Regulative Principles Mandatory?

[bhaktatraveler]

 

Yes it is not possible by force. But we don't rely on external forces we rely on the mercy of Sri Krsna.

 

TRANSLATION CC Madya 17.80

“‘The Supreme Personality of Godhead has the form of sac-cid-änanda-vigraha [bs. 5.1]—transcendental bliss, knowledge and eternity. I offer my respectful obeisances unto Him, who turns the dumb into eloquent speakers and enables the lame to cross mountains. Such is the mercy of the Lord.’”

Our varna standing is irrelevant.

 

 

 

 

Yes, varna is only relevent in social structure, management of community. Not spiritual unstanding, nor advancement. It is means, not goal. Nor end.

 

CB-r

[Shakti-Fan]

We Will Never Leave ISKCON (Excerpt)

Nov. 20, 2001

 

<table border="0" width="800"><tbody><tr> </tr> <tr> </tr></tbody></table>Tridandisvami Sri Srimad Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja

 

 

tyaktva sva-dharmam caranambujam harer

bhajann apakvo 'tha patet tato yadi

yatra kva vabhadram abhud amusya kim

ko vartha apto 'bhajatam sva-dharmatah

["If someone gives up his occupational duties and works in Krsna consciousness and then falls down on account of not completing his work, what loss is there on his part? And what can one gain if one performs his material activities perfectly?" Or, as the Christians say, "What profiteth a man if he gains the whole world yet suffers the loss of his eternal soul?" (1.5.17)]

The navarshis said to Vyasadeva that if one performs his material duties perfectly and regularly, there is no true benefit. If he follows varnasrama-dharma perfectly, there is actually no spiritual gain. On the other hand, if one begins chanting the holy name, is initiated by a pure guru, and is trying to follow him, but he comes under the clutches of maya; as long as he does not commit offenses he has a chance for spiritual progress. What is the gain in varnasrama? Even if one performs his duty, still, the spiritual result is nil.

Srila Swami Maharaja's internal mood is the same as that of Caitanya Mahaprabhu and our guru-paramapara - to change the direction of the living entities' mood towards Krsna. This is the best mercy, and he endeavored throughout his life for this. In his last days he told me he was not satisfied, because he was remembering so many of his disciples who were not following him and not trying to be real Iskcon. He therefore ordered me, "Help my disciples and give me samadhi." He also told me, "I made some mistakes. Please ask my god-brothers to forgive me, because I preached to my disciples that they are not preaching." I replied to him, "You made no offense. It was your duty at that time. You said your god-brothers are not preaching. This was just to give your less intelligent neophyte disciples enthusiasm. You have not done a wrong thing. You spoke appropriately for the needs of your students at that time. Your internal desire was to turn their mood toward Krsna. Now you are seeing that they are offensive to your god-brothers, by saying they have not preached."

What is preaching? If one is 'preaching' and not following bhakti, then his activity is karma-marga (the path of fruitive activities). Where are the persons who were preaching all over the world? So many are not in Iskcon. Your Prabhupada therefore requested me to help them to become Iskcon in the real sense.

Don't follow the rtviks. They are not disciples of Prabhupada. They never actually served him in a real sense, and they are opposed to his teachings. You should try to realize what instructions Srila Swami Maharaja has given. He has never given anything other than the instructions of Srila Rupa Gosvami. He always followed Rupa Gosvami, and therefore he is a rupanuga-vaisnava. He wanted to very clearly give the path of rupanuga, but he first had to cut down the jungles of mayavada and atheism. Because he wanted to give this path, he requested me to help them. He could have given it then, but they were not ready at that time. He told me to help them so that they could become strong in bhakti; more strong than iron; as strong as thunderbolts. You should therefore preach your Prabhupada's real mission, Rupa Gosvami's mission, everywhere.

 

Only those who have had a high class of sadhu-sanga can realize his mission and his glories. Only a maha-bhagavata can understand another maha-bhagavata. You cannot realize this. You have heard from Srila Prabhupada Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura that Vamsidasa Babaji was a paramahamsa. Unless you heard it from Srila Sarasvati Thakura, how could you have understood? [Vamsidasa Babaji would, for example, keep fish bones in front of his hut, and sometimes he wouldn't dress his Deities. On other occasions he wouldn't follow Ekadasi, and sometimes he would offer tea and coffee to his Thakurji.] Prapujacarana Srila Bhakti Raksaka Sridhara Maharaja has also said about your Prabhupada that his power came from Sri Nityananda Prabhu, and therefore he is a saktyavesa-avatara. Who can realize this? Only one who is following him in the real sense.

I used to see him when he was singing Sad Gosvami-astakam and Gauranga Bolite Habe. He used to sing in a pathetic tune (filled with feelings of separation and longing for Krsna), with his voice choked up and tears in his eyes.

Gaura Premanande!

[bhaktatraveler]

 

Is there any Hare Krsna farms and communities in the U.S. operating with a fully functional varnasrama sytem?

 

Excuse my ignorance of this I am isolated from Krsna communities here in Australia.

 

As we have been discussing regulative principle of 4 varnas and 4 asramas? No! And that is why the push to imbide at least the idea amoung those that say 'I am a devotee of Krsna'

 

CB-r

[bija]

anywhere in the world?

[bhaktatraveler]

 

We Will Never Leave ISKCON (Excerpt)

Nov. 20, 2001

 

<TABLE width=800 border=0><TBODY><TR></TR><TR></TR></TBODY></TABLE>Tridandisvami Sri Srimad Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja

 

 

tyaktva sva-dharmam caranambujam harer

bhajann apakvo 'tha patet tato yadi

yatra kva vabhadram abhud amusya kim

ko vartha apto 'bhajatam sva-dharmatah

["If someone gives up his occupational duties and works in Krsna consciousness and then falls down on account of not completing his work, what loss is there on his part? And what can one gain if one performs his material activities perfectly?" Or, as the Christians say, "What profiteth a man if he gains the whole world yet suffers the loss of his eternal soul?" (1.5.17)]

The navarshis said to Vyasadeva that if one performs his material duties perfectly and regularly, there is no true benefit. If he follows varnasrama-dharma perfectly, there is actually no spiritual gain. On the other hand, if one begins chanting the holy name, is initiated by a pure guru, and is trying to follow him, but he comes under the clutches of maya; as long as he does not commit offenses he has a chance for spiritual progress. What is the gain in varnasrama? Even if one performs his duty, still, the spiritual result is nil.

Srila Swami Maharaja's internal mood is the same as that of Caitanya Mahaprabhu and our guru-paramapara - to change the direction of the living entities' mood towards Krsna. This is the best mercy, and he endeavored throughout his life for this. In his last days he told me he was not satisfied, because he was remembering so many of his disciples who were not following him and not trying to be real Iskcon. He therefore ordered me, "Help my disciples and give me samadhi." He also told me, "I made some mistakes. Please ask my god-brothers to forgive me, because I preached to my disciples that they are not preaching." I replied to him, "You made no offense. It was your duty at that time. You said your god-brothers are not preaching. This was just to give your less intelligent neophyte disciples enthusiasm. You have not done a wrong thing. You spoke appropriately for the needs of your students at that time. Your internal desire was to turn their mood toward Krsna. Now you are seeing that they are offensive to your god-brothers, by saying they have not preached."

What is preaching? If one is 'preaching' and not following bhakti, then his activity is karma-marga (the path of fruitive activities). Where are the persons who were preaching all over the world? So many are not in Iskcon. Your Prabhupada therefore requested me to help them to become Iskcon in the real sense.

Don't follow the rtviks. They are not disciples of Prabhupada. They never actually served him in a real sense, and they are opposed to his teachings. You should try to realize what instructions Srila Swami Maharaja has given. He has never given anything other than the instructions of Srila Rupa Gosvami. He always followed Rupa Gosvami, and therefore he is a rupanuga-vaisnava. He wanted to very clearly give the path of rupanuga, but he first had to cut down the jungles of mayavada and atheism. Because he wanted to give this path, he requested me to help them. He could have given it then, but they were not ready at that time. He told me to help them so that they could become strong in bhakti; more strong than iron; as strong as thunderbolts. You should therefore preach your Prabhupada's real mission, Rupa Gosvami's mission, everywhere.

 

Only those who have had a high class of sadhu-sanga can realize his mission and his glories. Only a maha-bhagavata can understand another maha-bhagavata. You cannot realize this. You have heard from Srila Prabhupada Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura that Vamsidasa Babaji was a paramahamsa. Unless you heard it from Srila Sarasvati Thakura, how could you have understood? [Vamsidasa Babaji would, for example, keep fish bones in front of his hut, and sometimes he wouldn't dress his Deities. On other occasions he wouldn't follow Ekadasi, and sometimes he would offer tea and coffee to his Thakurji.] Prapujacarana Srila Bhakti Raksaka Sridhara Maharaja has also said about your Prabhupada that his power came from Sri Nityananda Prabhu, and therefore he is a saktyavesa-avatara. Who can realize this? Only one who is following him in the real sense.

I used to see him when he was singing Sad Gosvami-astakam and Gauranga Bolite Habe. He used to sing in a pathetic tune (filled with feelings of separation and longing for Krsna), with his voice choked up and tears in his eyes.

Gaura Premanande!

 

 

As irrelivent to the issue of Srila Prabhupada's DVD instruction today as it was when spoken. Must be static in the TV reception tonight. What an unnecessary post.

 

Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das bhakti-r

[bhaktatraveler]

 

anywhere in the world?

 

 

What do you mean? Oh! you edited. Yes, preaching amoung devotees is first. Anywhere in the world.

 

CB-r

[bija]

what I mean is...are there many Hare Krsna communities in the world with fully functioning varnasrama structure.

[bhaktatraveler]

 

what I mean is...are there many Hare Krsna communities in the world with fully functioning varnasrama structure.

 

 

NO

 

CB-r

[Shakti-Fan]

 

As irrelivent to the issue of Srila Prabhupada's DVD instruction today as it was when spoken. Must be static in the TV reception tonight. What an unnecessary post.

 

Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das bhakti-r

DVD is like the husk and Krsna bhakti is like the grain of rice itself. Both are necessary, but still, there is no real taste or nourishment in the husk. Yet without the husk at a particular stage then no rice. But if we have some spiritual hunger these DVD topics although connected with Prabhupada and the general philosophy will become dry and boring. If you want to follow Prabhupada then preach and give Hari Katha like he did. We need to hear about every aspect of the philosophy in the same balanced way that he gave. To focus on DVD is a political mentality, a mental concoction and a manifestation of lack of guidance.

[bhaktatraveler]

 

DVD is like the husk and Krsna bhakti is like the grain of rice itself. Both are necessary, but still, there is no real taste or nourishment in the husk. Yet without the husk at a particular stage then no rice. But if we have some spiritual hunger these DVD topics although connected with Prabhupada and the general philosophy will become dry and boring. If you want to follow Prabhupada then preach and give Hari Katha like he did. We need to hear about every aspect of the philosophy in the same balanced way that he gave. To focus on DVD is a political mentality, a mental concoction and a manifestation of lack of guidance.

 

The first part of this is half agreeable.

 

The last line is not at all as Prabhupada would say in the context of the topic. DVD is half of what the movement is. Thats the point is the topic, if you want Krsna katha as in talks about the pastimes of the Lord then go to another topic. Others are great at this and I will not post DVD there unless I see it discussed.

 

Political activites are for ksatriya, I claim. So why not discuss as such? Mental concoction?????? Pigs eye:mad: Manifestation of lack of guidance? That brings me back to the inquirery as to who is Govinda Maharaja's siksha? I have as much guidence as Govinda Maharaja, through Srila prabhupada's merciful instructions, just like anyone else can. Go bark that 'living Guru' tune at someone elses tree, I'm not listening.

 

Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das Bhakti-raja

[brajeshwara das]

 

I think this should cover BG 18.43, and give a good dog and pony show.

 

Killing many times as per Srila Prabhupada's vani. I have hunted in India, Sri Lanka, and US. Eating as I like, as I have killed only.

 

I have managed well as per the satisfaction of those managed and resulting increase in production, books out, money collected.

 

I have been resorceful as need, when need and always know what to do next at any give time in my surroundings.

 

I have always been a monogamous grhastha and am only single now because of failure on the wifes part. Adult son are witness to this. All sons and daughter live with me by free will, avoiding the woman.

 

I've spent 27 yrs attempting to develop houshold life as a religious experience and a cultural haven. Living as I preached and lead. Not one day of abandonment, abuse to wife or children, nor lack of support. my wife never worked, not one day.

 

I have always help the weak and defenceless and have been know to stop violence anywhere I am. Or be violent for protection when I'm needed. I have military experience. And upto looseing hearing, practiced killing.

 

I have opened my house many times to devotees in need and given in charity as expected. Though lately I am much more selective. Because I am poor and know how to repare my own cars, I offer to work and devotees cars for free if they are in need. This I do regularly.

 

I preach DVD to everone I meet, God conscious 4 varnas and 4 asramas. On the street, in the grocery store check out, to the plummer, baker and candle stick maker. Talked a middle aged black lady into being a slave, in theory, under the conditions I discribed once. Always I will try for DVD.

 

Its a show, you asked. But all true.

 

Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das Bhakti-raja

 

I'm just curious how this harmonizes with Srila Swami Maharaj's words below:

 

 

Please accept my blessings. I thank you for your letter dated 1st January, 1972 and am glad that you have received my letter. The four sinful activities which one must avoid if there is to be any hope for spiritual advancement are the eating of meat, fish and eggs, the use of intoxicants, illicit connection with women, and gambling. So these are the first four sins which I ask all of my students to strictly avoid committing. Practically the entire population of the world is entrapped by these four sinful activities. In our Krishna Consciousness Society we are training our students up to the standard of brahminical culture. So the great respect we are getting here in India and throughout the rest of the world is due to these restrictions. Actually our students have surpassed the category of brahmana because they are Vaisnavas which means they are transcendental to any material position, and brahmana is a material order of life, part of the Varna Ashrama system. Many times I have been told by other so-called holy men that I should not expect that foreigners will be able to avoid these sinful activities. But I have never compromised in any way and as a result of our sticking strictly to our principles our position is unique.

 

I believe Srila Swami Maharaj wants the devotees to break up into the varnas and ashrams for organizational reasons only, but that devotees are not part of those varnas. So because a karmi ksatriya can eat meat on occasions doesn't mean an ISKCON devotee that is part of the ksatriya section should.

[brajeshwara das]

 

As such in the system of Varnashram Dharma every man and woman is trained up for this purpose of eternal life and in other words the system of Varnasharm Dharma is known also as Sanatan Dharma or eternal occupation.

Can someone clarify this, I thought these were two different things altogether.

 

Here is the complete verse so nothing is out of context:

 

 

 

TEXT No. 4

TEXT

Sa chintayan ittham atha asrinod yatha

Muneh sutokto nirritis takshak akhyah

Sa sadhu mene na chirena takshaka

Analam prasaktasya virakti karanam

ENGLISH SYNONYMS

Sa—he the king, Chintayan—thinking, Ittham—like this, Atha—now, Asrinod—heard, Yatha—as as, Muneh—of the sage, Sutokto—uttered by the son, Nirritis—death, Takshkakhya—in relation with the snake bird, Sa—he the king, Sadhu—well and good, Mene—accepted, Na—not, Chirena—very long time, Takshaka—snake-bird, Analam—fire, Prasaktasya—for one who is too much attached, Virakti—indifference, Karanam—cause.

TRANSLATION

 

 

While the king was repenting like this at that time he received the news about his imminent death from the bitting of a snake bird, as it was spoken by the son of the sage. He however, accepted the news as well and good for its being the cause of his indifference towards worldly attachments.

PURPORT

Real happiness is achieved by spiritual existence or by cessation of the repetitions of birth and death. Such repetitions of birth and death can be stopped only by going back to home back to Godhead. In the material world even by attaining the living conditions in the topmost planet (Brahmaloka) planet, nobody can get rid of the conditions of repetitions of birth and death. We want to stop the repetitions of birth and death but we do not accept the path of attaining the perfection. The path of perfection is that one must be freed from all material attachments and thus be fit for entering into the spiritual kingdom. Therefore, those who are materially poverty-stricken, are better candidates than those who are materially prosperous. Maharaj Parikshit was a great devotee of the Lord and bonafide candidate for entering into the kingdom of God but even though he was so, his material environments as the great emperor of the world, was a setback in the perfect attainment of his rightful status as one of the associates of the Lord in the spiritual sky. As a devotee of the Lord he could understand that the cursing of the Brahmin boy, although unwisely, was a blessing upon him being the cause of detachment from worldy affairs both political and social. Samik Muni also after regretting the incidence of his son's cursing upon the king, conveyed the news to the king as a matter of duty so that the king would be able to prepare himself for going back to Godhead. The Samik Muni sent news to the king that the foolish Srighee his son, although a powerful Brahmin boy, unfortunately had misused his spiritual power by cursing the king unwarrantedly. The incidence of the King's garlanding the Muni was not sufficient case for being cursed to death by the foolish boy but as there was no remedy to retract the curse, the king was informed for preparation of death within a week. Both Samik Muni and the king were self realised souls. Samik Muni was a mystic and Maharaj Parikshit was a devotee. Therefore there was no difference between them in the matter of self realisation and none of them were afraid of meeting death. Maharaj Parikshit could have gone to the Muni for begging his pardon but the news of his death was conveyed to the king with so much regret by the Muni that the king did not like to put the Muni into further ashamed position by his presence there. He decided to prepare himself for the imminent death and find out the way of going back to Godhead.

 

The complete span of life of a human being is meant for preparing himself for going back to Godhead or to get rid of the material existence made of the repetition of birth and death. As such in the system of Varnashram Dharma every man and woman is trained up for this purpose of eternal life and in other words the system of Varnasharm Dharma is known also as Sanatan Dharma or eternal occupation. The system of Varnasharam Dharma prepares a man for going back to Godhead and thus a householder is ordered to go to the forest as Vanaprastha to acquire complete knowledge and then to take Sanyas prior to the inevitable death. Parikshit Maharaj was fortunate to get the notice of seven days for meeting the inevitable death, but for the common man there is no such definite notice although death is inevitable for all. Foolishman forgets this sure fact of death and neglects the duty of preparing himself for going back to Godhead and spoils the life in animal propensities to eat, drink, be merry and enjoy. Such irresponsible life is adopted by the people in the age of Kali on account of sinful desires to condemn the Brahminical culture, God consciousness and cow protection for which the state is responsible. The state must employ the revenue in the matter of advancing the above mentioned three items and thus educate the populace to prepare for the death and going back to Godhead. The state which does so is the real welfare state. The state of India may better follow the examples of Maharaj Parikshit the ideal executive head than to imitate other materialistic states who have no idea of the kingdom of Godhead, the ultimate goal of human life. Deterioration of the ideals of Indian civilization has brought about the deterioration of civic life not only in India but also abroad.

[bhaktatraveler]

 

I'm just curious how this harmonizes with Srila Swami Maharaj's words below:

 

 

 

I believe Srila Swami Maharaj wants the devotees to break up into the varnas and ashrams for organizational reasons only, but that devotees are not part of those varnas. So because a karmi ksatriya can eat meat on occasions doesn't mean an ISKCON devotee that is part of the ksatriya section should.

 

You seculation is baseless. I have shown the evidence. You think I've never had other confirmation from some those devotees that were there during these conversations and privy to the direct hearing? Silly boy.

 

Srila Prabhupada once said 'If I told you everything, you would faint'. I'm just the one that is shouting from the roof tops. Others are sheepish, can't stand the ridicule I take. But they have told me as confirmation.

 

The date of this reference you site is before the change to a different paradigm.

 

And I can follow an order even if the WHOLE world rejects it. Can I not?

 

Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das Bhakti-raja

[Bhakta Devarsi]

 

I thought these were two different things altogether

 

The optimal way for a Gaudiya Vaisnava to obtain his knowledge is via the descending process, which means accepting the words of authority as they are.

 

If there arises a case where we "thought" that 2 things our authority is claiming are virtually identical, were "altogether different", this means we were speculating, and we jumped ahead of ourselves, taking in bits of information here and there by reading above our level of practical realization, and thus forming illusory concepts.

 

If you want clarity, go back to the beginning. Start reading the Bhagavad Gita. Take it as it is, concept by concept.

 

If you find yourself speculating, curse your mind, pray for forgiveness, whatever it takes, and go back to what you know, and learn the next step.

 

Rehab is a bitch, but she serves our highest interest, which is NOT jumping ahead, for it leads to thinking things that aren't, and wastes your precious life.

 

Hare Krsna

 

ys

 

BM

[brajeshwara das]

 

You seculation is baseless. I have shown the evidence. You think I've never had other confirmation from some those devotees that were there during these conversations and privy to the direct hearing? Silly boy.

 

Srila Prabhupada once said 'If I told you everything, you would faint'. I'm just the one that is shouting from the roof tops. Others are sheepish, can't stand the ridicule I take. But they have told me as confirmation.

 

The date of this reference you site is before the change to a different paradigm.

 

And I can follow an order even if the WHOLE world rejects it. Can I not?

 

Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das Bhakti-raja

 

The varnashrama college that Srila Swami Maharaj wanted to open, was that for the whole of society or for initiated disciples?

 

I still have a hard time believing he told his initiated disciples that they should eat meat. He said that even though a Vaisnava may do the work of a sudra, he isn't a sudra. So it seems a misunderstanding to me to think because you are doing the work of a ksatriya, as an initiated disciple, a devotee, you can skip the regulative principles and eat meat.

 

Please give more quotes on this subject, specifically about initiated disciples eating meat. Generalities about the varnashrama system may not apply, my concern really is about devotional life, not adjusting society at large. I'm not saying you are wrong and to an extent it makes sense, but the statement "our sinful activities which one must avoid if there is to be any hope for spiritual advancement" seems pretty clear to me. You are following the moral materialistic doctrine of varnashrama and that is fine, but shouldn't you also follow the spiritual path as well? It seems you made a bad trade to me. I really feel you misunderstand Srila Swami Maharaj on this, but please clarify, if you show he wanted his initiated disciples to eat meat I will accept that.

[Bhakta Devarsi]

 

The varnashrama college that Srila Swami Maharaj wanted to open, was that for the whole of society or for initiated disciples?

 

I still have a hard time believing he told his initiated disciples that they should eat meat. He said that even though a Vaisnava may do the work of a sudra, he isn't a sudra. So it seems a misunderstanding to me to think because you are doing the work of a ksatriya, as an initiated disciple, a devotee, you can skip the regulative principles and eat meat.

 

Please give more quotes on this subject, specifically about initiated disciples eating meat. Generalities about the varnashrama system may not apply, my concern really is about devotional life, not adjusting society at large. I'm not saying you are wrong and to an extent it makes sense, but the statement "our sinful activities which one must avoid if there is to be any hope for spiritual advancement" seems pretty clear to me. You are following the moral materialistic doctrine of varnashrama and that is fine, but shouldn't you also follow the spiritual path as well? It seems you made a bad trade to me. I really feel you misunderstand Srila Swami Maharaj on this, but please clarify, if you show he wanted his initiated disciples to eat meat I will accept that.

 

This is a clear example of using a personal communication between Guru and disciple, via a private letter, which was meant for his ears only in a unique place and time, and projecting that as something that would trump further adjustments to his instructions to the society via public conversations addressing senior disciples.

 

You lose a sense priorities when the poison of jumping over the head of Guru takes effect, and thus wind up having to try and rationalize what is plainly a sense of confusion and conceptual contradiction in one's daily life.

 

Please learn from this lesson, it is a good one.

 

Hare Krsna

[brajeshwara das]

 

This is a clear example of using a personal communication between Guru and disciple, via a private letter, which was meant for his ears only in a unique place and time, and projecting that as something that would trump further adjustments to his instructions to the society via public conversations addressing senior disciples.

 

You lose a sense priorities when the poison of jumping over the head of Guru takes effect, and thus wind up having to try and rationalize what is plainly a sense of confusion and conceptual contradiction in one's daily life.

 

Please learn from this lesson, it is a good one.

 

Hare Krsna

 

Sorry but the regs were laid out clearly for all and didn't you guys agree to follow when you took initiation? A vow? Did Srila Swami Maharaj tell you you are released from some regs?

 

Again, quotes supporting that it is OK for an initiated disciple to eat meat would be helpful. Many more would join the movement if that were the case I guess. Would there be a separate ksatriya initiation, a sudra initiation, a vaisya initiation?

[Beggar]

 

 

Srila Prabhupada once said 'If I told you everything, you would faint'.

Once when accompanied by Acyutananda Maharaja, Prabhupada went to Sridhar Maharaja's Math. There Prabhupada and Sridhar Maharaja retired to Sridhar Maharaja's room in order to have a private conversation. When they came out of the room several hours later, Acyutananda Maharaja asked Prabhupada what they were talking about. Prabhupada told, "If I told you everything, you would faint, Sridhar Maharaja has such high realizations".

[bhaktatraveler]

 

I'm a donkey, you are a dinosaur. Wait, I thought you were a magpie!

 

Anyhow, I really didn't mean any offense, I hope you know that. As much as I argue with you guys, I know you are sincere and I just wanty to have the proper understanding. If you've got it, great, but you'll have to convince me.

 

 

No, No, No offense. It's my spelling that is at fault. Not what I'm saying.

 

To address the other post about meat eating. In the same conversation Prabhupada says 'in ISKCON', 'our centers'. It is there for the honest. He is asked twice in that first conversation about 4 reg's and both times augments the perscription of regulation. It is said by Prabhupada, as I have repeated. And try my best to live.

 

Believe me when I make a big mistake Prabhupada will tell me to correct it. Last time I tryed to present this DVD cosmoligy on line I was told to stop by my Guru and I did. That is why I have been silent for so long, on all the forms. You can see my date of registration is 04. And no posts untill now. Now He has said to speak.

 

Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das Bhakti-raja

[bhaktatraveler]

 

Once when accompanied by Acyutananda Maharaja, Prabhupada went to Sridhar Maharaja's Math. There Prabhupada and Sridhar Maharaja retired to Sridhar Maharaja's room in order to have a private conversation. When they came out of the room several hours later, Acyutananda Maharaja asked Prabhupada what they were talking about. Prabhupada told, "If I told you everything, you would faint, Sridhar Maharaja has such high realizations".

 

My reference came from a different person, on this subject of DVD, as he said.

 

CB-r

[Bhakta Devarsi]

 

Sorry but the regs were laid out clearly for all and didn't you guys agree to follow when you took initiation? A vow? Did Srila Swami Maharaj tell you you are released from some regs?

 

Again, quotes supporting that it is OK for an initiated disciple to eat meat would be helpful. Many more would join the movement if that were the case I guess. Would there be a separate ksatriya initiation, a sudra initiation, a vaisya initiation?

 

Srila Prabhupada was obviously giving one set of instructions for the brahminical varna if you haven't figured that out by now. He accepted casualties, get over it. We can triage the wounded, they were cheated by their own ambition, Srila Prabhupada gave them what they really wanted, an opportunity to cheat using the Holy Name. How merciful.

 

There are quotes in this thread regarding what the members of his Society are supposed to do to eat meat and still be recognized.

 

Another huge mental blinder is to make a difference between Srila Prabhupada's instructions and rules for his disciples, and what the rest of the world should do. How to defend that????

 

His disciples were supposed to share these rules with the rest of the world.

 

So of course the Varnasrama College was for the rest of the world.

 

The rest of the world is exemplified in each new person who approached and is interested. They become disciple when they follow the rules.

 

Simple for the Simple.

 

But for the sake of your hang up, he also said "not that we will encourage", but if they persist, we are to make natural arrangements. Then he gave the time schedules, and the specific Material Demigod Managers to appease with a an offering of meat and puja.

 

It is in there so you can look it up, just like I would have to do, if you don't value my paraphrasing.

 

Hare Krsna

[brajeshwara das]

 

No, No, No offense. It's my spelling that is at fault. Not what I'm saying.

 

To address the other post about meat eating. In the same conversation Prabhupada says 'in ISKCON', 'our centers'. It is there for the honest. He is asked twice in that first conversation about 4 reg's and both times augments the perscription of regulation. It is said by Prabhupada, as I have repeated. And try my best to live.

 

Believe me when I make a big mistake Prabhupada will tell me to correct it. Last time I tryed to present this DVD cosmoligy on line I was told to stop by my Guru and I did. That is why I have been silent for so long, on all the forms. You can see my date of registration is 04. And no posts untill now. Now He has said to speak.

 

Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das Bhakti-raja

 

Could you repost the quote, with as much of the surrounding conversation as possible. 'in ISKCON', 'our centers' doesn't say 'initiated disciples' so I want to ber sure what the context is. Thanks.

[bhaktatraveler]

 

Sorry but the regs were laid out clearly for all and didn't you guys agree to follow when you took initiation? A vow? Did Srila Swami Maharaj tell you you are released from some regs?

 

Again, quotes supporting that it is OK for an initiated disciple to eat meat would be helpful. Many more would join the movement if that were the case I guess. Would there be a separate ksatriya initiation, a sudra initiation, a vaisya initiation?

 

The diametric expantion of DVD would be a next Hare Krsna explosion. World wide.

 

CB-r

[bhaktatraveler]

 

Could you repost the quote, with as much of the surrounding conversation as possible. 'in ISKCON', 'our centers' doesn't say 'initiated disciples' so I want to ber sure what the context is. Thanks.

 

converstion on 3/12-14/74 or 2/14/77 on DVD. to much to repost. please go back in this thread or the DVD thread. A list of references was posted early on the DVD thread about a compilation book.

 

CB-r

[theist]

 

Killing many times as per Srila Prabhupada's vani. I have hunted in India, Sri Lanka, and US. Eating as I like, as I have killed only.

 

So we know of at least C the bhakti king practices what he preachs. However it is not what Prabhupada taught. Much of the conversations he is quoting is from a talk in Vrndavana where Srila Prabhupada is discussing about opening up a varnashrama college in India, (I think Vrndavana but don't remember exactly). This college was to be for the general public where parents could send their kids.

 

We are still waiting for the explict quote where Srila Prabhupada gives permission for his initiated kysatriya type disciples to go to the woods to kill and eat some poor animal.

 

Can you picture it. Once a month all these so-called kysatriyas set out from the city Iskcon centers in a camo colored van, dressed a vedic warriors, heading for woods to get in their killing practice.

 

I don"t know what you guys are smoking but I think you got a bad batch. Which brings up ainteresting pont. Are Srila Prabhupada's initiated disciples who are classified as sudras also allowed to break the no intoxication vows on some schedulued basis, you know like a few beers or bowls after work?