Bhakti or Shuddha Bhakti?

[Bhakta Devarsi]

Hare Krsna

 

Recently, a devotee on this forum told me that whenever a real Gaudiya Vaisnava uses the word "Bhakti" they are only speaking of Pure Bhakti or Shuddha Bhakti, or else they would use other words to qualify it, like Jnana-misra-bhakti, or Mixed Bhakti, etc. He used so many arguements to back up his conception, and it flat out made no sense to me intuitively or logically, and I said so.

 

Now here we have HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami apparently caught in the act!! Is he a "real" Gaudiya Vaisnava?

 

Purport: Adi 4:21-22

 

In the Caitanya-caritamrta three kinds of devotional service are described-namely, bhakti (ordinary devotional service), suddha-bhakti (pure devotional service) and viddha-bhakti (mixed devotional service).

When devotional service is executed with some material purpose, involving fruitive activities, mental speculations or mystic yoga, it is called mixed or adulterated devotional service. Besides bhakti-yoga, the Bhagavad-gita also describes karma-yoga, jnana-yoga and dhyana-yoga. Yoga means linking with the Supreme Lord, which is possible only through devotion. Fruitive activities ending in devotional service, philosophical speculation ending in devotional service, and the practice of mysticism ending in devotional service are known respectively as karma-yoga, jnana-yoga and dhyana-yoga. But such devotional service is adulterated by the three kinds of material activities.

For those grossly engaged in identifying the body as the self, pious activity, or karma-yoga, is recommended. For those who identify the mind with the self, philosophical speculation, or jnana-yoga, is recommended. But devotees standing on the spiritual platform have no need of such material conceptions of adulterated devotion. Adulterated devotional service does not directly aim for love of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Therefore service performed strictly in conformity with the revealed scriptures is better than such viddha-bhakti because it is free from all kinds of material contamination. It is executed in Krsna consciousness, solely to please the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

Those who are spontaneously devoted to the Lord and have no aims for material gain are called attracted devotees. They are spontaneously attracted to the service of the Lord, and they follow in the footsteps of self-realized souls. Their pure devotion (suddha-bhakti), manifested from pure love of Godhead, surpasses the regulative principles of the authoritative scriptures. Sometimes loving ecstasy transcends regulative principles; such ecstasy, however, is completely on the spiritual platform and cannot be imitated. The regulative principles help ordinary devotees rise to the stage of perfect love of Godhead. Pure love for Krsna is the perfection of pure devotion, and pure devotional service is identical with spontaneous devotional service.

Flawless execution of regulative principles is exhibited in the Vaikuntha planets. By strictly executing these principles one can be elevated to the Vaikuntha planets. But spontaneous pure loving service is found in Krsnaloka alone.

[bhaktatraveler]

 

Hare Krsna

 

Recently, a devotee on this forum told me that whenever a real Gaudiya Vaisnava uses the word "Bhakti" they are only speaking of Pure Bhakti or Shuddha Bhakti, or else they would use other words to qualify it, like Jnana-misra-bhakti, or Mixed Bhakti, etc. He used so many arguements to back up his conception, and it flat out made no sense to me intuitively or logically, and I said so.

 

Now here we have HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami apparently caught in the act!! Is he a "real" Gaudiya Vaisnava?

 

Purport: Adi 4:21-22

 

In the Caitanya-caritamrta three kinds of devotional service are described-namely, bhakti (ordinary devotional service), suddha-bhakti (pure devotional service) and viddha-bhakti (mixed devotional service).<?xml:namespace prefix = o />

When devotional service is executed with some material purpose, involving fruitive activities, mental speculations or mystic yoga, it is called mixed or adulterated devotional service. Besides bhakti-yoga, the Bhagavad-gita also describes karma-yoga, jnana-yoga and dhyana-yoga. Yoga means linking with the Supreme Lord, which is possible only through devotion. Fruitive activities ending in devotional service, philosophical speculation ending in devotional service, and the practice of mysticism ending in devotional service are known respectively as karma-yoga, jnana-yoga and dhyana-yoga. But such devotional service is adulterated by the three kinds of material activities.

For those grossly engaged in identifying the body as the self, pious activity, or karma-yoga, is recommended. For those who identify the mind with the self, philosophical speculation, or jnana-yoga, is recommended. But devotees standing on the spiritual platform have no need of such material conceptions of adulterated devotion. Adulterated devotional service does not directly aim for love of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Therefore service performed strictly in conformity with the revealed scriptures is better than such viddha-bhakti because it is free from all kinds of material contamination. It is executed in Krsna consciousness, solely to please the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

Those who are spontaneously devoted to the Lord and have no aims for material gain are called attracted devotees. They are spontaneously attracted to the service of the Lord, and they follow in the footsteps of self-realized souls. Their pure devotion (suddha-bhakti), manifested from pure love of Godhead, surpasses the regulative principles of the authoritative scriptures. Sometimes loving ecstasy transcends regulative principles; such ecstasy, however, is completely on the spiritual platform and cannot be imitated. The regulative principles help ordinary devotees rise to the stage of perfect love of Godhead. Pure love for Krsna is the perfection of pure devotion, and pure devotional service is identical with spontaneous devotional service.

Flawless execution of regulative principles is exhibited in the Vaikuntha planets. By strictly executing these principles one can be elevated to the Vaikuntha planets. But spontaneous pure loving service is found in Krsnaloka alone.

 

Pure DVD from the CC and they say not for us? It is every where in our books, action(DVD) in devotional service(bhakti) Your Mama

 

CB-r

[Beggar]

Once again, I will enter the fray. Aspects of DVD are what color is your cloth, are you married or single, what kind of occupation do you perform to maintain your family? If someone is not authorized to were the cloth of a sannyasi then it will be create a disturbance in society. Therefore devotional society in the Gaudiya-Saraswat line is organized by DVD to assist individuals with their spirtual advancement. It is part of the bottle that carries the nectarean beverage of Krsna bhakti. So our goal is Krsna bhakti and we can understand that within our practice of bhakti under the divine guidance of Sri guru there lies the potential for stages of bhava and prema. These levels of devotional ecstacy may be very far off but this is what every jiva soul is hankering for, real ananda, bilss and happiness. Madhuram, Madhuram, Madhuram. Krsna is sweet, sweet, sweet. Therefore the process which leads to Krsna realization is also sweet, but only if we keep Krsna in the center. DVD is not to be kept in the center, even if many are doing a dis-service out of ignorance by disregarding DVD, Prabhupada's instructions on the matter etc. Krsna is the root, under all circumstances, at all times, eternally. Love of God is the goal and this is the real message of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and His followers. We have been told that the Holy Name of Krsna is even more merciful than Krsna. So there is some hope even for us. DVD outside the context of all these things is dry and tasteless. DVD is external yet still important for our devotional lives and preaching. According to Srila Sridhar Maharaja, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur would say, "real religion means proper adjustment". So all these things must be properly adjusted and harmonized. To fail to do so, is to also create a disturbance in devotional society in the name of the truth.

[brajeshwara das]

 

Once again, I will enter the fray. Aspects of DVD are what color is your cloth, are you married or single, what kind of occupation do you perform to maintain your family? If someone is not authorized to were the cloth of a sannyasi then it will be create a disturbance in society. Therefore devotional society in the Gaudiya-Saraswat line is organized by DVD to assist individuals with their spirtual advancement. It is part of the bottle that carries the nectarean beverage of Krsna bhakti. So our goal is Krsna bhakti and we can understand that within our practice of bhakti under the divine guidance of Sri guru there lies the potential for stages of bhava and prema. These levels of devotional ecstacy may be very far off but this is what every jiva soul is hankering for, real ananda, bilss and happiness. Madhuram, Madhuram, Madhuram. Krsna is sweet, sweet, sweet. Therefore the process which leads to Krsna realization is also sweet, but only if we keep Krsna in the center. DVD is not to be kept in the center, even if many are doing a dis-service out of ignorance by disregarding DVD, Prabhupada's instructions on the matter etc. Krsna is the root, under all circumstances, at all times, eternally. Love of God is the goal and this is the real message of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and His followers. We have been told that the Holy Name of Krsna is even more merciful than Krsna. So there is some hope even for us. DVD outside the context of all these things is dry and tasteless. DVD is external yet still important for our devotional lives and preaching. According to Srila Sridhar Maharaja, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur would say, "real religion means proper adjustment". So all these things must be properly adjusted and harmonized. To fail to do so, is to also create a disturbance in devotional society in the name of the truth.

 

Nice.

[Bhakta Devarsi]

Of course it is kept in the center until no longer needed.

 

Regs first, atma nivedanam second.

 

Regs given by Guru.

 

Follow Guru.

 

This is the proper adjustment that was already made!

 

All this talk of things higher than our first steady bhava is premature nonsense.

 

And if a Bhakta is awarded raganuga sadhana and is following in the footsteps of those residents of Vrndaban who have spontaneous loving attachment and service (ragatmikas), that Bhakta will discuss these higher topics of aspiration and realization in private with other renunciates, and not in public where there rejection of the basics (DVD) might confuse a beginner.

 

This would never happen, except for around a bunch of pretenders.

 

Hare Krsna

[Shakti-Fan]

 

 

Krsna Talk: A Particle of Dust

Questions and Answers with Swami B. G. Narasingha

 

Question: What should be the highest aspiration of a Gaudiya Vaishnava? Should one aspire after the position of a manjari who can enter the groves of Vrindavana to serve Radha and Krsna? What should be our aspiration?

Answer: We are to conceive of the plane of divine lila or pastimes of the Supreme Lord as infinitely greater than we are. In that subjective plane of reality all things animate and inanimate are superior to us. We are units of finite consciousness, yet we falsely think that we can demand a position in the highest plane of divinity. It is ludicrous. It is heresy to think such.

We want so many things of the higher plane, but we are not fit for that service. We are not ready to pay the price of the highest service, but we think that we are somehow or other qualified for that. We have heard that some position is there in the manjari section which is most desirable, but we think that leaving all else aside we can simply jump to that position or march through that world as a soldier and conquer our objective. But it is not like that.

First we must qualify: "first deserve, then desire." We want not the position of the master but of the most negligible. First we must aspire for the most negligible position in the subjective plane of divinity, not for the highest position. What is that most negligible position? It is this:

ayi nanda-tanuja kinkaram patitam mam visame bhavambudhau

krpaya tava pada-pankaja sthita-dhuli-sadrsam vicintaya

"O son of Nanda Maharaja, I am your eternal servant, yet because of my own karma, I have fallen into this terrible ocean of birth and death. Please accept this fallen soul and consider me a particle of dust at your holy lotus feet."

The most negligible position one can hold in the relativity of the Absolute Truth is that of a particle of dust in the infinite world of lila. Such is to be the highest aspiration of any Gaudiya Vaishnava in this world. We are not to aspire in the beginning for the service of others ó we must first aspire to be accepted into that domain by the Lord and His personal associates.

If we say that we want the highest, it is paramount to sense gratification. "We want" means sense gratification. "I want this, I want that", it is sense gratification. It is not for His pleasure, this "I want, I want" mentality. It is better, for His (Krsnaís) pleasure, to prepare oneís self in this life to become a particle of dust or a blade of grass in that higher plane of infinite lila. That is more desirable and such a noble desire will not go unnoticed by the residents of that plane.

asam aho carana-renu-jusam aham syam

vrndavane kim ape gulma-latausadhinam

ya dustyajam svajanam arya-patham ca hitva

bhejur mukunda-padavim srutibhit vimrgyam

"The gopis of Vrindavana gave up their husbands, children, and families who are very difficult to renounce, and sacrificed even their religious principles to take shelter of the lotus feet of Krsna, which are sought after even by the Vedas themselves. O! Grant me the fortune to take birth as a blade of grass in Vrndavana, so that I may take the dust of the lotus feet of those great souls upon my head." (Bhag. 10.47.61)

To become a blade of grass in the plane of the infinite is no small achievement, what to speak of seeing or associating with Krsna directly. It is no small thing. Such is shown to us by Uddhava, the intimate friend of Krsna. And taking it one step further, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu has shown us that the position held by a particle of dust at the lotus feet of Krsna is the most desirable.

To achieve the most negligible position in the infinite will require the highest qualifications possible in this present plane. The highest qualifications attainable here for the sadhaka (devotee) may earn him the most negligible position in the higher subjective world of lila. It is not a cheap thing.

We must become a slave to His (Krsnaís) will. Then it may be possible that we are taken there by the higher agents of that plane. Otherwise, it is heresy to think that I will get that higher position by my own endeavor. Our siksa-guru, Srila B.R. Sridhara Deva Goswami Maharaja used to call such a mentality, ëwild goose chasing.í In reality any aspiration that has no basis in the concept of divine slavery has no practical application in the pastimes of the Supreme Lord. Smarana, meditation on lila, and so many other things of the sahajiya school are not the qualifications to be admitted there. Only surrender is necessary, the surrender of a slave.

When the necessity arises in the divine lilas, then the qualified slave of divinity is admitted to that arena and no others. Without surrender, without the slaveís mentality, we are not qualified for the higher service. So that should be the aspiration of one who understands the nature of the transcendental world ó let me become the slave of the Lord.

aslisya va pada-ratam pinastu mam

adarsanam marma-hatam karotu va

yatha tatha va vidadhatu lampato

mat-prana-nathas tu sa eva naparah

"Krishna may embrace me in love or trample me under His feet. He may break my heart by hiding Himself from me. Let that debauchee do whatever he likes, but He will always be the only Lord of my life."

This is the slave mentality "I am His slave ó His slave in divine love. He is free to do anything and everything as He wishes, I am His slave." But we are not ready to accept that position and that is why we are not qualified for participation in the highest lilas of the Lord.

There are many devotees and even sannyasis and babajis who go on with manjari-seva meditations and other things of that section, when not even the slightest trace of the real qualifications are found in them. Such persons become mundane women in their next life. They are never promoted to the plane of divinity through the process of imitation.

Srila Gaura Kishora dasa Babaji, the guru of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura, used to say, "Simply by entering the maternity room and imitating the sounds of labor one will not give birth to a child. Many events are necessary before that."

The plane of infinite lila is so charming that even the particle of dust there is worshipable for us. How then shall we approach that plane? Pujala raga-patha gaurava-bange ó the plane of the highest raga (lila) must always be kept above our heads. With the plane of higher lila above our heads we shall march on, tad dasa-dasa-dasanam dasatvam dehi me prabhu. I am the servant of the servant, of the servant of the Lordís servant. I want such a position and nothing else. That should be our approach.

This sloka "pujala raga-patha gaurava-bange" was composed by Srila Saraswati Thakura, the guru of our Guru Maharaja Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, and it was his desire that this position be preached, not temporarily, but for all time, in all places, in all circumstances, and in very nook and corner of the universe. That was the mission of Srila Saraswati Thakura. He came to fight with all misconceptions about the Absolute Truthóhe came to establish the path of divine love, divine slavery.

Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura could not tolerate it when the higher subject matter was dealt with inappropriately. And what did he consider ëinappropriateí? That the topic of lila was taken to the public eye ó this should not be done. Why? Saraswati Thakura considered such as aparadha, an offense against the Lord of love. Invasion of privacy; to take the higher topic of lila to the public is an offense. In the time of Saraswati Thakura such was never the indulgence of any member of the Gaudiya Matha, nor did any of his bona fide disciples venture in that way after his disappearance.

We have heard many narrations from our Guardians (gurus) that exemplify how much regard Saraswati Thakura had for the higher plane of divinity and how ever so carefully he dealt with that plane. From Srila Sridhar Maharaja we once heard that Saraswati Thakura did not allow his disciples to read (study and discuss) such higher books as Govinda-lilamrtam, Stava-kusumanjali, Ujjvala-nilamani, and even certain portions of Caitanya-caritamrta wherein the lila of Radha Krsna is discussed. Whenever Saraswati Thakura heard that someone was reading those books, he took it that an offense is being committed by interfering in the higher lilas. So if such a measure of caution is given by one who on one hand was the most dynamic and progressive preacher of Krsna consciousness in the 20th century, and on the other hand so cautious in dealing with the higher lilas, then how much caution should we, the fallen souls, exercise when approaching such matters? It is only logical that we should follow his example and exercise extreme caution.

The most profound example of the mood in which Saraswati Thakura approached divinity was related to us by Srila B.P. Puri Goswami Maharaja as follows: "At the close, before his entrance into his eternal pastimes, in the morning he requested Srimad Bhakti Raksaka Sridhara Maharaja to sing ëSri Rupa Manjari-padaí of Sri Narottama dasa Thakura, and Naveen Krsna Prabhu to sing Srila Bhaktivinode Thakuraís ëTuha daya sagara tarayite prani.í This was the commentary on Siksastaka. After giving this instruction to sing, Sri Srila Prabhupada began to repeat his famous counsel: ëImplicit obedience to the precepts laid down by Srila Rupa Goswami through the medium of the spiritual master is the wealth of our devotions.í In this instruction, he outlined the true method of our devotional practices as well as the real disciplic succession. Furthermore, in hearing the song of Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura (tuya daya echana parama adara), Sri Srila Prabhupada clasped his hands to his forehead and profuse tears of humility rolled down his cheeks. These personal gestures reminded us of our lamentable plight in not having any attraction for the holy name."

If you want the highest position, then take this example. Keep the lotus feet of Sri Rupa Goswami (Sri Rupa Manjari) on your head as your supreme wealth and cultivate with every atom of your existence great humility and attachment for the holy name of Krsna. This is the highest aspiration of a Gaudiya Vaishnava.

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[gHari]

It will be yet another useless trivial squabble over words with a juggler. Reference "Puffed-Up" thread and save yourself the pain; soon you will be reading aparadha against AC Bhaktivedanta by one not fit to groom his dog, let alone divine on sastra.

[brajeshwara das]

 

It will be yet another useless trivial squabble over words with a jugglar. Reference "Puffed-Up" thread and save yourself the pain; soon you will be reading aparadha against AC Bhaktivedanta by one not fit to groom his dog, let alone divine on sastra.

 

Ah, here is good advice

[bhaktatraveler]

 

It will be yet another useless trivial squabble over words with a juggler. Reference "Puffed-Up" thread and save yourself the pain; soon you will be reading aparadha against AC Bhaktivedanta by one not fit to groom his dog, let alone divine on sastra.

 

Who? Where? When? What? How? I must have missed it. Poster or source?

 

Do I know you ghari? are you here in Alachua? I do know a Gaura Hari, is it you?

 

Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das B-r

[brajeshwara das]

Relax, Prabhu. I believe I'm the one not fit to groom his dog

[gHari]

No. I ain't in Alachua. Yet.

 

I see, another humility contest - well, I am not fit to groom the flea on Prabhupada's dog.

[bija]

 

I see, another humility contest... gHari

I consider myself fit to clean up the dog's doo doo.

[gHari]

 

I consider myself fit to clean up the doo doo.

So puffed-up!

[brajeshwara das]

 

So puffed-up!

I'm a worm in the stool of the dog that barks at Prabhupad's dog.

[gHari]

LOL - not that I'm given to cliche. But thanks for the chuckle.

[Beggar]

I am lower than a microbe in the digestive system of a worm in the stool of an offender to Prabhupada!

[brajeshwara das]

 

I am lower than a microbe in the digestive system of a worm in the stool of an offender to Prabhupada!

 

 

I am lower than whatever is lower than a microbe in the digestive system of a worm in the stool of an offender to Prabhupada!

 

I remember hearing of someone saying to Srila Swami Maharaj "I am the most fallen" and him saying "you aren't the most anything!"