Should Christians be friends with Hindus/Hare Krishnas/etc.?

[theist]

Devotee: Prabhupäda? Does Lord Jesus Christ appear in the spiritual sky with the body he manifested on the earth?

Prabhupäda: Yes. Otherwise how there can be resurrection? Ordinary body cannot be resurrected. He appeared in his spiritual body, certainly. Jesus Christ told, if I remember, that "Lord, excuse these persons," who were crucifying him. Is it not? He knew that "These rascals, they are killing me, but... They are offending certainly. So they do not know that I cannot be killed, but they are thinking that they are killing." You see? But that was offensive, therefore he begged Lord to be excused because God cannot excuse to the offenders of the devotee. He can excuse one who is offender to God, but if somebody is offender to the devotee, God never excuses. Therefore he prayed for them. That is devotee's qualification. He prays for everyone, even of his enemy. And he could not be killed. That he knew. But those rascals, they thought they were killing Jesus Christ.

[bija]

 

yes .. as are many Vaisnava sannyasis who are also broad and open in their understandings. I was told by a Vaisnava Sannyasi from India that Swami Bede Dayananda (Fr. Bede Griffiths) was reading Caitanya Caritamrta and Srimad Bhagavatam in the year or two before his passing. The reality is that Merton and many Catholic religious had no real exposure to vaisnava cult. quote by herservant

 

Yes...in Father Louis' (Thomas Merton) Asian Journal he mentioned Sri Caitanya briefly in only two paragraphs. The philosophy is so deep that I am sure Merton would have loved it. It is really interesting about Father Bede, I never knew this. I read onetime a theology graduates thesis on Father Bede, and some of his Bhagavad Gita translation. It appears his understandings were coming from the Advaita school. But strangely enough I could still see Personalism in his thought. Which surely comes from his Catholic understandings. So this is very interesting that he was reading Caitanya Caritamrta and the Bhagavatam in his later years. Surely he was a great soul who loved God.

 

 

For me .. these two (catholic and gaudiya) need to see each other as long lost brothers .. and recognizing each other, embrace and weep tears of joy. quote by herservant

 

I have also found these to be complimentary. I am no longer a practicing catholic but feel closer to Jesus since coming in contact with GaurangaKrsna consciousness. I have not read alot about catholic monks who lived the renounced order in India. But am very interested and would love to know more of this. Especially the path of mysticism and contemplative way of life. The Gaudiya philosophy is appealing because it allows for internal life and development of spiritual emotion. Something I am sure that is also developed internally in the practicing contemplative catholic.

 

Peace be with you.

[bija]

 

PAMHO Bija !

Alas, not many do that. My Prabhupada disciple friend would never ever say all glories to Lord Shiva. He'll say, oh don't say that!! lol! And he's a 30 years plus disciple!

He would tell me - "I'll pray for you to Krisna" and I'd reply - "I'll pray for you to Lord Shiva!" and he'll say -"I knew you were going to say that!" and we both would have a good laugh!quote by yk

 

Actually I am sure I am not as pure a follower as your friend. Possibly as love for Krsna grows in the heart we enter deeper into the path we have chosen. I think sometimes the motivation of people such as your friend is compassion. That they have found a rare treasure in their heart. And they are so full of love that they wish to share it with others, out of compassion. In the Gaudiya tradition descending from Srila Prabhupada, there is a real preaching zeal. And at a deeper level I know this is motivated by love and compassion. This is where I would consider your friend a much purer follower of Srila Prabhupada than myself.

 

I live and practice my spiritual life reasonably solo here. And do not have great desires for spreading Krsna consciousness. So I consider this a shortcoming. Even in some buddhist schools they speak of compassionate heart. Where once enlightenment is tasted, the goal is to raise others also. Where as my mood is more to focus on personal spiritual life and honor others, and allow room for their own growth in due time. To spread the good news more by simple example (attempting to anyway). So in this sense my methods are a little different than many devotees. So really I place devotees such as your friend on a higher platform than myself, due to their love and compassion.

 

The particular mood of each devotee is special and not so black and white. In many ways I am a universalist, and have faith in God that he will raise up each soul in due course to go Back Home. There is many reasons for my motivations which I cannot go into here. One of the main factors is harmony. I think your Hare Krsna friend is special devotee.

[bija]

Really I do not feel qualified to take on the preaching mood. To tell others what God actually is, is not something I am comfortable with. Discovering my own relationship with God is a personal thing and it is not easy for me to explain to others what absolute truth. Maybe if compassion blossomed more in my heart these inhibitions would not be such a deciding factor for me.

 

It is interesting to note 'guestJustAsking's' mood in his initial posts. I do not think his preaching mood is based on pure compassion. This is important to note. His approach is possibly more fanatical and sectarian, than based on love. But for the advanced soul I do not think such negative motivations are the catalyst for preaching. How to balance all these things within and to raise oneself to a higher platform is healthy for spiritual life. So with higher vision, the motivations for preaching can be pure and spotless (based on, compassion and love for fallen souls).

[HerServant]

 

Yes...in Father Louis' (Thomas Merton) Asian Journal he mentioned Sri Caitanya briefly in only two paragraphs. The philosophy is so deep that I am sure Merton would have loved it. It is really interesting about Father Bede, I never knew this. I read onetime a theology graduates thesis on Father Bede, and some of his Bhagavad Gita translation. It appears his understandings were coming from the Advaita school. But strangely enough I could still see Personalism in his thought. Which surely comes from his Catholic understandings. So this is very interesting that he was reading Caitanya Caritamrta and the Bhagavatam in his later years. Surely he was a great soul who loved God.

 

I have also found these to be complimentary. I am no longer a practicing catholic but feel closer to Jesus since coming in contact with GaurangaKrsna consciousness. I have not read alot about catholic monks who lived the renounced order in India. But am very interested and would love to know more of this. Especially the path of mysticism and contemplative way of life. The Gaudiya philosophy is appealing because it allows for internal life and development of spiritual emotion. Something I am sure that is also developed internally in the practicing contemplative catholic.

 

Peace be with you.

 

I am a practicing catholic but I don't take advantage of the sacrament of confession nearly enough. Yet, I am deeply attracted to Gaudiya Vaisnavism. The Vaisnava perspective has illumined the great depth in catholicism. For example, we have many saints teaching us to consecrate the smallest and most ordinary activities of our daily lives to God. St. Teresa of Jesus (the Little Flower) is an example. Gaudiya Vaisnavism is preaching the same with but with the depth of philosphical principles that accompany this "consecration". Therefore, when I chant the rosary and meditate on the mysteries, I am coming in contact with Mary's rasa. I did not understand the right approach before contacting Vaisnavism.

 

Therefore, Srila Prabhupada has given me the greatest gift.

[theist]

To the nice spirit posting as Her Servant. I have a feeling you are long aware of this snippet from a letter to Sivananda in April of 68 in which case it's posted for others but if it is new to you I am sure it will bring you joy.

 

 

Regarding the Christian's Trinity, I believe it is called God, the Holy Ghost, and the son. Person in Krishna Consciousness accepts this by the name Visnu, Paramatma, and Jiva. God is a Person, the holy spirit or the supersoul is a person, and the living entity is also a person. Also, Mary is the representation of the energy of God. Either as internal energy Radharani or as external energy Durga, the energy of Godhead can be considered the mother of the living entities. But there is no clash between the Bible and the Vedas, simply some people formulate their personal ideas and cause quarrelings. Nobody can say the Bible was meant for the same class of men as the Bhagavad-gita. And Bhagavad-gita is the ABC's of spiritual knowledge. Beyond that is Srimad-Bhagavatam. How great Srimad-Bhagavatam is nobody can imagine. And beyond that is Caitanya Caritamrta. But beginning from the Bible or Koran, on up the principle remains the same. Just like beginning from the pocket dictionary, up

 

Jaya Yeshua! Jaya Krsna!

[HerServant]

 

It is really interesting about Father Bede, I never knew this. I read onetime a theology graduates thesis on Father Bede, and some of his Bhagavad Gita translation. It appears his understandings were coming from the Advaita school. But strangely enough I could still see Personalism in his thought. Which surely comes from his Catholic understandings. So this is very interesting that he was reading Caitanya Caritamrta and the Bhagavatam in his later years. Surely he was a great soul who loved God.

..

 

.. I have not read alot about catholic monks who lived the renounced order in India. But am very interested and would love to know more of this. Especially the path of mysticism and contemplative way of life. The Gaudiya philosophy is appealing because it allows for internal life and development of spiritual emotion. Something I am sure that is also developed internally in the practicing contemplative catholic.

 

Peace be with you.

 

Yes. I was told directly by the Sannyasi that gave Fr. Bede the Vaisnava literature. Also, it is not know that Fr. Bede blessed and concecrated a murti of Jesus and of Mary and gave them as gifts to the HK temple at New Vrndavan ! The murtis, at least one was on the altar with Radha and Krsna in New Vrndavan for sometime. Then all of the attacks and contraversies and falldowns occurred. I don't know the details. I was not there at the time, but was told the stories by devotees who were.

 

His Holiness also told me of his conversations with Fr. Bede and found Fr. Bede VERY interested in this branch of "Hinduism".

 

I can also say, the in the Ashram at Shantivanam, Fr. Bede established as part of daily prayer, the chanting of the maha mantra in the form:

 

Hare Christa Hare Christa Christa Christa Hare Hare Hare Yesu Hare Yesu Yesu Yesu Hare Hare ..

 

If I am not mistaken this is still chanted there in Shantivanam today.

 

For Fr. Bede, due to his personal devotion to Jesus, the study of advaita philosophy did not challenge his faith. This was not the case of Abishiktananda (Fr. Henri LeSaux). Abishiktananda wrote of a personal crisis in his faith because he could not fully reconcile being "Hindu" and being "Catholic". But for Fr. Bede, there was not this problem.

[bija]

Thank you for sharing a little on how you chant the rosary. Just recently I was reading a similar thing about chanting rosary. I think it was from John Paul Second. There is much similarity in japa and meditating on pastimes of the Lord. In my own meditations I have not entered deeply into such practice. But daily am working toward this type of meditation. I am sure such meditation in practice (with rosary) is so special. A deep spiritual practice. Promoting love of God in the heart.

 

I have encountered similarly from Srila Prabhupada's teachings. And my appreciation of catholicism has grown by his grace. I think from having some contact with Jesus since birth he will always remain in my heart. Actually on my small altar here I have his image with the sacred heart. This image is my earliest recollection of Christ. I hope to meet him. The perfect human being.

 

Often on the forums I have read criticism of catholocism. But I am sure if they new the depths of it's internal mysticism, such critics would see great similarities rather than difference. I guess only those who have had the grace to see internal life will understand this, otherwise only externals will be prominent.

 

Some have debated on the forum recently that Srila Prabhupada was only being diplomatic when referring to Jesus. But I know this is not true, for he was an advanced soul, who was seeing things much deeper than the external platform.

 

And I agree with you...I am also deeply attracted to Gaudiya Vaisnavism. It's depth of personalism is appealing. To hear of God's (Krsna's) qualities is pleasing to the heart. Within the tradition there is a real treasure which many in the world may possibly not have guessed is there.

[bija]

 

For Fr. Bede, due to his personal devotion to Jesus, the study of advaita philosophy did not challenge his faith.This was not the case of Abishiktananda (Fr. Henri LeSaux). Abishiktananda wrote of a personal crisis in his faith because he could not fully reconcile being "Hindu" and being "Catholic". But for Fr. Bede, there was not this problem. quote by herservant

Yes. I could see this great gift he had from reading the thesis on him (from the Bede Griffith website). This mood is something I wish to develop also. This type of spirituality is most appealing.

 

Did Abishiktananda (Fr. Henri LeSaux) enter more the hindu tradition and leave some of his christianity behind? Whereas as Father Bede remained reconcilled in his christian faith.

 

Also could you share who was the sannyasi who gave Father Bede the Caitanya Caritamrta? I would love to know this.

[sanatan]

Fr. Bede Griffiths writings I've read, and recommend:

 

Vedanta and Christian Faith

 

The Cosmic Revelation

 

Essential Writings (a compendium)

 

He was a great soul.

 

I didn't understand the Bible at all until assimilating the concepts of Vedanta, particularly Dvaita-vedanta or Krishna Consciousness.

[HerServant]

 

To the nice spirit posting as Her Servant. I have a feeling you are long aware of this snippet from a letter to Sivananda in April of 68 in which case it's posted for others but if it is new to you I am sure it will bring you joy.

 

Jaya Yeshua! Jaya Krsna!

 

Hari Bol!

 

Yes I have seen this quote before. It opened my eyes to the Baladeva, Servitor Lord theology of Gaudiya Vaisnavism. When I read this, I took it to mean that Jesus is the incarnation of Sankarshana, the shelter of all jivas.

 

Therefore, I am trying, or working on letting go of conceptions. That is, letting go and letting God. His names and forms are without number.

 

Krnsa ki jaya! Hare Krsna!

[HerServant]

 

But daily am working toward this type of meditation. I am sure such meditation in practice (with rosary) is so special. A deep spiritual practice. Promoting love of God in the heart.

 

You understood perfectly what I tried communicate in my earlier post. This is exactly the conception .. the realization and what I am experiencing.

 

I think the rosary is actually reveals the nama-rupa in the lila. There is one quote from one of the Vaisnava spiritual masters .. I am sorry I can't find it at the moment, but it teaches that the mantra is also the "way" to nama rupa realization.

 

 

I have encountered similarly from Srila Prabhupada's teachings. And my appreciation of catholicism has grown by his grace. I think from having some contact with Jesus since birth he will always remain in my heart. Actually on my small altar here I have his image with the sacred heart. This image is my earliest recollection of Christ. I hope to meet him. The perfect human being.

 

You have said something VERY important I think. Jesus appeared in a dream in my youth. As I stumbled through this lifetime, I had forgotten this dream. What a tremendous loss. Then, somehow, through reading BG As It Is .. I remembered! "Do this in rememberence of me" ... "Think only of Me" .. it is the same.

 

We are to send our hearts love to Him .. we can approach at His feet as the BG teaches, but the prayer, the intent must come from the heart. That is how we can meet Him. He is there in the Lila.

 

I have had amazing experiences chanting maha mantra while meditation on Jesus lila. Nama rupa revelation is associated with chanting mantra.

 

 

Often on the forums I have read criticism of catholocism. But I am sure if they new the depths of it's internal mysticism, such critics would see great similarities rather than difference. I guess only those who have had the grace to see internal life will understand this, otherwise only externals will be prominent.

 

 

Right. I understand. The church has two components as does any on this planet .. the internal and the external. The devotees on all sides (faiths) are not too interested in the external. We want to enter the "cave of the heart" .. the depth of the church has always been attacked by even church members. St. John of the Cross was thrown in jail by his bishop as an example. The desert fathers ran from the organized church in the 2nd century because of all of the external fighting, etc.

 

 

Some have debated on the forum recently that Srila Prabhupada was only being diplomatic when referring to Jesus. But I know this is not true, for he was an advanced soul, who was seeing things much deeper than the external platform.

 

Srila Prabhupada said many things about Jesus and they have to be taken together. Some of the people saying these things are anti christs. I am not using that term lightly . There are Srila Prabhupada direct disciples that are 180 degrees opposite one another on this point. You don't have to do much research to see that the Srila Prabhupada's movement came under the attack of demons. Of all the planets in the universe, we live on the one that crucified God's son. Those people against Jesus .. they are the antichrist.

 

 

And I agree with you...I am also deeply attracted to Gaudiya Vaisnavism. It's depth of personalism is appealing. To hear of God's (Krsna's) qualities is pleasing to the heart. Within the tradition there is a real treasure which many in the world may possibly not have guessed is there.

 

Totally fantastic! Now why would anyone want to keep it from Catholics and Christians by preaching anti christ sentiment along with the nectar of Srila Prabhupada and the SB, BG, etc.?

 

Srila Prabhupada gave us the "good news" and fortunately I can received without sectarianism! The SB and BG and Srila Prabhupada himself does not belong to one group.

 

Jaya Srila Prabhupada!

[HerServant]

 

Fr. Bede Griffiths writings I've read, and recommend:

 

Vedanta and Christian Faith

 

The Cosmic Revelation

 

Essential Writings (a compendium)

 

He was a great soul.

 

I didn't understand the Bible at all until assimilating the concepts of Vedanta, particularly Dvaita-vedanta or Krishna Consciousness.

 

I feel the same way .. Jesus' life and the meaning in the bible "opened up" in the light of the Vedas. Jaya Srila Prabhupada !

[mahak]

Thanks for your nice presentations on this forum. Proper perspective is a raRE thing these days.

 

You mention the rosary. Once, I was in a remote situation, no contact (in fact, careful avoidance) with ISKCON, no ability to procure japa mala, yet I had victims of my preaching effort who wanted to begin japa meditation.

 

So I gave them a rosary. I mentioned the Pancha Tattwa mantra should begin every round, so the cross and the 5 beads that lead up to the bead circle make up the krsna bead on japa mala. The bead circle on the rosary make up 54 beads, (five sets of ten hail marys and a lords prayer between each set), so to go around the bead circle twice makes exactly 108.

 

It was a time and place emergency, but it worked, and the marion christians who began to chant the mahamantra on their rosaries were greatly impressed with the math.

 

There are many who love Lord Jesus Christ who are naturally inclined to favor vaisnavism. However, it takes the right combination of who is chanting and who is hearing to make this work. The vaisnava preacher should have ABSOLUTELY no tinge of party spirit, must have no sectarian concern. Bhjagavad gita affirms this, that one surrender to Krsna while simultaneously giving up all varieties of religion. The lover of the teachings of Lord Jesus Christ must also give up sectarian ideas, as Lord Jesus Himself told his disciples. They were in anxiety about the competition, and exclaimed to Lord Jesus: "There are others who speak similarly, what should we do?" Lord Jesus Christ responded, "Those who are not preaching against us are with us."

 

So a true follower of Lord Jesus Christ with be naturally inclined to be favorable to a true vaisnava who has understood Bhagavad Gita. Unfortunately, as Srila Bhaktivinode has stated, party spirit blindness destroys all potential for success in spiritual life. A so-called vaisnava religionist hates christians, and (anti)christians hate vaisnavas, and neither can even be in the same room let alone have a reasonable conversation concerning spiritual values.

 

Hare Krsna, thanks again for your contributions here, ys, mahaksadasa

[HerServant]

 

Thanks for your nice presentations on this forum. Proper perspective is a raRE thing these days.

 

You mention the rosary. Once, I was in a remote situation, no contact (in fact, careful avoidance) with ISKCON, no ability to procure japa mala, yet I had victims of my preaching effort who wanted to begin japa meditation.

 

So I gave them a rosary. I mentioned the Pancha Tattwa mantra should begin every round, so the cross and the 5 beads that lead up to the bead circle make up the krsna bead on japa mala. The bead circle on the rosary make up 54 beads, (five sets of ten hail marys and a lords prayer between each set), so to go around the bead circle twice makes exactly 108.

 

It was a time and place emergency, but it worked, and the marion christians who began to chant the mahamantra on their rosaries were greatly impressed with the math.

 

There are many who love Lord Jesus Christ who are naturally inclined to favor vaisnavism. However, it takes the right combination of who is chanting and who is hearing to make this work. The vaisnava preacher should have ABSOLUTELY no tinge of party spirit, must have no sectarian concern. Bhjagavad gita affirms this, that one surrender to Krsna while simultaneously giving up all varieties of religion. The lover of the teachings of Lord Jesus Christ must also give up sectarian ideas, as Lord Jesus Himself told his disciples. They were in anxiety about the competition, and exclaimed to Lord Jesus: "There are others who speak similarly, what should we do?" Lord Jesus Christ responded, "Those who are not preaching against us are with us."

 

So a true follower of Lord Jesus Christ with be naturally inclined to be favorable to a true vaisnava who has understood Bhagavad Gita. Unfortunately, as Srila Bhaktivinode has stated, party spirit blindness destroys all potential for success in spiritual life. A so-called vaisnava religionist hates christians, and (anti)christians hate vaisnavas, and neither can even be in the same room let alone have a reasonable conversation concerning spiritual values.

 

Hare Krsna, thanks again for your contributions here, ys, mahaksadasa

 

I cry at your feet, as I read this, my eyes filled up with tears. I have looked for 20 years for the vaisnavas. I visited ISKCON temples throughout all of the US and found much anger and fear at the mere mention of Jesus' name. I wanted to just share that I, a catholic, had become so enlivened, so filled with joy, by Srila Prabhupada's books (BG, SB), but my desire to spread joy was not recieved.

 

Tonight I will chant my rosary as maha mantra, just as you taught, as a humble offering for you and your associates.

 

I am your servant. Please accept my humble obeisances and association.

 

Hare Krsna! Jaya Yahu Shua (Jesus)!

[brajeshwara das]

So much nectar in this thread that started with such meager beginnings. All Glories to all servitors of the Lord!

[astrobhadauria]

paramadarniya Guruvar,

Everyone is Vaishnav if he feels the pain of others,there are all the human of this earth,and there are only "Bhawana" is most powerfull,"Jaakee Rahee Bhawanaa jaisee/Prabhu Moorati tin dekhee taisee//"if anyone have good bhavana and having kindness in heart that is human,in Sanskriti-yesham na vidhya na tapo na daanam,Gyaanam na sheelam na guno na dharma,te mrityu loke bhuvi bhaar bhootaa,manushya roopen mrags charanit,there are no fame,no education,no meditations,no donations to poors,no knowledge,no respects to elders,no habits to make good works,no religion in mind,those persons are heavy weight on this earth,like a bhoot(Ghost) they are like a deer and eating grass.

"kaddu kaati mridang banaayo,neeboo kaati manjeeraa,paanch turayaan magal gaave naachee baalam kheeraa".

When some body in the true bhakti of Shri hari,then he can arrenge all instruments of Keertana,like a vegitable seller,he completed the Mridang after cut the pumpkin,and Manjeeraa instrument by the Lemons,it is the way of true Bhakti,not required who is big or who is small,everyone have breaths in counting,and not make damage by saying more and more,make some bhakti.

[theist]

There is much here that fits in with Krsna consciousness and is Bhakti-yoga. Still to be more pleasing to Jesus Christ His/Our Father should be more emphasized.

 

The tradition is to chant this prayer on beads or rope beads until one becomes one with the prayer and it then issues spontaneously straight from the heart and permeates one's entire being.

 

A nice little book to read on this is called the Way of the Pilgrim. A gem of a book.

 

 

 

The Jesus Prayer

Fr. Steven Peter Tsichlis

Prayer is the basis of our Christian life, the source of our experience of Jesus as the Risen Lord. Yet how few Christians know how to pray with any depth! For most of us, prayer means little more than standing in the pews for an hour or so on Sunday morning or perhaps reciting, in a mechanical fashion, prayers once learned by rote during childhood. Our prayer life - and thus our life as Christians - remains, for the most part, at this superficial level. THE CHALLENGE OF ST. PAUL

 

But this approach to the life of prayer has nothing to do with the Christianity of St. Paul, who urges the Christians of first century Thessalonica to "pray without ceasing" (1 Thess. 5:1). And in his letter to Rome, the Apostle instructs the Christian community there to "be constant in prayer" (Rom. 12:12). He not only demands unceasing prayer of the Christians in his care, but practices it himself. "We constantly thank God for you" (1 Thess. 2:13) he writes in his letter to the Thessalonian community; and he comforts Timothy, his "true child in the faith" (1 Tim. 1:2) with the words: "Always I remember you in my prayers" (2 Tim. 1:3). In fact, whenever St. Paul speaks of prayer in his letters, two Greek words repeatedly appear: PANTOTE (pantote), which means always; and ADIALEPTOS (adialeptos), meaning without interruption or unceasingly. Prayer is then not merely a part of life which we can conveniently lay aside if something we deem more important comes up; prayer is all of life. Prayer is as essential to our life as breathing. This raises some important questions. How can we be expected to pray all the time? We are, after all, very busy people. Our work, our spouse, our children, our school - all place heavy demands upon our time. How can we fit more time for prayer into our already overcrowded lives? These questions and the many others like them which could be asked set up a false dichotomy in our lives as Christians. To pray does not mean to think about God in contrast to thinking about other things or to spend time with God in contrast to spending time with our family and friends. Rather, to pray means to think and live our entire life in the Presence of God. As Paul Evdokimov has remarked: "Our whole life, every act and gesture, even a smile must become a hymn or adoration, an offering, a prayer. We must become prayer-prayer incarnate." This is what St. Paul means when he writes to the Corinthians that "whatever you do, do it for the glory of God" (1 Cor. 10:31). THE JESUS PRAYER

 

In order to enter more deeply into the life of prayer and to come to grips with St. Paul's challenge to pray unceasingly, the Orthodox Tradition offers the Jesus Prayer, which is sometimes called the prayer of the heart. The Jesus Prayer is offered as a means of concentration, as a focal point for our inner life. Though there are both longer and shorter versions, the most frequently used form of the Jesus Prayer is: "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner." This prayer, in its simplicity and clarity, is rooted in the Scriptures and the new life granted by the Holy Spirit. It is first and foremost a prayer of the Spirit because of the fact that the prayer addresses Jesus as Lord, Christ and Son of God; and as St. Paul tells us, "no one can say 'Jesus is Lord' except by the Holy Spirit" (1 Cor. 12:3). THE SCRIPTURAL ROOTS OF THE JESUS PRAYER

 

The Scriptures give the Jesus Prayer both its concrete form and its theological content. It is rooted in the Scriptures in four ways:

1. In its brevity and simplicity, it is the fulfillment of Jesus' command that "in praying" we are "not to heap up empty phrases as the heathen do; for they think that they will be heard for their many words. Do not be like them . . . (Matt. 6:7-8).
   
2. The Jesus Prayer is rooted in the Name of the Lord. In the Scriptures, the power and glory of God are present in his Name. In the Old Testament to deliberately and attentively invoke God's Name was to place oneself in his Presence. Jesus, whose name in Hebrew means God saves, is the living Word addressed to humanity. Jesus is the final Name of God. Jesus is "the Name which is above all other names" and it is written that "all beings should bend the knee at the Name of Jesus" (Phil. 2:9-10). In this Name devils are cast out (Luke 10:17), prayers are answered (John 14:13 14) and the lame are healed (Acts 3:6-7). The Name of Jesus is unbridled spiritual power.
   
3. The words of the Jesus Prayer are themselves based on Scriptural texts: the cry of the blind man sitting at the side of the road near Jericho, "Jesus, Son of David, have mercy on me" (Luke 18:38); the ten lepers who "called to him, Jesus, Master, take pity on us' " (Luke 17:13); and the cry for mercy of the publican, "God, be merciful to me, a sinner" (Luke 18:14).
   
4. It is a prayer in which the first step of the spiritual journey is taken: the recognition of our own sinfulness, our essential estrangement from God and the people around us. The Jesus Prayer is a prayer in which we admit our desperate need of a Saviour. For "if we say we have no sin in us, we are deceiving ourselves and refusing to admit the truth" (1 John 1:8).

THE THREE LEVELS OF PRAYER

 

Because prayer is a living reality, a deeply personal encounter with the living God, it is not to be confined to any given classification or rigid analysis. However, in order to offer some broad, general guidelines for those interested in using the Jesus Prayer to develop their inner life, Theophan the Recluse, a 19th century Russian spiritual writer, distinguishes three levels in the saying of the Prayer:

1. It begins as oral prayer or prayer of the lips, a simple recitation which Theophan defines as prayers' "verbal expression and shape." Although very important, this level of prayer is still external to us and thus only the first step, for "the essence or soul of prayer is within a man's mind and heart."
   
2. As we enter more deeply into prayer, we reach a level at which we begin to pray without distraction. Theophan remarks that at this point, "the mind is focused upon the words" of the Prayer, "speaking them as if they were our own."
   
3. The third and final level is prayer of the heart. At this stage prayer is no longer something we do but who we are. Such prayer, which is a gift of the Spirit, is to return to the Father as did the prodigal son (Luke 15:32). The prayer of the heart is the prayer of adoption, when "God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit that cries 'Abba, Father!'" (Gal. 4:6).

THE FRUITS OF THE JESUS PRAYER

 

This return to the Father through Christ in the Holy Spirit is the goal of all Christian spirituality. It is to be open to the presence of the Kingdom in our midst. The anonymous author of The Way of the Pilgrim reports that the Jesus Prayer has two very concrete effects upon his vision of the world. First, it transfigures his relation ship with the material creation around him; the world becomes transparent, a sign, a means of communicating God's presence. He writes:

"When I prayed in my heart, everything around me seemed delightful and marvelous. The trees, the grass, the birds, the air, the light seemed to be telling me that they existed for man's sake, that they witnessed to the love of God for man, that all things prayed to God and sang his praise."

Second, the Prayer transfigures his relationship to his fellow human beings. His relationships are given form within their proper context: the forgiveness and compassion of the crucified and risen Lord.

"Again I started off on my wanderings. But now I did not walk along as before, filled with care. The invocation of the Name of Jesus gladdened my way. Everybody was kind to me. If anyone harms me I have only to think, 'How sweet is the Prayer of Jesus!' and the injury and the anger alike pass away and I forget it all."

ENDLESS GROWTH

 

"Growth in prayer has no end," Theophan informs us. "If this growth ceases, it means that life ceases." The way of the heart is endless because the God whom we seek is infinite in the depths of his glory. The Jesus Prayer is a signpost along the spiritual journey, a journey that all of us must take.

[sanatan]

 

So much nectar in this thread that started with such meager beginnings. All Glories to all servitors of the Lord!

 

Indeed.

 

HerServant, it's so nice to have such a wonderful Christian voice here...once again, please accept my humble obeisances and...hang around!

 

I'm sorry to hear that you encountered negativity in response to mention of Jesus Christ in ISKCON temples; however, I'd guess that most of those that responded to you this way were simply displaying reactive emotions about past experiences with fundies and fanatics, not intentionally criticizing Jesus.

 

Being a recovering Christian-hater, I understand these things. Happily, I have now made some progress in reclaiming my Christian roots, but am still very disturbed at times by the fundamentalists who claim the Bible and their interpretation of the events therein as proprietary truth.

 

Regarding Bede Griffiths: I didn't know that he had encountered Dvaita-vedanta philosophy...did he read from Srila Prabhupada's Caitanya-caritamrta and Bhagavatam?

 

Sri Krishna Prem (British-born, appx. 1900-1967) was also a pioneering westerner in India. He took up the life of a Vaisnava Krishna-bhakta around 1925, a few years after serving in World War I and as a University professor in India, and never looked back.

[theist]

An interesting note: Where it says in the New Testament to pray in the name of Jesus the word for 'name' also means 'in the nature of'. To pray in the nature of Jesus means to pray in the mood of a pure devotee of the Lord. "Not My will but Thy will be done."

 

This is the Way the Truth and the Life and it is true that no soul comes to God except through the nature of Jesus Christ.

[HerServant]

 

 

patram puspam phalam toyam

yo me bhaktya prayacchati

tad aham bhakty-upahrtam

asnami prayatatmanah

 

If one offers Me with love and devotion a leaf, a flower, fruit or water, I will accept it.

[HerServant]

 

Indeed.

 

HerServant, it's so nice to have such a wonderful Christian voice here...once again, please accept my humble obeisances and...hang around!

 

I'm sorry to hear that you encountered negativity in response to mention of Jesus Christ in ISKCON temples; however, I'd guess that most of those that responded to you this way were simply displaying reactive emotions about past experiences with fundies and fanatics, not intentionally criticizing Jesus.

 

Sorry, I hope I wasn't too negative. I didn't mean to say something negative about ISKCON as a whole. Just that in my early encounters with certain members, as in the case of any organization on this planet, I experience rejection as a result of those envious of God the Father and God the Son. This envy or jealousy manifested at the mere mention the Holy Name of Jesus. But lets be realistic, I could have been a non Christian and read the bible and said .. 'O wow Jesus is so marvelous, .. I see Krsna's Son and His teaching so perfectly in the light of Bhagavad Gita .. now let me go and talk to Christians about Krsna' .. What would have been the result?

 

"Blessed are the peacemakers, they shall be called sons of God" Matt. 5:9

 

Srila Prabhupada's calls us to take up the Sankirtan's non sectarian mission, .. to just chant the Holy Name!

 

 

Being a recovering Christian-hater, I understand these things. Happily, I have now made some progress in reclaiming my Christian roots, but am still very disturbed at times by the fundamentalists who claim the Bible and their interpretation of the events therein as proprietary truth.

 

I understand this very well and can completely relate to your position and your feelings. I too, came under attack in the 70s by the fundies (fundies don't like catholics). But I now thank them because this inspired me to study christian history, church fathers, mystics and saints in greater depth. However, I always knew in my heart that God is the God of everyone .. not one sect. My favorite bible passage to thwart the fundies is:

 

"For it is not those who hear the law who are just in the sight of God; rather, those who observe the law will be justified. For when the Gentiles who do not have the law by nature observe the prescriptions of the law, they are a law for themselves even though they do not have the law. They show that the demands of the law are written in their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even defend them on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge people's hidden works through Christ Jesus." Romans 2:13-16

 

God writes His Law into the heart of every person! Of course the fundies would be bewildered by this passage and pusuit a hundred other passages to defend their "right" to condemn others.

 

 

Regarding Bede Griffiths: I didn't know that he had encountered Dvaita-vedanta philosophy...did he read from Srila Prabhupada's Caitanya-caritamrta and Bhagavatam?

 

 

Yes. The Sannyasi that gave him the copy is a direct disciple of Srila Prabhupada. He knew Fr. Bede had not much formal (written) exposure to Dvaita philosophy. He said he personally gave him the CC and exclaimed "and he was reading it!". I think this happened a year or two before Fr. Bede went home.

[mahak]

Thank you much for your kind words, her servant. Im posting the following story for your consideration.

 

You have not been harsh toward ISKCON. I had a good story told to me by an advanced disciple of Srila Prabhupada which describes the situation. We come to the point of acknowledging our illness and unhappiness, so we go to see the doctor. We wait in the office, and we look around, and all we see is sick people. But the doctor is in, this is who we have come for, so not to worry about the condition of others.

 

There is also the situation that beginners find themselves in. Basically, we are faithless, thus jesus christ refers to us as "ye of little faith". In this condition, we may feel improvement of our condition because of our serious endeavor for spiritual life (christian, vaisnava, doesnt matter). Because of this improvement, we may experiance defensiveness in regard to our chosen path, thus we have a tendency to decry others. It is a very common trait in the beginner to be sectarian. However, as we mature, we see that the great authorities like lord jesus christ and the vaisnava acaryas do not have to cut others out in order to emphasize what gifts they present. The more we devote ourselves to the acaryas, the less fear we have for others. Fear is the basis for sectarian separatism and hatred. It is actually the duty of the priests and mullahs to instill non-hatred in their wards, but in this age, the priests and mullahs foment this base fear, severely damaging the progressive way of their disciples.

 

But as we see here, this false premise is nonsense. There is no reason that a true follower of Lord Jesus and the bhakta yogi cannot exsperiance a oneness in purposwe. We do not preach against the other. Srila Prabhupada took every opportunity to drive this sectarianism out of his disciples. While he is not a Christian minister, nor a biblical scholar, nor a user of biblical scripture in his presentation, he finds no fault, no difference, and as Lord Jesus has told his disciples, he is not speaking differently nor is antagonistic, therefore, he is with us. Srila Prabhupada spares no one in his praise and dedication to Lord Jesus Christ.

 

So, those who hate and cannot hear the name of Lord Jesus are not quite awake to the reality of the situation.

 

Anyway, in a different mode, this Mother and Son article covers many of the points, especially the disrespect some beginner christians even have toward Thomas, Mary queen of magdalia, mother mary, james, et all.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

 

...

 

<center>MOTHER & SON

The story of the Pearl by mahaksadasa

</center> Israel defines as "wife of God". In the canonized scripture of Lord Jesus Christ Lila, Mary, the Axumite Hebrew Mother of Lord Jesus Christ is also described as without contamination. Her position as nitya-siddha, born without flaw and cognizant of swarupa, is verified, Her eternal activities outside the material strata are also hinted, but more extensively described in various extra-biblical studies. Mary, the embodiment of the concept of "Israel", is none other that Srimati Laxmidevi, the constant companion of Sri Narayana. The transcendental appearance of the saktivesa avatara, Lord Jesus Christ, is through the arrangement of Sri Sri Laxmi Narayana, a presentation of empowered son to the world.

 

 

The Bible, as well as the Veda, verifies that the Supreme Lord is approached through the via medium of His confidential Son, associate, friend, parent, and consort. Lord Jesus Christ states His relationship with His Father and beacons us to proceed through Him. Through Him, the spiritual world of variegatedness is experianced and the whole story of transcendental relationship is known. Father sends wife (Israel) and Son to reclaim His Own.

 

 

Though non-Catholic Christians do not actively vilify the esteemed position of Mary, they nevertheless consider Her ordinary. The Catholic may know of Her glory, yet does not emphasize Her relationship with Sri Narayana. Perhaps the canon process begun in the 4th century after the appearance of Lord Jesus Christ started this minimization of Her glory, yet her activities both in this realm and Her described eternal service confirm Her extraordinary Love of God, pure Bhakti yoga.

 

 

By failing to recognize the intercession of Mary, those who claim to follow Lord Jesus Christ may fall quite short of tasting actual flavor of rasa. Many follow Him but cannot conceive of actually being with Him as He is. Even the beginnings of actual love of God, the peacefulness of spirit upon witnessing His activities (santa rasa), cannot be attained without seeing Him in relationship with His eternal associates. Without proper appreciation of Mother presenting Her Glorious Son to the world, there is no pleasing of the Son, the Father, or any of the associates. Home is never seen.

Some folks of other cultural background may neglect the whole subject of Lord Jesus Christ Lila, stating disinterest, but those who can distinguish devotee from one simply in forgetfulness of sanatana dharma will gladly hear of all the activities of the Vaisnava, cultural and other bodily distinctions are never considered.

 

 

Lord Jesus Christ has returned to the Home of His Father. It is described by valid writings that He sits on His throne at the right hand of the Father. Any ideas that negate this ultimate appreciation of His teachings are not authoritative and obviously a concoction of man. This vision of Two Thrones is, therefore, reality, and denial of the separate individuality of both the Father and the Son must be rejected.

 

 

The vision and teaching of two thrones is verification of the principles of Vaisnavism, which can also be referred to as understanding of transcendental relationships (rasa). The entirity of Lord Jesus Christ's teachings is based on His demonstration of such rasa, thus Lord Jesus Christ can also be rightfully called acarya. If one accepts the teaching of this wonderful Father-Son relationship, one can also appreciate the variegatedness of such a Kingdom, with no one left out, all able to relate in a very intimate way. The invitation is available for all to take part.

Mata Mary is the created vehicle for the Fathers Desire to demonstrate the eternal natural realm to this world of death, confusion, and forgetfulness. In this essay, Mary is referred to as nitya-siddha. Many Christians, when they hear the phrase "immaculate conception", they think this refers to God taking birth from a human being, but this is incorrect. Immaculate conception is the story of the birth of Mary, not Her glorious Son. The phrase is similar to nitya-siddha, meaning one who is born without material contamination, not affected and entrapped by the world of time, not bound by illusion, not forgetful of sanatana-dharma.

 

 

The actual story of the method in which the Supreme Lord places His Wife, Israel, into the world to facilitate His Son's glorious mission of reclaiming the fallen souls is described in many ways, as the culture of Lord Jesus Christ's teachings spread world wide (not just to Rome, as the Eurocentrist would have us believe.) His young disciple, John, went to the Orient, His older brothers, Didyamous Thomas and James, also traveled Eastward, through Persia to the west coast of India. There is also substantial evidence that the western hemisphere was given the version of Lord Jesus Christ centuries before the arrival of the European, their holocaust invasion which used the weapon of Jesus' assassination (the cross) as their symbol of domination.

 

 

The Story of the Pearl is from the tradition of Lord Jesus Christ that moved south into Ethiopia, the writings of royal succession from the throne of creation, known as Kebra Nagast. As the Father gave the rebellious Adam his Eve to help him in his rebellion, the Lord also placed Israel into him in the form of a Pearl. This pearl was not bound by biology, She defied logic in the way She passed from generation to generation, bypassing the unqualified and residing only with the righteous. She rested in the heart of Seth, Jacob, Isaac, Joseph, and Abraham, as She sees fitting. She became the psalms of David and the Wisdom of Solomon. King Solomon heard of Her journey as well as Her future resting place from the Angel/servant of the Father, Gabriel, who also tells King Solomon that the servant Michael has been instructed to construct an exact replica of Holy Zion wherever the Pearl resides. The Wife of Solomon, Makeda, the queen of Sheeba, tells her son, Menyelek, that the Pearl will continue Her Journey until She resides with Joachim and Hanna, the parents of Mary.

 

 

The Pearl has taken birth in this family by the direct arrangement of the Supreme Father, thus the Lord Jesus Christ becomes the shaktivesa avatara in this way. Mother Mary has many names, the morning star, the comforter of the afflicted, the refuge of the unfortunate, and continues to administer the Will of both Father and Son.

 

 

This essay is written to describe that the concept of "rasa" is not absent from the available writings of Lord Jesus Christ Katha. He does not teach nirvisesavad philosophy of merging with the supreme impersonal god, nor does he entirely teach salvationism (although salvation comes automatically upon fulfillment of His desire), rather He describes the spiritual world and the personalities who reside there in order to attract the fallen to the realm of The Father who has sent Him.

 

 

Haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

[HerServant]

 

An interesting note: Where it says in the New Testament to pray in the name of Jesus the word for 'name' also means 'in the nature of'. To pray in the nature of Jesus means to pray in the mood of a pure devotee of the Lord. "Not My will but Thy will be done."

 

This is the Way the Truth and the Life and it is true that no soul comes to God except through the nature of Jesus Christ.

 

Exactly. This is how I read John 15 (I am the vine, you are the branch). A branch is genetically identical with the vine. Part and parcel. The same qualities.

 

Our (Christian) revelation is that Jesus is Shelter of all the Jivas (Vine), the Sankarsana and not only a perfect saint (fruit bearing branch)but that He is God.

 

I can't pretend to be realized enough to philosophically debate a point so high and near to God as this.

 

It is my personal realization and personal experience is that He is God .. that the person of Jesus cannot be seen unless the logical contraversy of whether or not He is God is obliterated by Love for Him. I've told this to other Vaisnavas and they are completely fine with this .. that Krsna comes to His devotees in a personal way and in a form that is a perfectly revelals their relationship to Him.

 

Also it is important that I offer my obeisances and full respects of the opinions and realizations of the Vaisnavas on the topic. Everyone doesn't have to have exactly the same conception of God. He is unlimited. The artifacts of our devotional service are identical!

 

Therefore, I think the position should be that we not bicker over the highest points of theology. In fact, we should not take a position against each other on these high and lofty, inexplicable aspects of God. We do better to say, there are slight difference in interpretation, or different realizations of the devotees. Maybe even say that our interpretations of what our acharyas were really saying to us are not yet fully realized by us.

 

I think at best I can approach someone and say, brother, sister .. lets just love each other .. my tiny mind can't comprehend it all .. please don't punish me if I don't have it all together as someone higher up on the spiritual platform as I .. I am not there yet .. I am a work in progress .. I ask the Vaisnavas help and prayers .. please accept my friendship.

 

This is I think the core of the Holy Sankirtan. Chant the Holy name, receive the gifts of the Holy Spirit, listen to each other and share our experiences, and enter into the wonderous loving exchange with God and each other.

[HerServant]

 

<center>MOTHER & SON

The story of the Pearl by mahaksadasa

</center> Israel defines as "wife of God". In the canonized scripture of Lord Jesus Christ Lila, Mary, the Axumite Hebrew Mother of Lord Jesus Christ is also described as without contamination. Her position as nitya-siddha, born without flaw and cognizant of swarupa, is verified, Her eternal activities outside the material strata are also hinted, but more extensively described in various extra-biblical studies. Mary, the embodiment of the concept of "Israel", is none other that Srimati Laxmidevi, the constant companion of Sri Narayana. The transcendental appearance of the saktivesa avatara, Lord Jesus Christ, is through the arrangement of Sri Sri Laxmi Narayana, a presentation of empowered son to the world.

 

 

The Bible, as well as the Veda, verifies that the Supreme Lord is approached through the via medium of His confidential Son, associate, friend, parent, and consort. Lord Jesus Christ states His relationship with His Father and beacons us to proceed through Him. Through Him, the spiritual world of variegatedness is experianced and the whole story of transcendental relationship is known. Father sends wife (Israel) and Son to reclaim His Own.

 

 

Though non-Catholic Christians do not actively vilify the esteemed position of Mary, they nevertheless consider Her ordinary. The Catholic may know of Her glory, yet does not emphasize Her relationship with Sri Narayana. Perhaps the canon process begun in the 4th century after the appearance of Lord Jesus Christ started this minimization of Her glory, yet her activities both in this realm and Her described eternal service confirm Her extraordinary Love of God, pure Bhakti yoga.

 

 

By failing to recognize the intercession of Mary, those who claim to follow Lord Jesus Christ may fall quite short of tasting actual flavor of rasa. Many follow Him but cannot conceive of actually being with Him as He is. Even the beginnings of actual love of God, the peacefulness of spirit upon witnessing His activities (santa rasa), cannot be attained without seeing Him in relationship with His eternal associates. Without proper appreciation of Mother presenting Her Glorious Son to the world, there is no pleasing of the Son, the Father, or any of the associates. Home is never seen.

Some folks of other cultural background may neglect the whole subject of Lord Jesus Christ Lila, stating disinterest, but those who can distinguish devotee from one simply in forgetfulness of sanatana dharma will gladly hear of all the activities of the Vaisnava, cultural and other bodily distinctions are never considered.

 

 

Lord Jesus Christ has returned to the Home of His Father. It is described by valid writings that He sits on His throne at the right hand of the Father. Any ideas that negate this ultimate appreciation of His teachings are not authoritative and obviously a concoction of man. This vision of Two Thrones is, therefore, reality, and denial of the separate individuality of both the Father and the Son must be rejected.

 

 

The vision and teaching of two thrones is verification of the principles of Vaisnavism, which can also be referred to as understanding of transcendental relationships (rasa). The entirity of Lord Jesus Christ's teachings is based on His demonstration of such rasa, thus Lord Jesus Christ can also be rightfully called acarya. If one accepts the teaching of this wonderful Father-Son relationship, one can also appreciate the variegatedness of such a Kingdom, with no one left out, all able to relate in a very intimate way. The invitation is available for all to take part.

Mata Mary is the created vehicle for the Fathers Desire to demonstrate the eternal natural realm to this world of death, confusion, and forgetfulness. In this essay, Mary is referred to as nitya-siddha. Many Christians, when they hear the phrase "immaculate conception", they think this refers to God taking birth from a human being, but this is incorrect. Immaculate conception is the story of the birth of Mary, not Her glorious Son. The phrase is similar to nitya-siddha, meaning one who is born without material contamination, not affected and entrapped by the world of time, not bound by illusion, not forgetful of sanatana-dharma.

 

 

The actual story of the method in which the Supreme Lord places His Wife, Israel, into the world to facilitate His Son's glorious mission of reclaiming the fallen souls is described in many ways, as the culture of Lord Jesus Christ's teachings spread world wide (not just to Rome, as the Eurocentrist would have us believe.) His young disciple, John, went to the Orient, His older brothers, Didyamous Thomas and James, also traveled Eastward, through Persia to the west coast of India. There is also substantial evidence that the western hemisphere was given the version of Lord Jesus Christ centuries before the arrival of the European, their holocaust invasion which used the weapon of Jesus' assassination (the cross) as their symbol of domination.

 

 

The Story of the Pearl is from the tradition of Lord Jesus Christ that moved south into Ethiopia, the writings of royal succession from the throne of creation, known as Kebra Nagast. As the Father gave the rebellious Adam his Eve to help him in his rebellion, the Lord also placed Israel into him in the form of a Pearl. This pearl was not bound by biology, She defied logic in the way She passed from generation to generation, bypassing the unqualified and residing only with the righteous. She rested in the heart of Seth, Jacob, Isaac, Joseph, and Abraham, as She sees fitting. She became the psalms of David and the Wisdom of Solomon. King Solomon heard of Her journey as well as Her future resting place from the Angel/servant of the Father, Gabriel, who also tells King Solomon that the servant Michael has been instructed to construct an exact replica of Holy Zion wherever the Pearl resides. The Wife of Solomon, Makeda, the queen of Sheeba, tells her son, Menyelek, that the Pearl will continue Her Journey until She resides with Joachim and Hanna, the parents of Mary.

 

 

The Pearl has taken birth in this family by the direct arrangement of the Supreme Father, thus the Lord Jesus Christ becomes the shaktivesa avatara in this way. Mother Mary has many names, the morning star, the comforter of the afflicted, the refuge of the unfortunate, and continues to administer the Will of both Father and Son.

 

 

This essay is written to describe that the concept of "rasa" is not absent from the available writings of Lord Jesus Christ Katha. He does not teach nirvisesavad philosophy of merging with the supreme impersonal god, nor does he entirely teach salvationism (although salvation comes automatically upon fulfillment of His desire), rather He describes the spiritual world and the personalities who reside there in order to attract the fallen to the realm of The Father who has sent Him.

 

 

Haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

 

Amazing! Haribol! Thank you Mahaksadasa maharaja! This 'story' is truly beautiful!

 

I don't fully grasp all of Her Glories that you describe but certainly I feel them!

 

Mary as Israel, the Spouse of God and Her Immaculate conception is perfect. If I am not mistaken, the "Shekinah" Glory of God mentioned in the Bible is related to the sanskrit Shakti . This teach apparently has carried over into the church because the church, its saints and mystics say that Mary IS the church and that the church is the spouse of God on earth.

 

This is totally amazing:

 

 

By failing to recognize the intercession of Mary, those who claim to follow Lord Jesus Christ may fall quite short of tasting actual flavor of rasa. Many follow Him but cannot conceive of actually being with Him as He is. Even the beginnings of actual love of God, the peacefulness of spirit upon witnessing His activities (santa rasa), cannot be attained without seeing Him in relationship with His eternal associates. Without proper appreciation of Mother presenting Her Glorious Son to the world, there is no pleasing of the Son, the Father, or any of the associates.

 

 

We have this teaching preserved among the Marian devotees. It is call "consecration to Jesus through Mary". Taught by the Marian saints (St. Anthony, St. Dominic, St. Alphonsus di Liguouri, St. Louis d'Monforte).

 

In fact devotion to the Holy Name Mary can be historically verified as a practice as far back as the 3rd century (St. Ephrem). It is said that St. Anthony (his Murti is present in practically every Catholic church on the planet) said the Holy Name Mary thousands of times per day.

 

All glories to the Vaisnavas, the servants of the servants of God. Hare Krsna!

 

Thank you and peace.

 

herservant and yours