Should Christians be friends with Hindus/Hare Krishnas/etc.?

[bija]

 

This is not a criticsm against christ, but against foolish idiots...quote by damodar1

 

It is better to offer respects to others...idiot is not a nice word.

[damodar1]

 

It is better to offer respects to others...idiot is not a nice word.

 

Point taken prabhu. But what is your response to my basic point. Doy ou agree or disagree and why?

[bija]

What is your basic point? Please clarify.

 

Please read through this thread in total before you come to any conclusions in your own mind, as to my stance on the said subject. You will find my mood is expressed in this thread clearly.

 

 

This is not a criticsm against christ, but against foolish idiots who say everyone who dont accept christ will burn in hell bla bla. quote by damodar

 

This is classic really. You have boxed all christians into this...you will burn in hell category...because of your pre-concieved ideas and past experiences with christians. Sure many are ignorant and like that. The thread starter in this topic is one of them. But what good is it, once stones are thrown at us...to just throw stones back? you see...just more stone throwing (nonsense).

 

Best to offer all respects, and attempt to raise the offender to higher station and realization. Would not this be more merciful? And if this does not work...leave their association...simple.

 

Please understand not all christians are fundie radicals.

 

And to answer your question more clearly...I do not consider myself a vaisnava (much to fallen). Jesus exhibited much more vaisnava qualities than myself.

 

If you consider yourself a vaisnava, and consider Jesus not one, that is your choice, and none of my concern.

[sanatan]

 

Christ is not mentioned in vedas. Also he ate meat, so he cannot be considered as vaishnava. So vaishnavas immediately reject claims that he is God and all such nonsense. This is not a criticsm against christ, but against foolish idiots who say everyone who dont accept christ will burn in hell bla bla.

 

lighten up.

[damodar1]

Sorry for any offenses. Accept my dandavat appologies.

[bija]

No offence taken Damodara Prabhu.

 

From my perceptions the world is in depserate need of glorious Vaisnavas.

 

Please allow me to share a story with you.

 

I live in a small country city in southern australia. Basically the majority of this cities population is white christian background. With a few different ethnic groups. Some sudanese christians, a couple of indian families, and a few middle eastern families. It is much different here than to the major cities in Australia, which are full of diversity.

 

A couple of weeks ago I was waiting for a bus in the centre of town (I do not own a car). Walking towards me was a very handsome young muslim couple. The were very beautiful, and gentle in disposition. The lady was dressed in the most beautiful flowing gown, with head scarfe.

 

I love beautiful cloth very much. I love all textiles. And I do not have the chance to see such exquisite clothing here in town that much.

 

So my vision remained a little to long on this lady. It is not polite to stare. She saw me looking (she was very gentle) and looked very uncomfortable due to my glance.

 

When they walked past me, the husband glared with anger. I knew what his diffulculties were. Things have gotten crazy in the world. I was so disappointed. Possibly in this town I am one of the broader citizens. Who loves culture, diversity, (good cuisine;)), religion and things like that. I was fortunate to travel when I was in my early twenties.

 

There is such a tension in the world, since the beginning of this millenium. War, terrorism, sectarianism, hatred, intolerance. And my encounter with this beautiful muslim couple, is just a symptom of how sick things are becoming in Kali yuga, so rapidly. This couple were religious for sure. Healthy looking, and nice people.

 

What are we going to do about this evolving sickness in the world?

 

Maybe if we are graced with a degree of enlightenment through Srila Prabhupada's books our calling and responsibilities are great.

 

Otherwise we all know the outcome.

 

This thread has evolved into a nice discussion between some very humble devotees. Some Gaudiya, some Christian, and some a bit of both. Maybe we can make small steps in places like this thread, and then tolerance and dialogue, and purity of heart, may begin to pervade our outer world, to a larger extent.

 

These are just some thoughts I have often. And why I am weary of loose talk of any religion.

 

Please accept my simple obiesances and apoligies Prabhu.

[HerServant]

 

Christ is not mentioned in vedas. Also he ate meat, so he cannot be considered as vaishnava. So vaishnavas immediately reject claims that he is God and all such nonsense. This is not a criticsm against christ, but against foolish idiots who say everyone who dont accept christ will burn in hell bla bla.

 

 

Christ is not mentioned in vedas.

 

"Actually, it doesn't matter -- Krsna or Christ -- the name is the same. The

main point is to chant the name of God." -- Srila Prabhupada (BTG -- Volume 12, No. 12. Dec. 1977)

 

 

Also he ate meat, so he cannot be considered as vaishnava.

 

Bob: I asked one this, and he claimed that Jesus was also eating meat in the Bible.

Srila Prabhupada: That's all right. He may eat anything. He is powerful. But he has ordered, "Thou shalt not kill. You must stop killing." He is powerful. He can eat the whole world. But you cannot compare to Jesus Christ. You cannot imitate Jesus Christ; you have to abide by his order. Then you are guided by Jesus Christ. That is actually obedience. That is explained in the Bhagavata. One who is isvara, who is empowered, can do anything, but we cannot imitate. We have to abide by his order: "What he says to me, that I will do." You cannot imitate. You say that Jesus Christ ate meat. Admitting that, you do not know in what condition he ate meat. He is himself eating meat, but he is advising others not to kill. Do you think that Jesus Christ was contradicting himself?

Bob: No.

Srila Prabhupada: He cannot do that. That is real faith in him-that he cannot do that. So why has he eaten meat? He knows, but he has asked me not to kill. I have to follow. That is the real system. You are not Jesus Christ; you cannot imitate him. He has sacrificed his life for God. Can you

do that? So why shall you imitate Jesus Christ? You are imitating Jesus Christ by eating meat. Why not imitate Jesus Christ and sacrifice your life for spreading God consciousness? What do you think? Yes, when you preach you can say what you think. They are so-called Christians-but what are they doing for God? Just consider the sun. The sun is absorbing urine. Can you drink urine? If you want to imitate the sun-"Oh, here is the sun absorbing urine. Let me drink urine"-can you? Jesus Christ is powerful; he can do everything. -- Discussions between Peace Corps Worker Bob Cohen and His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.

 

 

Christ is not mentioned in vedas.

So vaishnavas immediately reject claims that he is God and all such nonsense

 

One who is isvara, who is empowered, can do anything

Jesus Christ is powerful; he can do everything. -- Discussions between Peace Corps Worker Bob Cohen and His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.

 

isvara — the almighty God; SB 1.8.46

isvara — Supreme Lord; SB 2.1.38

isvara — the controller; SB 2.5.8

isvara — the master; SB 4.22.10

isvara — of the Supreme Personality of Godhead; SB 4.23.1-3

isvara — by the supreme controller; SB 5.26.17

isvara — of the Supreme Personality of Godhead; SB 7.7.30-31

isvara — O supreme controller; SB 7.9.22

isvara — the Supreme Personality of Godhead; SB 8.16.60

isvara — the Supreme Lord; SB 8.24.28

isvara — O Lord; SB 10.14.13

isvara — O supreme controller; SB 10.34.16

isvara — of the Supreme Lord; SB 10.54.12

isvara — the Supreme Lord; SB 10.70.36

isvara — O supreme controller; SB 10.85.8

isvara — O Lord; SB 10.85.16

isvara — O master; SB 10.85.29

isvara — O supreme master; SB 10.85.44

isvara — O Lord; SB 10.87.21

isvara — You who are the Lord; SB 11.12.16

isvara — O Supreme Lord; SB 11.20.4

isvara — O Supreme Lord; SB 11.27.5

isvara — of the Supreme Personality of Godhead; SB 12.4.37

isvara — of the great lords; SB 12.10.28

isvara — the Supreme Personality of Godhead; CC Adi 1.61

isvara — of the Supreme Lord; CC Adi 2.27

isvara — the Supreme Lord; CC Adi 2.40

isvara — Lord; CC Adi 2.106

isvara — the Personality of Godhead; CC Adi 3.74

isvara — the Lord; CC Adi 4.18

isvara — the Supreme Personality of Godhead; CC Adi 5.142

isvara — the Supreme Personality of Godhead; CC Adi 5.143

isvara — the Supreme Personality of Godhead; CC Adi 6.14-15

isvara — the Supreme Personality of Godhead; CC Adi 6.58-59

isvara — the supreme controller; CC Adi 7.7

isvara-tattva — the supreme controller; CC Adi 7.10

isvara — controller; CC Adi 7.10

isvara — the supreme controller; CC Adi 7.45

isvara — the Supreme Lord; CC Adi 7.110

isvara — the Lord's; CC Adi 7.120

isvara — the Supreme Lord; CC Adi 7.122

isvara — the Supreme Personality of Godhead; CC Adi 8.21

isvara — ?r? Caitanya Mah?prabhu; CC Adi 10.13

isvara — the Supreme Personality of Godhead; CC Adi 10.141

isvara — the Supreme Personality of Godhead; CC Adi 11.9

isvara — as the Supreme Personality of Godhead; CC Adi 12.34

isvara — most influential; CC Adi 13.57-58

isvara — the Supreme Personality of Godhead; CC Adi 15.24

isvara — the Lord; CC Adi 16.13

isvara — the Supreme Person; CC Adi 16.106

isvara — the Lord; CC Adi 17.13

isvara — God; CC Adi 17.212

isvara — God; CC Adi 17.215

isvara — the Lord; CC Adi 17.270

isvara — the Supreme Personality of Godhead; CC Adi 17.271

isvara — the Supreme Personality; CC Madhya 1.180

isvara — as the Supreme Lord; CC Madhya 1.277

isvara — the proprietor; CC Madhya 4.48

isvara — God; CC Madhya 5.86

isvara — the Lord; CC Madhya 5.113

isvara — of the Supreme Lord; CC Madhya 6.158

isvara — the Supreme Personality of Godhead; CC Madhya 6.170

isvara — the Supreme Personality of Godhead; CC Madhya 6.171

isvara — the Supreme Personality of Godhead; CC Madhya 6.271

isvara — the Supreme Personality of Godhead; CC Madhya 7.33

isvara — the Supreme Personality of Godhead; CC Madhya 7.144-145

isvara — of the Supreme Personality of Godhead; CC Madhya 8.43

isvara — the Supreme Personality of Godhead; CC Madhya 8.122

isvara — controller; CC Madhya 8.134

isvara — the Supreme Personality of Godhead; CC Madhya 9.58

isvara — the Supreme Person; CC Madhya 9.128

isvara — controller; CC Madhya 10.13

isvara — the Supreme Personality of Godhead; CC Madhya 10.15

isvara — the Supreme Personality of Godhead or isvara Pur?; CC Madhya 10.137

isvara — as the Supreme Personality of Godhead; CC Madhya 11.103

isvara — the Lord; CC Madhya 11.239

isvara — the Supreme Personality of Godhead; CC Madhya 12.26

isvara — the Supreme Personality of Godhead; CC Madhya 12.29

isvara — the Supreme Lord; CC Madhya 12.49

isvara — the Supreme Personality of Godhead; CC Madhya 13.22

isvara — the Lord; CC Madhya 13.23

isvara — the Lord; CC Madhya 13.114

isvara — the Supreme Personality of Godhead; CC Madhya 15.243

isvara — the Lord; CC Madhya 16.206

isvara — the masters; CC Madhya 16.217

isvara — the Supreme Personality of Godhead; CC Madhya 17.8

isvara — Supreme Personality of Godhead; CC Madhya 17.79

isvara — Supreme Personality of Godhead; CC Madhya 17.97

isvara — the Supreme Personality of Godhead; CC Madhya 17.182

isvara — the supreme controller; CC Madhya 18.115

isvara — the Personality of Godhead; CC Madhya 18.196

isvara — the Personality of Godhead; CC Madhya 18.201

isvara — the Supreme Lord; CC Madhya 20.305

isvara — the Supreme Personality of Godhead; CC Madhya 20.320

isvara — the incarnation of the Supreme Lord; CC Madhya 20.363

isvara — controller; CC Madhya 21.34

isvara — the Supreme Lord; CC Madhya 25.50

isvara — the Supreme Lord; CC Madhya 25.55

isvara — the Supreme Lord; CC Madhya 25.90

isvara — the Supreme Personality of Godhead; CC Madhya 25.95

isvara — the Supreme Lord; CC Antya 2.95

isvara — the Supreme Personality of Godhead; CC Antya 3.13

isvara — the Supreme Personality of Godhead; CC Antya 3.212

isvara — the Supreme Lord; CC Antya 4.74

isvara — the Supreme Personality of Godhead; CC Antya 4.96

isvara — the Supreme Personality of Godhead; CC Antya 4.188

isvara — the Supreme Personality of Godhead; CC Antya 7.127

isvara — of the Supreme Personality of Godhead; CC Antya 8.4

isvara — the Supreme Personality of Godhead; CC Antya 9.44

isvara — Supreme Personality of Godhead; CC Antya 11.29

isvara — the Supreme Personality of Godhead; CC Antya 16.48

[HerServant]

 

I'm sure I know the name but I ain't talking.

 

Dear friends,

 

Thank you for welcoming me here in this place. It is a great service to me to be in the company of beautiful, honest, insightful vaisnavas sharing our common goal, to get back home, back to Godhead.

 

Theist, .. If you know my name, I'd like to know it too. I realized it once but my poor sinful limited mind could not cling to it. I fell down again into the material pool and my memory fades in and out like a boat tossed in a storm. This association with you and the Vaisnavas is cleansing dust from my rememberence and so maybe someday I will hear Him call me by name and remember it! Again Theist please accept my humble obeisances .. Your association has been very very beneficial and enlivening for me.

 

I don't think we've met though.

 

Because I have seen that I am shocking some of the faithful, here on the forum , I am happy to tell a little something of myself. (thankfully I have taken no vow to prohibit me )

 

I first came in contact with Vaisnavism in the 70s while attending college in Columbus OH. I used to go to the temple on 13th street there for kirtan and the vegetarian feast.

 

About that time, the fundies were very active on campus, and I being a catholic was approached by them. They gave the normal inquiry "Are you saved"? When they asked "where do I fellowship"? I would name a Catholic church at which point the conversation would turn into a judgement fest . They would attack saying : ."Catholics are going to hell .. the Pope is the antichrist, the Church is the "whore of Babylon", etc."

 

Now it was one thing if I was going to hell, but these people were condemning my mother, my grandmother, etc. My mother goes to mass every day and has done so for around 50 years. She prays the rosary constantly. Her preaching to me was very simple .. if she thought I was straying, she would just say .. "A plant without water cannot grow".

 

She taught me my morning prayer which I say to this day:

"Good morning dear God, this day is for you, I ask you to bless all I think say and do. Infant Jesus bless me, in my work and play, help me love you Jesus more and more each day" The Child Jesus is very very dear.

 

Yes it is a simple childs prayer .. but perfect.

 

So, when the xtian fundamentalists attacked my mom's faith .. well then I decided I had better learn it .. because I KNEW the fundamentalists spirit was not of God.

 

At that time (circa 1977) I studied the writings of the Church fathers and "The Ascent of Mount Carmel" by St John of the Cross and considered entering the religious life as a monk. I studied the Bible, determined to find proof that the fundies were wrong. This took no time at all, and I have posted previously a quote from Romans that talks about God's law being a law written in the heart!

 

In 1980, at the recommendation of my priest, a devout and pious eastern rite catholic priest, I made my first silent retreat at a Trappist (Benedictine) monastery. The monks in that place take vows of silence .. no speaking .. minimal talking when absolutely necessary. They follow the rule of St. Benedict (4th century) and therefore their food is limited to bread and water. Vegetables are permitted if one is ill.

 

Their day begins at 2:25AM where they congregate in the chapel and sing from Psalms from the Psalter. This service is called "Vigils" .. it normally lasts for 1 hour. One of the monks may give a reflection on a spiritual topic. Thereafter, every 2 to 3 hours the chapel bells ring to summon the monks to prayer where they chant hymn in praise of the Lord. For those interested, the schedule is like this:

 

2:25 AM Vigils (breakfast -- if you want it, you better show up by 2AM or you'll be late for Vigils)

6:00 AM Lauds & Mass (meditation)

7:15 AM Terce (work)

10:30 AM workbreak

11:15 AM Sext (lunch)

1:05 PM None (work)

3:30 PM end of work

4:30 PM Vespers (supper)

6:35 PM Compline

7:00 PM Retire

 

The bells ring prior to every service, monks gather, and pray and chant in congregation. The hermits living on monastery property do not attend. The abbot or a priest visits them once or twice per week to administer the sacraments.

 

While at this place, I had a revelation about my own stone of pride, namely that, while a Catholic, I would not easily proclaim I was a Christian, because I did not want others to think I was "one of them (fundamentalist christian)". I thought, "I am a fool" I am persecuting Jesus because of intellectual pride. And there, midday as I climb a hillside in the country, His mellow rasa overtook me . .. yes the prodigal son took one step toward the Father .. and the Father ran to the son .. in that time period, my rememberence of Lord Jesus intensified. It is a very beautiful life, but I did not enter into the monastic life after all.

 

My spiritual studies of eastern philosophy increased in the early 90s .. in the early 90s I remembered "The Palace of Gold" and "Back to Godhead" magazines from my college days, and I asked "What happened to the Hare Krsnas?" Where have they gone? What about the Palace of Gold? I wonder if it is still there?" I had to find them. The internet was not yet "live" at that time so it was not an option to search on the network. I seemed to be so resolute on finding the Hare Krsnas. I have no explanation why.

 

Within days, I went to a Borders Bookstore and there on the shelf in the Eastern Religion section was a copy of Bhagavad Gita As It Is! This book was never on that shelf in the many times I visited that store before, and I have never seen a copy of BG As It Is at Borders since... anywhere! ( I have told that story to other devotees and they are certain Srila Prabhupada sent it to me. )

 

I drank and drank and drank nectar and more nectar from BG As It Is recognizing it (in my conception) as a catholic (universal) scripture, nearly perfectly in line with everything in my beliefs and what I knew about my own faith.

 

In the back of that book were many addresses and numbers of ISKCON temples. I dialed many to find that nearly all of them had non working numbers. but one worked! And from that one, I got contact info about the Columbus OH temple (which had moved from the old 13th street location when I was there) and New Vrndavan .. the Palace of Gold!

 

In addition started visiting temples while traveling for work. I went temples in Northern and southern CA, Boston and a few other places, desiring to chant the Holy Name and proclaim the glories of God.

 

Now there you have it. No more mystery, .. I am a poor fallen miserable sinner in need of the merciful association of you wonderful devotees. I am trying to serve the vaisnavas.

 

Peace and Love,

HerServant and Yours

 

ps - Theist .. feel free to send me a private message if you wish to correspond ..

[theist]

Her Servant,

 

From your history I do doubt that I know who you are. You do sound alot like another Catholic/Christian/ Vaisnava that I have read a little of. This person also is well versed and educated like yourself. I also have never met that person physically. That person's name is Bhakti Ananda. I felt sure you were this person as you are both so unique in such similar ways.

 

I really like your name Her Servant.

 

We do welcome you here at Audarya Fellowship and appreciate your positive spirit.

 

Jaya Yeshua! Jaya Krsna!

[sanatan]

 

Sorry for any offenses. Accept my dandavat appologies.

 

None taken here, prabhu. But your POV seems a little like that of the Christians you're criticizing.

[theist]

Lord Jesus Christ is a person. He is not a certain religion in time and space, nor is he any particular grouping of individuals who may have offended you in some way during your life. If you had understood this simple thing you would not have felt it necessary to post such comments and interupt the positive flow of the conversation.

 

You see Jesus Christ belongs to Krsna, the one true God. He is not a Jew anymore than our Srila Prabhupada is an Indian. Such personalities are from the transcendental side as shown bythe life they have lead while on earth.

 

Our answer to the so-called Christians mockery is not to mock Jesus Christ and thus ruin our own beginning devotional creepers but to glorify Jesus As He Is and thus be pleasing to Krsna.

[bija]

I was talking to my spiritual preceptor today (a Vaisnava sannyasi). Each time he mentioned Jesus' name he placed the prefix of Srila before it.

 

Excuse my ignorance, but what is the deeper meaning of the honorary prefix Srila?

[HerServant]

 

Her Servant,

 

From your history I do doubt that I know who you are. You do sound alot like another Catholic/Christian/ Vaisnava that I have read a little of. This person also is well versed and educated like yourself. I also have never met that person physically. That person's name is Bhakti Ananda. I felt sure you were this person as you are both so unique in such similar ways.

 

I really like your name Her Servant.

 

We do welcome you here at Audarya Fellowship and appreciate your positive spirit.

 

Jaya Yeshua! Jaya Krsna!

 

Theist prabhu,

 

I assume you meant the Bhakti Ananda I quoted in one of my posts whose articles I found on the internet. I am not that person and like you have never met him.

 

The sannyasi I mentioned previously in my posts (who I met personally at New Vrndavan) is an ISKCON sannyasi in India. I am very happy to be here among the "theists" Praise the Lord!

 

Hari Bol! Hare Krsna! Jaya Srila Prabhupada!

 

HerServant and yours

[mahak]

Haribol. I, for one, am quite impressed with Sri Bhakti Ananda's writings I have seen on the internet, quite scholarly.

 

As yall know, I have dabbled in Lord Jesus Christs teachings. (BTW, I always refer to Him as Lord Jesus Christ, not Jesus, not Christ, but the full appellation, recognizing Him among his peers such as Lord Brahma, King Prthu, and other jiva tattwa personalities who have descended from the spiritual strata as designated shaktiavesa avatars.) My background is that of a druid, free-thinking hipster who was raised a Catholic, favoring the Northern Irish against the Orangemen, a student of wonderful Irish priests and monseignors. I gave up all war in the sixties, and with that, much of the christian (note the lower case "c") ideology. Because hare krsna was dubbed the official mantra of the hipster by the haight ashbury gurus and icons who welcomed Srila Prabhupada into their midst, I became attracted. The first public event that I heard hare krsna was not a samkirtana party, but rather Alan Ginzburg with his harmonium, backed by the wild NYC band, the Fugs, who performed on the quad at the university where I had a job washing dishes.

 

So I actually had no ties to Lord Jesus Christ, I dabbled in Mehar Baba because of the Who, but his followers were not so intelligent, (not like Pete Townsend, whose lyrics still affect me). Because of what I call guru tattwa, devotees appeared in my life, and I got hooked, not necessarily attracted to Srila Prabhupada, but the natural attractiveness of his disciples, namely Visnu jnana, goursundara, siddhaswarupa, and others. They did not rule against me because I surfed and smoked massive amounts of herbal concoctions. They gradually delivered me to their guru Srila Prabhupada, which is exactly how this guru tattwa works. After taking initiation because of another wonderful friend, the late Sudama Swami, who dragged me kicking and screaming to Srila Prabhupada, I had the great fortune of associating with one of Srila Prabhupadas first disciples from SF, Sriman Jivananda das, a great musician and singer (who is the vocalist on the "Om Purnam" song on the george harrison radha krsna temple album).

Jivananda re-introduced me to the glories of Lord Jesus Christ. Like a paramahamsa, he gave me the essence of His teachings, unfiltered through the millinia of religiosity which has made wars, not devotees of the Supreme Father. As a good bhakta, I asked him his authority, and he informed me that Srila Prabhupada instructed him to continue his teachings of Lord Jesus Christ katha.

 

Every time I write about Lord Jesus Christ, I give Jivananda das credit and humble thanks for his taking the time to instruct me. I especially remember a christmas day celebration of Krsna devotees where he was the keynote speaker, and all of us were floored by his presentation.

 

Srila Prabhupada did NOT teach christianity, did NOT use the canonized bible as authority, he simply gave what he was given. He received the title "Bhaktivedanta" because what he gives is "Bhakti" which is derived from the "Vedanta". He teaches us to never teach what we dont know, and he follows this precisely. However, he knows his disciples, can see that they may know, and thus they may teach what they know, combined with the enhancement he gives them. He even clearly says this, that he doesnt require his disciples to reject their religion, he comes to enhance and give full meaning to their religion. He has done this, he has given the Christian (note upper case "C") an enhanced religion infused with pure bhakti yoga.

 

The hare krsna movement is declared from the very beginning as non-sectarian. That some may be so misinformed that they have made it full of party spirit blindness is unfortunate. We are supposed to be able to approach anyone and enhance their religion with understanding of devotional service. To call them demons or fools (or even karmis, for that matter) just takes everything away and makes enemies. No one ever derided my paganism, my multiple goddess worship, my rastafarian tendency toward herbalism. They, instead, showed me the purity of pantheism (love of nature), the glories of the goddesses in their loving service to the Supreme Lord, and the pure religion of the Kebra Nagast (the source of rastafarianism) which descends from an unbroken chain of kings from Solomon thru Ras Tafari (a devout christian BTW, aka Heile salassei).

 

All real religion and their entire philosophy is contained in one pure utterance of the Name of the Supreme Lord. In the Name of the Father, His Son gives us the Holy Spiritual Life, Amen, pau hana, the end, so be it.

 

Lets go surfin. Hare Krsna, ys in cooperation, mahaksadasa

 

PS what a nice thread this has turned out to be.

[bija]

copied from my internet blog

 

***Real Unity (transcendental loving devotion)***

 

 

When we are on the material platform, there are different types of religions.... ....differences may be considered on the material platform, but when we come to the platform of transcendental devotional service, there are no such considerations. The transcendental service of the Lord is above these principles. The world is anxious for religious unity, and that common platform can be achieved in transcendental devotional service. When one becomes a transcendental devotee of God, he rises above all these limited (material) considerations. (adapted from the writings of A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami, CC Madhya 25:121)

http://www.vedabase.net/cc/madhya/25/121/en

 

Saying this, the transcendental devotees objective in discussing spirituality with others, is never with aims of converting them. In the transcendental science the material designations are of a secondary nature. If there is any objective at all, it is only to inspire the listener to deepen their chosen faith. And hopefully oneday to rise above material designations to transcendental realization.

 

By transcending material designations one is not required to leave one’s chosen religion. But by rising above these material designations people of all faith may perceive their common unity and live together in love and harmony. With devotion ever present in their hearts.

 

Surely such transcendental realization (devotional service) is the panacea for a divided world. Where so much bigotry, hatred, and war has been enacted in the name of God. Where religious fanaticism has tainted religion and divided many.

 

According to Jesus Christ, the greatest goal for all humanity is to love God with all your heart; so I perceive that flowing from this, we are to love all souls (the parts and parcels of God) by giving them the Holy Names. This will be the greatest wealth. Devotional service culminating in love of God is the eternal religion of all mankind.

 

y.s. bija

[bija]

 

I was talking to my spiritual preceptor today (a Vaisnava sannyasi). Each time he mentioned Jesus' name he placed the prefix of Srila before it.

 

Excuse my ignorance, but what is the deeper meaning of the honorary prefix Srila? quote by bija

[HerServant]

 

Haribol. I, for one, am quite impressed with Sri Bhakti Ananda's writings I have seen on the internet, quite scholarly.

The hare krsna movement is declared from the very beginning as non-sectarian. That some may be so misinformed that they have made it full of party spirit blindness is unfortunate. We are supposed to be able to approach anyone and enhance their religion with understanding of devotional service. To call them demons or fools (or even karmis, for that matter) just takes everything away and makes enemies. No one ever derided my paganism, my multiple goddess worship, my rastafarian tendency toward herbalism. They, instead, showed me the purity of pantheism (love of nature), the glories of the goddesses in their loving service to the Supreme Lord, and the pure religion of the Kebra Nagast (the source of rastafarianism) which descends from an unbroken chain of kings from Solomon thru Ras Tafari (a devout christian BTW, aka Heile salassei).

 

All real religion and their entire philosophy is contained in one pure utterance of the Name of the Supreme Lord. In the Name of the Father, His Son gives us the Holy Spiritual Life, Amen, pau hana, the end, so be it.

 

Lets go surfin. Hare Krsna, ys in cooperation, mahaksadasa

 

PS what a nice thread this has turned out to be.

 

definitely down with the surfin' ..

 

You da man! Amen Om

[HerServant]

 

Yes, who is this Christian Vaisnava that has so mercifully entered into our association? Jaya Gurudeva!

 

HerServant, do you go to mass regularly and if so where? Do you know many Christians that share your insights? I very much appreciate your realizations and I wish my parents had your type of association. What a great mercy that would be. They are good and open minded for the most part but you are giving something I never found in their church.

 

Thank you for your kindness and dear association. Yes. I go to mass every Sunday, usually here in OH. When I travel, I often attend morning weekday mass (my favorite time to go) in the city I am visiting. The weekday morning masses are best as only the very devoted are in attendance.

 

I think your profile says you are in CA. When I am in CA I sometimes go to this place:

 

http://www.contemplation.com/Hermitage/home.html

 

I walk up and down the mountain side praying the rosary there. Very transcendental. These monks are very open and non sectarian. You would be welcome there, chant your rounds. If you are an initiatied catholic, you can take maha prasadam Jesus in the Eucharist.

 

There is a Carmelite cloistered convent in Monterey .. I don't know the mass schedule there. There is another place of interest called St. Claire's Retreat off of rt 17 between Santa Cruz and Los Gatos. I used to stop there sometimes when I visited the Seva Ashram in Santa Cruz.

 

Regarding your question about other Christians that share my insights, yes ..I've just met a bunch of them here on this forum

 

HerServant and yours

[mahak]

Haribol, in glorification of Mary of Axum, I post this excerpt from Kebra Nagast, the story of disciplic succession of the kings of abyssinia. This translation is rather old, from 1926.......

 

I deleted this excerpt, because the text was rather lame. Kebra Nagast is a full nectarian version of the succession of ethiopian kings, and my version is not available on the internet. Perhaps it is better to not post the only on-line version which is archaic, full of nonsense "smiting and wickedness", which, quite frankly, I find rather un-attractive. This is the problem with the king james bibles and other bibles, they make god out to be a vengeful jerk, nothing but a tribal deity wanting to crush the competition. It is no wonder that many who claim christ as their savior are so rude to all others.

 

Sorry if offense was taken or folks got the wrong message from the text I quoted. The reason I used this is that the position of Mary is confirmed, but she needs no confirmation to those who accept her as she is. The only good sentence contained in the post I made was the part where she is seven times purer than the sun, the rest just showed the line from where she came from. Hope my rastafarian friends who read here dont take offense at my using a brits interpretation of what they hold sacred.

 

As an alternative to those interested in the line of the Great devotee, the world ruler King Solomon (the last king of the entire planet), I got quite an appreciating by reading Sir Graham Hancocks "the sign and the seal", the story of the true resting place of the ark of the covenant. Mr Hancock is a noble person as well, quite a researcher, who has written many great books to capture ones imagination.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[Guest guest]

ummm... coming back to this thread Should Christians be friends with Hindus/HareKrishnas/etc... I keep wondering.. should a humna be friends with a fellow human being, irrespective of his faith and form of God he prefers to worship... is there more that can actually bring us together in this short life than the differences we so caringly meditate upon, to keep us apart as groups , sampradayas, peoples, nations, etc.?

hmmm... I think we can still find more reasons to be friends for the difference in our philosophical line of thinking. But even if strictly speaking from a religious point of view too, I think I as a Hare Krishna or a Christian or a Hindu, still should understand that the other person is also child of one God and breathes the same air as me, and is sustained by the mercy of the same Lord, no matter how many different names he is called upon by us.

[Guest guest]

Dear Bija,

 

Jai Shri Krishna! PAMHO!

 

Were you the one who put on the HariHaraya deity picture from navadvipa in one of the previous posts and Shivashtakam composed by Shri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu??

Thanks.

 

Regards,

 

YK.

[sanatan]

Re: New Camaldoli Hermitage

 

Very cool place, HS.

 

Bookmarked for a stop on future CA trip.

[bija]

 

Dear Bija,

 

Jai Shri Krishna! PAMHO!

 

Were you the one who put on the HariHaraya deity picture from navadvipa in one of the previous posts and Shivashtakam composed by Shri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu??

Thanks.

 

Regards,

 

YK.

Yes YK that was me.

 

I was in the process I replying here to you ,and I accidentally wiped my whole post (it was a long one). I had some things I wanted to share with you, but unfortunately it is all gone now, and I will not be able to repeat what I just wrote as clearly.

 

I had written some nice realizations to share with you, spontaneously from my heart. And because it was written this way I cannot re-write it again to the same depth. Oh well...not meant to be. I am disappointed.

 

take care...bija (Nava).

[HerServant]

 

ummm... coming back to this thread Should Christians be friends with Hindus/HareKrishnas/etc... I keep wondering.. should a humna be friends with a fellow human being, irrespective of his faith and form of God he prefers to worship... is there more that can actually bring us together in this short life than the differences we so caringly meditate upon, to keep us apart as groups , sampradayas, peoples, nations, etc.?

hmmm... I think we can still find more reasons to be friends for the difference in our philosophical line of thinking. But even if strictly speaking from a religious point of view too, I think I as a Hare Krishna or a Christian or a Hindu, still should understand that the other person is also child of one God and breathes the same air as me, and is sustained by the mercy of the same Lord, no matter how many different names he is called upon by us.

 

I've yet to dive into the mysteries of Krsna's pastimes with the gopis, but I think Srila Rupa Goswami said that in order to enter into the most intimate relationship with Radha Krsna, one must be the smallest most tender child. (Pardon my offenses if I am paraphrasing incorrectly or if this was said by another)

 

Y.k maharaja makes a beautiful point that for me is very profound and worthy of contemplation. As child we can lose sectarian thinking all together and enter easily into relationship without the interference of the mind. As children of God we can relate to one another simply and purely.

 

Krsna is unlimited, and HE is dealing with each of us individually, so as children we are free to share our experiences of Him, our stories about Him with one another. As children we listen to our friends stories of Him and marvel of His deeds and activities.

 

As children of God, lovers of God, we are carefree about who joins our play ... we can readily welcome any friend to join our play .. and this is what has made our association on this forum positive and rich ..

 

You who have invited me to play, have been perfectly happy to share your gifts with me, and therefore, like a child I am joyful.

 

I know you are my friends because you have come to my defense when you suspect I may have been wounded by others who have thrown stones at Jesus.

 

Yes .. I have entered your association but you have so mercifully entered mine.

 

So I ask our Eternal Father, Krsna's blessing that I may more faithfully follow His Son. I take shelter under the mantle of Mary, the Theotokos (the God Bearer), known by so many Perfect Names, She is known to the Vaisnavas as, Radha, Durga and so many others.

 

I consecrate my activities on this forum to Her. May She bless each and everyone of you with Her presence. Kindly accept Her graces!

 

HerServant and yours!

 

[bija]

 

But even if strictly speaking from a religious point of view too, I think I as a Hare Krishna or a Christian or a Hindu, still should understand that the other person is also child of one God and breathes the same air as me, and is sustained by the mercy of the same Lord, no matter how many different names he is called upon by us. Quote by yK

Yes I think so. In a deeper sense this very breathe that sustains us is the breathe of God (Spirit). The depth of diversity expressed in this material sphere is beyond discovery. From the insects to the animals, to plant life and way up to the diverse stars and planets. Not to mention the diversity in the human experience, with individual sentiments, feelings, moods and expressions. So if this material sphere is considered a reflection of the spiritual environment, how much more so must the unlimited variety be there. The sages have pondered on this very thing for sure. In some sense the Absolute diversity and unity is indescribable by words. But we know in our heart of hearts, that in that transcendental environment everything is working in complete ‘harmony’. Simultaneous Oneness and Difference. A unity in diversity. Because of that intrinsic nature, we also desire that harmony in this material realm. But because of the nature of the material atmosphere some difficulty is found in achieving this.

Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura in his Sri Krsna Samhita (a commentary on the essence of Srimad Bhagavatam) states that realization of the Absolute cannot be attained by argumentation, but only by deep absorption/contemplation can this truth be revealed to the heart. If we peel back every layer, both external and internal, by good fortune we may come to the very sweet center. Which will be saturated in Divine Love.

It is my conviction that God is unlimited. That spiritual life and existence is a positive and progressive immortality. So surely this indescribable truth ( the words 'indescribable truth' are used in Sri Krsna Samhita) cannot not be boxed by our argumentative mundane conceptions. The very nature of that eternal existence, is that it is ever expanding, ever increasing and ever new (nava) Divine Love. So the highest conception must be where that love is at its highest intensity. So our small minds and argumentative propensity, try to limit what is actually unlimited. How can we say what is highest, when the nature of the Absolute is limitless, and cannot be boxed in? The very nature of Divine Love and it’s intensity is limitless, eternal, ever expanding and ever-new (nava). This dynamic between soul and Soul is inconceivable and incomprehensible.

This is where we get ourselves into trouble. We try to describe this inconceivable truth by the process of argumentation. So therefore we enter disharmony because of limited relativities and conceptions. But saying this, if this Absolute is the very core of our existence it must be able to be realized to increasing degress, and that process is Samadhi (absorption) - self realization.

In my personal spirituality I find that I can accommodate different conceptions because of the nature of the unlimitedness of the Absolute. And the ever-new dynamic is, spiritual existence (increasing Divine Love) between soul and Soul. That infact this Vaikuntha realm accommodates all possibility of the unlimited. For it is unlimited. What is the depth of Divine Love? Can love between soul and Soul be confined? Surely not. It is without boundary. Gaudiya Vaisnava's take shelter of the Hladhini Shakti (Sri Radha). The depths of her love for Krsna is limitless, it has no bounds. It is ever-new and increasing. Because Krsna's beauty is unlimited.

The sage who penned Srimad Bhagavatam, through Samadhi has described for us, this sweet core. He has penned the Krsna conception. Which when understood in a deeper sense gives the possibility for unlimited increasing sweetness to exist. I stress here that the very nature of Divine Love between soul and Soul is unlimited. The Krsna conception gives scope to this. Our small minds cannot conceive of something without boundaries, but infact Divine Love is of this very nature.

So yK I have talked with you enough times online now to know I can open up a little about my personal spirituality. And that in this spirituality I have come to understand, through conviction, that the very nature of God is unlimited. So in this Vaikuntha realm all conception and scope is possible. It sits well with me, because even on a mundane platform, where difficulty in dialogue and harmony often manifests, still harmony and unity of diversity may be accommodated. With higher realization and understanding. Because all harmony exists in the spiritual realm (Vaikuntha), we also crave harmony in this material sphere we have found ourselves in. Harmony is deep within us…it is our intrinsic nature. At the core of our very being. And I believe is possible to be attained, through deeper realization and Samadhi.

So thank you for allowing me to share some of my personal spiritual life with you. I desire to understand the depth of Sri Krsna Caitanya Mahaprabhu (Gauranga). Therefore I have taken shelter of a Guru who is deeply attached to Lord Caitanya. I believe at the very core of Lord Caitanya is the existence of Srimad Bhagavatam. I feel drawn to this conception very much so. And with this conception I am grateful that I can accommodate all the variegated existence found within Vaikuntha. As I stressed earlier, I feel the very nature of God is unlimited.

Please allow me to share a little from the Sri Krsna Samhita (by Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura). It is one of my favourite scriptures and speaks of the very heart of Sri Sri Guru and Gauranga. I feel that at some point we need to leave behind the platform of argumentation and enter deeper and deeper levels of Samadhi. There we will find the very core of our being, where true harmony exists. Where all things can be accommodated. This Sri Krsna Samhita is the heart of Sri Caitanya’s profound existence. It can be found online here:

 

www.nitaiveda.com

 

<st1:place w:st="on">Om</st1:place> Shanti…bija (Nava Gauranga dasa)

All glories to Lords Nityananda-Gauranga!

Sri Krsna Samhita, (Essence of Srimad Bhagavatam) by Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura Chapter Five, verse two.

"Being overwhelmed by the sound of Krishna's flute, the gopis of Vraja worshiped goddess Yogamaayaa with a desire to attain <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place>. The appearance of the truth of Vaikuntha in the pure consciousness of the living entities of this world is called Vraja. The word vraja means “to go.” It is impossible to elevate oneself in this material world by rejecting maayaa, therefore one should take shelter of favorable material items and try to search for the indescribable truth. For this reason living entities who have attained the mood of gopis take shelter of the great goddess Yogamaayaa to help them attain the Lord's pastimes in the spiritual world."