fact, that Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead—these few words, then you are advanced student, immediately. Take it from me, that simply this conviction, that “Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead,” then you are advanced student in spiritual life.

 

 

(CB-r)

 

I just like the above, not you though right? You spite fire at the institution of DVD.

 

I once saw a quote that said the words of the Guru have to act. I took it to mean the word/order was potent/impowered for the follower as long as he acted in some way to support, asist, imbide in the heart, that sooner or later the 'word' would act, give fruit. If you relentlessly reject DVD how can the order live or ever manifest in your life?

 

This whole post was poison and rejectable as a whole. At least I'm presenting Srila Prabhupada's answer to our social problems. And you? You care not for other devotees pain and suffering that could be mitigated?

 

There's nothing worthy to address here, all straw and a waste of time over and over and over again, the same reworded, child like aguements. I have sited Guru, you please counter with Guru's rejection of DVD....

 

CC. ANTYA 5.71

PURPORT

One is forbidden to accept the guru, or spiritual master, as an ordinary human being (gurushu nara-matih). When Ramananda Raya spoke to Pradyumna Misra, Pradyumna Misra could understand that Ramananda Raya was not an ordinary human being. A spiritually advanced person who is authorized to act as the spiritual master speaks as the Supreme Personality of Godhead dictates from within. Thus it is not he that is personally speaking. In other words, when a pure devotee or spiritual master speaks, what he says should be accepted as having been directly spoken by the Supreme Personality of Godhead in the parampara system.

 

 

11/24/75 Mumbai CC. Lecture

 

If you want to abide by the orders of Krishna, anu-silanam... Anu-silanam means cultivation. The words are there. The words are not different from Krishna. So as soon as you take the words as it is, you immediately associate with Krishna. Otherwise you take the instruction of guru, representative of Krishna. If you can please your guru, yasya prasadad bhagavat-prasadah... **. If you can please His representative, then you please Him. So in this way, krishnanusilanam, that is our duty, anukulyena, anukula, not pratikula. There are two ways of acting, anukula and pratikula. If you act as I desire, that is anukula, and if you act what I don’t desire, that is pratikula. So Krishna consciousness must be anukula, according to the desire of Krishna, as it is confirmed by guru. That is anukula, favorable. And if you act whimsically, which Krishna does not desire or the guru does not desire, then it is pratikula. So anukulyena krishnanusilanam, that is bhakti.

 

(CB-r)

Post Prabhupada's words that support rejection of DVD, as you say to do. This is what to listen to, not me and not Mahaksa's words. Who's preaching is more pleaseing to Prabhupada? Negative diatribe or encourageing attempts? Jai Srila Prabhupada vani.

 

All the above quotes are used to show your mood as wrong. Please counter with proff that rejection is the right understanding or surender to the idea, at least.

 

Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das Bhakti-raja

[bhaktatraveler]

 

Indeed! But then again they are on a self appointed mission from God so who can stop them? Anyone who objects to their "preaching" must be an agent of the anti-Prabhupada or else why would they object to such empowered siksa.

 

What a head trip. They are so confused that they are arguing for a system that they feel must be adopted in Iskcon to people who are not even in Iskcon.

 

Back into your iskcon box boys where you can play big time Kysatriyas to your hearts content and where you may have hope of attracting a couple of followers.

 

Oh yeah and you may want to remember that VAD or DVD, whichever you prefer, is a lifestyle and not just a topic for "preaching". How about you share some of your exalted ksyatriya pastimes with us. I am sure they would be inspiring. You know, like save any damsels in distress and slay any dragons lately?

 

 

I'm speaking to the air waves beyond you two.

 

Mahaksa used the VAD, he wants to make as many waves as posible, whenever posible.

 

And this topic is perfect for DVD conversations.

 

I've saved a few LA lady devotees in my time, thank you, court jester.

 

One in San Diego too. From a suffer gang.

 

Those were the days

 

 

CB-r

[theist]

They remind me of a large group of young western sikhs I saw in Hrisikesh. They were thirty of them walking together all decked out in fancy new sikh clothes with brand new turbans and they all had the same big curved knives sheathed to their waists.

 

They were strutin' all over the place but I never saw them do anything ksyatriya like, like take on some of the Gunda's that walk around with tridents selling ganja and trying to scare $ out of tourists.

 

They did strike a good profile though. So Vouge.

[bija]

I consider myself a sudra because of wasting the first half of my life in pursuit of the unreal. Thus entering darkness and not being able to tell what was what. Where the influence of the mode of ignorance was dominent.

 

I consider myself a sudra because the only work I can seem to be qualified for is menial tasks.

 

I am attempting to be a Vaisnava, hence forth desiring that this propensity to talk loosely of other Vaisnava's may leave my heart.

 

What qualifications in life deems one fit to call themselves, Ksatriya?

[bhaktatraveler]

 

They remind me of a large group of young western sikhs I saw in Hrisikesh. They were thirty of them walking together all decked out in fancy new sikh clothes with brand new turbans and they all had the same big curved knives sheathed to their waists.

 

They were strutin' all over the place but I never saw them do anything ksyatriya like, like take on some of the Gunda's that walk around with tridents selling ganja and trying to scare $ out of tourists.

 

They did strike a good profile though. So Vouge.

 

The jester only has more jokes, not scripture. I though this thread was about regulative principles? Quotes by Srila Prabhupada to support your jesting/condensending mood. Nothing from Mr 10,600+ post, of what? Jest?So much talk, so little said.

 

'Regulative Principles' of Krsna Consciousness movement from Srila Prabhupada I think is the subject. Something from Prabhupada that will support your jesting/rejection.

 

 

Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das Bhakti-raja

[bhaktatraveler]

 

I consider myself a sudra because of wasting the first half of my life in pursuit of the unreal. Thus entering darkness and not being able to tell what was what. Where the influence of the mode of ignorance was dominent.

 

I consider myself a sudra because the only work I can seem to be qualified for is menial tasks.

 

I am attempting to be a Vaisnava, hence forth desiring that this propensity to talk loosely of other Vaisnava's may leave my heart.

 

What qualifications in life deems one fit to call themselves, Ksatriya?

 

BG 18.43

 

Heroism, power, determination, resourcefulness, courage in battle, generosity, and leadership are the qualities of work for the kñatriyas.

 

 

CB-r

[brajeshwara das]

A question for the ksatriyas: Have you eaten meat per the following? Not a criticism, just curious:

 

 

Prabhupada: Yes. But not from the slaughterhouse. Those who are kshatriyas, they can, they’re allowed sometimes to eat meat. It is understood Bhima, Bhima also eating sometimes meat. Bhima. Amongst the Pandavas, only Bhima. Not others. So if the kshatriyas, they want to eat meat, they can be allowed on particular occasions. But they must go to the forest and kill the animal. Not that for meat-eating regular slaughterhouses should be maintained. This is all nonsense, degradation. If you want to eat meat, you go to the forest. And the sudras, they also sometimes eat meat. Or the candalas.

 

[Bhakta Devarsi]

 

I consider myself a sudra because of wasting the first half of my life in pursuit of the unreal. Thus entering darkness and not being able to tell what was what. Where the influence of the mode of ignorance was dominent.

 

I consider myself a sudra because the only work I can seem to be qualified for is menial tasks.

 

I am attempting to be a Vaisnava, hence forth desiring that this propensity to talk loosely of other Vaisnava's may leave my heart.

 

What qualifications in life deems one fit to call themselves, Ksatriya?

That is a nice prayer Bija Prabhu.

 

Between your self observed symptoms of Sudra Varna due what you have to trade for living, coupled with your attempting to be a Vaisnava, this places you AT LEAST in the category of beginner Vaisnava in good faith. That is no small thing. A neophyte following the rules and regulations given by their Guru faithfully is considered to be a pure devotee who will make rapid advancement.

 

And of course my Srila Prabhupada has this to say about such a person if they follow strictly the "rules and regulations of a sudra"

 

 

Prabhupada: Not that a sudra man is by force become a brahmana. You cannot improve. That is not possible. But even if he remains a sudra and does accordingly, he will get the same position as devotee. Sva-karmana tam abhyarcya sam... He’ll get the perfection. At the present moment the idea is: if one remains a sudra, then he cannot get perfection. No. Even a sudra can get perfection provided he does the work of a sudra perfectly.

 

Hari-sauri: For Krishna.

 

Prabhupada: Therefore why a sudra artificially should be a brahmana? Let them, let him remain a sudra, and if he follows strictly the rules and regulation of sudra, he’ll also be as good as a brahmana. The same example: Just like head is as important as my leg. It is not that because it is leg, it is less important than my head. And if you ask the head, “Do the work of a leg,” it is impossible. And if you ask the leg to work as a brain, that is impossible. Let him remain brain, let him remain leg, and do your duty and you become perfect.

So you just do the leg work for now. If you are inspired by the tasks of other varnas and see latent ability, present yourself! Perhaps you would be best serving, and the group of devotees you are with would be best served if you played a different role. It is all about efficiency in pushing forth the Sankirtana movement in the most harmonious and productive manner.

 

Since everyone involved is gradually developing Vaisnava qualities, you should never feel as if someone is looking down at you. If that is the case, you made a wrong turn, and should beg the Lord for guidance to proper association.

 

Of course if you are with a group of sincere people who are properly situated according to their natural tendencies of social order, but are proceeding with great difficulty due to many faults and imperfections, and maybe one or two people are out of varna just to keep the whole gig afloat, hey, welcome to Kali Yuga, we need to tolerate that kind of blemish and look for the chance to improve without dwelling overly so on the material side. If a wheel falls off the Rath Cart in mid parade, that needs to be tended to no? Other wise, if it develops a crack but still will roll, and you are 9/10 the way to the finish line, the judgement call says limp along.

 

I am not from the VAD squad. I am a DVD player. There is a difference.

 

Hare Krsna

 

ys

 

BM

[bija]

 

I am not from the VAD squad. I am a DVD player. There is a difference. quote by BM

Well then I will try not to be puffed up by serving you as the 'remote control'.

 

I have heard that it is possible for a brahmana to fall from his position and become sudra. Why is it not possible for sudra to become brahmana?

 

Prabhupada: Not that a sudra man is by force become a brahmana. You cannot improve. That is not possible.

[Bhakta Devarsi]

 

Well then I will try not to be puffed up by serving you as the 'remote control'.

 

I have heard that it is possible for a brahmana to fall from his position and become sudra. Why is it not possible for sudra to become brahmana?

 

Prabhupada: Not that a sudra man is by force become a brahmana. You cannot improve. That is not possible.

 

Lol, I wish I could control myself.

 

Anyway back to the topic,

 

A sudra Man, would be a person who when met by the Vaisnava was immersed in ignorance of Vedic knowledge, AND doing what they are told in a laborious menial way in the beginning (apprentice) which can lead to a graceful artform (master), from the street sweeper to the visual artist, what they have in common is lack of the qualities of other varnas. Here we speak of the general idea of sudra.

 

So one may quickly gain the good qualities of a Vaisnava through sincere practice of the rules and regulations of a Sudra according to Daivi Varnasrama, and thus the good qualities of a Brahmana, but what about the intellectual skill, the intellectual stamina.

 

For so long a Kali Yuga sudra did not have clue #1 as to anything but mating sleeping eating and defending. No knowledge of transcendental realities, or tendencies toward Righteous piety.

 

And if a Man, 20 or older, how to then turn that person who never tended to be skillful in teaching, to study and repeating scripture, or leading a lifestyle of ritual goodness, into that.

 

I never say never, if the desire is there, and the person has latent and supressed tendencies, they may be reeducated especially if there is someone who can see their potential and draw it out if they are willing to undergo the necessary training.

 

But generally, a leg is a leg, there would be no movement without legs, and in DVD, they are treasured, and never have a sense of being less then around the other parts of the body, and in such a situation, they feel Krsna Conscious and part of the family, because that is how they are seen by other devotees. Thus with sincerety their advancement is guaranteed because the higher varnas never abandon, never withdraw their shelter, and at death, the sudra will be so infused with the love of his fellows devotees, he will eagerly certainly remember Krsna at death.

 

That is how I see it.

 

Thank you for the great conversation.

 

y.s.

 

BM

[bhaktatraveler]

 

A question for the ksatriyas: Have you eaten meat per the following? Not a criticism, just curious:

 

 

I think this should cover BG 18.43, and give a good dog and pony show.

 

Killing many times as per Srila Prabhupada's vani. I have hunted in India, Sri Lanka, and US. Eating as I like, as I have killed only.

 

I have managed well as per the satisfaction of those managed and resulting increase in production, books out, money collected.

 

I have been resorceful as need, when need and always know what to do next at any give time in my surroundings.

 

I have always been a monogamous grhastha and am only single now because of failure on the wifes part. Adult son are witness to this. All sons and daughter live with me by free will, avoiding the woman.

 

I've spent 27 yrs attempting to develop houshold life as a religious experience and a cultural haven. Living as I preached and lead. Not one day of abandonment, abuse to wife or children, nor lack of support. my wife never worked, not one day.

 

I have always help the weak and defenceless and have been know to stop violence anywhere I am. Or be violent for protection when I'm needed. I have military experience. And upto looseing hearing, practiced killing.

 

I have opened my house many times to devotees in need and given in charity as expected. Though lately I am much more selective. Because I am poor and know how to repare my own cars, I offer to work and devotees cars for free if they are in need. This I do regularly.

 

I preach DVD to everone I meet, God conscious 4 varnas and 4 asramas. On the street, in the grocery store check out, to the plummer, baker and candle stick maker. Talked a middle aged black lady into being a slave, in theory, under the conditions I discribed once. Always I will try for DVD.

 

Its a show, you asked. But all true.

 

Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das Bhakti-raja

[bija]

I have more questions.

 

In the Gita Krsna has described the varnas. I presume at the time Krsna spoke these words the varna system was operating functionally as a structure in the society.

 

Today we do not have this system functioning as such in visible structure. But by closer observation we can see the variety of people and their varying qualifications. It is fairly easy to observe the nature of friends, neighbours etc. Especially after knowing someone for some time.

 

So even though we do not have varna operating in a visible societal structure as such, the distinctions still exist in the material sphere. I think this is where Krsna's words on the said subject can still be seen as apparent today. Even though we do not have functioning varna in such a structured way as in vedic times, the distinctions of varna are still there today. Even if not acknowledged.

 

Do you think this varna system can be introduced to modern society in a structured way? Do you think this is possible for the world? Or is it already existing in a modern context?

[bhaktatraveler]

 

I have more questions.

 

In the Gita Krsna has described the varnas. I presume at the time Krsna spoke these words the varna system was operating functionally as a structure in the society.

 

Today we do not have this system functioning as such in visible structure. But by closer observation we can see the variety of people and their varying qualifications. It is fairly easy to observe the nature of friends, neighbours etc. Especially after knowing someone for some time.

 

So even though we do not have varna operating in a visible societal structure as such, the distinctions still exist in the material sphere. I think this is where Krsna's words on the said subject can still be seen as apparent today. Even though we do not have functioning varna in such a structured way as in vedic times, the distinctions of varna are still there today. Even if not acknowledged.

 

Do you think this varna system can be introduced to modern society in a structured way? Do you think this is possible for the world? Or is it already existing in a modern context?

 

 

Without us devotees living like the Pennsylvania Dutch as example, we will have a hard time changing a non Vaisnava anytime soon. Devotees are no better.

 

The real thrust now is to bring this idea to the forefront of discussion. Just like Srila Prabhupada says in BG 18.18.......

 

Knowledge, the object of knowledge and the knower are the three factors which motivate action; the senses, the work and the doer comprise the threefold basis of action.

 

PURPORT

There are three kinds of impetus for daily work: knowledge, the object of knowledge and the knower. The instruments of work, the work itself and the worker are called the constituents of work. Any work done by any human being has these elements. Before one acts, there is some impetus, which is called inspiration. Any solution arrived at before work is actualized is a subtle form of work. Then work takes the form of action. First one has to undergo the psychological processes of thinking, feeling and willing, and that is called impetus. Actually the faith to perform acts is called knowledge. The inspiration to work is the same if it comes from the scripture or from the instruction of the spiritual master. When the inspiration is there and the worker is there, then actual activity takes place by the help of the senses. The mind is the center of all senses, and the object is work itself. These are the different phases of work as described in Bhagavad-gétä. The sum total of all activities is called accumulation of work.

 

Guru says it can happen.

 

CB-r

[theist]

 

Well then I will try not to be puffed up by serving you as the 'remote control'.

 

I have heard that it is possible for a brahmana to fall from his position and become sudra. Why is it not possible for sudra to become brahmana?

 

Prabhupada: Not that a sudra man is by force become a brahmana. You cannot improve. That is not possible.

Yes it is not possible by force. But we don't rely on external forces we rely on the mercy of Sri Krsna.

 

TRANSLATION CC Madya 17.80

“‘The Supreme Personality of Godhead has the form of sac-cid-änanda-vigraha [bs. 5.1]—transcendental bliss, knowledge and eternity. I offer my respectful obeisances unto Him, who turns the dumb into eloquent speakers and enables the lame to cross mountains. Such is the mercy of the Lord.’”

Our varna standing is irrelevant.

 

[bija]

Is there any Hare Krsna farms and communities in the U.S. operating with a fully functional varnasrama sytem?

 

Excuse my ignorance of this I am isolated from Krsna communities here in Australia.