Regulative Principles Mandatory?

[bhaktatraveler]

 

Could you repost the quote, with as much of the surrounding conversation as possible. 'in ISKCON', 'our centers' doesn't say 'initiated disciples' so I want to ber sure what the context is. Thanks.

 

Letter to Trai das/Roma dated 5/27/74

 

 

I am enclosing brahmana threads and gayatri mantra for Adi Kesava das and Vivasvan das. You must be very careful before you award the brahminical thread by recommending a man to me. Now that we are dividing our society into the four orders as much as possible, it is not that every man has to be made a brahmana after a year. Especially if one cannot even get up early and go to mangala arati he cannot become a brahmana. So consider it carefully before you recommend further men to me.

 

CB-r

[bhaktatraveler]

 

So we know of at least C the bhakti king practices what he preachs. However it is not what Prabhupada taught. Much of the conversations he is quoting is from a talk in Vrndavana where Srila Prabhupada is discussing about opening up a varnashrama college in India, (I think Vrndavana but don't remember exactly). This college was to be for the general public where parents could send their kids.

 

We are still waiting for the explict quote where Srila Prabhupada gives permission for his initiated kysatriya type disciples to go to the woods to kill and eat some poor animal.

 

Can you picture it. Once a month all these so-called kysatriyas set out from the city Iskcon centers in a camo colored van, dressed a vedic warriors, heading for woods to get in their killing practice.

 

I don"t know what you guys are smoking but I think you got a bad batch. Which brings up ainteresting pont. Are Srila Prabhupada's initiated disciples who are classified as sudras also allowed to break the no intoxication vows on some schedulued basis, you know like a few beers or bowls after work?

 

Another condencending to DVD post true to 'form' by aTheist. All pun intended. Plus intended miss direction in the first sentence, DVD is for ISKCON.....

 

 

letter 5/27/74 to TP Roma

 

I am enclosing brahmana threads and gayatri mantra for Adi Kesava das and Vivasvan das. You must be very careful before you award the brahminical thread by recommending a man to me. Now that we are dividing our society into the four orders as much as possible, it is not that every man has to be made a brahmana after a year. Especially if one cannot even get up early and go to mangala arati he cannot become a brahmana. So consider it carefully before you recommend further men to me.

 

CB-r

[bhaktatraveler]

 

So we know of at least C the bhakti king practices what he preachs. However it is not what Prabhupada taught. Much of the conversations he is quoting is from a talk in Vrndavana where Srila Prabhupada is discussing about opening up a varnashrama college in India, (I think Vrndavana but don't remember exactly). This college was to be for the general public where parents could send their kids.

 

We are still waiting for the explict quote where Srila Prabhupada gives permission for his initiated kysatriya type disciples to go to the woods to kill and eat some poor animal.

 

Can you picture it. Once a month all these so-called kysatriyas set out from the city Iskcon centers in a camo colored van, dressed a vedic warriors, heading for woods to get in their killing practice.

 

I don"t know what you guys are smoking but I think you got a bad batch. Which brings up ainteresting pont. Are Srila Prabhupada's initiated disciples who are classified as sudras also allowed to break the no intoxication vows on some schedulued basis, you know like a few beers or bowls after work?

 

For a 'real' devotee of Srila Prabhupada's it would take only one or two quotes to prove a point. You, I could show 10,000+, like your number of posts here, and you would still regergitate fire from that Agrasura belly of yours. Causless unwillingness, aversion to accept Guru.

 

CB-r

 

You have been shown. What say you now?

[theist]

 

Another condencending to DVD post true to 'form' by aTheist. All pun intended. Plus intended miss direction in the first sentence, DVD is for ISKCON.....

 

 

letter 5/27/74 to TP Roma

 

I am enclosing brahmana threads and gayatri mantra for Adi Kesava das and Vivasvan das. You must be very careful before you award the brahminical thread by recommending a man to me. Now that we are dividing our society into the four orders as much as possible, it is not that every man has to be made a brahmana after a year. Especially if one cannot even get up early and go to mangala arati he cannot become a brahmana. So consider it carefully before you recommend further men to me.

 

CB-r

 

Yes no one disputes that those who have brahminical qualities were wanted to be pujaris and teachers within iskcon. He also gave instruction about keeping firearms, referrence back to the bike gangs raid on New Vrndavan.

 

But clearly in the quote from the letter above he is talking about an expanded sense of "our society" apart from temple life. No one who lives in the temple was allowed to sleep through mangal arotik, or are you suggesting now that those who haven't received braminical initiation should be allowed to sleep in.

 

 

You also didn't answer my questions about hunting parties from the temples and sudra intoxication being allowed for initiated disciples.

 

You see when it comes down to specifics you don't have it tied down very well and are only making a confusing presentation.

[theist]

 

For a 'real' devotee of Srila Prabhupada's it would take only one or two quotes to prove a point. You, I could show 10,000+, like your number of posts here, and you would still regergitate fire from that Agrasura belly of yours. Causless unwillingness, aversion to accept Guru.

 

CB-r

 

You have been shown. What say you now?

 

So show those one or two at least that are specific to the questions asked. The fact that you don't do and offer insults instead is a sure sign that you know you have no ground to stand on.

 

But I understand. You are in too deep to back out now in a way that can be face saving for you.

[bhaktatraveler]

 

Yes no one disputes that those who have brahminical qualities were wanted to be pujaris and teachers within iskcon. He also gave instruction about keeping firearms, referrence back to the bike gangs raid on New Vrndavan.

 

But clearly in the quote from the letter above he is talking about an expanded sense of "our society" apart from temple life. No one who lives in the temple was allowed to sleep through mangal arotik, or are you suggesting now that those who haven't received braminical initiation should be allowed to sleep in.

 

 

You also didn't answer my questions about hunting parties from the temples and sudra intoxication being allowed for initiated disciples.

 

You see when it comes down to specifics you don't have it tied down very well and are only making a confusing presentation.

 

It is not confusing to the honest devotee. The letter and all my quotes have been spot on and clear. It is the fork tongue you speak with that is dupliscious.

 

The letter plainly says 'our society into 4 orders', your convoluting, not me.

 

CB-r

[bhaktatraveler]

 

So show those one or two at least that are specific to the questions asked. The fact that you don't do and offer insults instead is a sure sign that you know you have no ground to stand on.

 

But I understand. You are in too deep to back out now in a way that can be face saving for you.

 

Your babbling now. Wipe the drool from your mouth. I have shown over and over. It is your free will to refuse to accept.

 

2/14/77 cover.

 

Hari-çauri: Where will we introduce the varëäçrama system, then?

Prabhupäda: In our society, amongst our members.

 

also in the same place....

 

 

Satavarupa: Introduced starting with ISKCON community?

Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. Brahman, ksatriyas. There must be regular education.

 

 

CB-r

[theist]

 

Your babbling now. Wipe the drool from your mouth. I have shown over and over. It is your free will to refuse to accept.

 

2/14/77 cover.

 

Hari-çauri: Where will we introduce the varëäçrama system, then?

Prabhupäda: In our society, amongst our members.

 

also in the same place....

 

 

Satavarupa: Introduced starting with ISKCON community?

Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. Brahman, ksatriyas. There must be regular education.

 

 

CB-r

 

Again nothimg about initiated disciples being able to chuck off their vows to follow the four regs. As much as you may want to go varmit huntin' and snack on some fresh squirrel meat once in awhile you made a vow to Krsna devotee that you would abstain from such ...ahem..pleasures.

 

Back to the vedabase bhakti king.

[bhaktatraveler]

 

Again nothimg about initiated disciples being able to chuck off their vows to follow the four regs. As much as you may want to go varmit huntin' and snack on some fresh squirrel meat once in awhile you made a vow to Krsna devotee that you would abstain from such ...ahem..pleasures.

 

Back to the vedabase bhakti king.

 

Actually no, I'm not going to the folio again. Point was made. You are a cyber ghost with no name and personal accountibility as to what you say. I am whom I say I am. Your not worthy of more.

 

Truth was presented as it is.

 

CB-r

[Bhakta Devarsi]

 

So we know of at least C the bhakti king practices what he preachs. However it is not what Prabhupada taught. Much of the conversations he is quoting is from a talk in Vrndavana where Srila Prabhupada is discussing about opening up a varnashrama college in India, (I think Vrndavana but don't remember exactly). This college was to be for the general public where parents could send their kids.

 

We are still waiting for the explict quote where Srila Prabhupada gives permission for his initiated kysatriya type disciples to go to the woods to kill and eat some poor animal.

 

Can you picture it. Once a month all these so-called kysatriyas set out from the city Iskcon centers in a camo colored van, dressed a vedic warriors, heading for woods to get in their killing practice.

 

I don"t know what you guys are smoking but I think you got a bad batch. Which brings up ainteresting pont. Are Srila Prabhupada's initiated disciples who are classified as sudras also allowed to break the no intoxication vows on some schedulued basis, you know like a few beers or bowls after work?

Oh doom and gloom, its too late, just grovel and chant the names prabhu.

 

Yawn.

 

 

We are still waiting for the explict quote

 

This from a theist I know who claims he is not trying to start his own movement, yet he speaks for his disciples quite plainly. "WE are waiting."

 

I'll get around to it. If you and your imaginary friends are really interested.

 

And about this, fear not.

 

 

Once a month all these so-called kysatriyas set out from the city Iskcon centers in a camo colored van, dressed a vedic warriors, heading for woods to get in their killing practice.

The command will be, shoot to kill, only if he is a thiest.

 

Ha got ya on that one, OOh, I am so funny.

 

and silly.

 

So what, I am also right on the mark.

 

And apparently you NEED a batch like i got.

 

Hare Krsna

[theist]

 

Oh doom and gloom, its too late, just grovel and chant the names prabhu.

 

Yawn.

 

 

This from a theist I know who claims he is not trying to start his own movement, yet he speaks for his disciples quite plainly. "WE are waiting."

 

I'll get around to it. If you and your imaginary friends are really interested.

 

And about this, fear not.

 

The "we" includes braja who has also been asking this question. You'll "get around to it" huh? No thanks no post dated blank checks accept. Put up or shut up until you have some proof that due to ones varna the 4 regs can be set aside in some regulated way.

 

You will be held responsible for any disciples you mislead.

 

 

 

The command will be, shoot to kill, only if he is a thiest.

 

Gee a threat to shoot me. Shows what lies in your heart my friend.

 

 

Ha got ya on that one, OOh, I am so funny.

 

and silly.

 

So what, I am also right on the mark.

 

And apparently you NEED a batch like i got.

 

Hare Krsna

 

Yeah you are a real joke alright.

[theist]

 

Actually no, I'm not going to the folio again. Point was made. You are a cyber ghost with no name and personal accountibility as to what you say. I am whom I say I am. Your not worthy of more.

 

Truth was presented as it is.

 

CB-r

 

Point was not made.

 

 

I am whom I say I am.

 

What,a kysatriya? Actually you are spiritsoul. These varna's only relate to whatever guna is prominent in your material pyschophysical constitution at any particular point in time. THAT is what you should be speaking to the clerk at local store about and not how he is a sudra or vaisya.

[brajeshwara das]

In SCSMath we have 1st and 2nd initiations. 1st is Hare Nama with the agreement to follow the 4 regs. No fire sacrifice. 2nd is Gayatri initiation with the sacrifice. Then you are a Brahmin. So there is room there to not have to reach the brahminical standards, but still the 4 regs are required. We are initiated to be devotees, not ksatriyas, vaisyas or sudras.

 

Anyhow, if you took a vow to follow the 4 regs and have gone a'hunting, I can't blame you, I have gotten intoxicated, gambled and had illicit sex. An egg or two as well. But I would never consider trying to interpret Guru's words to mean I am released from my vow. I am a sinner and a terrible disciple who has not followed correctly according to my agreement with my Gurudeva. I am truly lower than a worm in stool and am ashamed of myself.

 

What it appears to me, please forgive any offense but I'm speaking from the heart, is that Maya has clouded your judgment and you used Srila Swami Maharaj's desire for a varnashrama college and to have the varnas as part of ISKCON to mean that you are released from your vows. You apparently look for his words to support your conclusions instead of looking for the truth in his words. This is bad for you and I hope you can see that. That is worse than the act of killing and eating the meat. You may act in the capacity of a ksatriya but please don't ignore Srila Swami Maharaj said a devotee is not in the varnas though you play that role. Unless he specifically released you from your vows you are bound to them, no matter what you have worked out in your head. Others that may follow may be bound by different rules surely, but they are not retroactive (unless you can prove otherwise).

 

But that isn't to say you guys don't have a real mission with your DVD. Just misconceptions maybe. I would think the way the varna system should be set up would be for the congregation of lay people who haven't taken initiation like theist, who aren't ready to make those vows. They can be identified as those varnas and participate in the society without being bound to any vows. They would be encouraged to follow surely but no vows. But once one takes Hare Nama initiation, unless a bona fide acharya says otherwise, they should try and follow the four regs as best they can. Hopefully this would keep those that aren't ready for the vows engaged and on the path of bhakti, and those that take the vows would be limited to persons ready for the commitment. Once they take the vows, they are still a ksatriya or whatever their varna was, but they are bound to the vows and considered an aspiring devotee. Then second initiation for those with the inclination for pujari etc service. This would seem to harmonize everything from my thinking.

 

Please consider this with an open heart.

[Bhakta Devarsi]

 

Oh doom and gloom, its too late, just grovel and chant the names prabhu.

 

Yawn.

 

 

This from a theist I know who claims he is not trying to start his own movement, yet he speaks for his disciples quite plainly. "WE are waiting."

 

I'll get around to it. If you and your imaginary friends are really interested.

 

And about this, fear not.

 

 

The command will be, shoot to kill, only if he is a thiest.

 

Ha got ya on that one, OOh, I am so funny.

 

and silly.

 

So what, I am also right on the mark.

 

And apparently you NEED a batch like i got.

 

Hare Krsna

 

 

For those of you just tuning in, here is the situation.

 

In an inspired mood, the Audarya Fellowship has allowed a watershed internet forum free-for all to take place. The topic, the lifeblood of Iskcon, the orders of the Founder, Acharya, and Initiating Spiritual Master, HDG Bhaktivedanta Swami, specifically his orders to

 

 

Hari-çauri: Where will we introduce the varëäçrama system, then?

Prabhupäda: In our society, amongst our members.

 

and more specifically regarding the evolution of his specifically detailed instructions for the rules and regulations for each varna as personal instruction for those who tended to need institutional rules, instructions which came to an end in late 1977, and which a true disciple would never imagine were contradictory to the general guidelines of DVD given in his Books.

 

So, we have a few telling it like it is, for the first time in a spontaneously orchestrated experience on the world wide web, a jester in tow, and hot on their heels are the hounds of hell, unleashed from the belly of Aghasura himself, through the head atheist in disguise and his unwitting victims.

 

Hill Billy or not, they don't call em Raja for nothin.

 

Fire with Fire, oh my oh my, my bet is on Bhaktivedanta Swami's Raja Bhakta 8 to 1 odds, pm me if you want part of the action, and stay tuned for more mad fun.

 

Hare Krsna

 

 

 

 

 

Aghasura has a tight stranglehold

[theist]

 

This would seem to harmonize everything from my thinking.

 

 

Well thoughtout and well said. My thinking also. Vow means vow.

[Bhakta Devarsi]

 

In SCSMath we have 1st and 2nd initiations. 1st is Hare Nama with the agreement to follow the 4 regs. No fire sacrifice. 2nd is Gayatri initiation with the sacrifice. Then you are a Brahmin. So there is room there to not have to reach the brahminical standards, but still the 4 regs are required. We are initiated to be devotees, not ksatriyas, vaisyas or sudras.

 

Anyhow, if you took a vow to follow the 4 regs and have gone a'hunting, I can't blame you, I have gotten intoxicated, gambled and had illicit sex. An egg or two as well. But I would never consider trying to interpret Guru's words to mean I am released from my vow. I am a sinner and a terrible disciple who has not followed correctly according to my agreement with my Gurudeva. I am truly lower than a worm in stool and am ashamed of myself.

 

What it appears to me, please forgive any offense but I'm speaking from the heart, is that Maya has clouded your judgment and you used Srila Swami Maharaj's desire for a varnashrama college and to have the varnas as part of ISKCON to mean that you are released from your vows. You apparently look for his words to support your conclusions instead of looking for the truth in his words. This is bad for you and I hope you can see that. That is worse than the act of killing and eating the meat. You may act in the capacity of a ksatriya but please don't ignore Srila Swami Maharaj said a devotee is not in the varnas though you play that role. Unless he specifically released you from your vows you are bound to them, no matter what you have worked out in your head. Others that may follow may be bound by different rules surely, but they are not retroactive (unless you can prove otherwise).

 

But that isn't to say you guys don't have a real mission with your DVD. Just misconceptions maybe. I would think the way the varna system should be set up would be for the congregation of lay people who haven't taken initiation like theist, who aren't ready to make those vows. They can be identified as those varnas and participate in the society without being bound to any vows. They would be encouraged to follow surely but no vows. But once one takes Hare Nama initiation, unless a bona fide acharya says otherwise, they should try and follow the four regs as best they can. Hopefully this would keep those that aren't ready for the vows engaged and on the path of bhakti, and those that take the vows would be limited to persons ready for the commitment. Once they take the vows, they are still a ksatriya or whatever their varna was, but they are bound to the vows and considered an aspiring devotee. Then second initiation for those with the inclination for pujari etc service. This would seem to harmonize everything from my thinking.

 

Please consider this with an open heart.

 

Well spoken Prabhu, but consider this one comment,

 

"But I would never consider trying to interpret Guru's words to mean I am released from my vow."

 

That is your flaw, because that was never implied nor inferred, but you took the possibility it might be there anyway and made a pretty nice essay around it, so I take it as the end justifying the means.

 

But still know that in preaching, this is what we must preach to meet those souls with less sukrti, krpa sakti, and or advancement then some of us have, the latest rules and regs, compiled, equal the rules and regs for those initiated in the future, and this would necessitate the authorized proxy initiators to know the candidate quite well according to their conditioned symptoms to assure that the rules and regs given to that person were appropriate thus DVD knowledge a must. From now on. Prabhupada's orders.

 

So we can engage those Ksyatria's less brahminically inclined then such a stalwart like Caturbahu, and all the Vaisya's and Sudras too, and we all start with deep conditioning, so Prabhupada extended his merciful glance to habitual meat eaters and drinkers, just regulate and thus gradually restrict.

 

A house the whole world can live in.

 

Caturbahu das' example of him taking license in his neophyte days was an accidental fall down for sure, as time has obviously wizened him for the wear, and he is right back on the saddle with lesson learned.

 

Hare Krsna

[brajeshwara das]

 

Well spoken Prabhu, but consider this one comment,

 

"But I would never consider trying to interpret Guru's words to mean I am released from my vow."

 

That is your flaw, because that was never implied nor inferred, but you took the possibility it might be there anyway and made a pretty nice essay around it, so I take it as the end justifying the means.

 

But still know that in preaching, this is what we must preach to meet those souls with less sukrti, krpa sakti, and or advancement then some of us have, the latest rules and regs, compiled, equal the rules and regs for those initiated in the future, and this would necessitate the authorized proxy initiators to know the candidate quite well according to their conditioned symptoms to assure that the rules and regs given to that person were appropriate thus DVD knowledge a must. From now on. Prabhupada's orders.

 

So we can engage those Ksyatria's less brahminically inclined then such a stalwart like Caturbahu, and all the Vaisya's and Sudras too, and we all start with deep conditioning, so Prabhupada extended his merciful glance to habitual meat eaters and drinkers, just regulate and thus gradually restrict.

 

A house the whole world can live in.

 

Caturbahu das' example of him taking license in his neophyte days was an accidental fall down for sure, as time has obviously wizened him for the wear, and he is right back on the saddle with lesson learned.

 

Hare Krsna

 

No, he's saying he likes to hunt like Elmer Fudd. Read his posts.

[bhaktatraveler]

You people have gone nuts again. get back to being serious. We haven't the time for this clowning. Though some is rather funny. Remember, short time left.

 

CB-r

[brajeshwara das]

I'd rather think of deer in this way, taking nourishment from Srila Govinda Maharaj's hand.

 

[bhaktatraveler]

 

Wait a minute, why not reduce the reaction by hunting a lower species like duck?

A' hunting we shall go, a' huntng we shall go

High ho the merri-o a' hunting we shall go!

 

No birds or rabbits. Deer or dangerous type criters only....

 

TRANSLATION SB. 6.4.9

By nature’s arrangement, fruits and flowers are considered the food of insects and birds; grass and other legless living entities are meant to be the food of four-legged animals like cows and buffalo; animals that cannot use their front legs as hands are meant to be the food of animals like tigers, which have claws; and four-legged animals like deer and goats, as well as food grains, are meant to be the food of human beings.

 

PURPORT

By nature’s law, or the arrangement of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, one kind of living entity is eatable by other living entities. As mentioned herein, dvi-padam ca catush-padah: the four-legged animals (catush-padah), as well as food grains, are eatables for human beings (dvi-padam). These four-legged animals are those such as deer and goats, not cows, which are meant to be protected. Generally the men of the higher classes of society—the brahmanas, kshatriyas and vaisyas—do not eat meat. Sometimes kshatriyas go to the forest to kill animals like deer because they have to learn the art of killing, and sometimes they eat the animals also. Sudras, too, eat animals such as goats. Cows, however, are never meant to be killed or eaten by human beings. In every sastra, cow killing is vehemently condemned. Indeed, one who kills a cow must suffer for as many years as there are hairs on the body of a cow. Manu-samhita says, pravrittir esha bhutanam nivrittis tu maha-phala: we have many tendencies in this material world, but in human life one is meant to learn how to curb those tendencies. Those who desire to eat meat may satisfy the demands of their tongues by eating lower animals, but they should never kill cows, who are actually accepted as the mothers of human society because they supply milk. The sastra especially recommends, krishi-go-rakshya: the vaisya section of humanity should arrange for the food of the entire society through agricultural activities and should give full protection to the cows, which are the most useful animals because they supply milk to human society.

 

 

CB-r

[bhaktatraveler]

 

Brajeshwara, you shouldn't have shown them that picture. Next time their in Mayapura/Navadvipa they'll try to poach the Math's deer.

 

I do not kill pets. I do not feed, then shoot.

 

CB-r

[brajeshwara das]

 

You still have not answered who is Govinda Maharaja's living siksha guru.

 

CB-r

Ah, points you take out of context are not easily forgotten, are you an elephant? So I'm an ass, you are an elephant, Bhaki-Raj there is what again? I wonder what animal theist and Beggar feel most embodies thier moods. Hmm...

 

My point is was we should all consider ourselves students per Srila Sridhar Maharaj's instructions, that even who we consider Guru have stated they receive siksa from other devotees. I never said anything about "Srila Govinda Maharaj's living siksa Guru". I wouldn't know that, I am certain He listens to Guru wherever He finds Guru. What is you point anyway?

 

Srila Swami Maharaj was Srila Govinda Maharaj's Bhagavad Gita teacher and considered Him a 'dear son'. I'm certain Srila Govinda Maharaj considered Him siksha Guru. Varnashrama is even mentioned in a letter to Srila Govinda Maharaj from Srila Swami Maharaj, thought you would get a kick out of it:

 

 

New Delhi

16 September, 1955

 

His Holiness Sripada Bhakti Sundar Govinda Maharaja

Sri Caitanya Saraswat Math

Kolergunj

P.O. Navadvipa,

Dist. Nadia (W.Beng.)

 

My dear Sripada Govinda Maharaja,

 

This morning I received two copies of your "Gaudiya Darshan'' and I was very glad to see its appearance. When I was at Mathura I heard from Spd. Kesava Maharaja and so also I heard it from Spd Goswami Maharaja that His Holiness Sripada Sridhara Maharaja is going to publish "Gaudiya Darshan'' and today I find it actually in hand. I cannot but offer my congratulations to your holiness. Because I know if anything has been done it is due to your energy. I can understand now why Sripada Sridhara Maharaja bestowed all his mercy upon you. He rightly found in you some dormant energy for future action and we can see that it is now fructifying duly.

 

I have read with great interest your article especially the one which is named as "CHALAR PATHE.'' It is not only very amusing but also instructive. Simple dry philosophical arguments will not be appealing now a days to people in general. They will like to read such articles as written by you with greater relish. In this article I can find out that you have really some parts and in time you can become a great transcendental humorist in the art of journalism. You have complete mercy of your Divine master and you can depend on his blessings for your future improvement. I sincerely wish you all success—Undoubtedly you are now in the highest order of Varnasrama Dharma but we cannot forget that you belong to the category of our affectionate sons. We cannot forget all such filial love for you and when we see that you are improving in all respects it gladdens our heart. I have just written a letter to Sripada Gosvami Maharaja and in that letter the following statements have been carried to him him. The wordings are as follows:-

 

"This day we have received two copies of Gaudiya Darsana from Sripada Sridhara Maharaja's Math at Navadvipa. The starting is very good and I have quite appreciated the endeavour of Sripada Maharaja although very late. It is better late than never. He has a very good assistant in the person of young Govinda Maharaja and I think it is a good attempt.''

 

Your poem on Vasita is also good. All these show that you have good tact and may God help you more and more. Sripada Sridhara Maharaja's article on Gaudiya Darsana is philosophical and if he so desires I can get it translated into English by myself and get it published in the Sri Sajjanatoshani Patrika. I understand that Sripada is now out on pilgrimage and you can let me know his opinion when he comes back or earlier according to your convenience.

 

Hope you are well. Vrindaban wanted to live with me and so he has come here from Calcutta just a few days before. Where is Madhusudana Maharaja? Please convey my dandabats to all the Vaisnavas. With my regards for you all.

 

Yours affectionately,

A.C. Bhaktivedanta

[bhaktatraveler]

 

Ah, points you take out of context are not easily forgotten, are you an elephant? So I'm an ass, you are an elephant, Bhaki-Raj there is what again? I wonder what animal theist and Beggar feel most embodies thier moods. Hmm...

 

My point is was we should all consider ourselves students per Srila Sridhar Maharaj's instructions, that even who we consider Guru have stated they receive siksa from other devotees. I never said anything about "Srila Govinda Maharaj's living siksa Guru". I wouldn't know that, I am certain He listens to Guru wherever He finds Guru. What is you point anyway?

 

Srila Swami Maharaj was Srila Govinda Maharaj's Bhagavad Gita teacher and considered Him a 'dear son'. I'm certain Srila Govinda Maharaj considered Him siksha Guru. Varnashrama is even mentioned in a letter to Srila Govinda Maharaj from Srila Swami Maharaj, thought you would get a kick out of it:

 

 

I thought it was you that somewhere in the depth of this thread made a crack about 'living Guru' And applied missunderstanding from that, to me. Not you?

 

'My point' of my current siksa, is as you have said of Govinda Maharaja. I say, I do the same. That is my siksa.

 

CB-r

[brajeshwara das]

 

I thought it was you that somewhere in the depth of this thread made a crack about 'living Guru' And applied missunderstanding from that, to me. Not you?

 

'My point' of my current siksa, is as you have said of Govinda Maharaja. I say, I do the same. That is my siksa.

 

CB-r

I don't believe that was me, Srila Govinda Maharaj is my diksa Guru. I have no problem where people find or don't find Guru, that is an internal personal thing in my opinion.

[Bhakta Devarsi]

 

How do you reconcile your vows with hunting then?

 

If you weren't in such a defensive and combative mood, you could figure this one out for yourself, but alas.

 

The vow was not to take meat, not to refuse to engage the local Ksyatrias in the hunting required to keep them sharp in a wartime situation.

 

Oh, I forget, you live in Northern California. Its own little bubble, its own little loka, sweet and dandy like cotton candy.

 

Until the government pulls the noose, and all their "dependents" (the whole state and its property) is forclosed upon at the end of a jackboot.

 

Been there done that, warned you about Elmer, but you insist you are in la la land.

 

Listen, hear, THINK, then check to see your thoughts are in line with your Acharya, thus in line with the grace of the Lord. As long as the thinking is backed up by an authority figure, yer good to go, just quote em if ya got em.

 

SB 2.10.20 purport by Srila Prabhupada

"The idea is that the living entity cannot do anything independently. He can simply think of doing something independently, but he cannot act independently. This independence in thinking is there by the grace of the Lord, but the thinking can be given shape by the grace of the Lord, and therefore the common saying is that man proposes and God disposes."

 

Hare Krsna