Should Christians be friends with Hindus/Hare Krishnas/etc.?

[theist]

 

It is my personal realization and personal experience is that He is God .. that the person of Jesus cannot be seen unless the logical contraversy of whether or not He is God is obliterated by Love for Him. I've told this to other Vaisnavas and they are completely fine with this .. that Krsna comes to His devotees in a personal way and in a form that is a perfectly revelals their relationship to Him.

 

I can easily accept this. Srila Prabhupada has said that Jesus is an incarnation of Krsna. I have also experienced being rebuffed at Iskcon temples since 1971 over this point.

 

Of course, we understand that Jesus said he was God as in "the Father and I are one", he also said the "Father is greater than I". This is acintya bhedabheda tattva and directly Lord Caitanya's philosophy. So why the controversy? I believe it is because the dvaita side of the equation is seen separately from advaita side instead of accepting them both simultaneously. Plus some unfortunate sectarianism as well.

 

I can say without rservation that it was the Holy Spirit as Paramatma who directed my to Krsna consciousness and that mercy was given because of the grace of Jesus Christ touched me with his loving spirit one memorable time.

[HerServant]

A few words from the Saints on the Glorius name of Mary!

 

"the name of Mary is the key of the gates of heaven, in the hands of those who devoutly invoke it " - St. Ephrem 3rd Century

 

"the greatest delight and strength comes from invoking the "sweet name of Mary," - St. Anthony of Padua

 

"thy name, 0 Mother of God, is filled with divine graces and blessings," - St. Methodius.

 

"that thy name, 0 Mary, cannot be pronounced without bringing some grace to him who does so devoutly." - St. Bonaventure

 

"that Mary is the salvation of all who call upon her." - St. Bonaventure

 

"that the devils fear the Queen of heaven to such a degree, that only on hearing her great name pronounced, they fly from him who does so as from a burning fire." - Thomas a Kempis

 

"that there is not on earth a sinner, however devoid he may be of the love of God, from whom the devil is not obliged immediately to fly, if he invokes her holy name with a determination to repent." - St. Bridget

 

"that in the same way as the rebel angels fly from sinners who invoke the name of Mary, so also do the good angels approach nearer to just souls who pronounce her name with devotion." - St. Bridget

 

"0 most sweet name! 0 Mary, what must thou thyself be, since thy name alone is thus amiable and gracious," - Blessed Henry Suso.

 

"In dangers, in perplexities, in doubtful cases, think of Mary, call on Mary; let her not leave thy lips; let her not depart from thy heart." - St. Bernard

 

 

on Names of Jesus and Mary Together (the Rosary)

 

In every danger of forfeiting divine grace, we should think of Mary, and invoke her name, together with that of Jesus; for these two names always go together. 0, then, never let us permit these two most sweet names to leave our hearts, or be off our lips; for they will give us strength not only not to yield, but to conquer all our temptations. - St. Alphonsus diLigouri

 

"The invocation of the sacred names of Jesus and Mary,is a short prayer which is as sweet to the mind, and as powerful to protect those who use it against the enemies of their salvation, as it is easy to remember." - Thomas a Kempis

 

 

"Thus we see that the most holy name of Mary is sweet indeed to her clients during life, on account of the very great graces that she obtains for them. But sweeter still will it be to them in death, on account of the tranquil and holy end that it will insure them." - St. Alphonsus d Liguori

 

"May the last movement of my tongue be to pronounce the name of the Mother of God" -St. Germanus

 

 

"Blessed is the man who loves thy name, 0 Mary. Yes, truly blessed is he who loves thy sweet name, 0 Mother of God for thy name is so glorious and admirable, that no one who remembers it has any fears at the hour of death." - St. Bonaventure

 

"I ask thee, 0 Mary, for the glory of thy name, to come and meet my soul when it is departing from this world, and to take it in thine arms." - St. Bonaventure

[bija]

 

It is my personal realization and personal experience is that He is God .. that the person of Jesus cannot be seen unless the logical contraversy of whether or not He is God is obliterated by Love for Him. I've told this to other Vaisnavas and they are completely fine with this .. that Krsna comes to His devotees in a personal way and in a form that is a perfectly revelals their relationship to Him. quote by herservant

Herservant, it is funny, I copied this paragraph ready to paste, and I turned the page and theist has already pasted it. It rang true with me also, so here is my two cents worth....

 

I think your realization here is very wonderful. I cannot formulate exactly into words what I feel about this, but to say I encountered the same thing in regards to Sri 'Gauranga'Krsna. A few years ago I was wrangling with my faith, and finding it difficult as to who was actually God. Then I had this same realization as you have just said. I realized I no longer needed to wrangle. That all mental obstructions were unnecessary. That it all come down to 'love'. Love is all that will remain in the end I feel.

 

A great light entered my heart(I cannot pinpoint when it happened). Then I realized who was the Lord of this heart. And yes...it came to me in a very personal way. A way in which there was no need to argue with others who God is. He is mine, and I am His. A totally personal revelation. Maybe all devotees in this world will encounter this revelation as to their personal Ishta Deva (Lord of their Heart).

 

And as I realized Sri 'Gauranga'Krsna is the Lord of my heart, at the same time I knew Lord Jesus Christ resided there too. And when Christ said...'no one comes to the father but by me'. I know in my heart that, when I proceed to the father oneday, in some mystery I will also pass by Christ with his full blessing and guidance.

 

The mystery of God is so big. And similtaneously He comes to us in a personal way. Your realization rings true in my heart, for I have encountered the same. Therefore I would not hesitate to call you my brother in Christ, my brother in Krsna.

 

My hope on this thread is that the original poster (guestJustAsking) could have this personal encounter oneday also. And his answer to the question, 'should christians be friends with Hare Krsna's and hindus?' would be answered. In a knowing of his heart he would be able to reply YES ofcourse!

 

Om Shanti! Namaste!

[HerServant]

 

Herservant, it is funny, I copied this paragraph ready to paste, and I turned the page and theist has already pasted it. It rang true with me also, so here is my two cents worth....

 

I think your realization here is very wonderful. I cannot formulate exactly into words what I feel about this, but to say I encountered the same thing in regards to Sri 'Gauranga'Krsna. A few years ago I was wrangling with my faith, and finding it difficult as to who was actually God. Then I had this same realization as you have just said. I realized I no longer needed to wrangle. That all mental obstructions were unnecessary. That it all come down to 'love'. Love is all that will remain in the end I feel.

 

A great light entered my heart(I cannot pinpoint when it happened). Then I realized who was the Lord of this heart. And yes...it came to me in a very personal way. A way in which there was no need to argue with others who God is. He is mine, and I am His. A totally personal revelation. Maybe all devotees in this world will encounter this revelation as to their personal Ishta Deva (Lord of their Heart).

 

And as I realized Sri 'Gauranga'Krsna is the Lord of my heart, at the same time I knew Lord Jesus Christ resided there too. And when Christ said...'no one comes to the father but by me'. I know in my heart that, when I proceed to the father oneday, in some mystery I will also pass by Christ with his full blessing and guidance.

 

The mystery of God is so big. And similtaneously He comes to us in a personal way. Your realization rings true in my heart, for I have encountered the same. Therefore I would not hesitate to call you my brother in Christ, my brother in Krsna.

 

My hope on this thread is that the original poster (guestJustAsking) could have this personal encounter oneday also. And his answer to the question, 'should christians be friends with Hare Krsna's and hindus?' would be answered. In a knowing of his heart he would be able to reply YES ofcourse!

 

Om Shanti! Namaste!

 

Om Shanti! Peace!

 

The realizations here are actually OUR realizations and are universal! (originally, the word 'catholic' was not meant to signify a denomination or sect, but to categorize the congregations of devotees that shared a common universal truth. (the word catholic means 'universal'). In that regard True 'catholic' and True 'vaisnava' are one and the same as the Truth is One.

 

The experience of the Personal God wherein the universal Truth is revealed transcends the denominations and sectarianism. But also, we even appreciate the sect or denomination more because the realization of God is the realization of the saints and the acharyas (Guru Saddhu Sashtra).

 

Hare Krsna! Jesu Ki Jaya!

[HerServant]

 

A few years ago I was wrangling with my faith, and finding it difficult as to who was actually God. Then I had this same realization as you have just said. I realized I no longer needed to wrangle. That all mental obstructions were unnecessary. That it all come down to 'love'. Love is all that will remain in the end I feel.

 

A great light entered my heart(I cannot pinpoint when it happened). Then I realized who was the Lord of this heart. And yes...it came to me in a very personal way.

 

Thank you Lord!

 

The mind and the senses must be conquered but there is no real way to conquer by shear will or austerity. Love of God is the means for mastery of the senses, and this Love for Him is spontaneous and wells up from the heart at His command and by His Grace. This Love we can offer to Him .. we can place this love as a flower at His feet. We can approach His feet and give Him our Love.

 

For him who has conquered the mind, the mind is the best of friends; but for one who has failed to do so, his very mind will be the greatest enemy. - BG 6:6

 

'and man's enemies will be the members of his own household.' - Matt:10:36

 

"Everyone who listens to these words of mine and acts on them will be like a wise man who built his house on rock. The rain fell, the floods came, and the winds blew and buffeted the house. But it did not collapse; it had been set solidly on rock. And everyone who listens to these words of mine but does not act on them will be like a fool who built his house on sand. The rain fell, the floods came, and the winds blew and buffeted the house. And it collapsed and was completely ruined." - Matt 7:24-27

 

"But I say unto you, love your enemies" - Matt 5:44

 

Jesus sometimes compares a person to a house, and sometimes a boat, sometimes a plant or tree. These analogies are also universal as they can be found in SB, BG and various other sacred literatures. We can find in all scriptures (BG, Bible, etc.) much evidence that storms and so on often refer to the agitations of the senses and unsteadiness of faith and mind.

 

By rendering devotional service unto the Personality of Godhead, Sri Krsna, one immediately acquires causeless knowledge and detachment from the world. - SB 1:2:7

 

'causeless knowledge' means knowledge beyond logical controversy, i.e. realized knowledge.

 

As soon as I began to meditate upon the lotus feet of the Personality of Godhead with my mind transformed in transcendental love, tears rolled down my eyes, and without delay the Personality of Godhead Sri Krsna appeared on the lotus of my heart. -- SB 1:6:16

 

The mind is therefore rendered still by Love for God.

 

Here is the same Supreme Personality of Godhead whose transcendental form is experienced by the great devotees who are completely cleansed of material consciousness by dint of rigid devotional service and full control of life and the senses. And that is the only way to purify existence. -- SB 1:10:23

 

 

bhakti — by dint of devotional service; utkalita — developed; amala-atmana — those whose minds are thoroughly cleansed; nanu esah — certainly by this only; sattvam — existence; parimarstum — for purifying the mind completely; arhati — deserve

 

Therefore, there is nothing but bhakti than can purify the mind.

 

 

bhakti-yogena manasi

samyak pranihite 'male

apasyat purusam purnam

mayam ca tad-apasrayam

Thus he fixed his mind, perfectly engaging it by linking it in devotional service [bhakti-yoga] without any tinge of materialism, and thus he saw the Absolute Personality of Godhead along with His external energy, which was under full control. -- SB 1:7:4

 

"He said to him, "You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind." - Matt 22:37

 

bhakti-yogena manasi - Love your enemy (if it obstructs your way to the Lord)

 

HerServant and Yours.

[theist]

 

 

Frank Wesley, India

 

I have tried to find posters of Wesley's Art to no avail. This is my favorite Picture of Lord Jesus Christ.

 

________

 

John 4

Jesus Talks With a Samaritan Woman

1 The Pharisees heard that Jesus was gaining and baptising more disciples than John,

2 although in fact it was not Jesus who baptised, but his disciples.

 

3 When the Lord learned of this, he left Judea and went back once more to Galilee.

 

4 Now he had to go through Samaria.

 

5 So he came to a town in Samaria called Sychar, near the plot of ground Jacob had given to his son Joseph.

 

6 Jacob's well was there, and Jesus, tired as he was from the journey, sat down by the well. It was about the sixth hour.

 

7 When a Samaritan woman came to draw water, Jesus said to her, Will you give me a drink?

 

8 (His disciples had gone into the town to buy food.)

 

9 The Samaritan woman said to him, You are a Jew and I am a Samaritan woman. How can you ask me for a drink? (For Jews do not associate with Samaritans.)

 

10 Jesus answered her, If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water.

 

11 Sir, the woman said, you have nothing to draw with and the well is deep. Where can you get this living water?

 

12 Are you greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well and drank from it himself, as did also his sons and his flocks and herds?

 

13 Jesus answered, Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again,

 

14 but whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.

 

15 The woman said to him, Sir, give me this water so that I won't get thirsty and have to keep coming here to draw water.

 

16 He told her, Go, call your husband and come back.

 

17 I have no husband, she replied. Jesus said to her, You are right when you say you have no husband.

 

18 The fact is, you have had five husbands, and the man you now have is not your husband. What you have just said is quite true.

 

19 Sir, the woman said, I can see that you are a prophet.

 

20 Our fathers worshipped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem.

 

21 Jesus declared, Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem.

 

22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews.

 

23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshippers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshippers the Father seeks.

 

24 God is spirit, and his worshippers must worship in spirit and in truth.

 

25 The woman said, I know that Messiah (called Christ) is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us.

 

26 Then Jesus declared, I who speak to you am he.

 

 

The Disciples Rejoin Jesus

27 Just then his disciples returned and were surprised to find him talking with a woman. But no-one asked, What do you want? or Why are you talking with her?

28 Then, leaving her water jar, the woman went back to the town and said to the people,

 

29 Come, see a man who told me everything I ever did. Could this be the Christ?

 

30 They came out of the town and made their way towards him.

 

31 Meanwhile his disciples urged him, Rabbi, eat something.

 

32 But he said to them, I have food to eat that you know nothing about.

 

33 Then his disciples said to each other, Could someone have brought him food?

 

34 My food, said Jesus, is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work.

[bija]

 

bhakti-yogena manasi - Love your enemy (if it obstructs your way to the Lord) quote by herservant

 

Thank you for sharing your realizations of these verses. Your insights are very profound.

 

I can see why the Srimad Bhagavatam is called the spotless purana and why Srila Prabhupada has said we may not begin to be able to understand it's greatness (paraphrase).

 

It is so nice to see these universal truths manifesting in others. Surely love has no bounds, and mercy has no rules or constraints. Thanks for sharing your understandings of the 'gospel of grace'.

[HerServant]

 

I have tried to find posters of Wesley's Art to no avail. This is my favorite Picture of Lord Jesus Christ.

 

 

You're reading my mind. I've been looking for eastern depictions of Jesus. Perfect! Thank you.

 

Also, I've noticed that pre 6th century art of Jesus depicts Him youthful and without beard. There are byzantine mosaics of Him having a blue complexion.

 

Several years ago, I met an relatively well respected Sannyasi (living in India), a direct disciple of Srila Prabhupada... we went on a walk together and he told me of his visit to the Holy Land and of this place in the picture (the well) !!!

 

Only in the last week or two did I catch a glimmer of realization of what this loving Sannyasi was communicating.

 

Now you, dear one, are sending me the same. I think I shall strive harder to seek the Lord there and ask Him for a drink!

 

Peace and love.

 

HerServant and yours.

[HerServant]

As a very young boy, I was taught by my mother and the nuns that the meaning and purpose of life is "To know Him, to love Him, and to serve Him"

 

This teaching is in the children's catechism of Catholics and I think in many other christian protestant denominations. In the Catholic bishops office of catechism we have the following teaching on the meaning of "Happiness"

 

HAPPINESS: Joy and beatitude over receiving the fulfillment of our vocation as creatures: a sharing in the divine nature and the vision of God. God put us into the world to know, love, and serve him, and so come to the happiness of paradise (1720). -- http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/glossary.htm#h

 

 

It was only last month or so that I realizes that this simple "sloka" is the "nutshell edition" of the 3 margas: Jnana-yoga (know), Bhakti-yoga(love), and Karma-yoga(serve).

 

Hare Krsna!

[HerServant]

HOLY SPIRIT: The third divine Person of the Blessed Trinity, the personal love of Father and Son for each other. Also called the Paraclete (Advocate) and Spirit of Truth, the Holy Spirit is at work with the Father and the Son from the beginning to the completion of the divine plan for our salvation (685; cf. 152, 243). -- http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/glossary.htm#h

 

This is rather interesting. Assuming the Son is Krsna's first expansion, does Vedic literature confirm that the expansion of God as Paramatma is the Loving Exchange between Krsna and Balarama?

 

I think the literal translation of Paraclete (greek - Parakletos) is "Highest summoning" or "above and beyond the highest calling".

 

Sweetness is contemplating that God's love, the very love between Father and Son, is situated within my heart, it is Paramatma, the Paraclete, God's Highest Calling.

 

Blessed Be the Holy Names of the Lord! Hare Krsna! Hare Rama! Jesu Ki Jaya! All praises and glories to Paramatma, the Lord dwelling in our hearts!

[theist]

 

You're reading my mind. I've been looking for eastern depictions of Jesus. Perfect! Thank you.

 

My pleasure. I use google images to find his paintings.

 

 

 

Easter Morning

by Frank Wesley

Frank Wesley was born in Lucknow. He was so respected an artist that he was choosen to design Mohandas Gandhi's Urn.

His depictions of Christ reveal more of the divine Jesus to me than many of the western paintings which tend to over emphasize musculature. I would like to see them become widespread.

[hkmovies]

yes!

[Guest guest]

This is what Christians think of Yoga, Hare Krishna practices, etc. in comparison to what the Bible teaches.

 

youtube.com/watch?v=qHcEai9q0so

 

watch it.. it's hard to see the attacks on Lord Krishna/Shiva as a demon-god, but at least you'll see where the Christians are coming from in their condemnation of the hare krishna mantra, and other practices associated with the Vedic religion.

[HerServant]

 

This is what Christians think of Yoga, Hare Krishna practices, etc. in comparison to what the Bible teaches.

 

youtube.com/watch?v=qHcEai9q0so

 

watch it.. it's hard to see the attacks on Lord Krishna/Shiva as a demon-god, but at least you'll see where the Christians are coming from in their condemnation of the hare krishna mantra, and other practices associated with the Vedic religion.

 

"While contemplating the objects of the senses, a person develops attachment for them, and from such attachment lust develops, and from lust anger arises. From anger, delusion arises, and from delusion bewilderment of memory. When memory is bewildered, intelligence is lost, and when intelligence is lost, one falls down again into the material pool." Bhagavad Gita 2:62-3

 

"They said this to test him, so that they could have some charge to bring against him. Jesus bent down and began to write on the ground with his finger. But when they continued asking him, he straightened up and said to them, "Let the one among you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her." - John 8:6-7

[sanatan]

Those vids have to be 20 yrs old...contemporary with Rajneesh in America.

 

The eerie spook-house background music they play definitely adds some ominous atmosphere.

 

It's all typical demonization of anything but evangelical Protestantism...I noticed how those speaking said that Jesus "forbade" repetitive prayer, which Catholics also practice, and claimed it was based on the chanting of the names of "demon gods".

[bija]

 

I noticed how those speaking said that Jesus "forbade" repetitive prayer....quote by sanatan

Yes, I picked up on the same comments. The video carelessly quotes Jesus as saying repetitive prayer is not of spirit. Christ's words are so taken out of context here, and just goes to show the ignorance of the video makers.

 

Japa is far from shallow repetitive prayer. But is deep internal practice full of life.

 

 

This is what Christians think of Yoga, Hare Krishna practices, etc. in comparison to what the Bible teaches. quote by jeeva

 

I am also a bit cautious of sweeping generalizations like...'this is what christians think'.

 

Sure some are narrow minded like the video makers. But not all. For example I have an acquaintance here who is a catholic priest; in the past he has shown much interest in practice of yoga, and has even run christian meditation seminars in his local church. And yes, the meditation was on repetitive chanting of the name of Jesus.

 

Just know I have had an elderly Mormon couple visit. Sure they would love me to join their church but our conversation was much deeper than this. We have just spent the last three hours discussing similarities in our faith. And found much common ground. A totally enjoyable three hours discussing the qualities of our wonderful God.

 

Strangely enough though...I love watching cheaply made, corny propaganda videos such as this. Maybe my sense of enjoyment is a bit warped.

[HerServant]

The Supreme Lord said: My dear Arjuna, because you are never envious of Me, I shall impart to you this most secret wisdom, knowing which you shall be relieved of the miseries of material existence.-- BG 9:1

 

Purport (excerpt)

""Knowledge (idam jnanam) refers to pure devotional service, which consists of nine different activities: hearing, chanting, remembering, serving, worshiping, praying, obeying, maintaining friendship and surrendering everything.""

 

Bible says why man is in his condition of darkness:

 

For God doth know that in what day soever you shall eat thereof, your eyes shall be opened: and you shall be as Gods.."-- Genesis 3:5

 

Envy of God, the desire to be a god independent of the Supreme Lord, is the original sin described in Genesis.

 

Jesus gives the sloka for realizing the most confidential knowledge:

 

"Blessed are the pure of heart, for they will see God." - Matt 5:8

 

 

Peace.

[brajeshwara das]

 

The Supreme Lord said: My dear Arjuna, because you are never envious of Me, I shall impart to you this most secret wisdom, knowing which you shall be relieved of the miseries of material existence.-- BG 9:1

 

Purport (excerpt)

""Knowledge (idam jnanam) refers to pure devotional service, which consists of nine different activities: hearing, chanting, remembering, serving, worshiping, praying, obeying, maintaining friendship and surrendering everything.""

 

Bible says why man is in his condition of darkness:

 

For God doth know that in what day soever you shall eat thereof, your eyes shall be opened: and you shall be as Gods.."-- Genesis 3:5

 

Envy of God, the desire to be a god independent of the Supreme Lord, is the original sin described in Genesis.

 

Jesus gives the sloka for realizing the most confidential knowledge:

 

"Blessed are the pure of heart, for they will see God." - Matt 5:8

 

 

Peace.

 

Hari Hari!

[HerServant]

I posted this thread elsewhere in the forum, but I am also posting here as I realized as I concluded writing, Achintya beda beda tattva self realization taught in the Bible.

 

 

As KRSNa says, that sarva-dharmAn parityajya mAm ekaM zaraNaM vraja [bg. 18.66]. Then He will reveal Himself, sevonmukhe hi jihvAdau svayam eva sphuraty adaH. He'll reveal yourself.

 

PAMHO. Thank you for your wonderful post.

 

We see here that our true identity can only be known in relationship to the (revealed) Lord. The Lord's revealed names and forms, nama-rupa, are realized by the devotees according to His Mercy. That is, the true hearing of His Name is also the realized seeing of His Form.

 

We are limited and He is unlimited so the Lord (unless as in the case of Arjuna) is not revealing everything all at once (revealing His universal form). He shows us something of Himself in nama-rupa, He decides what we will hear and what we will see.

 

If the Lord reveals as One Who Rules (Master) then devotee automatically understands himself as servant of the Master. This is "self realization" .. seeing oneself in relationship to the Lord. The servant of the One Who Rules, understands that seeing the Lord Reign over everything is far better than seeing the Lord's immovable aspect in himself (the devotee). This is an example of the devotee's automatic realization of Achintya beda beda tattva .. simultaneously oneness and difference. That is, some quality of the Lord's personality is also seen within oneself. The difference is that this aspect not comparable to worshipping the Lord in the revealed form that reveals the "same" aspect. Perhaps a way to explain is that some aspect of the Lord's personality, as revealed within the consciousness of the devotee, though unimaginable is explainable, while "identical quality" in the Lord is incomprehensible and inexplicable. Or maybe better, the quality in the devotee is a like a jewel that is identical to a jewel in the Crown on the Head of the Lord. The Jewel in the Lord's Crown is in His Crown ON His Head, and capturing/transmitting all the rays of Light radiating from the Lord. The jewels are the same but different.

 

Sashtra teaches that in nama rupa, the Lord reveals His various qualities, and these then are sung by devotees in hymns to His (revealed) name. We also understand then that the revealed Names were/are the revealed Forms realized by the devotees (saddhus).

 

Now this tells us a great deal about the reasoning behind getting/giving initiated names. Prior to our own self realization, our initiation name is something like a promised identity. We receive this identity along with the hope, faith and prayers of our spiritual masters and in some cases our parents, that we can realize our true self and our true purpose (to know, to love and to serve God).

 

But our real name of initiation comes at this time:

 

As KRSNa says, that sarva-dharmAn parityajya mAm ekaM zaraNaM vraja [bg. 18.66]. Then He will reveal Himself, sevonmukhe hi jihvAdau svayam eva sphuraty adaH. He'll reveal yourself.

 

Even so, we know that God is unsearchable and unlimited and ever revealing. Therefore, we will not completely understand ourselves as He means for us to understand until such time as we are with Him eternally.

 

"Beloved, we are God's children now; what we shall be has not yet been revealed. We do know that when it is revealed we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is." - 1st John 3:2

[bija]

Thank you so much Her Servant for sharing your wonderful realizations. Your contributions are making visits to this forum such a delight.

 

Here is a special verse that in a deep sense relates to 'sarva-dharman -all varieties of religion; parityajya - abondoning; mam - unto; ekam - only; saranam - for surrender; vraja - to go.'

 

Sri Krsna Samhita, Chapter Five, verse two, by Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura. (Commentary on the essence of Srimad Bhagavatam)

 

"Being overwhelmed by the sound of Krishna's flute, the gopis of Vraja worshiped goddess Yogamaayaa with a desire to attain Krishna. The appearance of the truth of Vaikuntha in the pure consciousness of the living entities of this world is called Vraja. The word vraja means “to go.” It is impossible to elevate oneself in this material world by rejecting maayaa, therefore one should take shelter of favorable material items and try to search for the indescribable truth. For this reason living entities who have attained the mood of gopis take shelter of the great goddess Yogamaayaa to help them attain the Lord's pastimes in the spiritual world."

 

Srimad Bhagavad-gita (The Hidden Treasure of the Sweet Absolute) by His Divine Grace Srila Bhakti Raksaka Sridhara Deva Goswami.

Chapter 18 verse 66; Totally abandoning all kinds of religion, surrender exclusively unto me. I will liberate you from all kinds of sins, so do not despair.Here, the glory of the hidden purpose in the Bhagavad-gita is sung (gita-gudartha-gauravam): "Give up all engagements and come to Me. You won't have to repent, Arjuna, because I am everything to you, and you are everything to Me. This is the most hidden of all hidden truth. What more can I say? And you will find this in Vraj (Vrindavan)."

 

In sanskrit rhetoric (alankara) the ornamental suggestion by which the sound of a word echoes its sense, is known as dhavni. Here, such a hint is given. Mam ekam saranam "vraja": "You may go to Vraj, and there you will find the most hidden of all hidden truths (sarva-guhyatamam). The deepest secret of the inner loving heart has been fully revealed there: I am beyond all conceptions of religion, society, friends - everything. My position is above everything, and in the heart of the heart of everything. In the eternal land of Vraj, you will experience the whole conception of beauty. Dismiss all other engagements and prospects, and come to Me alone. Your inner hankering will be fulfilled beyond your expectations. You will find such dignity in Me, that you will be beyond reaction and repentance. This is the deepest meaning of the highest glory."

 

If one comes to this conception, everything else will be seen as sin (aham tvam sarva-papebhyo, moksayisyami). Everything conceived of as duty or purity in this material world will be seen as sinful, and all conceptions of religiosity will be reduced to the level of sin. In the absolute plain, everything and everyone belongs wholesale to Krsna, and the slightest deviation from this ideal is no better than committing sin. Mere self-forgetfullness leads to impersonalism and culminates in deep slumber. But self-forgetfullness (sarva-dharman parityajya) in Krsna's service (mam ekam saranam vraj) is positive and living. It is the full, absolute plain of life.

 

The hidden treasure attracts our hearts. We have been deprived of our hearts' deepest interest. Although we have a natural claim to it, it has been hidden from us (srutibhir vimrgyam). In an unparalled way, Sri Gita considers all these aspects and directs us to the correct meaning and conclusion of all Upanisads. From this point the Srimad Bhagavtam begins....end quote.

 

Dear Her Servant, this is pointing toward the highest ideal of a Gaudiya Vaisnava. It makes me think of Srila Prabhupada's great kindness in giving us Srimad Bhagavad-gita (preliminary study), Srimad Bhagvatam (advanced study), and Sri Caitanya-caritamrta (post graduate study). He said once, everything is contained within his books. Slowly, day by day, I am beginning to understand why he made this comment. These three books are hidden treasure, waiting for all to find. Sri Krsna Caitanya Mahaprabhu has given a very high conception to the world, for sure.

 

I hope this post may bring some small joy to your heart, dear godbrother.

[sanatan]

Quote--HerServant:

 

Now this tells us a great deal about the reasoning behind getting/giving initiated names. Prior to our own self realization, our initiation name is something like a promised identity. We receive this identity along with the hope, faith and prayers of our spiritual masters and in some cases our parents, that we can realize our true self and our true purpose (to know, to love and to serve God).

 

That's an insight I've neither had nor heard...very nice, thanks HS!

[brajeshwara das]

 

Quote--HerServant:

 

Now this tells us a great deal about the reasoning behind getting/giving initiated names. Prior to our own self realization, our initiation name is something like a promised identity. We receive this identity along with the hope, faith and prayers of our spiritual masters and in some cases our parents, that we can realize our true self and our true purpose (to know, to love and to serve God).

 

That's an insight I've neither had nor heard...very nice, thanks HS!

 

Yes, who is this Christian Vaisnava that has so mercifully entered into our association? Jaya Gurudeva!

 

HerServant, do you go to mass regularly and if so where? Do you know many Christians that share your insights? I very much appreciate your realizations and I wish my parents had your type of association. What a great mercy that would be. They are good and open minded for the most part but you are giving something I never found in their church.

[theist]

 

Yes, who is this Christian Vaisnava that has so mercifully entered into our association? Jaya Gurudeva!

 

I'm sure I know the name but I ain't talking.

[bija]

 

Yes, who is this Christian Vaisnava that has so mercifully entered into our association? Jaya Gurudeva! quote by brajeshwara dasa.

 

This spirit of openess (and dialogue), and unity in diversity is very appealing. I like it very much. Harmony!

[damodar1]

Christ is not mentioned in vedas. Also he ate meat, so he cannot be considered as vaishnava. So vaishnavas immediately reject claims that he is God and all such nonsense. This is not a criticsm against christ, but against foolish idiots who say everyone who dont accept christ will burn in hell bla bla.