Regulative Principles Mandatory?

[bhaktatraveler]

 

I don't believe that was me, Srila Govinda Maharaj is my diksa Guru. I have no problem where people find or don't find Guru, that is an internal personal thing in my opinion.

 

Well said, thanks.

 

CB-r

[brajeshwara das]

I'm at peace with Bhakta Raja and whatever he chooses to eat, no problem. But the following is nonsense:

 

 

The vow was not to take meat, not to refuse to engage the local Ksyatrias in the hunting required to keep them sharp in a wartime situation.

It frankly sounds delusional and earlier you had said that his meat-eating was from his neophyte days and forgivable. When shown he still does this activity, you make this huge stretch to justify it somehow. The positive vow he made is negated by the perceived necessity to "to engage the local Ksyatrias in the hunting required to keep them sharp in a wartime situation."

 

Whatever dude.

[bhaktatraveler]

 

Same way we reconcile having unregulated sex with our wives. It's universal.

 

Srila Prabhupada knows my vows and if I stay in them I am fine and dandy, like you said it is personal. You can not decide for me, nor claim to have knowledge of DVD and how Guru will be. None that I have seen on this form have anything good to say about the cosmology of ISKCON in DVD format. Nor have I seen a depth of understanding DVD either.

 

I took diksa as a ksatriya just as Prabhupada explains in 2/14/74 conver.......It's no problem for me, just for all of you.

 

 

Hridayananda: So in our varnasrama college the students that come to our college, they follow the four principles... They follow...

 

Prabhupada: Four principles essential. Essential. But only the sudras or the kshatriyas... Just like kshatriyas, they have to learn how to kill. So practically, they should go to the forest and kill some animal. And if he likes, he can eat also. If he likes, he can eat also.

 

Hridayananda: What he kills.

 

Prabhupada: Yes. But not from the slaughterhouse. Those who are kshatriyas, they can, they’re allowed sometimes to eat meat. It is understood Bhima, Bhima also eating sometimes meat. Bhima. Amongst the Pandavas, only Bhima. Not others. So if the kshatriyas, they want to eat meat, they can be allowed on particular occasions. But they must go to the forest and kill the animal. Not that for meat-eating regular slaughterhouses should be maintained. This is all nonsense, degradation. If you want to eat meat, you go to the forest. And the sudras, they also sometimes eat meat. Or the candalas.

 

 

 

 

Is now Bhima not second born? has he stop being an intimate associate of the Lord? Silly rabbit. Did not Srila Prabhupada use Bhima as the example? a pure devotee meat eater.

 

Bk Devarsi is the only devotee steadfastly agreeing. Sooner or later this is going to fructify just like Srila Prabhupada's preaching in the West did after yrs of work in India. DVD will be the second wave of the Sankirtan movement to envelope the planet.

 

I never agreed to Srila Prabhupada's face to follow as brahman. He knows me as Ksatriya.

 

CB-r

[bhaktatraveler]

 

I'm at peace with Bhakta Raja and whatever he chooses to eat, no problem. But the following is nonsense:

 

 

It frankly sounds delusional and earlier you had said that his meat-eating was from his neophyte days and forgivable. When shown he still does this activity, you make this huge stretch to justify it somehow. The positive vow he made is negated by the perceived necessity to "to engage the local Ksyatrias in the hunting required to keep them sharp in a wartime situation."

 

Whatever dude.

 

 

Evidence is given to you more than enough for an honest devotee.

 

CB-r

[brajeshwara das]

 

 

I never agreed to Srila Prabhupada's face to follow as brahman. He knows me as Ksatriya.

 

CB-r

 

Sorry Prabhu if I was unfair to you. I didn't know Srila Swami Maharaj initiated ksatriya disciples, sudra disciples etc. I thought like SCSMath it was Hari Nama with understanding/agreement to the 4 regs. No one told you to follow the 4 regs then you aren't bound to them.

 

I don't have much contact with ISKCON practices so please forgive me for making the assumption.

[brajeshwara das]

 

Evidence is given to you more than enough for an honest devotee.

 

CB-r

 

I am neither honest nor a devotee but aspiring to become both.

[bhaktatraveler]

 

Sorry Prabhu if I was unfair to you. I didn't know Srila Swami Maharaj initiated ksatriya disciples, sudra disciples etc. I thought like SCSMath it was Hari Nama with understanding/agreement to the 4 regs. No one told you to follow the 4 regs then you aren't bound to them.

 

I don't have much contact with ISKCON practices so please forgive me for making the assumption.

 

 

You convoluted the point. Prabhupada initiated disciple, and accepted them from four varnas. Not the other way around.

 

This DVD is not now, nor has it ever been, accepted by the disciples of Srila Prabhupada as a whole in ISKCON or outside.

 

I'm an enigma, I have slipped through the poison veneer that is ISKCON. I have always been on the outside of their reach. Just like my Guru before me.

 

CB-r

[Bhakta Devarsi]

 

No nothing legal. My wife kicked me out and I almost got remarried then went back with my wife and Ms. Bhaktin Almost, "banned" me from living in Alachua. I was actually born and raised in Florida and have always liked that part. Now back with the family a long ways off.

 

Too bad, but enjoy Gaura Purnima wherever you are, Sri Mahaprabhu's mercy has you where you are for the good, strange as that sometimes appears, especially as I am thinking, oh, here is one of the first real humans in Vaisnava dress I have met in a long time and he seems familiar with my neck of the woods, etc.

 

Hari Bol

[Bhakta Devarsi]

 

Court jesters need to be quiet sometimes too.

 

CB-r

 

Perhaps we need to better arrange the kingdom to accomodate and contain the wide variety of foolish mishaps we engage in as we stumble toward our goal of Prema of Krsna.

 

So far it seems like lemons and lemonade, but that fits the mood of separation and its bittersweet nature.

 

Still we should pray for the increase in more meaningful service, knowing it will come being our faith to fuel the prayer.

 

Stumbling along while Praying I won't stumble.

 

ys

 

B.Mark

[bhaktatraveler]

 

Perhaps we need to better arrange the kingdom to accomodate and contain the wide variety of foolish mishaps we engage in as we stumble toward our goal of Prema of Krsna.

 

So far it seems like lemons and lemonade, but that fits the mood of separation and its bittersweet nature.

 

Still we should pray for the increase in more meaningful service, knowing it will come being our faith to fuel the prayer.

 

Stumbling along while Praying I won't stumble.

 

ys

 

B.Mark

 

Encouragement, I almost forgot how it feels, so warm and safe to be me.

 

Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das Bhakti-raja

[Bhakta Devarsi]

Cpnversation 3/14/74 Vrndaban

 

 

Prabhupada: Yes, yes. Our main aim is how to give them Krishna consciousness.

 

Prabhupada: Four regulative principles compulsory.

Hridayananda: Yes.

 

Prabhupada: But if some of the kshatriya or the sudras, they want, so that is our prescription: “Go to the forest and kill some animal and eat that.” That’s all.

 

The above quotes are pulled in context from the below portion of the 3.14/74 conversation.

 

Prabhupada: No, the thing is that actually, at the present moment, they are sudras or less than sudras. They are not human beings. The whole population of the world. It doesn’t matter whether it is western or eastern. That is the position. So unless they are trained up, so the society’s already in chaos, and it will go on still more in chaos, chaos. It will be hell. How people will live? And these rascals are being elected as government men, and they’re only making budget how to tax. So one side, there is no rain; one side, there is no rice, especially in India; and one side, heavy tax. So they’ll be all confused. They have already become confused. So in the confusion state it will be very difficult to make them Krishna conscious. Therefore preliminary help should be given.

 

Vishnujana: Preliminary.

 

Prabhupada: Yes. That they should not be in chaos and confusion.

Otherwise, how the brain will work?

 

Vishnujana: Yes. No one can give rapt attention without peace of mind.

 

Prabhupada: Yes, yes. Our main aim is how to give them Krishna consciousness. But if they are already disturbed in every respect, then how they’ll take it? Therefore we are taking these subjects, to help him to come to the Krishna consciousness. And this is the method—varnasrama.

 

Hridayananda: So just to clarify, Prabhupada, I want to make sure I have it very clear, that if someone comes to our varnasrama college, even though this may be preliminary help, in general—you’ve made some exceptions—but in general, when they come to our college, they have to follow the four regulative principles, also learn something about Bhagavad-gita and then, side by side, they learn a...

 

Prabhupada: Four regulative principles compulsory.

 

Hridayananda: Yes.

 

Prabhupada: But if some of the kshatriya or the sudras, they want, so that is our prescription: “Go to the forest and kill some animal and eat that.” That’s all. You can kill one boar. Some disturbing elements, you can kill. You can kill some tiger. Like that. Learn to kill. No nonviolence. Learn to kill. Here also, as soon as you’ll find, the kshatriya, a thief, a rogue, unwanted element in the society, kill him. That’s all. Finish. Kill him. Bas. Finished. So other will see, “Oh, the ruler is very strong.” And others will... One killing will be lesson for many hundreds and thousands. No mercy. “Kill him.” That’s all. That was the system. In Kashmir about hundred years ago. If somebody has stolen, cut his hand. Bas. He cannot steal any more. So one cutting hand means finish. In that part of the world, no more stealing

 

Yaduvara: How would the kshatriyas kill the animals?

 

Prabhupada: Eh?

 

Yaduvara: How would they kill? With guns or bow and arrow?

 

Prabhupada: That, as it is suitable. It is not that because the kshatriyas were killing by bows and arrows formerly, you have to continue that. That is another foolishness. If you have got... If you can kill easily by guns, take that gun. Just like formerly, parivraja, Caitanya Mahaprabhu walked on the street. There was no aeroplane or... Or he did not use it. Does it mean that I shall have to follow that? I must take the jet engine. If it is available. If somebody criticizes, “Oh, Caitanya Mahaprabhu walked on leg and you are travelling in the jet plane?” Shall I have to take that ideal? These are rascaldom. When you have to work, you have to work with the greatest facility. That’s all. Now I have got the facility of the talking in microphone, and... So why should I not take it? It will be recorded. It will be heard by so many others. I am speaking to four, five men. It can be heard by a big crowd of four hundred men.